Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Being seen (a little off topic) ()
2. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Noel Loveys)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (fly2wb@dishmail.net)
4. 08:19 AM - Re: Flaperons ()
5. 10:15 AM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (Michael Gibbs)
6. 12:14 PM - Re: Alternative finishes (Dave G.)
7. 02:08 PM - Re: Alternative finishes (Fred Shiple)
8. 02:45 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (Michel Verheughe)
9. 02:57 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (kitfoxmike)
10. 03:02 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (kitfoxmike)
11. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Michel Verheughe)
12. 04:10 PM - Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols)
13. 04:24 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Paul)
14. 05:07 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Andy Fultz)
15. 05:32 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (kitfoxmike)
16. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lowell Fitt)
17. 05:40 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (kitfoxmike)
18. 05:41 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (Bob)
19. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lynn Matteson)
20. 06:28 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lynn Matteson)
21. 06:37 PM - Re: Flaperons (Lynn Matteson)
22. 06:44 PM - Re: Flaperons (Lynn Matteson)
23. 07:17 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Lowell Fitt)
24. 07:37 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols)
25. 08:26 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols)
26. 11:31 PM - Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
27. 11:37 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Being seen (a little off topic) |
Speaking of sun reflection and being seen, one of the best signaling devices one
can carry in the survival pack is a signaling mirror. They usually have aiming
instructions printed on them and can be used to signal airliners at very high
altitudes. Most pilots know that a mirror signal indicates distress and will
report it to ATC. Cell phones are good too, but only if one has a signal.
Signal mirrors will work even through haze.
Deke
S5/NSI/CAP
Northeast Michigan
do not archive
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:48:45 -0700 (PDT), kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> --- fox5flyer@idealwifi.net wrote:
>
>> Kurt, I believe the Gray Ghost was our late Mike
>> Harter with a Model IV/Subaru who lost his life out
>> west several years ago when he got trapped in a
>> canyon he couldn't climb out of.
>> Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
>> Deke
>> S5/NSI Subaru/CAP
>> Northeast Michigan
>
> That's the one Deke. I was trying not to go any
> further with the Ghost name than to tie it to the
> color and sound. Mike was always a likeable guy. We
> have lost too many from this list already and being
> seen is just another way to be a little safer.
>
> I painted my 5 white with red and maroon trim.
>
> I also left the flapperons polished aluminum to flash
> in the sun and put mirrored tint on the overhead
> glass. Nothing beats a sun reflection.
>
> Kurt Schrader
> S-5 NSI turbo
> Florida and Panama
>
>
>
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
I've been following this thread with a bit of interest. What I get is
simply, see and be seen.
Lowell had made a lot of practical observations in paint schemes. The
use
of the colour black was mentioned that it could cause the top of the
wing to
change shape (due to shrinkage) on a hot summer day.
My own plane is white with, would you believe it, navy blue and Day-glo
orange stripes. The very first time I saw it I thought to myself if it
ever
goes down it will be easy to find even in snow. The guy who built the
plane
had a number of other aircraft over the years most of which had very
similar
paint schemes. One thing to keep in consideration if going with the
Day-Glo
is it will fade pretty quickly.
Thanks to whoever started the discussion on colours.
I'm going to include a couple of reduced pics of the plane which only
flies
day VFR.
Noel
Do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kurt schrader
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:38 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts?
>
>
> Lowell and Kurt, I think I read somewhere that the US
> air force has
> decided that black was the best visible colour for an
> aircraft during
> daytime. Can you confirm that or have I just been
> dreaming?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> The best color depends upon where you want to be seen,
> or not seen. I always thought it was funny when our
> airforce painted their planes green. Didn't they
> expect to be flying when trouble came? Now many are
> gray, but some are black. I think the black is for
> radiation absorption against IR weapons, better hiding
> at night and better hiding up high. But I think they
> stand out when looking down on them in daylight.
>
> Years ago before the KitFox was introduced, I was
> considering another plane and wanted to paint it green
> and brown. Looked good on trees! Then I thought
> about how anyone would find me if I went down in the
> trees.
>
> I once saw an army helo with one white blade and one
> black blade on top. You couldn't miss it from above!
