Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:03 AM - Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Ken Davy)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: 912 lost some oil??? (kitfoxmike)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Rick)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Ted Palamarek)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:56 AM - Unequal fuel flow (Jacques Voynaud)
7. 07:56 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Paul Seehafer)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
9. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Different heater questions?? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
10. 09:26 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (kitfoxmike)
11. 10:18 AM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (Torgeir Mortensen)
12. 10:38 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (john oakley)
13. 10:40 AM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (Andy Fultz)
14. 02:55 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Noel Loveys)
15. 03:04 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (kitfoxmike)
16. 03:18 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Lowell Fitt)
17. 03:28 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (kitfoxmike)
18. 03:45 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Eric)
19. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Different heater questions?? (Barry West)
20. 04:30 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Barry West)
21. 04:31 PM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (Noel Loveys)
22. 05:14 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue (Noel Loveys)
23. 07:44 PM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (Malcolmbru@aol.com)
24. 08:02 PM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (john oakley)
25. 08:15 PM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM)
26. 10:02 PM - Re: Unequal fuel flow (john oakley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started the
engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft
end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the water pump
runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make
a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is
so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running it without the
line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912 lost some oil??? |
When I changed to the new stick I had the same type of issue, what I did to help
is put a loop at the top of the hose for the vent, loop it up twards the top
cowl, then wire tie it there and then down. No more leak on the vent. I also
been experimenting with oil and I find the Amzoil motorcycle oil to be a very
good oil. No foaming.
Speaking on leaks. I have a leak on my 912 and I swear it was leaking out the
front seal on the drive unit up front. Yesterday I put dye in the oil and flew
it for about an hour. Then I used my black light and found the oil cooler was
the culprit. Leaking right at one of the seams, the prop hit it and threw
it into the seal for the front shaft or flange for the prop. So if you can do
it, put in dye and check it the right way.
One last thing, new engine, higher oil temps until broke in. 280 is on the top
side for high engine temp. They say not to go over this. So if your guage is
correct, you where still ok.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118194#118194
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
The picture looks like it is actually laying against the pipe. Is that
true? If so looks like a might poor design by rotax. Perhaps the line
needs a 45 degree elbow so you can turn it and route the line away from
the pipe. Over time that coolant line is going to fail. Personally I
never cared for hose type clamps on aircraft. Converted mine to
fittings. Lots of work but many advantages. I used hard line where
possible and braided Teflon else where. If you must stick with regular
hose and clamps might take a look at silicon hose. You can get different
sizes, lengths and pre-molded bends.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Davy
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I=92ve started
the
engine and run it a few times and now I=92ve noticed something I don=92t
care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft
end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the water pump
runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make
a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is
so close to the exhaust pipe I don=92t see a way of running it without
the
line pressing against the exhaust system. I=92m wondering what other
builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
6/12/2007 9:42 PM
6/12/2007 9:42 PM
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Ken
My mind is a bit fuzzy but I do recall having to replace fitting under the
engine with ones which had different angles to probably avoid what is
happening to you coolant line. Perhaps some one else remembers this. The
fittings came from Skystar. The original ones in the engine had to be heated
to break the thread sealer. My engine was purchased separately. John McBean
would know the answer to this.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
IV-1200 912UL
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: June 13, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
The picture looks like it is actually laying against the pipe. Is that true?
If so looks like a might poor design by rotax. Perhaps the line needs a 45
degree elbow so you can turn it and route the line away from the pipe. Over
time that coolant line is going to fail. Personally I never cared for hose
type clamps on aircraft. Converted mine to fittings. Lots of work but many
advantages. I used hard line where possible and braided Teflon else where.
If you must stick with regular hose and clamps might take a look at silicon
hose. You can get different sizes, lengths and pre-molded bends.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Davy
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started the
engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't care
for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft end of the
engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the cylinders. The line
that comes out of the port side of the water pump runs directly toward one
of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make a 90 degree bend on the way
to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is so close to the exhaust pipe I
don't see a way of running it without the line pressing against the exhaust
system. I'm wondering what other builders on the list have done to avoid
this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
by AVG Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
6/12/2007 9:42 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Ken,
Looking at my installation, I routed that particular line to the forward
cylinder as in the attached photo. The line to the aft cylinder was the
upper line from the pump spider. In further looking at your picture, I
guess I don't understand what that line is going to. All the upper cylinder
coolant lines terminate at the Spider tank and the lower lines run from the
pump. What fitting does that line run to?
