---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/05/07: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:50 AM - Re: kingfox tires going out of business? (akflyer) 2. 08:18 AM - Speeedster Wing Tips () 3. 02:54 PM - Re: Want width of Kitfox Model IV cowling/"engine bay" (tleed) 4. 03:26 PM - Re: Cowling width (Tim Vader) 5. 03:35 PM - Re: Cowling width (Ted Palamarek) 6. 03:37 PM - Re: Cowling width (john oakley) 7. 03:38 PM - Re: Cowling width (Jimmie Blackwell) 8. 04:08 PM - Re: Stuck on Spraying (Randy Daughenbaugh) 9. 04:42 PM - Re: Cowling width (jdmcbean) 10. 04:46 PM - Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (tleed) 11. 05:44 PM - Re: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? () 12. 05:49 PM - Re: Cowling width (tleed) 13. 05:50 PM - Engines and experimentation (GONER752@aol.com) 14. 05:57 PM - Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (tleed) 15. 05:59 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (Michael Logan) 16. 06:07 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (GONER752@aol.com) 17. 06:46 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (kurt schrader) 18. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (Norm) 19. 07:09 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (GONER752@aol.com) 20. 07:34 PM - Engines and experimentation (Rexster) 21. 08:01 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 22. 08:01 PM - Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? (tleed) 23. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? () 24. 08:24 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 25. 09:41 PM - Re: Engines and experimentation (John Murphy) 26. 10:45 PM - Re: kingfox tires going out of business? (eskflyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:47 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kingfox tires going out of business? From: "akflyer" Wow.. I just talked to Kevin Saturday and he is getting in a run of these for 6" wheels.. he did not say a word about going out of business.. Maybe they are just discontinuing the 8" line??? Kevin, you gonna jump in and let us know?? -------- Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116629#116629 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:50 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Speeedster Wing Tips I'm to the point of installing the metal backing strips on my mod 4 Sptr.Previously in the manual I installed the backing strip on the inside of the #9 rib as instructed and that was for the standard wing tip(no mention on the speedster model).Now the backing strip for the speedster ti goes on the outside of the rib.The can't be installed in one piece do to the adhisive around the spars.That's not my problem.The trailing edge has backing strips for the flaperon brackets.Do I stop short of those or continue to the end?If I go to the end,the added thickness my result in the rivets not being long enough to have a good grab unless I use longer rivets. ---Leon Morris/Classic 4/50%/ Flower Mound,TX ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:49 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Want width of Kitfox Model IV cowling/"engine bay" From: "tleed" Lots of peekers, no proffers? -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116724#116724 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:53 PM PST US From: "Tim Vader" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cowling width Thomas I have a Subaru under my cowl. My first iteration for the cowl was homebuilt by myself with many, many hours of fiberglassing. I started with a wire frame around the engine, removed it and and kept doing layups and sanding till I felt it was right. Pictures available if you want. It was damaged during an accident. I didn't want to put the time in again to build a new cowl. My new cowl is from an Avid. I bought it from Steve Winder at Airdale for 450 or 500 bucks and it fits the Subaru nicely. It takes a bit of work to make it fit the curves of my firewall but all in all it looks pretty good. I'm away from home right now but I got a dimension of 26 inches wide for the Subaru from the website www.ramengines.com . You may want to have a look at their website. Tim Vader Classic IV Subaru EA81 Calgary, Alberta, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "tleed" Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cowling width > > I just bought a Kitfox Model IV unassembled kit from the original > purchaser. My purchase includes no firewall-forward items. > > So I'm researching engines and need to know the maximum internal width of > the "engine bay" inside the Model IV factory cowling. I'd like to compare > this to the cowl supplied by Great Plains for their VW motor for the > Kitfox. I understand the VW motors are 32 inches wide, while a Corvair > motor, for instance, is substantially narrower at 28 inches. I suppose > that's because the Corvair's displacement is distributed among more > cylinders. > > At any rate, if anybody has the width of the Rotax 912 & 914 and Subaru > EA-81, I'd like to see that, too. That would tell me how accommodating the > factory cowl can be to both "supported" and "unsupported" engines. > > Incidentally, I tried to get the width of the factory cowling from Kitfox, > but they have a policy against releasing dimensions, so I can't get it > there. Can somebody with a tape measure help me out? And where did you > folks get cowlings from that mounted Subarus? From Kitfox or elsewhere? > > Thomas > > -------- > Kitfox Model IV-1200 