> Your mind knows it can't fly with one blade and you
> are immediately drawn to it. I was impressed with how
> well it stood out even from miles away. Still
> couldn't bring myself to paint one wing white and the
> other black....
>
> Kurt Schrader
> S-5 NSI/turbo
> Florida and Panama
>
>
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research
> Panel today!
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://w
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>
>
> </b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
Would you happen to be going to Oshkosh Andy? They have a great covering
class that includes a seminar that explains the process in detail with
many tips to get your plane finished. Then they will take you over to the
workshop were you will be able to cover a rudder complete with tapes.
I actually went through the class twice and went home with a newfound
confidence---it was easy!
Brad
Wichita Kansas
5--Lyc 0-235
do not archive
>
> Thanks guys for the many comments and suggestions you have offered. I
> THINK
> I have done about all I can do in preparation for the covering process. I
> have one more wire to run and everything I can think of has at least been
> prefit and removed or left in place if it won't interfere with the
> covering.
> I do believe I have about run out of excuses to go ahead and get it done.
> If anything else comes to mind I'm still listening. Thanks again.
>
> Andy Fultz
>
>
Message 4
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I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking for a quick
and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks
to all who imputed. Leon Morris/classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX Do
not archive
---- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
> At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:
> >Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the
> >flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-gone".
>
> Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts |
Kurt sez:
>Years ago before the KitFox was introduced, I was considering
>another plane and wanted to paint it green and brown. Looked good on
>trees! Then I thought about how anyone would find me if I went down
>in the trees.
The local sheriff's deputy said that when my bright-green-and-purple
Kitfox crashed amongst low, scrubby evergreen trees it looked like a
small patch of marijuana.
I think my next one will be nicely colored on the sides and bottom
but the top of the wings, tail surfaces, and fuselage will be day-glo
orange! :-)
Mike G.
Kitfox list co-admin
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative finishes |
Thanks Fred. I actually was aware of your experience and it stopped me
from using this sytem before. However a search of the web revealed only
endorsements for AFS and Stewart. I was tempted to use Polytone but I've
elected to give this sytem a shot, hope it works out.
Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Shiple
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alternative finishes
Dave,
I used the same product known as Aircraft Finishing System before it
was sold to Stewart. The product was very difficult to learn to use as
it would run with exceptionall ease. I had help from a painter with a
lot of experience with polyurethanes who felt the same way. The
technique was learnable and I was pleased with the initial appearance.
However, I've been very disappointed with the abrasion resistance of
the product. It scratches with exceptional ease and as with other
polyurethanes, the repair is not particularly good looking.
Disappointing after all the work that went into the application. Other
urethanes I've been around have been far more durable.
Fred
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative finishes |
hope it works well for you. it will look good.
fred
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Being seen (a little off topic) |
On Jul 1, 2007, at 12:47 PM, <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net> wrote:
> Speaking of sun reflection and being seen, one of the best signaling
> devices one can carry in the survival pack is a signaling mirror.
Yes, I do remember that my father, an airman, took such a mirror on our
sailboat when I was a child, Deke. It had a hole (only glass, no
silver) in the middle with a red circle around it. It creates a dot in
the center of your vision as you look through the hole and you try to
place it on the objet you want to attract the attention off. Moving it
up and down in the right sequence should give the dot, dot, dot, dash,
dash, dash, dot, dot, dot of the SOS signal.
... in theory, at least, because we luckily never had to use it.
Still, you need a) the sun and b) your object on the same side as the
sun, in order to have it to work.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Being seen (a little off topic) |
An old cd works well also, or a piece of one.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121642#121642
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts |
Just for thought here, my white is cool as can be in the 95+ temps sitting out
on the ramp at a flyin. My rv is going to be painted white for those reasons
also. Oh, and one more thing, with the polytone white, Rustoleum white in the
semigloss is perfect for touch up, I have actually the whole horizontal and elevator
painted with this now and looks fantastic, I plan on using it on the bottom,
will be interesting if the exhaust will clean off better when done with
the Rustoleum.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121643#121643
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
On Jul 1, 2007, at 2:30 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> When flying in a group some sort of second color highlight is helpful.
