Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Lynn Mattesons trip (fox5flyer)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: Jabiru 2200 Install Photos (again) (DanM)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Noel Loveys)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: Landing light lense??? (n85ae)
5. 06:46 AM - Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (kitfoxmike)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: Lynn Mattesons trip (kitfoxmike)
7. 07:43 AM - Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru (kurt schrader)
8. 08:01 AM - Re: Lynn Matteson's trip (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
9. 08:16 AM - Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru (DanM)
10. 08:18 AM - Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru (Michel Verheughe)
11. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Noel Loveys)
12. 09:09 AM - Re: Landing light lense??? (darinh)
13. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Landing light lense??? (kurt schrader)
14. 10:00 AM - Lynn Matteson's Trip (fox5flyer)
15. 10:07 AM - Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (kitfoxmike)
16. 10:12 AM - Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip (kitfoxmike)
17. 10:19 AM - Re: Landing light lense??? (darinh)
18. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (kenneth schooley)
19. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV ()
20. 01:02 PM - Re: rotax pulse pump leaking weep hole: UPDATE fixed (Tom Jones)
21. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (JC Propellerdesign)
22. 01:18 PM - Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (wingnut)
23. 02:00 PM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV ()
24. 02:03 PM - I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (Lynn Matteson)
25. 02:39 PM - Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Tom Jones)
26. 02:40 PM - Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (Rueb, Duane)
27. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip (Noel Loveys)
28. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Noel Loveys)
29. 03:51 PM - OT..Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Noel Loveys)
30. 04:05 PM - Re: Lynn Matteson's trip (Lynn Matteson)
31. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip (Lynn Matteson)
32. 04:28 PM - Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip (kitfoxmike)
33. 04:29 PM - Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip (kitfoxmike)
34. 04:34 PM - I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (fox5flyer)
35. 04:57 PM - Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (wingnut)
36. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Noel Loveys)
37. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Lowell Fitt)
38. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: S5 912S overheating - cowling? (David Estapa)
39. 07:27 PM - Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (Don G)
40. 07:58 PM - Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (jdmcbean)
41. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (jdmcbean)
42. 09:58 PM - Re: Re: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV (Guy Buchanan)
43. 11:33 PM - Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic (Michel Verheughe)
44. 11:40 PM - Re: Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru (Michel Verheughe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lynn Mattesons trip |
Lynn broke ground at Brigham City UT yesterday morning at 0600mt and
flew through the recommended pass at 9k. He said he could have flow
lower, but the pass was narrow and he felt a bit intimidated looking out
at the canyon walls so close. He said it didn't take long to get
through, especially with a good tailwind and soon hooked up with I80
east of Salt Lake City. Although it was a bit bumpy, he was getting a
43mph tailwind and it wasn't long before he landed at Laramie WY for a
pit stop where the wind was 240/15G2, but landing was uneventful. Total
370 miles.
At the Laramie airport he saw a photo on the wall of a Kitfox Speedster
with a notation on it that said "Thanks for all your help!" and it was
signed by C.O. Denny, Skip Cedergrist, and Patrick Kahlian. Not sure of
the spelling because he was reading signatures. Anybody know about this
photo?
Next stop was Ogallala NE for a short pit stop at 216 miles and the
continuing stiff tailwind was making his travel time very efficient.
Final stop for the day was Kearney NE where he landed without incident
for RON, tied down, got the courtesy car, and drove the 7 miles into
town for a motel, good steak and a Margarita that, after the long
flight, nearly knocked him out! Anyway, it was a good fly-day that took
him 743 miles in 6.2 hours.
Today he's thinking that he can probably make it a final leg to home at
Grass Lake MI, but he's in no hurry and if he doesn't get the continued
tailwinds, no big deal. He'll just grab another motel, steak,
Margarita, and relax.
More to come.
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of
immortality."
-- John Quincy Adams
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 2200 Install Photos (again) |
Thanks Guy for the recommendation, I will check the rv site so I see how they do
it.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119346#119346
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
You're spot-on Luis. My misunderstanding of your comments.
The only difference is the arm for the nose wheel will be negative (
datum
between the nose and mains). You are also correct in saying the plane
won't
really care as long as the CG is within limits.
