Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:05 AM - Jabiru 2200 Install Photos (DanM)
2. 07:29 AM - Re: Flying Question (mikeperkins)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 Install Photos (DanM)
4. 08:31 AM - Re: More on Cowlings (Guy Buchanan)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: Flying Question (kitfoxmike)
6. 11:17 AM - Re: More on Cowlings ()
7. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Flying Question (Andy Fultz)
8. 02:25 PM - engine out logic ?? (akflyer)
9. 04:06 PM - Re: engine out logic ?? (kitfoxmike)
10. 06:02 PM - Re: engine out logic ?? (eskflyer)
11. 06:18 PM - Re: engine out logic ?? (akflyer)
12. 07:09 PM - Re: More on Cowlings (Don G)
13. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: engine out logic ?? (kirk hull)
14. 07:54 PM - Re: engine out logic ?? (Noel Loveys)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru 2200 Install Photos |
I posted some photos of my Jabiru 2200 installion in my Model IV Kitfox, if any
one is interested, their on the Kitfox photos list.
Dan Mc Intyre
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117273#117273
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Question |
Hi Roger,
Ive flown a Kitfox Model 1 for thirteen years, am an EAA Flight Advisor. The usual
recommendation is to fly your approach at Vso times 1.3, where Vso is your
stall speed (with flaps set to landing position). My Kitfox has a Vso of about
33 mph. That would make my approach speed 1.3 x 33, or 43 mph. Not coincidentally,
thats also about my best glide speed. But I dont fly the pattern or approach
that slowly please read on.
First, why is Vso x 1.3 recommended? One reason is because it is very close to
the best glide speed in case of engine failure. Another reason is because its
the slowest youd want to go around the pattern, giving a somewhat safe margin
from stall during a 30-degree bank. Also, maintaining Vso x 1.3 is important for
aircraft that fly fairly fast so that a lot of deceleration is not required
over the runway limiting the approach speed to Vso x 1.3 plus a gust-margin
is important for aircraft that tend to use a good portion of the runway on landing.
Keep in mind that Vso changes with landing weight and density altitude.
That having been said, theres NO way Id fly my Kitfox around the pattern as slow
as 43 mph.or even 53 mph. First, I dont want to grow old in the pattern. Second,
I dont want to be an impediment to other aircraft behind me. However, its
more than just a kind consideration to fellow aviators being really slow in
the pattern is an actual safety issue. For that reason, my target pattern speed
is 70 mph. I keep that speed all the way down until I begin the flare. Yes,
I float a little.
If Im going into a very short field, I modify my usual approach to fly as low as
43 mph on final plus an optional gust-margin. Even in that case, however, I
would still tend to use 43 only after base leg because theres no real advantage
to fly slower until then. Even airliners fly faster speeds on approach than
on final, decelerating in the pattern. I have qualms about flying the pattern
and early approach at 70.
Another nice thing about a Kitfox is that it slips so nicely to burn off altitude
and airspeed. I tend to fly a little high and a little fast. That way, if I
have an engine failure in the pattern, I can glide to the field.
I do my final aiming adjustments by slipping or by throttle. If you dont slip often,
you might give it a try. Its not only a good thing to learn but it can be
fun. And using slips can control your landing spot very accurately. If youre
not interested in using slips, then you can still fly at say 70 around the pattern
and just learn the best way to decelerate on short final by using throttle.
My thought is to find a comfortable speed you like for flying the pattern and then
decelerate on short final. It just makes sense for slow-flying aircraft.
Mike Perkins
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117278#117278
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 2200 Install Photos |
I guess the photos won't be available for a few days. [Embarassed]
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117279#117279
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| Subject: | Re: More on Cowlings |
At 08:00 AM 6/7/2007, you wrote:
>Hey Don, not to change the subject but did you build your model 4
>speedster and if so how did you install the 1" backing strip for the
>wing tips? Did you cut it into two pieces to get around the rear
>spar and did you stop at the trailing edge where the backing strip
>for flaperon bracket is glued?
Hi Leon,
Sorry you didn't get any replies on this. I wasn't the
builder of my wings, but I know the backing strips are separated at
the rear spar. My strip goes to the TE as I'm not a speedster.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Question |
Since we are making conversation on flying patterns, mine are what I think is necessary
at the time I'm flying, meaning, if there is traffic, I'll either speed
up or slow down depending. If I have to delay my down wind, I'll go to 55
and as soon as I am ready for my base, I pull up just a little and slow to 50,
then, now this is really fun, I put in full rudder to the direction I'm turning
and aileron and down elevator. I leterally rotate in place, very cool.
If I need to speed it up I'll hit full bull and do around 120 in the downwind
and base and final is around 80 with bleeding off and a major slip in the process,
generally a base to final will be over the numbers about 10 ft. off very
cool fun and takes the, crap this is boring, out of flying.