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Davy" <davyken@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:01 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
> Hi all,
>
> I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started the
> engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
> care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft
> end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
> cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the water pump
> runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make
> a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is
> so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running it without the
> line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
> builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
>
> Thanks for your advice,
> Ken Davy
> Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
> Rotax 912
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Unequal fuel flow |
I think this subject has been adressed before but not sure of results=2E
I have a 4 with 912 and 2 - 13 gals wing tanks=2E When I fill both up to c
ap, go flying for an hour or so, check fuel level right after landing, rig
ht tank is down to half and left tank is still full to cap=2E After parked
on the ground for few hours, both tanks equilibrate by cross-flowing=2E I
'm wondering if the engine would run out of gas if the right tank goes emp
ty with the left stiill full=3F Any way to correct this situation=3F
The right tank is equipped with a tygon vent tube to the header tank=2E
Jack V=2E Kitfox 4-1200
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Ken,
I agree with you completely. Rotax should have engineered that better
than they did. But unfortunately we have to deal with it now.
First things first - do not fly your airplane with the hose as shown in
the picture you sent. You are destined to experiencing an engine
failure as it is, so you need to change it as soon as possible.
I heard converting to a metal line will not work long term due to
vibration fatigue on the line, so what I did was installed high temp
resistant silicone hose (napa as I recall had it), and then covered that
with a heat and flame resistant sheathing like they use on race cars
(also available from an auto parts store). It is made to fit right over
the hose, and is typically silver in color. But even after doing all
that I made sure the hose didn't touch any of the exhaust, using hose
clamps and tie wraps to keep it away. As a final measure, I wrapped
the exhaust pipes themselves with race car "header wrap" (also available
at auto parts stores). Doing all this provided three separate measures
of protecting against melting of the hoses.
Might sound like overkilll, but if that coolant hose burns through, you
will quickly lose all your coolant. I've been told a 912 will get you
back to the airport without coolant, but it is going to be expensive to
fix once you get home as you will probably have lots of engine warping
damage.
I would also make a point to handle the oil cooler hoses similarly. Mine
were very close to the front exhaust pipe, so it is a potential problem
as well. In fact it is worse. You probably won't make it back to the
airport without oil....
(I don't have any pictures of my hose installation, but can take some if
you need)
Paul Seehafer
Model IV-1200 912 ul Amphib
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Davy
To: 'Kitfox'
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started
the engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft
end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the water pump
runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make
a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is
so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running it without the
line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Different heater questions?? |
Lloyd,
I rejected that approach because I worry about the failure of the valve in
the closed position.
It seems like someone must have a good solution here.
Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cudnohufsky's
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
All,
I am working through the same problem, my heater core has a smaller inlet
than my cooler so I also feel fluid will travel through the cooler before
the heater core, path of least resistance, has anyone tried puting the valve
on the inlet of the cooler and using it to restrict flow to the cooler and
force flow through the heater core?
Lloyd C
Upper Mi
Mod 5 912ul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Darin,
> My shut off valve is cable activated and is located on the cabin side of
> the
> firewall just ahead of the heater core. I got the valve and the cable at
> a
> NAPA store.
>
> I just think that a lot of the flow still goes through the radiator rather
> than through my heater.
>
>
> Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
> Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
> Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
> Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
> Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:42 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
>
>
> Randy,
>
> I have been contemplating the same thing with my heater setup. In my
> Model
> 3, the builder installed a valve in the supply line as you have done to
> keep
> the cabin from getting hot in the summer. In the winter, it would do fine
> to about 45 degrees as you have stated. The problem was that in the
> winter,
> the engine coolant simply would not get hot enough to heat the cabin below
> this temp. To remedy the problem, he installed a cabin actuated baffle
> over
> the main radiator that he could adjust open or closed or somewhere in
> between to maintain a higher temp from the main radiator. This seemed to
> work well as I flew it in some pretty cold temps (10 to 20 degrees) and it
> kept the cabin fairly comfortable. I guess a thermastat would accomplish
> the same thing and probably easier to install but less controllable.
>
> A question for you: Where have you installed your shut-off valve to the
> heater core? I got looking at the setup and the only place one will go is
> on the engine side of the firewall. That makes it a bit tough to turn on
> the heat inflight if the temps drop. Is there some type of cable actuated
> valve that could be installed with a pull type handle in the cabin to open
> the valve and allow the hot coolant to go through the heater core?