If there is a problem with the plane flying straight an level it may be
best
to have a heart to heart with it and it should be told in the strongest
terms to, "Fly right!" ;-)
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
> Classic IV
>
>
>
>
> > Actually, I think the airplane would know the difference. a
> big bunch of
> > weight in the nose gear under the engine, no tail wheel
> eleven feet back and
> > the aft positioned maingear would definitely alter the CG -
> nice to know
> > where it actually is and and if it is still in the
> envelope. From the post,
> > it sounds like it has moved forward a bit.
> >
> > I think he is asking if anyone has the arm lengths for the
> aft positioned
> > landing gear and the new nose wheel out front for the re-weighing
> > calculations and the form for plugging in all the numbers.
>
>
> That's not what I meant. In the original post, Francisco
> mentioned that he has the manual which has W&B procedures for
> the tail dragger configuration. I'm just pointing out that
> the same manual applys for the nose wheel configuration. Of
> course, his balance has changed. In fact, given his inability
> to flair on landing, I'd say he's flying very nose heavy. But
> the aerodynamics haven't changed so same procedures apply and
> the datum plane hasn't moved.
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119278#119278
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Landing light lense??? |
With the light bar, and the white belly the reflected light provides great
ground illumination during the flare. However, most time at night I wheel
land it.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119365#119365
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
I am surprised that you actually flew the plan without reduing the weight and balance.
Now with that said, I agree, you need to do the math. And to make sure
you have it right and you believe you found the center of gravity, take and
jack the plane off the wheels at the point you believe the CG is at. The plane
better balance, not drop at the front or back. My feeling is you are too nose
heavy, and until you get some weight shifted to the rear, you will not be
able to properly flair to land. Good luck and fly safe. Of course the jacking
and double checking the CG is optional, so is doing a check of the engine and
airframe before flight. After all, you are only above ground when flying,
and It's not too far down to the ground, or is it???
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119370#119370
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Mattesons trip |
I hope he stays below 10000 MSL.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119371#119371
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru |
Dan,
This also depends upon what viscosity oil you use and
if you have a pressure relief port. Don't know if the
2200 has one....
My pressure can get as high as 90 psi cold if I use
straight 50 weight oil. A multi weight oil can reduce
the cold pressure, if it is acceptable for the 2200.
Michel, what weight oil do you use in Norway?
Kurt Schrader
S-5/NSI turbo
CAP 140 prop
Florida and Panama
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's trip |
Guy, we are all still gainfully employed and maybe a little anotomically challenged.
As Lynn has learned and those out here know the "West" is big and the notion
of a 600 mile day trip across the desert is somewhat daunting. We are more
comfortable tackling 10000' mountain passes.
I am impressed that Lowell and his gaggle make the Idaho trip a couple of times
each year and is planning a trip to the Utah Desert in September.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>
> At 08:18 AM 6/18/2007, you wrote:
> >Lynn was within 20 miles of 6 Kitfoxes while he was at Brigham. Two
> >in Ogden, one in Brigham and three here in Logan.
>
> So why weren't you guys at Cameron Park? Well? ;-)
>
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Guy, we are all still gainfully employed and maybe a little anotomically challenged.
As Lynn has learned and those out here know the "West" is big
and the notion of a 600 mile day trip across the desert is somewhat daunting.
We are more comfortable tackling 10000' mountain passes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am impressed that Lowell and his gaggle make the Idaho trip a couple of
times each year and is planning a trip to the Utah Desert in September.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
> _
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru |
Michael & Kurt
Thanks for the information, My Jabiru 2200 is new, but a few years old. I've not
started the engine yet, just cranked it with the starter to
check things out. I plan to actualy start the engine in two week. The engine has
a relief valve as well as a oil cooler. I'm using Shell
mineral for the engine break in period. Seems from you guys are saying is the cold
oil pressure is ok. I'll find out for sure when I actualy
start the engine. I don't want to fry my nice new engine.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119400#119400
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p6020013_105.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Start up oil pressure, Jabiru |
> From: kurt schrader [smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com]
> Michel, what weight oil do you use in Norway?
Well, after living in Spain for some years, my favourite is, of course, olive oil
but ... oh, you mean, the engine? AeroShell 15W50, Sir! Works well winter as
summer!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Mike:
They say you should learn something new everyday. Today is definitely
no
exception.
You referred to jacking a plane up at the suspected CG... This sounds
useful if you can tell me how. There are no hard points on my plane any
where near the CG. Lifting by the chines probably won't work either
because
the CG will be above the jacking point and won't balance there either.