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116576#116576 > > > -- > 3:33 PM > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:35:38 PM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cowling width Thomas I have the standard model 4-1200 round bumped engine cowl. The dimensions are; Just back of the bumps, the front of the cowl is approx 27 inches by 27 inches. The rear section of the cowling which extends from the bumped section to the area of the fire wall widens out to approx 36 inches wide by 27 inches high. Hope that helps Ted Model IV-1200 Rotax 912UL Edmonton -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tleed Sent: June 4, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cowling width I just bought a Kitfox Model IV unassembled kit from the original purchaser. My purchase includes no firewall-forward items. So I'm researching engines and need to know the maximum internal width of the "engine bay" inside the Model IV factory cowling. I'd like to compare this to the cowl supplied by Great Plains for their VW motor for the Kitfox. I understand the VW motors are 32 inches wide, while a Corvair motor, for instance, is substantially narrower at 28 inches. I suppose that's because the Corvair's displacement is distributed among more cylinders. At any rate, if anybody has the width of the Rotax 912 & 914 and Subaru EA-81, I'd like to see that, too. That would tell me how accommodating the factory cowl can be to both "supported" and "unsupported" engines. Incidentally, I tried to get the width of the factory cowling from Kitfox, but they have a policy against releasing dimensions, so I can't get it there. Can somebody with a tape measure help me out? And where did you folks get cowlings from that mounted Subarus? From Kitfox or elsewhere? Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:00 PM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cowling width Hi Thomas, The cowl fits on the out side of the fuselage, is the firewall width, I cannot get my cowl off today as it is blowing, what other measurements are needed? John Oakley -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tleed Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cowling width I just bought a Kitfox Model IV unassembled kit from the original purchaser. My purchase includes no firewall-forward items. So I'm researching engines and need to know the maximum internal width of the "engine bay" inside the Model IV factory cowling. I'd like to compare this to the cowl supplied by Great Plains for their VW motor for the Kitfox. I understand the VW motors are 32 inches wide, while a Corvair motor, for instance, is substantially narrower at 28 inches. I suppose that's because the Corvair's displacement is distributed among more cylinders. At any rate, if anybody has the width of the Rotax 912 & 914 and Subaru EA-81, I'd like to see that, too. That would tell me how accommodating the factory cowl can be to both "supported" and "unsupported" engines. Incidentally, I tried to get the width of the factory cowling from Kitfox, but they have a policy against releasing dimensions, so I can't get it there. Can somebody with a tape measure help me out? And where did you folks get cowlings from that mounted Subarus? From Kitfox or elsewhere? Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116576#116576 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:34 PM PST US From: "Jimmie Blackwell" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cowling width Thomas If you will be a little more specific about where you need the measurements I will get them for the 912 next time I am out at my hangar. Should be in the next few days. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed that Kitfox would not help you with that. In the past they have been a bit more accomodating. Hope this does not reflect a trend in attitude toward us Kitfoxer's. Jimmie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Vader" Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cowling width > > Thomas > > I have a Subaru under my cowl. My first iteration for the cowl was > homebuilt by myself with many, many hours of fiberglassing. I started with > a wire frame around the engine, removed it and and kept doing layups and > sanding till I felt it was right. Pictures available if you want. It was > damaged during an accident. I didn't want to put the time in again to > build a new cowl. My new cowl is from an Avid. I bought it from Steve > Winder at Airdale for 450 or 500 bucks and it fits the Subaru nicely. It > takes a bit of work to make it fit the curves of my firewall but all in > all it looks pretty good. I'm away from home right now but I got a > dimension of 26 inches wide for the Subaru from the website > www.ramengines.com . You may want to have a look at their website. > > Tim Vader > Classic IV > Subaru EA81 > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tleed" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Cowling width > > >> >> I just bought a Kitfox Model IV unassembled kit from the original >> purchaser. My purchase includes no firewall-forward items. >> >> So I'm researching engines and need to know the maximum internal width of >> the "engine bay" inside the Model IV factory cowling. I'd like to compare >> this to the cowl supplied by Great Plains for their VW motor for the >> Kitfox. I understand the VW motors are 32 inches wide, while a Corvair >> motor, for instance, is substantially narrower at 28 inches. I suppose >> that's because the Corvair's displacement is distributed among more >> cylinders. >> >> At