You have a lot more experience in formation flying than me, Lowell, so
your comment on this would be most appreciated:
From the little experience I have in re-grouping in the sky, and
together with my fellow pilots in the club, we have found out that if a
meeting is arranged, one aircraft has to turn around a known
geographical feature 500 feet above the other. It is then the lowest
plane that has to spot the highest one and manoeuvre to come behind
him. The reason being: It is much easier to see an aircraft against the
sky than against the ground. Do you agree or do you know of another
procedure?
This was again proved to me today when I flew with another aircraft to
a nearby airfield. Since the other aircraft was an instructor with a
student, they wanted to do a few touch and go before leaving for the
return journey. I was to take off when they were on the downwind leg of
their last traffic pattern; we were to fly to the reporting point
exiting the airfield CTR zone go go further in G zone. Since I was
ahead of the other guy, I flew slow to give him a chance to catch up.
As we arrived at the reporting point, I saw him passing maybe 200 feet
above me and ... he never saw me! Once on a unicom frequency, he called
me to ask where I was and I answered: Behind you!
Okay, my colours are silver and dark blue with red nose and red wing
tips. But he didn't see me on the background of the Norwegian forested
mountains.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tail Wheel spring tension |
A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050
he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way
it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type
of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs
are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't
answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way
it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high
speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his
question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks.
Clem Nichols
Model IV 1200
Subaru EA-81
Munfordville, Ky.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel spring tension |
I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are
handed left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy.
Too much lag. I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared
to the hard solid maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its
the way to go.
Paul P
Model IV Rotax 912
----- Original Message -----
From: Clem Nichols
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:07 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050
he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way
it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type
of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs
are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't
answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way
it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high
speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his
question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks.
Clem Nichols
Model IV 1200
Subaru EA-81
Munfordville, Ky.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Tail Wheel spring tension |
Paul,
Did you make your new bushings or were you able to find some "off the
shelf" bushings? I've heard enough good things about replacing the hard
maule wheel with the "Homebuilders Special" repalcement that I plan to do
that before I fly mine. Thanks
Andy Fultz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:24 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are handed
left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy. Too much lag.
I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared to the hard solid
maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its the way to go.
Paul P
Model IV Rotax 912
----- Original Message -----
From: Clem Nichols
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:07 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050
he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's
set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail
wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He
was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because
I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't
notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the
tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass
along your advice. Thanks.
Clem Nichols
Model IV 1200
Subaru EA-81
Munfordville, Ky.
http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro
nics.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts |
that's insignia white.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121676#121676
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
Michel, Your exerience is frequent in our group also. Sometimes it takes
some time to form up again after a long segment of flying. We will often
pick ground features to offer position reports. Sometimes it is a quick
find and other times it still takes a while. What is the most likely
scenerio with our flights is that most will fly in visual contact with at
least one other airplane. Often that airplane is in visual with another and
so on. But on occasion when preparing to land as a flight of ##, we have to
consciously reform the group and it is often a challenge. Occasionally the
airplane determined to be the lead airplane will do a steep 360 to show the
motion and broad wing surfaces. I would think that the plan you use -
forming up on the higher airplane - generally wouldn't work for us, because
more times than not, the lead airplanes are down way low which adds to the
challenge of being seen. I have had occasion to following barn roofs in
hilly country thinking that the glare from the roof is the glare from the
top of a wing.
One thing that is important in group flying is ensuring all the airplanes in
the group have their altimiters set to the same barometric pressure. It is
comforting having the unaccouted for airplane at a differnt altitude,
especially when both are reporting over the intersection of the two roads or
over the south shoreline of the lake.
We do talk a lot to each other. One quote from a recent trip. Ken,
"There's nothing down there." Mark, "What are you looking for?" Ken,
"Nothing." Mark, "Then you've found it." Ken, "Yeah, I know, it's down on
my left."
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts?
>
> On Jul 1, 2007, at 2:30 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>> When flying in a group some sort of second color highlight is helpful.
>
> You have a lot more experience in formation flying than me, Lowell, so
> your comment on this would be most appreciated:
> From the little experience I have in re-grouping in the sky, and together
> with my fellow pilots in the club, we have found out that if a meeting is
> arranged, one aircraft has to turn around a known geographical feature 500
> feet above the other. It is then the lowest plane that has to spot the
> highest one and manoeuvre to come behind him. The reason being: It is much
> easier to see an aircraft against the sky than against the ground. Do you
> agree or do you know of another procedure?
