Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Norway. WAS: Rotax 582 failure (semi off-topic) (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:49 AM - Re: N998DS (Don Smythe) (fox5flyer)
3. 12:41 PM - Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (darinh)
4. 01:02 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Don Smythe)
5. 01:10 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Andy Fultz)
6. 01:22 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (john oakley)
7. 01:23 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (john oakley)
8. 02:51 PM - Delaminating aileron traling edge (wingnut)
9. 03:18 PM - Just a reminder where to look for...... (Flyersteve)
10. 03:19 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Lowell Fitt)
11. 03:33 PM - Re: Maximum Takeoff Weight is not Gross weight..... period. (Flyersteve)
12. 03:56 PM - Re: Delaminating aileron traling edge (john oakley)
13. 04:14 PM - Re: Delaminating aileron traling edge (Lowell Fitt)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Dan Billingsley)
15. 04:48 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Noel Loveys)
16. 04:53 PM - Re: Delaminating aileron trailing edge (kitfoxmike)
17. 04:56 PM - Re: Delaminating aileron traling edge (Don Smythe)
18. 05:24 PM - Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (john oakley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Norway. WAS: Rotax 582 failure (semi off-topic) |
> From: Herbert R Gottelt [gofalke@sbcglobal.net]
> Michel, I'll be in Bergen, Norway, with my wife, about the 16th of June, for
a coastal
> cruise northbound along and into some of the fiords. Just out of curiosity where
is
> your home town in relation to Bergen?
On the other side, Herb, near Oslo. Eight hours away by car, three by Kitfox! :-)
Cheers,
Michel
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: N998DS (Don Smythe) |
Don, I'm not sure whether it's appropriate to offer my congrats or
condolences about 998DS. You've been with us a long time and hopefully
you'll stay with us to, at the minimum, lurk and offer tidbits of your
wisdom from time to time. Enjoy that hot tub and if you need a service
call, let me know!
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
Spa and Pool Service
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Smythe
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: N998DS (Don Smythe)
N998DS has been sold. I will now invest the money into a Hot Tub and
other things I can enjoy around the house. Here is an interesting point
that might help others in the future. I have Falcon insurance and the
new buyer was seeking the same company. They insisted that he have one
hour with a CFI in my Fox. I called my Falcon agent and asked him who
was best qualified to give the new buyer a checkout, a CFI that may have
never flown a Fox much less mine or the builder how built the flew the
airplane. His comment was, "That makes a lot of since". Long story
short, Falcon agreed to insure my buyer under the understanding that "I"
would provide one hour of "indoctrination" flight training in my Fox.
We did that today and I logged the one hour training into his flight log
book.
I know the difficulties I've seen on the list with people trying
to get flight training with CFI's in a Fox. This proves you can
negotiate these issues. Don't take the first thing you here. Use your
imagination and negotiate. It might pay off.
Don Smythe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when it comes
to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using straight breakers
on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics master and then using
breaker switches on things like landing lights, navs, strobes, heater, etc.
What have you guys done?
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (in progress)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
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| Subject: | Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
It was once stated many years ago here that if a breaker/fuse trips you most
likely have a serious problem and it will not reset anyway. In the interest
of cost, I installed the more robust automotive blade type fuses. To date,
I've never had one blow (about 8 years).
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
>
> I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when
> it comes to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using
> straight breakers on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics
> master and then using breaker switches on things like landing lights,
> navs, strobes, heater, etc. What have you guys done?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (in progress)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
I'm doing as Don did. He failed to mention that it is a bunch less
expensive this way also.
Andy Fultz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
It was once stated many years ago here that if a breaker/fuse trips you most
likely have a serious problem and it will not reset anyway. In the interest
of cost, I installed the more robust automotive blade type fuses. To date,
I've never had one blow (about 8 years).
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
>
> I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when
> it comes to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using
> straight breakers on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics
> master and then using breaker switches on things like landing lights,
> navs, strobes, heater, etc. What have you guys done?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (in progress)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
Darin,
That is about as complicated a question as the gross weight thing....
There is a thought ,(not agreed by all) that the breakers are a distraction
and should be installed not in an accessible place in flight.
NASA and many others have studied this ... so my suggestion is to install 2
automotive breaker boxes under the dash. One is the main system, lights,
master, avionics, ect. The other is the actual avionics breaker box. This
box is controlled by the avionics sw and a 30 amp or so relay to liven up
the avionics. One master breaker button to protect the whole thing. That
breaker is thrown when the over voltage protector is livened up. A simple
system works great and easy to deal with if something goes awry. This is the
way I wired my system and you can look it over to see if you like the idea.
Gee, I also have lipo battery packs for backup.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when it
comes to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using straight
breakers on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics master and
then using breaker switches on things like landing lights, navs, strobes,
heater, etc. What have you guys done?