any rate, if anybody has the width of the Rotax 912 & 914 and Subaru >> EA-81, I'd like to see that, too. That would tell me how accommodating >> the factory cowl can be to both "supported" and "unsupported" engines. >> >> Incidentally, I tried to get the width of the factory cowling from >> Kitfox, but they have a policy against releasing dimensions, so I can't >> get it there. Can somebody with a tape measure help me out? And where did >> you folks get cowlings from that mounted Subarus? From Kitfox or >> elsewhere? >> >> Thomas >> >> -------- >> Kitfox Model IV-1200 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116576#116576 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 3:33 PM >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:24 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Stuck on Spraying Ditto to Kirk's advice. And I used a CHEAP gun and HVLP system from Harbor Freight. It was $80 or $90 including shipping. I am real pleased with the result. I did only paint early in the morning when it was cool. Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Stuck on Spraying Or if it is going on dry you can add a longer hose from the blower to the gun. In the case of the HVLP that I used a piece of garden hose worked. This is what the HVLP manufacturer suggested to help cool off the air going to the gun. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Stuck on Spraying The setting of 20 lbs is fine if you are using a HVLP gravity feed spray gun. If you are using a regular gun you need around 45 lbs at the gun. If its going on dry add a little more material ( Poly brush). GLENN HORNE Kitfox Model II ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Billingsley Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Stuck on Spraying I thought I would throw this one out to those who have gone before... I am currently trying to do my first spraying of the the Poly Brush and it seems to be drying too quickly prior to hitting the elevator. It is not going on wet enough to make the surface look wet (as the book says). The factors: * The ambient temp is about 75 degrees (I have an AC in my garage so I can controll it). It is a hot dry day outside. * I built a spray booth that has air filtered in and out with a box fan pulling the air through. * I am using a chepo spray gun (small) from Harbor Feight. I'm wondering if I need to go get a better gun. I have it wide open. * I'm using a pressure setting of 20 lbs * I started with the mix of 3 Poly Brush to 1 part Poly Fiber RR8500 reducer. A friend suggested I increase the reducer so I did to 3 to 2 parts reducer...helped a little...still not wet enough. I'm ending up with a rough texture when it drys. * My technique is to hold the sprayer about 5-6 inches away from the fabric as I make a pass. I have tried going slower...nada. So I have exhausted my knowledge / guesses other than going out and buying a new spray gun. Anyone have any other thoughts? Dan Billingsley Mesa, AZ / KF-IV, 912s href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:57 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cowling width "Frankly, I am a bit disappointed that Kitfox would not help you with that. In the past they have been a bit more accomodating. Hope this does not reflect a trend in attitude toward us Kitfoxer's." Jimmie... You should all know better then that... Debra & I are very supportive and appreciate the Kitfox family. Obviously a mis-understanding is at hand.. we do not have a model IV cowling in stock to get measurements from... As they are built from molds, we do not have dimensional drawings for the cowlings. If I had the information easily at hand I would have gladly helped.. after all it may turn into a sale of cowlings. Hopefully we would be the first place to look for Kitfox parts.... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jimmie Blackwell Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cowling width Thomas If you will be a little more specific about where you need the measurements I will get them for the 912 next time I am out at my hangar. Should be in the next few days. Frankly, I am a bit disappointed that Kitfox would not help you with that. In the past they have been a bit more accomodating. Hope this does not reflect a trend in attitude toward us Kitfoxer's. Jimmie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Vader" Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cowling width > > Thomas > > I have a Subaru under my cowl. My first iteration for the cowl was > homebuilt by myself with many, many hours of fiberglassing. I started with > a wire frame around the engine, removed it and and kept doing layups and > sanding till I felt it was right. Pictures available if you want. It was > damaged during an accident. I didn't want to put the time in again to > build a new cowl. My new cowl is from an Avid. I bought it from Steve > Winder at Airdale for 450 or 500 bucks and it fits the Subaru nicely. It > takes a bit of work to make it fit the curves of my firewall but all in > all it looks pretty good. I'm away from home right now but I got a > dimension of 26 inches wide for the Subaru from the website > www.ramengines.com . You may want to have a look at their website. > > Tim Vader > Classic IV > Subaru EA81 > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tleed" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:00 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Cowling width > > >> >> I just bought a Kitfox Model IV unassembled kit from the original >> purchaser. My purchase