As far as the engine out logic, this is mine, if the engine isn't up to par don't
take off. Must be why I have a Rotax 912. Have a nice day and above all,
make the flying fun.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117295#117295
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| Subject: | Re: More on Cowlings |
Hey Guy, thanks for the reply.I to have a backing strip on the inboard side of
the last rib because the manual is combined for the standard 4 and speedster and
they have you install it in one section,ans the in the options section (speedster
wing tips) the have you install a 1" backing strip on the outboard side
of the last rib.And the backing strips are also there for the flaperon bracket.If
I were to extend the 1" strip to the end I think the rivets may interfer
with the flaperon bracket install.--Leon---Leon Morris/Classic 4 Sptr/50%/Flower
Mound,Tx
---- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
> At 08:00 AM 6/7/2007, you wrote:
> >Hey Don, not to change the subject but did you build your model 4
> >speedster and if so how did you install the 1" backing strip for the
> >wing tips? Did you cut it into two pieces to get around the rear
> >spar and did you stop at the trailing edge where the backing strip
> >for flaperon bracket is glued?
>
> Hi Leon,
> Sorry you didn't get any replies on this. I wasn't the
> builder of my wings, but I know the backing strips are separated at
> the rear spar. My strip goes to the TE as I'm not a speedster.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Flying Question |
As far as the engine out logic, this is mine, if the engine isn't up to par
don't take off. Must be why I have a Rotax 912. Have a nice day and above
all, make the flying fun.
Kitfoxmike,
You have obviously never had a perfectly good running engine quit on you.
I don't care what you are running, you had better be prepared for it to
happen at the least opportune time. It can and will if you fly long enough.
It's a scary feeling yet very comforting to know that you can "make the
field" when it does happen.
Andy Fultz
Message 8
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| Subject: | engine out logic ?? |
kitfoxmike wrote:
> As far as the engine out logic, this is mine, if the engine isn't up to par don't
take off. Must be why I have a Rotax 912. Have a nice day and above all,
make the flying fun.
[color=darkblue][/color]
I had a 032 quit on me on take off... run up was fine etc.. your logic does not
work in the real world.. I am not sure I have ever met a pilot that knew his
engine was not running right, did nothing to fix it and took off anyway just hoping
it would make it another turn around the pattern.
hmm.. why dont you do a quick NTSB search and then tell me you dont have to worry
about an engine out just because you have a 912...
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117371#117371
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| Subject: | Re: engine out logic ?? |
Sorry guys, I don't understand your logic that you fly a certain way for in case
your engine quits. Yup if mine quit I will fly the damn thing down and land
it somewhere, right into somebodies driveway if I have to. If I'm flying over
water, no brainer I fly it down to the water and steer it right into the shore
and up and into somebodies front yard, but I'll be damned if I'm going to fly
every second of the airplane worrien about the engine quiting. I'll fly it
to the ground and if there is no airport or I can't make the airport I'll fly
it down and land it somehow. so there. Sure I've had my engine quit on take off,
and landed just fine. Do I need to squirm and worry about it in the future,
nope, I'll worry about it when It happens. When it quits and I'm 20 ft off
the ground, well at least I know the terrain and I can quickly find a place to
land it. Lastly, when it's my time to go, there is nothing I can do about it.
Lastly, part two, I'll will never fly a two stroke. sorry again.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117389#117389
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| Subject: | Re: engine out logic ?? |
Saying you will never fly a 2 stroke is your perogotive . I love my 2 stroike light
weight and flies great . I just flew over Cook Inlet Alaska with a 2 stroke
582 and never even thought about it quitting . Have you ever read how many
lycoming's and continental's quit every year in flight . Go fly your 912 and have
fun .
FLyin 2 strokes and lovin it [Laughing]
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
WHEELS Northair Floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117402#117402
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| Subject: | Re: engine out logic ?? |
ok mike I can now understand what you were intending to say.. I too have had an
engine out on takeoff (certified 4 stroke).. it did not end as well as yours..
but I still dont fly like it is gonna quit evey second of the flight.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117406#117406
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| Subject: | Re: More on Cowlings |
Leon,
OK, here is the way my speedster tip are riveted.
>From the trailing edge forward, the first rivet on the top side is exactly 3 1/2
inchs. This puts it pretty close to even with the third rivet in the flaperon
bracket....not quite..maybe 1/2 a rivet off
On the bottom, the first rivet is 3 inchs forward of the trailing edge. So obviously
there is a backing strip aft of the flaperon bracket. Top and bottom.
I might add that the edge of the fiberglass wingtip fits up right next to the flaperon
bracket. It would take a feeler gage to see if there is clearance.
Hope this helps you!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117415#117415
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| Subject: | Re: engine out logic ?? |
The main point of all of this discussion is on to worry about an engine
quitting but to be prepared to deal with it when it does. While there are
areas where there is just no place to land but most of time the pilots just
forgets to fly the airplane.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 8:01 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: engine out logic ??
Saying you will never fly a 2 stroke is your perogotive . I love my 2
stroike light weight and flies great . I just flew over Cook Inlet Alaska
with a 2 stroke 582 and never even thought about it quitting . Have you ever
read how many lycoming's and continental's quit every year in flight . Go
fly your 912 and have fun .
FLyin 2 strokes and lovin it [Laughing]
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
WHEELS Northair Floats
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=117402#117402
Message 14
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| Subject: | engine out logic ?? |
I am not sure I
> have ever met a pilot that knew his engine was not running
> right, did nothing to fix it and took off anyway just hoping
> it would make it another turn around the pattern.
There is an interesting story about China Airlines, an Airbus 380 and a
seat
belt in Germany!
It needed three new engines before it was given clearance to take off.
Two
of the three were more or less running. The third one had the seatbelt
tied
through the front turbine.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
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