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116231#116231
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
I pulled the cowling this morning and looked at mine. Now is this line going to
the front cylinder on that side. If so, pull the hose and route it direct to
the fitting at the cylinder, meaning go on the other side of the mount(lower part
of mount and tubing, don't go over the top), mine does this and clears the
exhaust by 1/4 inch.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118235#118235
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Unequal fuel flow |
Hi Jack,
I'll think this is caused by a pressure differences between both main
tanks, this can occur if there is difference between the cap's "pitot
tubes" as height or position differences. A very limited flow through the
left system either the vent or the fuel line, -or sometimes a leaky cap
gasket.
At some level in the right tank the fuel should start flowing from the
left system as well.
As your system level out on ground after some "hours", there must be some
kind of restriction in your left main line (?). I'll think they should
level out in around one hour or so, not in a couple of hours (if the A/C
is in level). Must say that I've never made any calculation or test in
this matter, so this assumption is kind of subjective.
A simple flow test from each side might discover a difference between the
two.
The cap gasket is an important issue in our kind of system, make sure they
seal properly -there should be no kind of air leakage.
Good luck.
Torgeir
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:55:37 +0200, Jacques Voynaud
> <jacques.voynaud@cegepat.qc.ca> wrote:
> I think this subject has been adressed before but not sure of results.
> I have a 4 with 912 and 2 - 13 gals wing tanks. When I fill both up to
> cap, go flying for an hour or so, check fuel level right after landing,
> right tank is down to half and left tank is still full to cap. After
> parked on the ground for few hours, both tanks equilibrate by
> cross-flowing. I'm wondering if the engine would run out of gas if the
> right tank goes empty with the left stiill full? Any way to correct this
> situation?
> The right tank is equipped with a tygon vent tube to the header tank.
>
> Jack V. Kitfox 4-1200
--
Torgeir
Kitfox Model II, 1993
Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox
Propeller: IVO UL 366Q
Tromsoe
NORWAY.
Weather in Tromso right now:
http://met.no/troms/index.html
City map of Tromso:
http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
I remember just heating my fittings with a heat gun and turning them to
better place the hose then wrapping them and the exhaust.
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Palamarek
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Ken
My mind is a bit fuzzy but I do recall having to replace fitting under the
engine with ones which had different angles to probably avoid what is
happening to you coolant line. Perhaps some one else remembers this. The
fittings came from Skystar. The original ones in the engine had to be heated
to break the thread sealer. My engine was purchased separately. John McBean
would know the answer to this.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
IV-1200 912UL
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: June 13, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
The picture looks like it is actually laying against the pipe. Is that true?
If so looks like a might poor design by rotax. Perhaps the line needs a 45
degree elbow so you can turn it and route the line away from the pipe. Over
time that coolant line is going to fail. Personally I never cared for hose
type clamps on aircraft. Converted mine to fittings. Lots of work but many
advantages. I used hard line where possible and braided Teflon else where.
If you must stick with regular hose and clamps might take a look at silicon
hose. You can get different sizes, lengths and pre-molded bends.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Davy
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started the
engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't care
for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft end of the
engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the cylinders. The line
that comes out of the port side of the water pump runs directly toward one
of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make a 90 degree bend on the way
to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is so close to the exhaust pipe I
don't see a way of running it without the line pressing against the exhaust
system. I'm wondering what other builders on the list have done to avoid
this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
by AVG Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
6/12/2007 9:42 PM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Unequal fuel flow |
Unequal flow can be caused by unequal lengths of fuel line from the main
tanks to the header tank, unequal pitot pressures on the tank vents and/or
fuel cap gaskets not sealing properly. If all those items check out you
might need to start checking for a restriction in the fuel line. Once you
have your header tank full, venting it back to the main tank is not
necessary. You can put a valve in that vent line and make it part of yout
preflight to "check header tank full" then operate off your main tank vents.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jacques Voynaud
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:56 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Unequal fuel flow
I think this subject has been adressed before but not sure of results.
I have a 4 with 912 and 2 - 13 gals wing tanks. When I fill both up to
cap, go flying for an hour or so, check fuel level right after landing,
right tank is down to half and left tank is still full to cap. After parked
on the ground for few hours, both tanks equilibrate by cross-flowing. I'm
wondering if the engine would run out of gas if the right tank goes empty
with the left stiill full? Any way to correct this situation?
The right tank is equipped with a tygon vent tube to the header tank.