We used to lift float planes off the dolly in the hangar using an
overhead
crane and a special spreader bar which attached to either the wing
attach
points or specially installed lifting rings. I always found it was
easier
to lift if I calculated the CG before starting the lift. of course when
you
took the plane off the floats the CG changed dramatically but with the
use
of a couple of guy ropes I was able to single handed change from flats
to
wheels.... going the other way (installing floats) required more help
and a
dictionary of four letter words!
The last two times I put my 'Fox on floats I lifted it from the rafters
in
the garage using three points and three small block and tackle. Using
that
set up knowing the CG before starting wouldn't have helped at all.
The only way I can see to find the CG is by mathematical calculation...
Level the plane, weigh the muggly ugger and jump head first into the
math.
If you think you've messed up get someone to check your measurements
and/or
math... I'm sure there are enough people who would be happy to do that.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kitfoxmike
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:16 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
> Classic IV
>
>
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> I am surprised that you actually flew the plan without
> reduing the weight and balance. Now with that said, I agree,
> you need to do the math. And to make sure you have it right
> and you believe you found the center of gravity, take and
> jack the plane off the wheels at the point you believe the CG
> is at. The plane better balance, not drop at the front or
> back. My feeling is you are too nose heavy, and until you
> get some weight shifted to the rear, you will not be able to
> properly flair to land. Good luck and fly safe. Of course
> the jacking and double checking the CG is optional, so is
> doing a check of the engine and airframe before flight.
> After all, you are only above ground when flying, and It's
> not too far down to the ground, or is it???
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> building
> RV7a
> slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
> "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA
> then you're not flying enough"
> Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Landing light lense??? |
The taildragger does pose a bit of a problem when installing landing and taxi lights.
I have seen it done a number of times and Guy is right, you want one pointing
down for use as a landing light and the other for taxi. The typical incandescent
lights don't work as well for this but the new HID are great and they
use far less power. As stated, landing lights on taildraggers are tough but
when I am flying landing at night, it is always at a very well lighted airport...in
these conditions, the landing and taxi lights fill more of a collision
avoidance roll than anything. I am also going to install a switch to go from
constant to pulse mode. If you have ever seen a plane coming in with the pulsing
landing lights, you know they are much more visible than just strobes even
during the day.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119420#119420
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Landing light lense??? |
Hi Darin,
If I remember correctly, you can not turn a HID light
on and off rapidly or pulse it. You might check that
before you install the pulse system.
Kurt Schrader
S-5/NSI turbo
Florida and panama
Do not archive
--- darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
...... I am also going to
> install a switch to go from constant to pulse mode.
> If you have ever seen a plane coming in with the
> pulsing landing lights, you know they are much more
> visible than just strobes even during the day.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Lynn Matteson's Trip |
As a relatively low time pilot and builder of the airplane he learned to
fly
in, everything Lynn has done so far should be congratulated. It took a
lot
of guts to do what he has done and I feel we owe him encouragement,
nothing
else.
"Those who pick fault are generally those with the most to carry."
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lynn Mattesons trip
<customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> I hope he stays below 10000 MSL.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> building
> RV7a
> slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
> "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're
not
flying enough"
> Do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Not having done this on a fox, here is an example of trying. Take the doors off
and run a strap through the fuse and out to the tips and the up to a lift in
the rafters, since the cg would more than likely be in that area, I think generally
12 inches back from the front of the wing, but just guessing right now,
need to check the paper work in my plane. I suppose you could lift right at
the rib at the tips. I've lifted one side for installing a scale in this location
when putting the scale under the wheel when I did weight and balance.
I build RC airplanes and fly them, been doing this since 1991. I found it pretty
convenient to have a span from the factory where the cg was and made sure that
the model balanced before flying them and this is how we did it, lift at the
cg. On the nose wheel planes I would put the cg as far back(tail heavy) as
I could and then when landing I would hold the nose off the ground all the way
back to the pits. Really impressed a lot of people. After all most never made
the runway, they ended up in the grass, and here I was landing on center line
and taxi with the front wheel off the ground.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119443#119443
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip |
I think the only fault that has been brought up is his going over 10000Ft. MSL.
