---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/01/07: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Being seen (a little off topic) () 2. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Noel Loveys) 3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (fly2wb@dishmail.net) 4. 08:19 AM - Re: Flaperons () 5. 10:15 AM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (Michael Gibbs) 6. 12:14 PM - Re: Alternative finishes (Dave G.) 7. 02:08 PM - Re: Alternative finishes (Fred Shiple) 8. 02:45 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (Michel Verheughe) 9. 02:57 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (kitfoxmike) 10. 03:02 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (kitfoxmike) 11. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Michel Verheughe) 12. 04:10 PM - Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols) 13. 04:24 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Paul) 14. 05:07 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Andy Fultz) 15. 05:32 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts (kitfoxmike) 16. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lowell Fitt) 17. 05:40 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (kitfoxmike) 18. 05:41 PM - Re: Being seen (a little off topic) (Bob) 19. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lynn Matteson) 20. 06:28 PM - Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? (Lynn Matteson) 21. 06:37 PM - Re: Flaperons (Lynn Matteson) 22. 06:44 PM - Re: Flaperons (Lynn Matteson) 23. 07:17 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Lowell Fitt) 24. 07:37 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols) 25. 08:26 PM - Re: Tail Wheel spring tension (Clem Nichols) 26. 11:31 PM - Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 27. 11:37 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:36 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Being seen (a little off topic) Speaking of sun reflection and being seen, one of the best signaling devices one can carry in the survival pack is a signaling mirror. They usually have aiming instructions printed on them and can be used to signal airliners at very high altitudes. Most pilots know that a mirror signal indicates distress and will report it to ATC. Cell phones are good too, but only if one has a signal. Signal mirrors will work even through haze. Deke S5/NSI/CAP Northeast Michigan do not archive On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 20:48:45 -0700 (PDT), kurt schrader wrote: > > > --- fox5flyer@idealwifi.net wrote: > >> Kurt, I believe the Gray Ghost was our late Mike >> Harter with a Model IV/Subaru who lost his life out >> west several years ago when he got trapped in a >> canyon he couldn't climb out of. >> Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this. >> Deke >> S5/NSI Subaru/CAP >> Northeast Michigan > > That's the one Deke. I was trying not to go any > further with the Ghost name than to tie it to the > color and sound. Mike was always a likeable guy. We > have lost too many from this list already and being > seen is just another way to be a little safer. > > I painted my 5 white with red and maroon trim. > > I also left the flapperons polished aluminum to flash > in the sun and put mirrored tint on the overhead > glass. Nothing beats a sun reflection. > > Kurt Schrader > S-5 NSI turbo > Florida and Panama > > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:12 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? I've been following this thread with a bit of interest. What I get is simply, see and be seen. Lowell had made a lot of practical observations in paint schemes. The use of the colour black was mentioned that it could cause the top of the wing to change shape (due to shrinkage) on a hot summer day. My own plane is white with, would you believe it, navy blue and Day-glo orange stripes. The very first time I saw it I thought to myself if it ever goes down it will be easy to find even in snow. The guy who built the plane had a number of other aircraft over the years most of which had very similar paint schemes. One thing to keep in consideration if going with the Day-Glo is it will fade pretty quickly. Thanks to whoever started the discussion on colours. I'm going to include a couple of reduced pics of the plane which only flies day VFR. Noel Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > kurt schrader > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:38 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? > > > Lowell and Kurt, I think I read somewhere that the US > air force has > decided that black was the best visible colour for an > aircraft during > daytime. Can you confirm that or have I just been > dreaming? > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > The best color depends upon where you want to be seen, > or not seen. I always thought it was funny when our > airforce painted their planes green. Didn't they > expect to be flying when trouble came? Now many are > gray, but some are black. I think the black is for > radiation absorption against IR weapons, better hiding > at night and better hiding up high. But I think they > stand out when looking down on them in daylight. > > Years ago before the KitFox was introduced, I was > considering another plane and wanted to paint it green > and brown. Looked good on trees! Then I thought > about how anyone would find me if I went down in the > trees. > > I once saw an army helo with one white blade and one > black blade on top. You couldn't miss it from above! > Your mind knows it can't fly with one blade and you > are immediately drawn to it. I was impressed with how > well it stood out even from miles away. Still > couldn't bring myself to paint one wing white and the > other black.... > > Kurt Schrader > S-5 NSI/turbo > Florida and Panama > > > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research > Panel today! > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > > > 

>
> 