includes no firewall-forward items. >> >> So I'm researching engines and need to know the maximum internal width of >> the "engine bay" inside the Model IV factory cowling. I'd like to compare >> this to the cowl supplied by Great Plains for their VW motor for the >> Kitfox. I understand the VW motors are 32 inches wide, while a Corvair >> motor, for instance, is substantially narrower at 28 inches. I suppose >> that's because the Corvair's displacement is distributed among more >> cylinders. >> >> At any rate, if anybody has the width of the Rotax 912 & 914 and Subaru >> EA-81, I'd like to see that, too. That would tell me how accommodating >> the factory cowl can be to both "supported" and "unsupported" engines. >> >> Incidentally, I tried to get the width of the factory cowling from >> Kitfox, but they have a policy against releasing dimensions, so I can't >> get it there. Can somebody with a tape measure help me out? And where did >> you folks get cowlings from that mounted Subarus? From Kitfox or >> elsewhere? >> >> Thomas >> >> -------- >> Kitfox Model IV-1200 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116576#116576 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 3:33 PM >> >> > > PM PM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:54 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? From: "tleed" I think it's time to stir this thread up again, especially since I'm now shopping for engine options for my newly-acquired Model IV-1200 kit. My preliminary research has uncovered the following curiosities, which are reflected in the above posts: The Corvair is approximately the same installed weight as the Subaru EZ-81, but somehow the Corvair is too heavy, while the Subie has been deemed acceptable to a significant number of owner/installers. The Corvair is 28" wide, while the VW, at 190 lbs. (with all the re-drive and liquid-cooled goodies), is 32" wide. Don't know the width of the Subie. The Corvair develops its hp at an rpm several hundred rpm lower than the Rotaxes, and by virtue of it's 6-cyl. design, is (probably) significantly smoother and (perhaps) quieter. (Does engine sound and/or decibel level matter at all?) I only weigh 155 lbs., and I've seen no discussion yet how much the primary pilot's own weight usually plays in engine selection. Nobody makes a ready-fit cowling package for the VW, because Great Plains' cowling is for a direct-drive motor, which has a 5-inch different centerline, and even Great Plains' Model IV engine mount is for a direct-drive version, so it would have to be modified, too. I'm told the Corvair can be mounted significantly farther back than the Subie, and by moving the battery behind the pilot and putting a relatively small weight close to the tailwheel, you can resolve a lot of CG problems the extra engine weight might create. That being said, of course the Corvair is among the heavy kids on the block, requires a scratch-built engine mount, and will necessitate some fiberglass skills up front, but other that that, how bad can it be? I'm intrigued by the idea of tractor-like torque & hp (a broad, flat, and low power band), all-American economy, reliability, and parts availability, and relatively quiet and smooth operation. I'll give up a little weight for that, I think. Have I sparked any new thinking here? I'm new at this, so I'm trying to provoke discussion, not proffer authoritative conclusions. Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116754#116754 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:02 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? Thomas, I'm afraid you won't get much of a response about the Corvair because there's almost no one out there using them on the kitfox. Norm, are you out there? Norm claims to have flown his kitfox behind a Corvair. I have a Corvair installed and running but not flying yet. I can tell you this: It's the cheapest option - buy for a couple hundred, completely build for 3 thousand (quality build). The thing runs like a sewing machine, smooth as glass - almost no vibration. Power to spare, low RPM. Bulletproof. I can stand outside my plane (at the driver's door, so to speak) and have a conversation with family members a few yards away. It should make for a Hell of a ride - quiet, dependable, powerful, easy to rebuild yourself with minimal engine skills. Weight and balance becomes more critical. Haven't got into that part yet, still building. If I remember right, Norm claims to be running two batteries in the tail to balance it. "Norm...do you read? ...Come in Norm..." If you haven't got William Wynne's Corvair rebuilding manual, get one and read it. Small investment for a big decision. John Sandt KF7 Trigear builder / BRS / Corvair / Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:34 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cowling width From: "tleed" Ooops! I didn't mean to start a "pile on the factory" thread. I just meant to relay the fact that I couldn't get this from the factory because I didn't want someone to "helpfully" refer me back there. I'm sure the McBeans are going through small-business growing pains, and I'm just glad the Kitfox isn't a complete orphan. They've already been quite helpful to me with other "newbie"-type questions and haven't made a dime off me...so far. What I really want to know is whether there is a place to get a ready-built cowl that will enclose a Corvair without modification. Or, barring that, where can you get a cowl that would require the least amount of modification? Or, barring that, would part of my choice to use a Corvair motor include the conscious decision to go into fiberglass reconstruction and or fabrication from scratch? What I do know is that Great Plains makes a Model IV cowl that encloses their VW direct drive motors, which are 32" max width, while the Corvair is 28" max width. Based on the dimensions above, it doesn't look like the factory Kitfox cowl would work without modification because it tapers too much at the front, while the Great Plains cowl is plenty wide, unmodified. The next question would be length, I think. I haven't investigated the location of the forward corners of the Corvair v. the VW, Subaru, or Rotaxes. Yet. Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116766#116766 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:10 PM PST US From: GONER752@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda motor from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally opposed 4 cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like it would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one being used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts? Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:45 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? From: "tleed" John, thanks. I've ordered William Wynne's Corvair manual. That's what intrigues me: quiet, smooth, powerful, and simple. No re-drive, no turbo. And economical, too! GM did something right with the Corvair. And yet there are plenty of IV owners who have opted for the Subaru. Who's the salesman responsible for that? Hurry up and get yours in the air and let the rest of us know how it's going! Of course, yours is a 7, not a IV... Does that represent a marginal, or insurmountable distinction? Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116769#116769 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:20 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Back in 1994, I saw a Kitfox with a Yamaha Virago engine. It was a shaft drive motorcycle so he put the prop hub on the drive shaft and would start the engine in neutral and then shift to second to taxi and fly. Mike Logan _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GONER752@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:50 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda motor from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally opposed 4 cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like it would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one being used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts? Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive _____ See what's free at AOL.com . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:39 PM PST US From: GONER752@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Mike, Now that's an experimenter.:-) I wonder if he could shift further up to maximize economy for cruise? I may have to start cruising the local bone yards for old Hondas.:-) Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:42 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Hi "Goner", Greg, a few years back someone built one model of this engine with a full length shaft running over the top of the engine to hold the prop. Not pretty, but this gives you bearings that can take the prop forces. I've been looking in Google for anything on it for you, but no luck yet. It might have been in an old KitPlanes where I saw it... Might be in an EAA search too. Here is another honda and VW that have been modified for your interest. Click on the pic for more info. http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/17/ron-patrick-s-jet-powered-honda-scooter/ Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo CAP prop Florida and Panama --- GONER752@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of different engines and so forth, this > little marble's been > rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone > ever looked at the Honda motor > from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum > block, horizontally opposed 4 > cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials > it doesn't seem like it > would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging > on the internet hasn't > produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've > never heard of one being > used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or > thoughts? > Greg G. > > Macedon, N.Y. > 23NK > n375KL > Mod 2 > 582 Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:26 PM PST US From: Norm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? I sent Thomas a personal e-mail saying that it is my oponion that the Corvair is not the best option for the IV 1200. As he says there are Subarus in IVs. I think they are to heavy also but, to each his own its expermental aviation. I have a Corvair installed in a S5 1550. I like the installiation, I like flying it. I am having a problem with high oil temps. After talking to WW yesterday about this I am hopeful to have that solved and get on with the flight testing. If you care to look at my installiation go here http://www.sportflight.com/ go to shared photos and files, then to engines. Its the first one listed under the title First Flight of my Model IV. Some how there was a mix up with someones elses title and my engine photos. I'm not much for talking about what I do but I'll answer any questions that I have personal knowledge about. If I have no knowledge I may be able to direct you to someone who has. Norm Beauchamp Kitfox S5 1550 Corvair, Warp Drive , two