Jack V. Kitfox 4-1200
Message 14
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Lowell:
I notice you also have RTV (Red) on your rear muffler spring buy not on the
front one. I noticed the same thing on Ken's picture this morning but yours
has the RTV on only one spring. I have being trying to figure out the
reason for this RTV. It can't possibly to make the springs quiet because
you couldn't possibly hear the springs over the noise of the engine.
Still curious.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:12 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Looking at my installation, I routed that particular line to
> the forward
> cylinder as in the attached photo. The line to the aft
> cylinder was the
> upper line from the pump spider. In further looking at your
> picture, I
> guess I don't understand what that line is going to. All the
> upper cylinder
> coolant lines terminate at the Spider tank and the lower
> lines run from the
> pump. What fitting does that line run to?
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park, CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
> 1998 850 hrs.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Davy" <davyken@comcast.net>
> To: "'Kitfox'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:01 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine.
> I've started the
> > engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
> > care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the
> bottom aft
> > end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
> > cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the
> water pump
> > runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line
> needs to make
> > a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit
> from the pump is
> > so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running
> it without the
> > line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
> > builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
> >
> > Thanks for your advice,
> > Ken Davy
> > Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
> > Rotax 912
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
putting sili on the springs are suppose to be fore keeping vibration from breaking
the springs. At least that is what I was told when I ran snowmobiles. Thing
is they rust and break, even if it had sili on them. So I quite doing it.
Mine broke and I wanted to fly, so I brought out the wire and safety wired my
mufflers on, no problems sense.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118301#118301
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Noel,
I have it on both, It is on the back side of one - out of view. Regarding
rust. I hope to never see it in the engine compartment of my IV.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>
> Lowell:
>
> I notice you also have RTV (Red) on your rear muffler spring buy not on
> the
> front one. I noticed the same thing on Ken's picture this morning but
> yours
> has the RTV on only one spring. I have being trying to figure out the
> reason for this RTV. It can't possibly to make the springs quiet because
> you couldn't possibly hear the springs over the noise of the engine.
>
> Still curious.
>
> Noel
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Lowell Fitt
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:12 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>>
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Looking at my installation, I routed that particular line to
>> the forward
>> cylinder as in the attached photo. The line to the aft
>> cylinder was the
>> upper line from the pump spider. In further looking at your
>> picture, I
>> guess I don't understand what that line is going to. All the
>> upper cylinder
>> coolant lines terminate at the Spider tank and the lower
>> lines run from the
>> pump. What fitting does that line run to?
>>
>> Lowell Fitt
>> Cameron Park, CA
>> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
>> 1998 850 hrs.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ken Davy" <davyken@comcast.net>
>> To: "'Kitfox'" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:01 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>>
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine.
>> I've started the
>> > engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
>> > care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the
>> bottom aft
>> > end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
>> > cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the
>> water pump
>> > runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line
>> needs to make
>> > a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit
>> from the pump is
>> > so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running
>> it without the
>> > line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
>> > builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your advice,
>> > Ken Davy
>> > Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
>> > Rotax 912
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
sorry to say the springs are the first to get the rust. nice note, the safety
wire isn't rusting, doing just fine with about 350hrs in the location on the pics
in this thread. also I have no other rust, just the springs.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=118310#118310
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Noel,
the RTV has nothing to do with noise or vibration or keeping the springs
from breaking. The fact is that exhaust springs will eventually break. The
RTV is there to keep the pieces together and from going who knows where.
This RTV trick is a must on pusher aircraft to keep the spring pieces from
going through the prop and damaging it.
Eric
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Different heater questions?? |
If you run the heater core in parallel with the radiator, some of the
coolant is going to flow through the core. The coolant has such a large
thermal mass compared to air that it is unlikely that there is significant
temperature change in the coolant as it goes through the core. I use a four
inch fan and because of the large amounts of leaks into the cabin, the
heater does not have much effect.
I would recomment a more powerful and effective fan or be like me and don't
fly much when the temperature gets below 50 F.
Barry West, Model IV with 912 S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Lloyd,
> I rejected that approach because I worry about the failure of the valve in
> the closed position.
>
> It seems like someone must have a good solution here.
>
> Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
> Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
> Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
> Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
> Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cudnohufsky's
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:38 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
>
>
> All,
> I am working through the same problem, my heater core has a smaller inlet
> than my cooler so I also feel fluid will travel through the cooler before
> the heater core, path of least resistance, has anyone tried puting the
> valve
>
> on the inlet of the cooler and using it to restrict flow to the cooler and
> force flow through the heater core?