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (in progress)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
Message 7
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
Don,
I am glad to see you still on the list; I have a lot of respect for you and
your experience.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Smythe
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
It was once stated many years ago here that if a breaker/fuse trips you most
likely have a serious problem and it will not reset anyway. In the interest
of cost, I installed the more robust automotive blade type fuses. To date,
I've never had one blow (about 8 years).
Don Smythe
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
>
> I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when
> it comes to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using
> straight breakers on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics
> master and then using breaker switches on things like landing lights,
> navs, strobes, heater, etc. What have you guys done?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (in progress)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Delaminating aileron traling edge |
The tailing edge of my ailerons are riveted at about six inch intervals and glued.
Is this typical?
The glue has failed in a few spots. Is this something to worry about?
A hangar buddy has offered to help me fix it. His suggestion was to drill out all
the rivets in the affected sections, clean the aluminum out then glue it with
structural epoxy and clamp. Anything else I should keep in mind?
Awful timing. My check ride was in two days. I guess I'll have to postpone.
-Luis Rodriguez
-N824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114054#114054
Message 9
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| Subject: | Just a reminder where to look for...... |
Just a reminder ... if you are interested in the Kitfox vs light-sport eligibility
issue you may read, reply, and comment on it at the following site...
http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/
...and don't forget to read the OFFICIAL FAA regulatory document that is the only
publicition that you can rely on to make a valid decision in determining if
YOUR Kitfox is eligible for use under sportpilot rules.
(Hint: keep the empty weight to a minimum... for a start. Also...learn the origin
of the wording "...since original certification as found in the FAA document.)
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf
steve
84KF Series 5 / 912UL
This post will be deleated by your administrator(s) for personal reasons in ...5...,
4..., 3... 2...,...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114058#114058
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| Subject: | Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
Darin,
I put in the Potter and Brumfield Push Pull circuit breakers. I liked the
simplicity of checking systems during annuals, but really not much of a
benefit over what Don suggests. I have never pulled one in flight, but did
have one accidentally pull once as I was removing something from the
passenger seat. I think it was my camera with the strap that hooked the
knob and pulled it. It was the power to my video camera set-up and caused a
moments consternation as I tried to determine - on the ground - why my
camera suddenly stopped working. This project has been a work in progress
for about five years and occasionally it will hiccup with lots of time spend
debugging it.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
>
> I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when
> it comes to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using
> straight breakers on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics
> master and then using breaker switches on things like landing lights,
> navs, strobes, heater, etc. What have you guys done?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (in progress)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum Takeoff Weight is not Gross weight..... period. |
Of course there will be no "new" information. The FAA has published all that you
need....and spent a lot of time getting it right too.
It to bad that it took but a few aviation publications to mis-inform the flying community with wrong assumptions due to the fact that they were not familiar with http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf
Unless you read and apply this to the FAR 1.1 definition you will get nowhere.
Just telling it like it is folks.....
steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114061#114061
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| Subject: | Delaminating aileron traling edge |
Luis,
If your aileron is riveted every 6 inches or so I would not make the repair
an emergency or grounding, it is still being held just fine. Mine do not
have any rivets in them.
john
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Delaminating aileron traling edge
The tailing edge of my ailerons are riveted at about six inch intervals and
glued. Is this typical?
The glue has failed in a few spots. Is this something to worry about?
A hangar buddy has offered to help me fix it. His suggestion was to drill
out all the rivets in the affected sections, clean the aluminum out then
glue it with structural epoxy and clamp. Anything else I should keep in
mind?
Awful timing. My check ride was in two days. I guess I'll have to postpone.
-Luis Rodriguez
-N824KF
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114054#114054
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Delaminating aileron traling edge |
Louis,
As I recall, the flaperons came glued and the rivets were placed exactly for
the reason you describe, to hold the things together when the glue fails.
It sounds to me like your fix is exactly what it calls for.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:50 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Delaminating aileron traling edge
>
> The tailing edge of my ailerons are riveted at about six inch intervals
> and glued. Is this typical?
>
> The glue has failed in a few spots. Is this something to worry about?
>
> A hangar buddy has offered to help me fix it. His suggestion was to drill
> out all the rivets in the affected sections, clean the aluminum out then
> glue it with structural epoxy and clamp. Anything else I should keep in
> mind?
>
> Awful timing. My check ride was in two days. I guess I'll have to
> postpone.
>
> -Luis Rodriguez
> -N824KF
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114054#114054
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
Darin,
Sometimes it's good to see others that are scratching their heads building as I am. I too had many questions as to the best way to wirre the panel so I went to one of Bob Nuckols seminars. This is his web address http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Look over his web site and think strongly about purchasing his book as it has
many wiring schematics that are simply done. If you are hooking up a Rotax 912s
it has that covered. You have already received good advice from those on this
list...Bob is an advocate of not using breakers for good reasons. The book
Aeroelectric Connection covers these philosophies well.
