---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/13/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 (Dave G.) 2. 04:49 AM - 912UL starting problems. (davyken@comcast.net) 3. 05:41 AM - Re: Flap Creep (crazyivan) 4. 07:55 AM - Re: Flap Creep (Guy Buchanan) 5. 07:55 AM - Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 (Guy Buchanan) 6. 08:19 AM - Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 (akflyer) 7. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Flap Creep (Lynn Matteson) 8. 08:55 AM - Re: GPS (jeff puls) 9. 10:52 AM - Re: GPS (wingnut) 10. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Flap Creep (RAY Gignac) 11. 05:40 PM - Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 (Marwynne Kuhn) 12. 07:15 PM - Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 (ron schick) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:00 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 There is a company making replacement carb boots who claim to have a much superior product. The link is here. http://www.geocities.com/chinooktips/ROTAX.html Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Marwynne Kuhn To: Kitfox-List@Matronics. Com Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 11:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 I had a off field landing with my Kitfox IV-1050 about two weeks ago. I just pulled the covering off and found the front spars on both wings damaged. I am looking for some wings for my bird. I have found a set of wings from a Model III Kitfox. I don't know if they will work! If anyone knows of a set of wing kit that was purchased that was not completed or partial complete for sale please let me know. Just so incite in to my off field landing. The cause of the problem was the rubber boot that holds the carburetor . This boot split while I was taking off. I was at 500 feet and didn't have room to turn around and land at the airport. I think if Rotax would put cloth or Kevlar mesh in the rubber boot this off field landing would have been prevented. The rubber split and I lost all vacuum and the engine quit. The boots had been inspected at the last annual . There was evidence of a problem at that time. If any of you know of some wings for sale , please email me. Marwynne Kuhn Marwynne@verizon.net Thanks ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:06 AM PST US From: davyken@comcast.net Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL starting problems. Hi Paul, I've just spent a lot of time and money working through exactly that issue. I felt I was almost done with my Kitfox and then spent five years traveling full time for work. My 912 sat and waited for me. When I had time to work on the plane again I came to the point where I was ready to start it up and had exactly the same condition you have. I proved I had spark and the plugs were wet. The engine would crank but wouldn't fire up. I got several pieces of good advice from several sources. The Sport Pilot articles by Phil Lockwood on the perfect 912 installation are available on line at the EAA web site. Look for the "Power On" column. He had some good advice making sure I had the right mixture. "You need three things to get your engine to start. It must crank at a minimum speed of 240 rpm. If all is not well with the battery, electrical connections, and wire sizing, you will not achieve this speed. A fully charged battery will have 12.6 volts or more. You must make sure your ignition circuits are wired properly. Remember, the 912 ignition is a failsafe unit that is self-powered. You must ground out the two kill switch wires to shut it off, but if they are wired backward, then it will be shut off while you are trying to start. You must have the correct amount of fuel. If the air temperature is below 50 degrees Fahrenheit, your choke will need to be functioning properly, and you must use the correct procedure, which includes having the throttle at idle until the engine starts. If you crack the throttle as you are trying to start, the enrichening circuit (choke) will not work well. The throttle butterfly in each carburetor must be almost all the way closed to draw enou gh ext ra fuel for a cold start. The idle and main jets, in both carburetors, must be clean and clear of obstructions." I also received some good advice from the list about the choke pull. The springs on the 912 choke hold a lot of tension and the knob provided by Skystar is somewhat on the small side. I drilled a hole through the knob and put a key ring through it to make sure I was getting the full travel on the cable pull. The final thing that made a big difference was rebuilding the carbs. I had a mechanic with a good reputation for Rotax engines disassemble them. He found that some of the rubber had dry rotted from sitting so long. He also sent me replacement mounting flanges and o-rings for the manifold. Once I reassembled everything, I got a good start. My 912 runs great now and I'm getting the plane ready for it's inspection. Hope this helps, Ken Davy N1701S Classic IV / 912 Time: 08:38:41 AM PST US From: "Paul" Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL starting problems. Looking for input on 912 that I can't get started. It was off the airframe for a year geting a new mount. The ignition system is what I could use the input on. I have wet plugs. I have checked the ignition switiches, ohmed the triger coils (3.4). I can't find other checks on the boxes. It has not poped once. It's turning over fast and I did jump it also. Paul N102DG
Hi Paul,
 
I've just spent a lot of time and money working through exactly that issue.  I felt I was almost done with my Kitfox and then spent five years traveling full time for work.  My 912 sat and waited for me.  When I had time to work on the plane again I came to the point where I was ready to start it up and had exactly the same condition you have.  I proved I had spark and the plugs were wet.  The engine would crank but wouldn't fire up.
 
I got several pieces of good advice from several sources.
 