blade flying San Angelo, Tx. josandt@verizon.net wrote: > >Thomas, I'm afraid you won't get much of a response about the Corvair because there's almost no one out there using them on the kitfox. Norm, are you out there? Norm claims to have flown his kitfox behind a Corvair. I have a Corvair installed and running but not flying yet. I can tell you this: It's the cheapest option - buy for a couple hundred, completely build for 3 thousand (quality build). The thing runs like a sewing machine, smooth as glass - almost no vibration. Power to spare, low RPM. Bulletproof. I can stand outside my plane (at the driver's door, so to speak) and have a conversation with family members a few yards away. It should make for a Hell of a ride - quiet, dependable, powerful, easy to rebuild yourself with minimal engine skills. Weight and balance becomes more critical. Haven't got into that part yet, still building. If I remember right, Norm claims to be running two batteries in the tail to balance it. "Norm...do you read? ...Come in Norm..." If you hav! > en't got William Wynne's Corvair rebuilding manual, get one and read it. Small investment for a big decision. > >John Sandt KF7 Trigear builder / BRS / Corvair / Ridgecrest, CA > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:01 PM PST US From: GONER752@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation Now that's experimentation gone mad.:-) Awesome. After some further searching, it appears the Honda GL1000 engine is rated at 84 hp. Not too shabby. Maybe food for thought. Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:52 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation If the GL1000 engine puts out 84 horsepower, does that open up even more options with the other four cylinder of 1200cc and the six cylinder 150 0s! It would be interesting to find out which one or two gear ratios wor k best. One for climb and one for cruise? Remove the other gears, includ ing reverse to save weight.! It sounds simple, but when we read someone's development stories on a jo b like this, it's a big job. But, somebody do it okay? Keep us up to dat e on your progress and I hope you make a fortune on your work! Rex in southeast Michigan Model 3 575 hours 912UL Warp -- GONER752@aol.com wrote: Now that's experimentation gone mad.:-) Awesome. After some further sear ching, it appears the Honda GL1000 engine is rated at 84 hp. Not too sha bby. Maybe food for thought.Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive

If the GL1000 engine puts out 84 horsepower, does that open up& nbsp;even more options with the other four cylinder of 1200cc and t he six cylinder 1500s! It would be interesting to find out which one or two gear ratios work best. One for climb and one for cruise? Remove the other gears, including reverse to save weight.!

It sounds simple, but when we read someone's development stories on a job like this, it's a big job. But, somebody do it okay? Keep us up to date on your progress and I hope you make a fortune on your work!

Rex in southeast Michigan
Model 3
575 hours
912UL
Warp
-- GONER752@aol.com wrote:

Now that's experimentation gone mad.:-) Awesome. After some further searching, it appears the Honda GL1000 engine is rated at 84 hp. Not to o shabby. Maybe food for thought.
Greg G.
 
Macedon, N.Y.
23NK
n375KL
Mod 2
582
 
do not archive


 
________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:55 PM PST US From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation I have a Sport Aviation mag from about 1991 that has a Goldwing engine in that was shown at Sun and Fun if I remember right. I think the company's name was H and H enginering or something like that. They had a redrive on it that I think used the transmission. I'll look for the article and report back when I find it. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Chisholm Mn >From: GONER752@aol.com >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation >Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT > >Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been >rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda >motor >from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally >opposed 4 >cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like >it >would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't >produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one >being >used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts? >Greg G. > >Macedon, N.Y. >23NK >n375KL >Mod 2 >582 > > >do not archive > > >************************************** See what's free at >http://www.aol.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:55 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? From: "tleed" Norm, I have a question for you: what's the distance from the firewall to the front shoulder or plane of the motor? Or from the firewall to the inside rear wall of the cowl? What I'm looking for is whether a cowl made to clear a Great Plains VW will clear the Corvair front-to-back. Were you able to use a factory Kitfox cowl, or did you have to fabricate from scratch or lengthen someone else's pre-made cowl? If so, whose? If my info is correct, Great Plains' cowl will clear the Corvair with room to spare on the sides, but I don't know if it will clear length-wise. Again, I know you have a V and I have a IV, so I'd need to compare the longitudinal firewall-forward dimensions of the two designs, but one thing at a time...unless you know those dimensions, too. Thomas -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116801#116801 