Happy Wiring,
Dan Billingsley
Mesa / KF-IV 912s / N314DW / Building
darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone has done when it comes
to breakers and breaker switches? I am thinking about using straight breakers
on the avionics with them being tied to the avionics master and then using
breaker switches on things like landing lights, navs, strobes, heater, etc. What
have you guys done?
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (in progress)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
Message 15
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
I've been reading the mail on this one. And It is obvious that the type
of
circuit protection is a personal convenience. For example I fly floats
in
remote locations. Circuit breakers are a nice convenience, should I
ever
experience a short circuit the popped breaker will make it much easier
to
locate. Automotive blade type fuses would provide an equal level of
protection without the ability to easily unload circuits selectively in
flight. My plane has a whopping great five circuits drawing a total of
about
10 Amps peak current. Carrying a reasonable supply of spares is also a
good
idea. Circuit protection is sort of like an insurance policy.... I'm
betting I'll need it and the electronic component manufacturers are
betting
I won't.
The important thing to me is not so much what protection you use but
where
you install it. My advice on that item is to install your protection as
close to your busses as possible. Several certified aircraft actually
install the breakers directly on the busses. That gives the most
protection
for everything down stream of the buss. Therefore it is also important
to
install some protection for the busses them selves too. A good healthy
fusible link right on the positive terminal of the battery ( not the
starter
circuit ) will protect all the busses that line feeds. You will also
want
to install some current protection between your alternator and your
battery
or main buss.
The last item is neatness. You will have to look at the set up of your
electrical system for many hours of enjoyable flight so you should make
the
installation so it looks neat. Remember if you use the blade fuses to
give
enough room to easily extract and replace fuses. Auto resetting
relays(breakers) like used on automotive headlights should be reserved
for
that application and with the exception of the Dukes of Hazzard be kept
out
of the air..
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 5:11 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
>
>
>
> I am figureing out my panel and was wondering what everyone
> has done when it comes to breakers and breaker switches? I
> am thinking about using straight breakers on the avionics
> with them being tied to the avionics master and then using
> breaker switches on things like landing lights, navs,
> strobes, heater, etc. What have you guys done?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (in progress)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114026#114026
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Delaminating aileron trailing edge |
Believe it. I split my ailerons in the back and then revited. Why? so that if
any water got inside it would drain out. I also put holes in the bottom rear
of the ailerons to assist in drainage of water. I would leave them.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114076#114076
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| Subject: | Re: Delaminating aileron traling edge |
Louis,
I'm not sure I'd postpone my check ride unless this is some serious
structural failure. Sounds like it's a somewhat common problem that might
be more cosmetic than structural. If you are riveted every 6", the
flapperon can't come apart. I saw an award winning Fox (No Names) at
Sun-N-Fun in about 1997 that had the same thing you are talking about. I
noticed it then and decided to double up my rivets (3") on the trailing
edge. I didn't feel comfortable using recessed flushed rivets because of
the thinness of the material so I used standard 3/32". I then used a dremel
tool to trim all the rivets up to the ball on the back side. Once done, I
placed a small drop of West Systems epoxy on both sides (one at a time until
cured). It formed a small well rounded bubble to help hide the rivet.
Worked fine with "NO" delamination to date.
Don Smythe
Classic IV w/582
Newport News, Va.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Delaminating aileron traling edge
>
> The tailing edge of my ailerons are riveted at about six inch intervals
> and glued. Is this typical?
>
> The glue has failed in a few spots. Is this something to worry about?
>
> A hangar buddy has offered to help me fix it. His suggestion was to drill
> out all the rivets in the affected sections, clean the aluminum out then
> glue it with structural epoxy and clamp. Anything else I should keep in
> mind?
>
> Awful timing. My check ride was in two days. I guess I'll have to
> postpone.
>
> -Luis Rodriguez
> -N824KF
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114054#114054
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? |
Dan,
Good advise on using Bob Nuckolls book and information. You may not
remember,
he was once was on this list. Good info and supplies, I have his over
voltage protection and many of his tools.
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch?
Darin,
Sometimes it's good to see others that are scratching their heads building
as I am. I too had many questions as to the best way to wirre the panel so I
went to one of Bob Nuckols seminars. This is his web address
http://www.aeroelectric. <http://www.aeroelectric.com/> com/
Look over his web site and think strongly about purchasing his book as it
has many wiring schematics that are simply done. If you are hooking up a
Rotax 912s it has that covered. You have already received good advice from
those on this list...Bob is an advocate of not using breakers for good
reasons. The book Aeroelectric Connection covers these philosophies well.
Happy Wiring,
Dan Billingsley
Mesa / KF-IV 912s / N314DW / Building
darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
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