> Lloyd C
> Upper Mi
> Mod 5 912ul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
>
>
>> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>>
>> Darin,
>> My shut off valve is cable activated and is located on the cabin side of
>> the
>> firewall just ahead of the heater core. I got the valve and the cable at
>> a
>> NAPA store.
>>
>> I just think that a lot of the flow still goes through the radiator
>> rather
>> than through my heater.
>>
>>
>> Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
>> Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
>> Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
>> Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
>> Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:42 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Different heater questions??
>>
>>
>> Randy,
>>
>> I have been contemplating the same thing with my heater setup. In my
>> Model
>> 3, the builder installed a valve in the supply line as you have done to
>> keep
>> the cabin from getting hot in the summer. In the winter, it would do
>> fine
>> to about 45 degrees as you have stated. The problem was that in the
>> winter,
>> the engine coolant simply would not get hot enough to heat the cabin
>> below
>> this temp. To remedy the problem, he installed a cabin actuated baffle
>> over
>> the main radiator that he could adjust open or closed or somewhere in
>> between to maintain a higher temp from the main radiator. This seemed to
>> work well as I flew it in some pretty cold temps (10 to 20 degrees) and
>> it
>> kept the cabin fairly comfortable. I guess a thermastat would accomplish
>> the same thing and probably easier to install but less controllable.
>>
>> A question for you: Where have you installed your shut-off valve to the
>> heater core? I got looking at the setup and the only place one will go
>> is
>> on the engine side of the firewall. That makes it a bit tough to turn on
>> the heat inflight if the temps drop. Is there some type of cable
>> actuated
>> valve that could be installed with a pull type handle in the cabin to
>> open
>> the valve and allow the hot coolant to go through the heater core?
>>
>> --------
>> Darin Hawkes
>> Series 7 (under Construction)
>> 914 Turbo
>> Ogden, Utah
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=116231#116231
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
MessageI don't have quite as bad a problem as you but I applied a lot of
heat shield of stainless steel to protect hoses from the exhaust pipes.
I do not recommend wrapping exhaust pipes, it will defnitely make them
fail sooner.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: john oakley
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
I remember just heating my fittings with a heat gun and turning them
to better place the hose then wrapping them and the exhaust.
John Oakley
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Palamarek
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:38 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Ken
My mind is a bit fuzzy but I do recall having to replace fitting under
the engine with ones which had different angles to probably avoid what
is happening to you coolant line. Perhaps some one else remembers this.
The fittings came from Skystar. The original ones in the engine had to
be heated to break the thread sealer. My engine was purchased
separately. John McBean would know the answer to this.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton
IV-1200 912UL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: June 13, 2007 7:58 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
The picture looks like it is actually laying against the pipe. Is that
true? If so looks like a might poor design by rotax. Perhaps the line
needs a 45 degree elbow so you can turn it and route the line away from
the pipe. Over time that coolant line is going to fail. Personally I
never cared for hose type clamps on aircraft. Converted mine to
fittings. Lots of work but many advantages. I used hard line where
possible and braided Teflon else where. If you must stick with regular
hose and clamps might take a look at silicon hose. You can get different
sizes, lengths and pre-molded bends.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Davy
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:02 AM
To: 'Kitfox'
Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
Hi all,
I have a Kitfox Classic IV with a Rotax 912 UL engine. I've started
the engine and run it a few times and now I've noticed something I don't
care for. The water pump for the cooling system is on the bottom aft
end of the engine. Lines come out of the pump and run up to the
cylinders. The line that comes out of the port side of the water pump
runs directly toward one of the exhaust pipes. That line needs to make
a 90 degree bend on the way to the cylinders. The exit from the pump is
so close to the exhaust pipe I don't see a way of running it without the
line pressing against the exhaust system. I'm wondering what other
builders on the list have done to avoid this conflict.
Thanks for your advice,
Ken Davy
Kitfox Classic IV N1701S
Rotax 912
by AVG Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
6/12/2007 9:42 PM
Message 21
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| Subject: | Unequal fuel flow |
you're right, it has been discussed before... I think the consensus was
that
you may be flying with the left wing a bit low. It would only have to
be an
inch or two low to cause the drop as you have described.
My mod 111-A does the same thing and quite often after landing I'll find
the
right tank empty and the left around half full...( 30- 45 min of flying
time
remaining).