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://w
> ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> 
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> 
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? From: fly2wb@dishmail.net Would you happen to be going to Oshkosh Andy? They have a great covering class that includes a seminar that explains the process in detail with many tips to get your plane finished. Then they will take you over to the workshop were you will be able to cover a rudder complete with tapes. I actually went through the class twice and went home with a newfound confidence---it was easy! Brad Wichita Kansas 5--Lyc 0-235 do not archive > > Thanks guys for the many comments and suggestions you have offered. I > THINK > I have done about all I can do in preparation for the covering process. I > have one more wire to run and everything I can think of has at least been > prefit and removed or left in place if it won't interfere with the > covering. > I do believe I have about run out of excuses to go ahead and get it done. > If anything else comes to mind I'm still listening. Thanks again. > > Andy Fultz > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:21 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperons I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking for a quick and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks to all who imputed. Leon Morris/classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX Do not archive ---- Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote: > >Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the > >flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be-gone". > > Check the archives; this has been a popular subject. > > > Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:25 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts Kurt sez: >Years ago before the KitFox was introduced, I was considering >another plane and wanted to paint it green and brown. Looked good on >trees! Then I thought about how anyone would find me if I went down >in the trees. The local sheriff's deputy said that when my bright-green-and-purple Kitfox crashed amongst low, scrubby evergreen trees it looked like a small patch of marijuana. I think my next one will be nicely colored on the sides and bottom but the top of the wings, tail surfaces, and fuselage will be day-glo orange! :-) Mike G. Kitfox list co-admin N728KF Phoenix, AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:04 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alternative finishes Thanks Fred. I actually was aware of your experience and it stopped me from using this sytem before. However a search of the web revealed only endorsements for AFS and Stewart. I was tempted to use Polytone but I've elected to give this sytem a shot, hope it works out. Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Shiple To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alternative finishes Dave, I used the same product known as Aircraft Finishing System before it was sold to Stewart. The product was very difficult to learn to use as it would run with exceptionall ease. I had help from a painter with a lot of experience with polyurethanes who felt the same way. The technique was learnable and I was pleased with the initial appearance. However, I've been very disappointed with the abrasion resistance of the product. It scratches with exceptional ease and as with other polyurethanes, the repair is not particularly good looking. Disappointing after all the work that went into the application. Other urethanes I've been around have been far more durable. Fred ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:59 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alternative finishes hope it works well for you. it will look good. fred ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:11 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Being seen (a little off topic) On Jul 1, 2007, at 12:47 PM, wrote: > Speaking of sun reflection and being seen, one of the best signaling > devices one can carry in the survival pack is a signaling mirror. Yes, I do remember that my father, an airman, took such a mirror on our sailboat when I was a child, Deke. It had a hole (only glass, no silver) in the middle with a red circle around it. It creates a dot in the center of your vision as you look through the hole and you try to place it on the objet you want to attract the attention off. Moving it up and down in the right sequence should give the dot, dot, dot, dash, dash, dash, dot, dot, dot of the SOS signal. ... in theory, at least, because we luckily never had to use it. Still, you need a) the sun and b) your object on the same side as the sun, in order to have it to work. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:42 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Being seen (a little off topic) From: "kitfoxmike" An old cd works well also, or a piece of one. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121642#121642 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts From: "kitfoxmike" Just for thought here, my white is cool as can be in the 95+ temps sitting out on the ramp at a flyin. My rv is going to be painted white for those reasons also. Oh, and one more thing, with the polytone white, Rustoleum white in the semigloss is perfect for touch up, I have actually the whole horizontal and elevator painted with this now and looks fantastic, I plan on using it on the bottom, will be interesting if the exhaust will clean off better when done with the Rustoleum. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121643#121643 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:43 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? On Jul 1, 2007, at 2:30 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > When flying in a group some sort of second color highlight is helpful. You have a lot more experience in formation flying than me, Lowell, so your comment on this would be most appreciated: From the little experience I have in re-grouping in the sky, and together with my fellow pilots in the club, we have found out that if a meeting is arranged, one aircraft has to turn around a known geographical feature 500 feet above the other. It is then the lowest plane that has to spot the highest one and manoeuvre to come behind him. The reason being: It is much easier to see an aircraft against the sky than against the ground. Do you agree or do you know of another procedure? This was again proved to me today when I flew with another aircraft to a nearby airfield. Since the other aircraft was an instructor with a student, they wanted to do a few touch and go before leaving for the return journey. I was to take off when they were on the downwind leg of their last traffic pattern; we were to fly to the reporting point exiting the airfield CTR zone go go further in G zone. Since I was ahead of the other guy, I flew slow to give him a chance to catch up. As we arrived at the reporting point, I saw him passing maybe 200 feet above me and ... he never saw me! Once on a unicom frequency, he called me to ask where I was and I answered: Behind you! Okay, my colours are silver and dark blue with red nose and red wing tips. But he didn't see me on the background of the Norwegian forested mountains. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:15 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050 he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks. Clem Nichols Model IV 1200 Subaru EA-81 Munfordville, Ky. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:09 PM PST US From: "Paul" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are handed left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy. Too much lag. I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared to the hard solid maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its the way to go. Paul P Model IV Rotax 912 ----- Original Message ----- From: Clem Nichols To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050 he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks. Clem Nichols Model IV 1200 Subaru EA-81 Munfordville, Ky. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:38 PM PST US From: "Andy Fultz" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension Paul, Did you make your new bushings or were you able to find some "off the shelf" bushings? I've heard enough good things about replacing the hard maule wheel with the "Homebuilders Special" repalcement that I plan to do that before I fly mine. Thanks Andy Fultz -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:24 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are handed left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy. Too much lag. I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared to the hard solid maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its the way to go. Paul P Model IV Rotax 912 ----- Original Message ----- From: Clem Nichols To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:07 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050 he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks. Clem Nichols Model IV 1200 Subaru EA-81 Munfordville, Ky. http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro nics.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts From: "kitfoxmike" that's insignia white. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121676#121676 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:01 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? Michel, Your exerience is frequent in our group also. Sometimes it takes some time to form up again after a long segment of flying. We will often pick ground features to offer position reports. Sometimes it is a quick find and other times it still takes a while. What is the most likely scenerio with our flights is that most will fly in visual contact with at least one other airplane. Often that airplane is in visual with another and so on. But on occasion when preparing to land as a flight of ##, we have to consciously reform the group and it is often a challenge. Occasionally the airplane determined to be the lead airplane will do a steep 360 to show the motion and broad wing surfaces. I would think that the plan you use - forming up on the higher airplane - generally wouldn't work for us, because more times than not, the lead airplanes are down way low which adds to the challenge of being seen. I have had occasion to following barn roofs in hilly country thinking that the glare from the roof is the glare from the top of a wing. One thing that is important in group flying is ensuring all the airplanes in the group have their altimiters set to the same barometric pressure. It is comforting having the unaccouted for airplane at a differnt altitude, especially when both are reporting over the intersection of the two roads or over the south shoreline of the lake. We do talk a lot to each other. One quote from a recent trip. Ken, "There's nothing down there." Mark, "What are you looking for?" Ken, "Nothing." Mark, "Then you've found it." Ken, "Yeah, I know, it's down on my left." Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp 1998 850 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? > > On Jul 1, 2007, at 2:30 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: >> When flying in a group some sort of second color highlight is helpful. > > You have a lot more experience in formation flying than me, Lowell, so > your comment on this would be most appreciated: > From the little experience I have in re-grouping in the sky, and together > with my fellow pilots in the club, we have found out that if a meeting is > arranged, one aircraft has to turn around a known geographical feature 500 > feet above the other. It is then the lowest plane that has to spot the > highest one and manoeuvre to come behind him. The reason being: It is much > easier to see an aircraft against the sky than against the ground. Do you > agree or do you know of another procedure? > This was again proved to me today when I flew with another aircraft to a > nearby airfield. Since the other aircraft was an instructor with a > student, they wanted to do a few touch and go before leaving for the > return journey. I was to take off when they were on the downwind leg of > their last traffic pattern; we were to fly to the reporting point exiting > the airfield CTR zone go go further in G zone. Since I was ahead of the > other guy, I flew slow to give him a chance to catch up. As we arrived at > the reporting point, I saw him passing maybe 200 feet above me and ... he > never saw me! Once on a unicom frequency, he called me to ask where I was > and I answered: Behind you! > Okay, my colours are silver and dark blue with red nose and red wing tips. > But he didn't see me on the background of the Norwegian forested > mountains. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:50 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? From: "kitfoxmike" I want to say that there is no reason for a fox to get trapped in a cove. It will do a 90degree banking turn that will absolutely pull your eyes out and turn you on a dime. Next you can pull up slightly and hit full rudder and with aileron and do a hammer head wing over. I practice both of these and can tell you, at least with a 4, it can be done. I've also used it for a turn back after the engine went to less than 50 percent. I wouldn't do this if you don't know the fox though. Put at least 300 hrs on it before even attempting to try it, and at altitude. I learned the hammer when at a mountain flying class, guy had 20000 hrs, and in a cessna at that. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121680#121680 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:11 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Being seen (a little off topic) From: "Bob" Broken windshield has been used, too. -------- Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=121681#121681 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:20 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? Andy- I had another thought about applying the masking tapes...get the plastic fine-line tapes from your local auto paint store. When using them don't pull to stretch them, just pull them taut. Use them for where you are going to have a stripe, or wherever there is a change of color. Once the fine line tape is down, you can use regular masking tape (good quality) for applying the masking paper...NOT newspaper (it bleeds the color through sometimes, because it is porous)...to the fine line tape. And whenever one tape crosses another, make SURE you use your fingernail to *absolutely* make sure that the crossing tape is tight up to the underlying tape, or you'll get a "blow-under" of paint which you will see when the tape is removed. Even if you don't have one tape crossing another, this can happen even where the tape crosses your false ribs, or other hard edges, and even your finishing tapes. One of my wings shows some of this behavior, but I got better when I did the second wing. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/350+ hrs On Jun 30, 2007, at 3:07 PM, Andy Fultz wrote: > > > Thanks guys for the many comments and suggestions you have > offered. I THINK > I have done about all I can do in preparation for the covering > process. I > have one more wire to run and everything I can think of has at > least been > prefit and removed or left in place if it won't interfere with the > covering. > I do believe I have about run out of excuses to go ahead and get it > done. > If anything else comes to mind I'm still listening. Thanks again. > > Andy Fultz ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:15 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Pre Cover and Finish Thoughts? Kurt's comments reminded me of something else...make sure that you put a reinforcing "doily" wherever there is something that might rub or touch a part of the aircraft. I put one where the attaching nuts and cotter pins for the flaperon mechanism comes close to touching the fabric behind the door openings on the sides of the fuselage. I also put one over the fabric where the wing tank quick-drains were... (I chose not to use the drains, and rely on my header tank for sumping the fuel for any moisture (haven't found any yet) ). On my recent trip to CA and back, I noticed that the vibration had worn a hole through the fabric AND the doily anyway, so I've got a repair to do. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/350+ hrs On Jun 30, 2007, at 4:47 PM, kurt schrader wrote: > > > --- Andy Fultz wrote: > >> Good afternoon guys. I'm about to embark on what I >> hope to be the final big >> step in the build process. I THINK I'm ready to >> cover and paint my project....... >> >> Andy Fultz > > Hi Andy, > > Don't know the particulars of your plane, but make > sure you provide access to everything for maintenance > before you cover. > > On my S-5 I missed using blind nuts on a few places > like the baggage floor and rudder peddle mounts. Much > harder to work on once covered. To remove the rudder > peddles, I needed to remove the firewall and > everything on it! Check for stuff like that first. > Not everything is best done by the plans. > > Kurt S. > S-5/NSI turbo > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:26 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperons Regular paint thinner (mineral spirits) soaked into paper towels laid on the flaperons for a few hours is a pretty "fume-free" way to soften the film. It will then pull off fairly easily. It's a time- consuming job, so find something else to do while they soak...but keep the towels wet. When I did mine after being covered for over 12 years, I did about a 4-foot section at a time. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/350+ hrs On Jun 30, 2007, at 11:36 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote: >> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the >> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- >> gone". > > Check the archives; this has been a popular subject. > > > Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:38 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperons Even if you did, the hairdryer is probably not a good idea, due to the internal structure of the flaperon having some foam inside. I don't know how much temperature this foam will stand, or the adhesive that secures it all. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/350+ hrs On Jul 1, 2007, at 11:18 AM, wrote: > > I did check the archives,thought I mentioned that.Was just looking > for a quick and easy was to do it. Don't have a 11 year old > daughter with a hairdryer. Thanks to all who imputed. Leon Morris/ > classic 4 (94)/50%/ Flower Mound,TX Do not archive > ---- Guy Buchanan wrote: >> >> At 06:40 AM 6/30/2007, you wrote: >>> Also,does anyone have a good way to remove the film from the >>> flaperons? I have tried WD 40,paint prep and remover, and "goo-be- >>> gone". >> >> Check the archives; this has been a popular subject. >> >> >> Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator >> San Diego, CA >> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:13 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension Clem, I've flown both ways and for me, at least I don't seem to have a preference. I once put eyebolts on the tabs to straighten the spring angle, but it put a definite tension in the system and I didn't like the looseness that resulted from adding an additional chain link on both sides. I felt the tension would be a potential problem as the bottom hinge is a bronze bushed rod end fitting, I didn't feel comfortable with that much tenison continually on it. One other thought, In times past some have had the springs come off the tabs and it is prudent to safety wire the loop to resist the spring loop from popping out or the hole in the tab or off the chain. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp 1998 850 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clem Nichols" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 4:07 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension A friend of mine is ready to begin ground-testing of a Model IV 1050 he's recently completed. His plane has a Maule tail-wheel, and the way it's set up there is no tension on the springs. I don't know what type of tail wheel mine has, but it's obviously different, and the springs are taut. He was asking me if his should be tightened, and I couldn't answer him because I don't know. I taxied his plane some today the way it's set up, and didn't notice any problem at either slow or fairly high speed (enough to get the tail wheel up). I told him I would pose his question to the list, and pass along your advice. Thanks. Clem Nichols Model IV 1200 Subaru EA-81 Munfordville, Ky. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:42 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension Paul: "Very interesting", to quote one of the characters on an old TV comedy program from years ago. Based on what you say my plane has the Maule tail wheel, and his has something else. I was merely quoting him when I said he had the Maule. (Pardon my ignorance.) His springs are the same on each side, and any force they exert is the result of being stretched rather than compressed. One end of the spring is attached to the arm on the tail wheel, and the other to a chain which is attached to the rudder arm. The setup is pretty "sloppy" as you put it, but because of the strength of the springs it will take some type of tool to stretch them enough that he can take a link out of the chains. In any event it certainly appears to me that they're too loose, although as I said in my initial posting I didn't detect any problem when taxiing the plane today. Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension I also have the maule setup. They use compression springs, they are handed left and right. No tension to light tension ok, but not slopy. Too much lag. I put the homebuilder tail wheel on and love it compared to the hard solid maule wheel. 30 bucks plus you need new bearings its the way to go. Paul P Model IV Rotax 912 http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matro nics.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:59 PM PST US From: "Clem Nichols" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension Lowell: Certainly good advice re the bronze hinge and the safety wire. Thanks. Clem Nichols ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Tail Wheel spring tension > > Clem, > > I've flown both ways and for me, at least I don't seem to have a > preference. I once put eyebolts on the tabs to straighten the spring > angle, but it put a definite tension in the system and I didn't like the > looseness that resulted from adding an additional chain link on both > sides. I felt the tension would be a potential problem as the bottom > hinge is a bronze bushed rod end fitting, I didn't feel comfortable with > that much tenison continually on it. > > One other thought, In times past some have had the springs come off the > tabs and it is prudent to safety wire the loop to resist the spring loop > from popping out or the hole in the tab or off the chain. > > Lowell Fitt > Cameron Park, CA > Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp > 1998 850 hrs. > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:41 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Kitfox-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Kitfox-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kitfox-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: kitfox-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "kitfox-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfox-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kitfox-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:40 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.