I think we are concerned that he is breaking a rule and that WILL get his lycense
suspended. I would like to see him continue to fly. He is an inspiration
to us all.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119446#119446
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Landing light lense??? |
Kurt,
You may be right for many systems but a company here in Ogden, Utah (www.XeVision.com) has a system that pulses the HID lights very well. These guys are the OEM supplier of landing and taxi lights for the Diamond Twinstar and for the brand new Quest Kodiak so they have gained FAA certification on their lighting system. I stopped by their hanger last week and talked to them about the setup...I must say, these little lights put out a ton of light for the power consumption required! With both lights on, the current draw is approximately 7 amps and with them pulsing, the steady state current draw is slightly lower, around 5 amps.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119449#119449
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
A few things to remember, a new weight and balance is easy to compute, safe
flying (and landing) require a balanced aircraft, and the FAA requires a
current weight and balance to be aboard the acft.
Happy and safe flying, Ken
>From: "kitfoxmike" <customtrans@qwest.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:46:19 -0700
>
>
>I am surprised that you actually flew the plan without reduing the weight
>and balance. Now with that said, I agree, you need to do the math. And to
>make sure you have it right and you believe you found the center of
>gravity, take and jack the plane off the wheels at the point you believe
>the CG is at. The plane better balance, not drop at the front or back. My
>feeling is you are too nose heavy, and until you get some weight shifted to
>the rear, you will not be able to properly flair to land. Good luck and
>fly safe. Of course the jacking and double checking the CG is optional, so
>is doing a check of the engine and airframe before flight. After all, you
>are only above ground when flying, and It's not too far down to the ground,
>or is it???
>
>--------
>kitfoxmike
>model IV, 1200
>speedster
>912ul
>building
>RV7a
>slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
>"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not
>flying enough"
>Do not archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119370#119370
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Dont miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from Microsoft
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are always located a set
distance fore and aft, why can't one simply calculate weight and balance by examining
relative weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under all
the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a certain percentage
of total weight to remain inside CG envelope? I know I'm probably missing something
here (this being my first build), but what is it?
John Sandt / KF7 / Trigear / Corvair / BRS / Ridgecrest, CA (land of fruits and
nuts)
<<Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for <<Classic IV<<The
only way I can see to find the CG is by mathematical <<calculation... Level
the plane, weigh the muggly ugger and jump <<head first into the math.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: rotax pulse pump leaking weep hole: UPDATE fixed |
I moved the pulse pump from the fire wall to the motor mount under the carbs.
I replaced the 22 inch rubber line I was using with 11 inches of clear urathane
pulse line. This morning I ran the engine on the ground for about 20 minutes
with several minutes at full power then flew for 2.2 hours. The weeping fuel
pump is fixed. there is no sign of fuel or oil on the bottom of the pump.
I would have never figured this out without the help of the list. The old installation
was according to the skystar classic four construction manual and my
Rotax engine installation manual says the line should not be more than 20 inches,
believe it or not.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503, Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119483#119483
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Sure you can do it this way, (this is the normal way)
just make sure that the plane is in the correct angle it should be
weighted.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: josandt@verizon.net
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
Classic IV
I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are always
located a set distance fore and aft, why can't one simply calculate
weight and balance by examining relative weights on the wheels? Why
can't you just put scales under all the wheels, then say nose wheel
weight must not exceed a certain percentage of total weight to remain
inside CG envelope? I know I'm probably missing something here (this
being my first build), but what is it?
John Sandt / KF7 / Trigear / Corvair / BRS / Ridgecrest, CA (land of
fruits and nuts)
<<Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
<<Classic IV<<The only way I can see to find the CG is by mathematical
<<calculation... Level the plane, weigh the muggly ugger and jump <<head
first into the math.=C3=82
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
> I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are always located a set
distance fore and aft, why can't one simply calculate weight and balance by
examining relative weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under
all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a certain percentage
of total weight to remain inside CG envelope? I know I'm probably missing something
here (this being my first build), but what is it?