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:07 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Anybody using a Corvair Engine? Thomas, I tend to agree with Norm. The KF7 is another 1550 GVW plane designed to take a larger engine, up to an O-200. If I were building a 1200 lb plane, I probably would have gone with a VW, another simple design - like a mini-Corvair but without the hydraulic valves. VW engines are probably the only engines simpler than the Corvair to rebuild. I will let you know when I get mine flying. I'm also hoping that Norm will post stats for his bird once he gets back into the air! Good Luck, John John Sandt KF7 builder / Tri-gear / Corvair / BRS / Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:03 PM PST US From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation I knew I had the mag somewhere, and it is the July 1993 Sport Aviation mag. On page 41 there was a short article and pictures of a Goldwing engine conversion. The short article says that H&H engine Conversions of Camarillo, Ca displayed an engine at Sun and Fun that is an aircraft conversion of the Honda Gloldwing 1100 motorcycle engine. It has a 2.5-1 gear reduction unit, a new oil sump and weighs about 140 lbs. ......conversion was being offered for $5500........ for more info....call H&H engine Conversions at 805/388/3025. I've thought about this quite a bit myself, I almost got a Goldwing engine to start experimenting, but never got further than that. I think if a person was to get a new crankcase machined to eliminate any extra weight and use the Honda crank, pistons, cylinders, and heads you could get the weight down, but it would not be cheep. Now I'm leaning toward the Jabaru 2200. In the end I would have a proven engine. I would like to see someone do it with the Hondas though. Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Chisholm, Mn >From: GONER752@aol.com >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation >Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT > >Speaking of different engines and so forth, this little marble's been >rolling around in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda >motor >from the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally >opposed 4 >cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like >it >would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the internet hasn't >produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never heard of one >being >used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts? >Greg G. > >Macedon, N.Y. >23NK >n375KL >Mod 2 >582 > > >do not archive > > >************************************** See what's free at >http://www.aol.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:14 PM PST US From: John Murphy Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engines and experimentation I recently installed a Rotec R-2800 7 cylinder radial engine in my Classic 4 Speedster. Runs good. John Murphy , St. Louis > From: thesupe@hotmail.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Ki tfox-List: Engines and experimentation> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 03:23:30 +000 l.com>> > I knew I had the mag somewhere, and it is the July 1993 Sport Avi ation mag. > On page 41 there was a short article and pictures of a Goldwin g engine > conversion. The short article says that H&H engine Conversions o f > Camarillo, Ca displayed an engine at Sun and Fun that is an aircraft > conversion of the Honda Gloldwing 1100 motorcycle engine. It has a 2.5-1 > gear reduction unit, a new oil sump and weighs about 140 lbs. > ......conve rsion was being offered for $5500........ for more info....call > H&H engin e Conversions at 805/388/3025. I've thought about this quite a > bit myself , I almost got a Goldwing engine to start experimenting, but never > got fu rther than that. I think if a person was to get a new crankcase > machined to eliminate any extra weight and use the Honda crank, pistons, > cylinders , and heads you could get the weight down, but it would not be > cheep. Now I'm leaning toward the Jabaru 2200. In the end I would have a > proven eng ine. I would like to see someone do it with the Hondas though.> Jim Chuk> A matronics.com> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Engin es and experimentation> >Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:49:47 EDT> >> >Speaking o f different engines and so forth, this little marble's been> >rolling aroun d in my head for awhile. Has anyone ever looked at the Honda > >motor> >fro m the Goldwing line? I mean, it's an aluminum block, horizontally > >oppose d 4> >cyl., 4 stroke. Stripped down to the bare essentials it doesn't seem like > >it> >would weigh a helluva lot. Some preliminary digging on the int ernet hasn't> >produced a HP yet. Maybe there's a good reason I've never he ard of one > >being> >used. I don't know. Anyone have any info or thoughts? > >Greg G.> >> >Macedon, N.Y.> >23NK> >n375KL> >Mod 2> >582> >> >> >do not archive> >> >> >> >************************************** See what's free a t > >http://www.aol.com.> > _______________________________________________ __________________> Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this sum mer - only on MSN > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm =============> > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: kingfox tires going out of business? From: "eskflyer" Very interesting . I looked yesterday and the add was there, today it is gone HMMMMMMMMM. 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