---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/24/07: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 AM - Re: Apple Valley Fly-in (Rick) 2. 07:47 AM - Cameron Park Kitfox Fly-in and BBQ (Lowell Fitt) 3. 08:10 AM - Re: Cameron Park Kitfox Fly-in and BBQ (Lynn Matteson) 4. 07:10 PM - Grove gear and matco wheels?? (Don G) 5. 07:34 PM - Re: Grove gear and matco wheels?? (Lynn Matteson) 6. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (Noel Loveys) 7. 09:52 PM - Re: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? (vft@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:26 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Apple Valley Fly-in Anyone willing and able to do a pick up at F70? Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:08 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Apple Valley Fly-in There will be an ultralight fly-in at Apple Valley airport in the high desert of Southern California saturday and there should be at least two kitfoxes there. This might be a good chance for some of us to piggy back on this event as an excuse to get together. Lowell 3:49 PM 3:49 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:17 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Cameron Park Kitfox Fly-in and BBQ I have mentioned the event a couple of times as comments on posts, but have not made a formal invitation to the Kitfox List. So here goes. On June 9th from morning to whenever, my wife Kay and I are hosting the 9th Cameron Park Kitfox fly-in and BBQ. We do it for fun and that it is. Typically we attract about 20 or so Kitfoxes and several other home built types including Rans and RVs. All are welcome - flyers, builders, friends. For further information and flying or driving instructions go to http://cameronparkkitfox.com For those wishing to come early due to travel distances, drop a note and we can arrange a place to bunk. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp 1998 850 hrs. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cameron Park Kitfox Fly-in and BBQ I talked with Debra at Kitfox last evening, and she and John are planning on coming. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/293+ hrs do not archive On May 24, 2007, at 10:46 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > I have mentioned the event a couple of times as comments on posts, > but have not made a formal invitation to the Kitfox List. So here > goes. > > On June 9th from morning to whenever, my wife Kay and I are hosting > the 9th Cameron Park Kitfox fly-in and BBQ. We do it for fun and > that it is. Typically we attract about 20 or so Kitfoxes and > several other home built types including Rans and RVs. All are > welcome - flyers, builders, friends. > > For further information and flying or driving instructions go to > http://cameronparkkitfox.com > > For those wishing to come early due to travel distances, drop a > note and we can arrange a place to bunk. > > Lowell Fitt > Cameron Park, CA > Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp > 1998 850 hrs. > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:27 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Grove gear and matco wheels?? From: "Don G" Gents, All of you fellas who have changed to the Grove gear can you tell me if the matco wheels and axles from the welded tube gear will fit the grove legs? At 1571 bucks...(just checked groves website for price..gulp!) for 24 lbs of aluminum...dont want to spend any more than I have to. BTW,,,for a MK4 speedster.... -------- Don G. Central Illinois FireFly#098 Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114650#114650 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:19 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Grove gear and matco wheels?? I have the Douglas wheels, with Matco brakes, and they fit perfectly to the Grove gear. But I could not use my stock axles...I had to use the axles that Grove provided. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/293+ hrs On May 24, 2007, at 10:09 PM, Don G wrote: > > Gents, > All of you fellas who have changed to the Grove gear can you tell > me if the matco wheels and axles from the welded tube gear will fit > the grove legs? > At 1571 bucks...(just checked groves website for price..gulp!) for > 24 lbs of aluminum...dont want to spend any more than I have to. > > BTW,,,for a MK4 speedster.... > > -------- > Don G. > Central Illinois > FireFly#098 > Luscombe 8A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:18 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? I can heartily agree with Bob Nuckols reasons for liking fuses over breakers...but removing blade fuses and even locating blown circuits while trying to fly a plane can be interesting. Breakers give the control/visual cues I prefer. As for your comments on wire size, burning, Etc. Right on! The wire sizes should be chosen for de-rated current draw. This means that there should be no splices into wires to power any one of numerous frivolous devices. If you really need it add an extra protected circuit. Make sure that all your wiring is protected... most certified aircraft will actually have one side of the buss attached directly to it's buss so the whole circuit is protected. Having worked with both coloured wires and certified white wiring I now feel much more comfortable with the white wiring. The wires themselves are manufactured to more exacting tolerances. The insulations are less likely to burn and are much more rugged. There are many shielded cables available in different sizes. Finally the wire charts in AC 43 will work with certified wire... I don't think I can say the same thing about automotive style wire in its myriad of Sesame Street colour. Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:50 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? > > > > +1 on the Bob Nuckols website and guidance, especially these > days in airplanes with electronic ignition or fuel control. > Unlike the days where the mags would keep the fan turning, > circuit design has become truly important even for VFR > airplanes. For example, the Diamond diesel twin was just > AD'd after a couple of flight instructors took off with > near-dead batteries and found that retracting the gear > reduced the buss voltage enough to kill the controls for BOTH engines. > > Circuit protection, be it CB or fuse, is not a personal > convenience. The protection is sized to protect the wire > used, NOT for whatever is at the end of the wire. I've seen > shorted wires light paper scraps and lint on fire. > Non-aviation wire insulations can actually catch fire or melt > off, posing their own hazard. The other thing that is often > ignored is that the CB or fuse provides a last-ditch chance > to kill a circuit manually. If the contacts in the switch > for your electric trim just failed in the closed position, > you would probably want to be able to pull the breaker ASAP. > > Bob > A&P, Aero Eng > Series 5 Vixen in-work > Gaithersburg, MD > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114196#114196 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? From: vft@aol.com You don't need to restrict yourself to the color white if you want to use th e higher quality Tefzel wire. It is available in just about any color includ ing multi color. As to fuses vs breakers, I have wired quite a few airplanes and have done it both ways depending on what the owner wanted. The auto typ e blade fuse blocks=C2-work very well and result in a clean, light, and si mple system. Never mine being able to reach them during flight. If you have designed your electrical system correctly there should never be a need to re place them while flying. For both of my own projects I chose to use a combo of switched and pull type breakers cause that's what I wanted. The important things to keep in mind are to use quality components, think through the mos t likely failure modes, and don't forget you will need to service something years from now. The first and last items are what frustrate folks most often . Usually in the form of a poor quality component at the end of a wire that' s too short and unreachable. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory Ex owner of N24ZM series 5 Safari :( -----Original Message----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:00 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? I can heartily agree with Bob Nuckols reasons for liking fuses over breakers ...but removing blade fuses and even locating blown circuits while trying to fly a plane can be interesting.=C2- Breakers give the control/visual cues =C2-I prefer. As for your comments on wire size, burning, Etc.=C2- Right on!=C2- The w ire sizes should be chosen for de-rated current draw.=C2- This means that there should be no splices into wires to power any one of numerous frivolous devices.=C2- If you really need it add an extra protected circuit.=C2- Make sure that all your wiring is protected... most certified aircraft will actually have one side of the buss attached directly to it's buss so the who le circuit is protected. Having worked with both coloured wires and certified white wiring I now feel much more comfortable with the white wiring.=C2- The wires themselves are manufactured to more exacting tolerances.=C2- The insulations are less li kely to burn and are much more rugged.=C2- There are many shielded cables available in different sizes.=C2- Finally the wire charts in AC 43 will wo rk with certified wire... I don't think I can say the same thing about autom otive style wire in its myriad of Sesame Street colour. =C2- Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:50 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? > > > > +1 on the Bob Nuckols website and guidance, especially these > days in airplanes with electronic ignition or fuel control.=C2- > Unlike the days where the mags would keep the fan turning, > circuit design has become truly important even for VFR > airplanes.=C2- For example, the Diamond diesel twin was just > AD'd after a couple of flight instructors took off with > near-dead batteries and found that retracting the gear > reduced the buss voltage enough to kill the controls for BOTH engines. > > Circuit protection, be it CB or fuse, is not a personal > convenience.=C2- The protection is sized to protect the wire > used, NOT for whatever is at the end of the wire.=C2- I've seen > shorted wires light paper scraps and lint on fire.=C2- > Non-aviation wire insulations can actually catch fire or melt > off, posing their own hazard.=C2- The other thing that is often > ignored is that the CB or fuse provides a last-ditch chance > to kill a circuit manually.=C2- If the contacts in the switch > for your electric trim just failed in the closed position, > you would probably want to be able to pull the breaker ASAP. > > Bob > A&P, Aero Eng > Series 5 Vixen in-work > Gaithersburg, MD > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114196#114196 > > > ========== > Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ========== > bsp;=C2- available href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma tronics.com > ========== > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:50 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? > > > > +1 on the Bob Nuckols website and guidance, especially these > days in airplanes with electronic ignition or fuel control.=C2- > Unlike the days where the mags would keep the fan turning, > circuit design has become truly important even for VFR > airplanes.=C2- For example, the Diamond diesel twin was just > AD'd after a couple of flight instructors took off with > near-dead batteries and found that retracting the gear > reduced the buss voltage enough to kill the controls for BOTH engines. > > Circuit protection, be it CB or fuse, is not a personal > convenience.=C2- The protection is sized to protect the wire > used, NOT for whatever is at the end of the wire.=C2- I've seen > shorted wires light paper scraps and lint on fire.=C2- > Non-aviation wire insulations can actually catch fire or melt > off, posing their own hazard.=C2- The other thing that is often > ignored is that the CB or fuse provides a last-ditch chance > to kill a circuit manually.=C2- If the contacts in the switch > for your electric trim just failed in the closed position, > you would probably want to be able to pull the breaker ASAP. > > Bob > A&P, Aero Eng > Series 5 Vixen in-work > Gaithersburg, MD > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114196#114196 > > > ========== > Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ========== > bsp;=C2- available href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma tronics.com > ========== > > > =C2- Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:50 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Straight Breakers vs. Breaker Switch? > > > > +1 on the Bob Nuckols website and guidance, especially these > days in airplanes with electronic ignition or fuel control.=C2- > Unlike the days where the mags would keep the fan turning, > circuit design has become truly important even for VFR > airplanes.=C2- For example, the Diamond diesel twin was just > AD'd after a couple of flight instructors took off with > near-dead batteries and found that retracting the gear > reduced the buss voltage enough to kill the controls for BOTH engines. > > Circuit protection, be it CB or fuse, is not a personal > convenience.=C2- The protection is sized to protect the wire > used, NOT for whatever is at the end of the wire.=C2- I've seen > shorted wires light paper scraps and lint on fire.=C2- > Non-aviation wire insulations can actually catch fire or melt > off, posing their own hazard.=C2- The other thing that is often > ignored is that the CB or fuse provides a last-ditch chance > to kill a circuit manually.=C2- If the contacts in the switch > for your electric trim just failed in the closed position, > you would probably want to be able to pull the breaker ASAP. > > Bob > A&P, Aero Eng > Series 5 Vixen in-work > Gaithersburg, MD > > -------- > Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114196#114196 > > > ========== > Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ========== > bsp;=C2- available href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma tronics.com > ========== > > > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL at AOL.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.