How do you figure out that percentage? Also, are you going to drive the kitfox
up on scales every time your take off weight changes? If you follow the procedure
detailed in the manual (and summerised by Noel earlier) then you can figure
any changes to your CG with just a little math. It's really very easy.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119491#119491
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Weight on front wheel divided by total vehicle weight is a VERY simple fraction
that even a small child can do. It's only one operation on a simple calculator
(something even I can do!). And since ALL Kitfoxes of the same model should
share these weight proportions, it would be very easy for comparison. I'm not
suggesting that formal weight and balance should be shortcut, only that it might
be a very simple matter to determine what part of the envelope one was operating
in (no slide rule and measuring tape required). No slings, jacks, fulcrums,
nuclear reactors, or atom smashers. Is it actually "the normal method" as
another kitfox lister has said?
John Sandt/KF7/Tri/BRS/Corvair/Ridgecrest,CA
From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV
> I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are always located a set
distance fore and aft, why can't one simply calculate weight and balance by
examining relative weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under
all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a certain percentage
of total weight to remain inside CG envelope? I know I'm probably missing something
here (this being my first build), but what is it?
How do you figure out that percentage? Also, are you going to drive the kitfox
up on scales every time your take off weight changes? If you follow the procedure
detailed in the manual (and summerised by Noel earlier) then you can figure
any changes to your CG with just a little math. It's really very easy.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119491#119491
Message 24
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| Subject: | I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Hi gang-
I made it back today to home in Michigan...6.2 hours of flying (from
Kearney, Nebraska), and 823 miles, for a whopping 132 miles per hour
average, thanks to a 40-50 (at times) mph tailwind.
More details after I pay attention to this gin and tonic that has my
name on it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/293+ hrs
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Francisco,
The old Skystar company built and flew a version of the classic 4 with a nose wheel option before they went out of business. It was called the "Lite Squared". While the Center of gravity envelope is most likely the same as the Classic 4, they probably did some flight testing to confirm the CG envelope and loading limits for that plane. It might be worth your time to contact Kitfox Aircraft LLC http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/ and ask if they have the weight and balance forms and instructions for weighing that model and computing the empty CG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503, Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119507#119507
Message 26
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| Subject: | I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Lynners:
Glad to hear and see that you made it! What a trip!
Voice line is not available here at this time.
Will be in touch, Duanesky
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic
Hi gang-
I made it back today to home in Michigan...6.2 hours of flying (from
Kearney, Nebraska), and 823 miles, for a whopping 132 miles per hour
average, thanks to a 40-50 (at times) mph tailwind.
More details after I pay attention to this gin and tonic that has my
name on it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/293+ hrs
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip |
Hearsay! HEARSAY!
We all know none of us wouldn't break the rules. None of us would fly too
high, too low,too fast or too slow.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it!!
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kitfoxmike
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:41 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip
>
>
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> I think the only fault that has been brought up is his going
> over 10000Ft. MSL. I think we are concerned that he is
> breaking a rule and that WILL get his lycense suspended. I
> would like to see him continue to fly. He is an inspiration
> to us all.
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
You could do it that way... Only as long as the weight on the mains
don't
change. If you did it that way your W&B wouldn=92t match legislated
specs and
you could be the only one who would know if the plane was ever in
balance.
The aircraft are considered to be balanced by the location of the Centre
of
Gravity (CG)along the length of the aircraft. (longitudinal axis).
Airplanes are given an operating envelope for the CG by their designers.
Determining exactly where the empty CG is is one of those things you
will
have to calculate before the first flight. Then in the interests of
good
airmanship it is recommended that you do another W&B before every flight
including things like the amount of fuel carried and the weight of
pilots,
passengers and sundry fishing/camping gear ;-). All this is done
through
simple arithmetic. The only time the aircraft may need to be weighed is
when the first empty weight CG is calculated.
The calculation of the location of the CG is made with the use of a
Datum
line. The datum line is just a reference point from which to make the
measurements along the longitudinal axis of the airplane. Some planes
have
the datum so many inches in front of the nosewheel, some at the fire
wall
and some at the leading edge of the wing. I think there is one (C172 ?)
that has the datum at the front of the spinner.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> josandt@verizon.net
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:13 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight &
> balance for Classic IV
>
>
>
> I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are
> always located a set distance fore and aft, why can't one
> simply calculate weight and balance by examining relative
> weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under
> all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a
> certain percentage of total weight to remain inside CG
> envelope? I know I'm probably missing something here (this
> being my first build), but what is it?