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jacques
Voynaud
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:26 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Unequal fuel flow
I think this subject has been adressed before but not sure of results.
I have a 4 with 912 and 2 - 13 gals wing tanks. When I fill both up to
cap,
go flying for an hour or so, check fuel level right after landing, right
tank is down to half and left tank is still full to cap. After parked on
the
ground for few hours, both tanks equilibrate by cross-flowing. I'm
wondering
if the engine would run out of gas if the right tank goes empty with the
left stiill full? Any way to correct this situation?
The right tank is equipped with a tygon vent tube to the header tank.
Jack V. Kitfox 4-1200
Message 22
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue |
Thanks Lowell:
Ken has since sent me a note informing me that the RTV is supposed to
protect and increase the life of the spring... I haven't had any problems
with my springs but I may give it a try any way.
I can't remember commenting on rust but I agree... a plane is one of the
worst places to find that stuff!
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:47 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 Plumbing Issue
>
>
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Noel,
>
> I have it on both, It is on the back side of one - out of
> view. Regarding
> rust. I hope to never see it in the engine compartment of my IV.
>
> Lowell
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Unequal fuel flow |
I also have un even fuel flow and wore about it I have a 582 with E box and
my left tank drains first my vent tub is on the right side and after my left
tank is dry and the right side gets low I can see the vent tub diping air down
tword the header tank. running out with fuel on board sure would suck. I
sometimes wonder if I worries to much mal
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Unequal fuel flow |
I have to jump in here you guys, many of you were not in the group in the
beginning. Ok, many years ago, but we did loose several planes in the group,
that went down due to fuel starvation and then burned because there was a
full tank. You can cause one of the tanks to "port" and not draw, thus
causing fuel starvation. The vent line needs to be eliminated or valved so
the engine is forced to draw from the tanks. A control valve on both sides
is a plus if you make sure not to allow the fuel line to wow uphill as it is
turning toward the tank.
I hate loosing friends, be careful
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Unequal fuel flow
I also have un even fuel flow and wore about it I have a 582 with E box and
my left tank drains first my vent tub is on the right side and after my left
tank is dry and the right side gets low I can see the vent tub diping air
down tword the header tank. running out with fuel on board sure would suck.
I sometimes wonder if I worries to much mal
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Unequal fuel flow |
In a message dated 6/13/2007 11:03:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
john@leptron.com writes:
=9Cport=9D and not draw, thus causing fuel starvation
please elaborate on this a little moor my vent line comes from the header
tank behind the seat and is just a little higher than the wing tank's my
vented factory gas caps are not equal in venting capacity . that is when I
blow
threw them moor air comes threw one then the other? switching them makes no
difference
malcolm KF2 582
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com
.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Unequal fuel flow |
Malcolm,
I will try not to confuse, there is two problems, one the vent line and two
the tanks draining differently.
The vent line is only to get the gas (air) out of the header tank. If the
vent is left open, there is a possibility that the header tanks could empty
and the engine will suck air through the vent line.
Now, let me explain that, each of the fuel tanks has a line that has a loose
90 degree turn to get to the tank (just behind your head), this turn is
usually left fairly loose or large so the wing can fold with out tearing the
line out. This half loop can if left too loose, can get a bubble in it
during a turn. This bubble can cause a "vapor lock" and the tank will stop
feeding. If it stops feeding the header tank empties and sucks air from the
vent line.
If the vent line is closed (valved) the engine is forced to suck from one
tank or the other.
My vent line is run down under the aircraft and ties to a normal fuel drain
like under the wing. I vent or drain this every time I check fuel quality.
But.. If you have a vapor lock, you can use the fuel in one tank and still
run out of gas with one tank still full.
Another problem, is, if you fuel both tanks and then sit on a side hill or
slope of a normal parking lot, the fuel will transfer to the lower wing and
run out across the wing, staining it.
Answer, add valves to the two wing tanks.
Also a 12 volt booster pump, just like the big guys...i have one under the
seat..
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Malcolmbru@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Unequal fuel flow
In a message dated 6/13/2007 11:03:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
john@leptron.com writes:
"port" and not draw, thus causing fuel starvation
please elaborate on this a little moor my vent line comes from the header
tank behind the seat and is just a little higher than the wing tank's my
vented factory gas caps are not equal in venting capacity . that is when I
blow threw them moor air comes threw one then the other? switching them
makes no difference
malcolm KF2 582
_____
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