> This was again proved to me today when I flew with another aircraft to a
> nearby airfield. Since the other aircraft was an instructor with a
> student, they wanted to do a few touch and go before leaving for the
> return journey. I was to take off when they were on the downwind leg of
> their last traffic pattern; we were to fly to the reporting point exiting
> the airfield CTR zone go go further in G zone. Since I was ahead of the
> other guy, I flew slow to give him a chance to catch up. As we arrived at
> the reporting point, I saw him passing maybe 200 feet above me and ... he
> never saw me! Once on a unicom frequency, he called me to ask where I was
> and I answered: Behind you!
> Okay, my colours are silver and dark blue with red nose and red wing tips.
> But he didn't see me on the background of the Norwegian forested
> mountains.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
I want to say that there is no reason for a fox to get trapped in a cove. It will
do a 90degree banking turn that will absolutely pull your eyes out and turn
you on a dime. Next you can pull up slightly and hit full rudder and with aileron
and do a hammer head wing over. I practice both of these and can tell
you, at least with a 4, it can be done. I've also used it for a turn back after
the engine went to less than 50 percent. I wouldn't do this if you don't know
the fox though. Put at least 300 hrs on it before even attempting to try
it, and at altitude. I learned the hammer when at a mountain flying class, guy
had 20000 hrs, and in a cessna at that.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121680#121680
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Being seen (a little off topic) |
Broken windshield has been used, too.
--------
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121681#121681
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
Andy-
I had another thought about applying the masking tapes...get the
plastic fine-line tapes from your local auto paint store. When using
them don't pull to stretch them, just pull them taut. Use them for
where you are going to have a stripe, or wherever there is a change
of color. Once the fine line tape is down, you can use regular
masking tape (good quality) for applying the masking paper...NOT
newspaper (it bleeds the color through sometimes, because it is
porous)...to the fine line tape. And whenever one tape crosses
another, make SURE you use your fingernail to *absolutely* make sure
that the crossing tape is tight up to the underlying tape, or you'll
get a "blow-under" of paint which you will see when the tape is
removed. Even if you don't have one tape crossing another, this can
happen even where the tape crosses your false ribs, or other hard
edges, and even your finishing tapes. One of my wings shows some of
this behavior, but I got better when I did the second wing.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/350+ hrs
On Jun 30, 2007, at 3:07 PM, Andy Fultz wrote:
> <andynfultz@bellsouth.net>
>
> Thanks guys for the many comments and suggestions you have
> offered. I THINK
> I have done about all I can do in preparation for the covering
> process. I
> have one more wire to run and everything I can think of has at
> least been
> prefit and removed or left in place if it won't interfere with the
> covering.
> I do believe I have about run out of excuses to go ahead and get it
> done.
> If anything else comes to mind I'm still listening. Thanks again.
>
> Andy Fultz
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? |
Kurt's comments reminded me of something else...make sure that you
put a reinforcing "doily" wherever there is something that might rub
or touch a part of the aircraft. I put one where the attaching nuts
and cotter pins for the flaperon mechanism comes close to touching
the fabric behind the door openings on the sides of the fuselage. I
also put one over the fabric where the wing tank quick-drains were...
(I chose not to use the drains, and rely on my header tank for
sumping the fuel for any moisture (haven't found any yet) ). On my
recent trip to CA and back, I noticed that the vibration had worn a
hole through the fabric AND the doily anyway, so I've got a repair to
do.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/350+ hrs
On Jun 30, 2007, at 4:47 PM, kurt schrader wrote:
> <smokey_bear_40220@yahoo.com>
>
> --- Andy Fultz <andynfultz@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon guys. I'm about to embark on what I
>> hope to be the final big
>> step in the build process. I THINK I'm ready to
>> cover and paint my project.......
>>
>> Andy Fultz
>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Don't know the particulars of your plane, but make
> sure you provide access to everything for maintenance
> before you cover.
>
> On my S-5 I missed using blind nuts on a few places
> like the baggage floor and rudder peddle mounts. Much
> harder to work on once covered. To remove the rudder
> peddles, I needed to remove the firewall and
> everything on it! Check for stuff like that first.