>
> John Sandt / KF7 / Trigear / Corvair / BRS / Ridgecrest, CA
> (land of fruits and nuts)
>
> <<Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight &
> balance for <<Classic IV<<The only way I can see to find the
> CG is by mathematical <<calculation... Level the plane, weigh
> the muggly ugger and jump <<head first into the math.=C2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
Luis I like the idea of driving the plane up on the scales before every
flight... I'm on floats :-)
Not only that, on wheels my weight would disappear from the plane when I
got
out to read the scales :-)
Why didn't I think of that???
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
> Classic IV
>
>
>
>
> > I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are
> always located a set distance fore and aft, why can't one
> simply calculate weight and balance by examining relative
> weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under
> all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a
> certain percentage of total weight to remain inside CG
> envelope? I know I'm probably missing something here (this
> being my first build), but what is it?
>
>
> How do you figure out that percentage? Also, are you going to
> drive the kitfox up on scales every time your take off weight
> changes? If you follow the procedure detailed in the manual
> (and summerised by Noel earlier) then you can figure any
> changes to your CG with just a little math. It's really very easy.
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119491#119491
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's trip |
Damn...wish I had known that, John...I spent Sunday watching the
Nascar race, and some golf.
I got out of BMC pretty easily, I thought....no winds, and just a big
circle on my climb-out, up to about 7,000 as I recall, before turning
into...or rather, "over" the pass, climbing all the way 'til over the
reservior, where I turned south. Other than having to look into the
sun, the flight out of the Salt Lake area was pretty easy to handle,
but I DID have some concern, being new to mountain/rocks/hills. etc.
Hope I learned something in the process.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/293+ hrs
do not archive
On Jun 18, 2007, at 11:18 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> I wish I had checked my mail yesterday. Lynn was within 20 miles
> of 6 Kitfoxes while he was at Brigham. Two in Ogden, one in
> Brigham and three here in Logan. We could maybe put together a
> gaggle and lead him through the mountains. While the peaks east of
> Brigham would appear imposing they are easily managed and then
> there is nothing to slow him down.
>
> When three of us flew to OSH in our Kitfoxes we took essentially
> the same route with the most intimidating part of the trip being
> the ascending to altitude before turning east.
>
> John Kerr
> Logan UT
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip |
Guess that I oughtta fess up....I had arranged beforehand to have a
private pilot waiting at the onset of the higher altitude flights,
and let HIM do the over 10,000-foot altitudes. He would hitch a ride
back home with local flying buddies....that's MY story and I'm
stickin' to it!
On Jun 19, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Hearsay! HEARSAY!
>
> We all know none of us wouldn't break the rules. None of us would
> fly too high, too low,too fast or too slow.
>
> That's my story and I'm sticking with it!!
>
>
> <Signature1.jpg>
>
>
> Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
> Campbellton, Newfoundland,
> Canada
> Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
> Aerocet 1100s
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> > kitfoxmike
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:41 PM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip
> >
> >
> > <customtrans@qwest.net>
> >
> > I think the only fault that has been brought up is his going
> > over 10000Ft. MSL. I think we are concerned that he is
> > breaking a rule and that WILL get his lycense suspended. I
> > would like to see him continue to fly. He is an inspiration
> > to us all.
> >
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip |
sounds good to me
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119524#119524
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Lynn Matteson's Trip |
Oh, those boys over at the FAA go by hearsay. Their moto also is, "if your not
happy their happy".
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119525#119525
Message 34
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| Subject: | I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Congrats Lynn. We're all proud of you!
Deke Morisse
N148DM
S5/Soob/CAP
NE Michigan
"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of
immortality."
-- John Quincy Adams
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 4:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic
>
> Hi gang-
> I made it back today to home in Michigan...6.2 hours of flying (from
> Kearney, Nebraska), and 823 miles, for a whopping 132 miles per hour
> average, thanks to a 40-50 (at times) mph tailwind.
> More details after I pay attention to this gin and tonic that has my
> name on it.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/293+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Congrats Lynn. You're the man! Please post pictures.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119530#119530
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
The problem, as I have said, is it's not compatible with the system of
locating the CG and that is the system needed to document your CG.