The Sport Pilot articles by Phil Lockwood on the perfect 912 installation are available on line at the EAA web site.  Look for the "Power On" column.  He had some good advice making sure I had the right mixture.
 
"You need three things to get your engine to start. It must crank at a minimum speed of 240 rpm. If all is not well with the battery, electrical connections, and wire sizing, you will not achieve this speed. A fully charged battery will have 12.6 volts or more. You must make sure your ignition circuits are wired properly. Remember, the 912 ignition is a failsafe unit that is self-powered. You must ground out the two kill switch wires to shut it off, but if they are wired backward, then it will be shut off while you are trying to start. You must have the correct amount of fuel. If the air temperature is below 50 degrees Fahrenheit, your choke will need to be functioning properly, and you must use the correct procedure, which includes having the throttle at idle until the engine starts. If you crack the throttle as you are trying to start, the enrichenin g circ uit (choke) will not work well. The throttle butterfly in each carburetor must be almost all the way closed to draw enough extra fuel for a cold start. The idle and main jets, in both carburetors, must be clean and clear of obstructions."
 
I also received some good advice from the list about the choke pull.  The springs on the 912 choke hold a lot of tension and the knob provided by Skystar is somewhat on the small side.  I drilled a hole through the knob and put a key ring through it to make sure I was getting the full travel on the cable pull. 
 
The final thing that made a big difference was rebuilding the carbs.  I had a mechanic with a good reputation for Rotax engines disassemble them.  He found that some of the rubber had dry rotted from sitting so long.  He also sent me replacement mounting flanges and o-rings for the manifold.
 
Once I reassembled everything, I got a good start.  My 912 runs great now and I'm getting the plane ready for it's inspection.
 
Hope this helps,
Ken Davy
N1701S Classic IV / 912

 

 
Time: 08:38:41 AM PST US
From: "Paul" <ppeerenbo@charter.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 912UL starting problems.


Looking for input on 912 that I can't get started. It was off the airframe
for a year geting a new mount. The ignition system is what I could use the
input on. I have wet plugs. I have checked the ignition switiches, ohmed the
triger coils (3.4). I can't find other checks on the boxes. It has not poped
once. It's turning over fast and I did jump it also.