> Not everything is best done by the plans.
>
> Kurt S.
> S-5/NSI turbo
>
Message 21
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Regular paint thinner (mineral spirits) soaked into paper towels laid
on the flaperons for a few hours is a pretty "fume-free" way to
soften the film. It will then pull off fairly easily. It's a time-
consuming job, so find something else to do while they soak...but
keep the towels wet. When I did mine after being covered for over 12
years, I did about a 4-foot section at a time.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/350+ hrs
On Jun 30, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:
>> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the
>> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-
>> gone".
>
> Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
Message 22
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Even if you did, the hairdryer is probably not a good idea, due to
the internal structure of the flaperon having some foam inside. I
don't know how much temperature this foam will stand, or the adhesive
that secures it all.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/350+ hrs
On Jul 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, <l.morris@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking
> for a quick and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old
> daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks to all who imputed. Leon Morris/
> classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX Do not archive
> ---- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>>
>> At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote:
>>> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the
>>> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-
>>> gone".
>>
>> Check the archives; this has been a popular subject.
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
>> San Diego, CA
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel spring tension |
Clem,
I've flown both ways and for me, at least I don't seem to have a preference.
I once put eyebolts on the tabs to straighten the spring angle, but it put a
definite tension in the system and I didn't like the looseness that resulted
from adding an additional chain link on both sides. I felt the tension
would be a potential problem as the bottom hinge is a bronze bushed rod end
fitting, I didn't feel comfortable with that much tenison continually on it.
One other thought, In times past some have had the springs come off the
tabs and it is prudent to safety wire the loop to resist the spring loop
from popping out or the hole in the tab or off the chain.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
1998 850 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clem Nichols" <cnichols@scrtc.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050 he's
recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's set
up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail wheel
mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He was
asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because I
don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't
notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the
tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass
along your advice. Thanks.
Clem Nichols
Model IV 1200
Subaru EA-81
Munfordville, Ky.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel spring tension |
Paul:
"Very interesting", to quote one of the characters on an old TV comedy
program from years ago. Based on what you say my plane has the Maule
tail wheel, and his has something else. I was merely quoting him when I
said he had the Maule. (Pardon my ignorance.) His springs are the same
on each side, and any force they exert is the result of being stretched
rather than compressed. One end of the spring is attached to the arm on
the tail wheel, and the other to a chain which is attached to the rudder
arm. The setup is pretty "sloppy" as you put it, but because of the
strength of the springs it will take some type of tool to stretch them
enough that he can take a link out of the chains. In any event it
certainly appears to me that they're too loose, although as I said in my
initial posting I didn't detect any problem when taxiing the plane
today.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are
handed left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy.
Too much lag. I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared
to the hard solid maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its
the way to go.
Paul P
Model IV Rotax 912
http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro
nics.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tail Wheel spring tension |
Lowell:
Certainly good advice re the bronze hinge and the safety wire. Thanks.
Clem Nichols
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension
>
> Clem,
>
> I've flown both ways and for me, at least I don't seem to have a
> preference. I once put eyebolts on the tabs to straighten the spring
> angle, but it put a definite tension in the system and I didn't like the
> looseness that resulted from adding an additional chain link on both
> sides. I felt the tension would be a potential problem as the bottom
> hinge is a bronze bushed rod end fitting, I didn't feel comfortable with
> that much tenison continually on it.
>
> One other thought, In times past some have had the springs come off the
> tabs and it is prudent to safety wire the loop to resist the spring loop
> from popping out or the hole in the tab or off the chain.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park, CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp
> 1998 850 hrs.
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Kitfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
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PLEASE READ. This document contains Kitfox-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Kitfox-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kitfox-List
running smoothly for all of us.
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*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
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one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
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select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
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The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
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You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
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These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
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2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
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down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
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Look for the link "Image Resizer"
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you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
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This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
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If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
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Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
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*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
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* Kitfox-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question
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* Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
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* Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-??
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* Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
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*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
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All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the
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****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
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!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
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2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
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Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
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process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
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*** List Archive CDROM ***
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A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
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Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kitfox-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
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- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
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terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
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- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
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easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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[This is an automated posting.]
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| Subject: | Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Kitfox-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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