You only need to do the weighing and measuring once and while a
calculator
will make life easier (it usually does) it can be done easily with a
pencil
and paper,eraser optional. These weighings and measurements are made
with
oil, coolant (if needed) and unusable fuel on board. the hardest part
of
the weighing is levelling the plane. To do the weighing it must be
levelled
as per designers instructions. I think the Kitfox uses the bottom of
the
pilot's door for levelling
To do the calculations you need to know that an arm is a measurement
from
the datum along the longitudinal axis of the plane. The nose wheel or
tail
wheel will have an arm that will never change unless you change the
configuration of the landing gear. In that case you will have to
re-weigh
the plane. (not too likely eh?) The main gear will have its own arm
which
again will never change. When you have the arms measured (once) and the
empty weight measured (once) then you can do the empty weight and
balance
report.
Before each flight you only have to add the weight of the fuel at a
given
arm (never changes), the weight of front seat people (another arm never
changes) and usually cargo is in a compartment which has another arm
that
never changes. With simple multiplication and addition the new CG for
any
weight location combo can be located. As long as the CG isn't too far
forward or back too far (the flight envelope) you're good to go.
I think the Kitfox actually had you do the weighing with minimum and
maximum
flyable weights. that way it becomes impossible to fly out of balance
as
long as you don't put an anvil back in fuselage.
You will hear of guys putting their batteries in the tail of the plane
to
get a good balance. Once the empty weight balance is achieved and
documented (the W&B report) then the monster will turn into a mouse.
Keep with it... It's not nearly so bad as it sounds.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> josandt@verizon.net
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:27 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance
> for Classic IV
>
>
>
> Weight on front wheel divided by total vehicle weight is a
> VERY simple fraction that even a small child can do. It's
> only one operation on a simple calculator (something even I
> can do!). And since ALL Kitfoxes of the same model should
> share these weight proportions, it would be very easy for
> comparison. I'm not suggesting that formal weight and balance
> should be shortcut, only that it might be a very simple
> matter to determine what part of the envelope one was
> operating in (no slide rule and measuring tape required). No
> slings, jacks, fulcrums, nuclear reactors, or atom smashers.
> Is it actually "the normal method" as another kitfox lister has said?
> John Sandt/KF7/Tri/BRS/Corvair/Ridgecrest,CA
>
> From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> Date: 2007/06/19 Tue PM 03:18:24 CDT
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for
> Classic IV
>
>
>
> > I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are
> always located a set distance fore and aft, why can't one
> simply calculate weight and balance by examining relative
> weights on the wheels? Why can't you just put scales under
> all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not exceed a
> certain percentage of total weight to remain inside CG
> envelope? I know I'm probably missing something here (this
> being my first build), but what is it?
>
>
> How do you figure out that percentage? Also, are you going to
> drive the kitfox up on scales every time your take off weight
> changes? If you follow the procedure detailed in the manual
> (and summerised by Noel earlier) then you can figure any
> changes to your CG with just a little math. It's really very easy.
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119491#119491
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
John,
The problem here is that only a very few Model IVs have been converted to
nose wheel. There is no data available from either Skystar;s archives or
Kitfox Aircraft. It is a one-off design modification. I think this is what
prompted the original question. Is there anyone out there that has done
this and if so do you have the measurements and form for inputing the data.
The Six through the Seven and Sport have factory specs for nose wheel and
factory supplied documentation.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: <josandt@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV
>
> Weight on front wheel divided by total vehicle weight is a VERY simple
> fraction that even a small child can do. It's only one operation on a
> simple calculator (something even I can do!). And since ALL Kitfoxes of
> the same model should share these weight proportions, it would be very
> easy for comparison. I'm not suggesting that formal weight and balance
> should be shortcut, only that it might be a very simple matter to
> determine what part of the envelope one was operating in (no slide rule
> and measuring tape required). No slings, jacks, fulcrums, nuclear
> reactors, or atom smashers. Is it actually "the normal method" as another
> kitfox lister has said?
> John Sandt/KF7/Tri/BRS/Corvair/Ridgecrest,CA
>
> From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> Date: 2007/06/19 Tue PM 03:18:24 CDT
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV
>
>
>
>> I'm going to show my ignorance here. Since the wheels are always located
>> a set distance fore and aft, why can't one simply calculate weight and
>> balance by examining relative weights on the wheels? Why can't you just
>> put scales under all the wheels, then say nose wheel weight must not
>> exceed a certain percentage of total weight to remain inside CG envelope?
>> I know I'm probably missing something here (this being my first build),
>> but what is it?