Paul N102DG
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:48 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flap Creep From: "crazyivan" Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig. I'll tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and check the alignment. Thanks. Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle back down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It makes me nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at 5 degrees. I think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero because I can feel no air load on the flap handle at this position. Lynn's suggestion to check the flap position with the jig should confirm this. -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112562#112562 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:19 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flap Creep At 05:03 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote: >On my Model IV Speedster, when I put my flaps at zero and work the >ailreons back and forth they will creep to the first notch (5 >deg). When flying I'll manually push the flap handle to zero and I >can feel the aerodynamic forces try to push them to the first notch. On the IV and later the aileron system is designed with a lot of differential, which in practical terms means the ailerons move up more than down. This was done to reduce adverse yaw. What it means to your flap system is that anytime you work the ailerons there is more force on the up moving aileron than down so that your flap system will tend to creep down. I would just tighten the friction system or replace it with a true "notch" system; a fairly simply modification. On a related topic I've done a lot of work trying to quantify speed changes over -5 to +5 degrees flaps and have been unable to do so. I know there is some difference, but on my plane, (IV-1200,) it is small. (And I do have a pitch trim tab on the elevator.) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:23 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 At 07:30 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote: >I had a off field landing with my Kitfox IV-1050 about two weeks >ago. I just pulled the covering off and found the front spars on >both wings damaged. I am looking for some wings for my bird. I >have found a set of wings from a Model III Kitfox. I don't know if >they will work! Marwynne, Sorry to hear about your adventure. I'm glad you came through it. It's a good reminder to me to replace the boots at annual. (Annual is getting more and more expensive.) Several on the list have replaced spars on wings so if your ribs aren't damaged you might try that. John McBean at Kitfox LLC has replacement spars. The III and IV wings are quite different, though I can't say whether a III wing would actually fit on a IV. (The IV has a nearly flat-bottomed airfoil, whereas the III is highly cambered.) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 From: "akflyer" http://www.southernaviationllc.com/AvidKitfoxWingKits.html I will probably save you quite a bit of money if you call these guys. I think the 14 gallon wing tanks are around 220.00..... Close to half price of other suppliers. -------- Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112594#112594 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:48 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flap Creep It's right under the front of the seat, slightly right of aircraft center. I looks like a large washer that's been welded to the structure, has a 1/4" bolt with castle nut and cotter pin. Lynn On May 13, 2007, at 8:40 AM, crazyivan wrote: > > Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig. > I'll tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and > check the alignment. Thanks. > > Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle > back down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It > makes me nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at > 5 degrees. I think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero > because I can feel no air load on the flap handle at this > position. Lynn's suggestion to check the flap position with the > jig should confirm this. > > -------- > Dave > Speedster 912 UL > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112562#112562 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:24 AM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GPS You may want to check with Garmin. They may not support that unit anymore. I found that out the other day with my 190. Jeff Classic IV Columbus, Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "fox5flyer" Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GPS > > The Garmin 196 is a good bang for your buck. If you buy from someone who > is > upgrading you can get a pretty good deal. > Deke Morisse > N148DM > S5/Soob/CAP > NE Michigan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "wannafly" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 8:55 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: GPS > > >> >> >> I am looking at getting a GPS for my Fox. What are your recomendations? I > have been looking at the AirMap 2000C. Does anyone have one and what do > you > think. >> You can contact me off line if you like at wannaflyfox4@hotmail.com >> >> Mic Thiessen >> Fox IV Speedster >> C-FOXX >> Subaru EA81 >> Canada >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=111961#111961 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:52 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GPS From: "wingnut" Garmin still lists the 196 on their web site. I'd say that this is a good sign. I know a couple of pilots that still prefer the 196's monochrome display over the fancier X96 cousins for readability in sunlight. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112615#112615 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:40 PM PST US From: "RAY Gignac" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flap Creep This may or may not help! John King designed a flap attach system that will hold your settings in place, and will not allow them to creep. The old system used leather as a way to provide friction, but that wears out no matter how tight you make it! If you want to talk to me about this email, call me at 301-520-3171 anytime. Ray >From: Lynn Matteson >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flap Creep >Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:34:52 -0400 > > >It's right under the front of the seat, slightly right of aircraft center. >I looks like a large washer that's been welded to the structure, has a >1/4" bolt with castle nut and cotter pin. > >Lynn > >On May 13, 2007, at 8:40 AM, crazyivan wrote: > >> >>Lynn - I didn't build it but the builder did provide the wood jig. I'll >>tighten up on the friction nut a little (after I find it) and check the >>alignment. Thanks. >> >>Wingnut - I have a little pitch trim change when I push the handle back >>down. My problem is that my handle creeps a few inches. It makes me >>nervous when I am cruising at 115mph and see the flaps at 5 degrees. I >>think, though, that the flaps are actually at zero because I can feel no >>air load on the flap handle at this position. Lynn's suggestion to check >>the flap position with the jig should confirm this. >> >>-------- >>Dave >>Speedster 912 UL >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=112562#112562 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:12 PM PST US From: "Marwynne Kuhn" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 Thanks for your reply Guy. I am looking at all the alternatives now. I took one wing apart today. I will need the front spar and 3 ribs and a couple of braces. See ya later Marwynne ----- Original Message ----- From: Guy Buchanan To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 At 07:30 PM 5/12/2007, you wrote: I had a off field landing with my Kitfox IV-1050 about two weeks ago. I just pulled the covering off and found the front spars on both wings damaged. I am looking for some wings for my bird. I have found a set of wings from a Model III Kitfox. I don't know if they will work! Marwynne, Sorry to hear about your adventure. I'm glad you came through it. It's a good reminder to me to replace the boots at annual. (Annual is getting more and more expensive.) Several on the list have replaced spars on wings so if your ribs aren't damaged you might try that. John McBean at Kitfox LLC has replacement spars. The III and IV wings are quite different, though I can't say whether a III wing would actually fit on a IV. (The IV has a nearly flat-bottomed airfoil, whereas the III is highly cambered.) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:44 PM PST US From: "ron schick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 It seems as though one of our members had a set listed on Barnstormers.com a while ago. Ron NB Ore KF IV >From: "Marwynne Kuhn" >To: "Kitfox-List@Matronics. Com" >Subject: Kitfox-List: Need wings for a Kitfox IV -1050 >Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 21:30:53 -0500 > >I had a off field landing with my Kitfox IV-1050 about two weeks ago. I >just pulled the covering off and found the front spars on both wings >damaged. I am looking for some wings for my bird. I have found a set of >wings from a Model III Kitfox. I don't know if they will work! > >If anyone knows of a set of wing kit that was purchased that was not >completed or partial complete for sale please let me know. > >Just so incite in to my off field landing. The cause of the problem was >the rubber boot that holds the carburetor . This boot split while I was >taking off. I was at 500 feet and didn't have room to turn around and >land at the airport. > >I think if Rotax would put cloth or Kevlar mesh in the rubber boot >this off field landing would have been prevented. The rubber split and I >lost all vacuum and the engine quit. The boots had been inspected at >the last annual . There was evidence of a problem at that time. > > >If any of you know of some wings for sale , please email me. > > >Marwynne Kuhn > >Marwynne@verizon.net > >Thanks > _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? 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