>
>
> How do you figure out that percentage? Also, are you going to drive the
> kitfox up on scales every time your take off weight changes? If you follow
> the procedure detailed in the manual (and summerised by Noel earlier) then
> you can figure any changes to your CG with just a little math. It's really
> very easy.
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119491#119491
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: S5 912S overheating - cowling? |
Kerry, did you ever get the oil temps down? If so what did you do? Mine
are lower but not as low as I'd like. On climb out it gets to 250 deg F.
It will drop to 220 or so in the pattern with the RPM's reduced. I put a
temp probe in the oil tank last week after a flight and it was 220 F. I
have opened up the outflow, and put a stiffener in the middle of the
opening. Also added a one inch piece of metal 45 deg bent and into the
slip stream to create a vacuum to suck air out of the outflow. Sonex
recommends this on the Jabiru installs. I have heard that the temps will
drop after a few hours of break-in. I've flown maybe 10 times, but only
about 7 hours in the air.
C. David Estapa
Woodstock, GA
N97DE S5TD 912ULS
http://www.airport-data.com/search/search3.html?code=n97de
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Glad you got home safe and sound Lynn, and didnt bend anything on that good lookin
bird!
Speakin of good-lookin, that cowl you have on it...
Is that the cowl that jabiru sells?
Do you know if it will fit on a 912 powered Speedster?
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119562#119562
Message 40
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| Subject: | I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
Congrats Lynn... Great to meet you at Cameron Park...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic
Hi gang-
I made it back today to home in Michigan...6.2 hours of flying (from
Kearney, Nebraska), and 823 miles, for a whopping 132 miles per hour
average, thanks to a 40-50 (at times) mph tailwind.
More details after I pay attention to this gin and tonic that has my
name on it.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/293+ hrs
do not archive
1:12 PM
1:12 PM
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV |
I had just caught the thread and sent an email to Francisco with a W&B
spreadsheet.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:38 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic IV
Francisco,
The old Skystar company built and flew a version of the classic 4 with a
nose wheel option before they went out of business. It was called the "Lite
Squared". While the Center of gravity envelope is most likely the same as
the Classic 4, they probably did some flight testing to confirm the CG
envelope and loading limits for that plane. It might be worth your time to
contact Kitfox Aircraft LLC http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/ and ask if they
have the weight and balance forms and instructions for weighing that model
and computing the empty CG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503, Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=119507#119507
1:12 PM
1:12 PM
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel and weight & balance for Classic |
IV
At 12:42 PM 6/19/2007, you wrote:
>Why can't you just put scales under all the wheels, then say nose
>wheel weight must not exceed a certain percentage of total weight to
>remain inside CG envelope?
You can. You're not missing a thing. Unless I'm missing something.
(No, I mean besides that.) As far as I know, weight and balance is
always determined by putting the plane on scales and using the
resulting weights to calculate a CG location and total weight. It's
then a very simple matter to calculate a nose wheel weight versus
total weight envelope similar to the weight/CG or weight/moment
envelopes you typically see in POH's. I suppose you could then load
the plane with a known weight of payload and fuel and measure the
nose wheel weight and know the CG's inside the envelope. However, it
seems simpler to calculate the various payload datums when you do
your empty weight and balance, (by loading each seat, baggage, and
fuel tank separately,) and then using that information, along with
measured payload item weights, to calculate a loaded weight and CG
whenever you need to. Am I missing the point?
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: I'm home, safe and sound...off topic |
On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:05 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> More details after I pay attention to this gin and tonic that has my
> name on it.
Welcome home, Lynn; drink your gin, take a shower and then write your
PIREP illustrated with photos. We want you to share with us everything
and I mean: EVERYTHING! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Start up oil pressure, Jabiru |
On Jun 19, 2007, at 5:15 PM, DanM wrote:
> I don't want to fry my nice new engine.
I understand, Dan. But if your engine was stored all these years with
the preserving oil from the factory, it shouldn't be a problem and it
should fire the first time as mine did: on the first spin of the
starter. About the oil pressure you have, anyway, to put on your check
list that it is the first item to check when the engine is starter. No
pressure would require an immediate engine stop. As it will always be
cooler than operating temperature, the oil will be thicker and pressure
higher at engine start. It may take several minutes before it starts
going down. On my engine it won't get over the operating 80C when
taxiing. I need to take off to see the "normal" oil temperature and
pressure.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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