---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/06/07: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - Re: wheel penetrating ski (Michel Verheughe) 2. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Flaperons (Mdkitfox@aol.com) 3. 09:40 AM - Fuel Transfer (Charles Bloom) 4. 10:23 AM - Throttle cables (Barry West) 5. 10:28 AM - Re: Fuel Transfer (clemwehner) 6. 10:41 AM - [OFF-TOPIC] Jack L Bell (Michel Verheughe) 7. 12:11 PM - Re: off topic...Big Rapids fly-in (Lynn Matteson) 8. 12:44 PM - Re: Fuel Transfer (Marco Menezes) 9. 01:23 PM - Re: Fuel Transfer (Tom Jones) 10. 01:40 PM - Re: Fuel Transfer (Noel Loveys) 11. 01:43 PM - Re: Cabin Covers (W Duke) 12. 01:48 PM - Re: Fuel Transfer (W Duke) 13. 03:56 PM - Re: Cabin covers (kurt schrader) 14. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Transfer (john oakley) 15. 04:34 PM - M1 to M2 wings? (Rexinator) 16. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Transfer (paul wilson) 17. 07:42 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Transfer (paul wilson) 18. 08:40 PM - Re: M1 to M2 wings? (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:11 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: wheel penetrating ski > From: Malcolmbru@aol.com > Can anyone foreword a set of plans for wheel ski's If I get started now I > may have a set ready by Christmas mal Here is what I made, Malcom: http://home.online.no/~michel/tmp/SkiFox.pdf And here are some photos of it: http://home.online.no/~michel/ski/ Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:27 AM PST US From: Mdkitfox@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaperons In a message dated 7/4/2007 1:06:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fox5flyer@idealwifi.net writes: This is an old topic that rears up every so often and you're correct, it's the UV that is causing the plastic to get brittle. Deke, I want to agree, but my flaperons were kept on a shelf in our basement for 12 years before I removed the covering. They never saw sunlight and I still had the problem. However there was a period of a few days, when they may have been exposed to UV. Are we to conclude the brittleness occurs very quickly with sunlight contact. If so the recommendation should be to remove the covering immediately when the flaperons are received. Just my 2 cents. DO NOT ARCHIVE Rick Weiss, Series V, 912S ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:04 AM PST US From: "Charles Bloom" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer I am having trouble getting fuel from my wing tanks to transfer to the main tank. I put forward facing tubes from the fuel caps into the airstream but they don't seem to pressurize the tanks enough to permit transfer. I was thinking of putting siphon bulbs such as from boat remote tanks into the fuel lines in the cabin. I would appreciate any other ideas. Chuck Bloom Missoula, MT Kitfox Model 1 #8 Rotax 503 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:56 AM PST US From: "Barry West" Subject: Kitfox-List: Throttle cables Trouble with my Model IV Kitfox with the 912S. I need to replace the throttle cables. Has anyone had experience with replacing the cables without having to replace the whole mechanism? Let me know. Barry West ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:22 AM PST US From: "clemwehner" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer This comes up every few years. About 6-8 years ago we had a discussion about increasing the pressure in the tanks. I did an experiment of taking a fuel cap and putting a little funnel on the end of the tube facing into the wind. I hooked my airspeed indicator to the tube, then used my leaf blower and blew air at it at 80 MPH. Then I took the funnel off and the airspeed went down. Funnel on-more airspeed, funnel off-less airspeed. The funnel seems to catch more wind and increase the pressure in the fuel cap tube. Try it yourself. I used little plastic funnels that my doc gave me. They go on the little scope that he looks into your ears with), but you could make a little funnel out of anything, even cardboard to try the experiment. Clem Wehner (the other Clem) Hmmmm, what's the chances of 2 Clems on this list? KFIV,912 Lawton OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Bloom Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 11:38 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer I am having trouble getting fuel from my wing tanks to transfer to the main tank. I put forward facing tubes from the fuel caps into the airstream but they don't seem to pressurize the tanks enough to permit transfer. I was thinking of putting siphon bulbs such as from boat remote tanks into the fuel lines in the cabin. I would appreciate any other ideas. Chuck Bloom Missoula, MT Kitfox Model 1 #8 Rotax 503 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:25 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: [OFF-TOPIC] Jack L Bell Jack, I tried twice to answer your direct email but it bounced back. Sorry. My answer was: No, my Jabiru engine has the serial nr. 1665 and therefore not an old one and if the prop sounds short in diameter, remember that it is a straight cut tip and not a rounded tip like the Sensinich. You can't just compare diameter across manufacturers. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:51 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: off topic...Big Rapids fly-in I didn't make Big Rapids either...weather looked too bad. But I'm ready, willing, and able for a "upper-Midwest/ Great Lakes kitfox fly-in"...let me know. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/350+ hrs On Jul 4, 2007, at 3:20 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > I had planned on it since Big Rapids is just a short hop from my > home base. Unfortunately, it was raining this morning, low ceilings > and forecast is for more of the same all day. Incidently, Big > Rapids airport (KRQB) manager would love to host an upper-Midwest/ > Great Lakes kitfox fly-in. He says they could offer "incentives," > whatever that means. Anyone interested? > > fox5flyer wrote: --> Kitfox-List message > posted by: "fox5flyer" > > Wish I could join the group and thanks for letting me know, but I have > people coming and much to do to get ready. Have fun. > Deke Morisse ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:33 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer Hi Charles. What happens when you try to blow through the fuel cap vents? Charles Bloom wrote: I am having trouble getting fuel from my wing tanks to transfer to the main tank. I put forward facing tubes from the fuel caps into the airstream but they don't seem to pressurize the tanks enough to permit transfer. I was thinking of putting siphon bulbs such as from boat remote tanks into the fuel lines in the cabin. I would appreciate any other ideas. Chuck Bloom Missoula, MT Kitfox Model 1 #8 Rotax 503 Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:41 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Transfer From: "Tom Jones" Chuck, My fuel transfer is too slow to suit me also, and the wing tank flow stops easily, especially when the fuel is low. The transfer flow varies from about 8 to 13 gallons per hour. I have a right wing tank that transfers to the panel tank. The fuel line is 1/4 in. ID urathane. The line runs from the wing tank forward above the door and down the diagonal fuselage tube to the panel tank. There is a shut off valve and an in line filter in the line. The panel tank vent line runs to the top of the wing tank. I think the in line filter is restricting the flow some but believe the biggest cause of the problem is not enough down slope in the line from the tank to where it starts down the diagonal tube. The kitfox fuel systems that I know of that worked well all ran the fuel line from the wing tank imediately down behind the seat, forward under the seat and door then back up to the panel tank. I have not gone with that route because I don't like the idea of that significant low spot in the line that could collect water and maybe even freeze. I keep looking for some 5/16 ID urathane fuel line to try but no luck so far. There is plenty of 5/16 rubber fuel line on the market but I am using premix oil in the fuel and have heard that the oil will deterioriate the rubber fueline. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122543#122543 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_line_2_710.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_line_1_185.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:34 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer By main tank I assume you mean a panel tank. It may need a vent, possibly rear facing above the level of the wing tank to allow fuel to flow down into it. Do you have a vent on your main tank? Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA Aerocet 1100s noelloveys@yahoo.ca Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Bloom Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer I am having trouble getting fuel from my wing tanks to transfer to the main tank. I put forward facing tubes from the fuel caps into the airstream but they don't seem to pressurize the tanks enough to permit transfer. I was thinking of putting siphon bulbs such as from boat remote tanks into the fuel lines in the cabin. I would appreciate any other ideas. Chuck Bloom Missoula, MT Kitfox Model 1 #8 Rotax 503 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:26 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cabin Covers I have the Skystar variety and it is great for sun block but is not water proof. I would have preferred water proof. It folds down to the size of a LARGE purse. Maxwell S6 TD IO240 Dexter GA jdmcbean wrote: Grant, Not sure but the covers are slightly different today then what Sam Knight offers.. Not sure what Kennon offers.. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tinne maha Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:24 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Cabin Covers I'm in the market for a cabin cover for my Series 5. Weight, Volume, Cost & Sun Resistance will be the deciding factors. I see three options (Sam Knight @ $225, Kitfox A/C @ $350 and Kennon @ $395) Any others? Any recommendations from happy or unhappy customers? Any used ones someone is looking to get rid of? Feel free to contact me on or off list. Grant Krueger Series 5 _________________________________________________________________ 1:40 PM 1:40 PM Maxwell Duke S6/IO240/Phase II Flight Testing --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:47 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Transfer I suspect something is wrong with your system. Gravity should feed the main tank and I would hesitate to depend on anything else. I would check every line into and out of every tank for obstruction. I think you will find one some where. Fluid will flow down hill if it has vacuum relief above. Maxwell S6 TD IO240 Marco Menezes wrote: Hi Charles. What happens when you try to blow through the fuel cap vents? Charles Bloom wrote: I am having trouble getting fuel from my wing tanks to transfer to the main tank. I put forward facing tubes from the fuel caps into the airstream but they don't seem to pressurize the tanks enough to permit transfer. I was thinking of putting siphon bulbs such as from boat remote tanks into the fuel lines in the cabin. I would appreciate any other ideas. Chuck Bloom Missoula, MT Kitfox Model 1 #8 Rotax 503 --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:34 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cabin covers Don't foreget that you can Scotch Guard the outside of your cover for some water protection. An $8 can doesn't last forever, but it is pretty cheap compared to replacing the cover and it will repell water for quite a while between treatments. Kurt Schrader S-5/NSI turbo Florida and panama Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:00 PM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Transfer I put a "t" in the line at the low spot and installed a fuel drain at that point" John Oakley "I have not gone with that route because I don't like the idea of that significant low spot in the line that could collect water and maybe even freeze." ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:50 PM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Kitfox-List: M1 to M2 wings? Can a model 1 wing replace a model 2 wing? Given that the model 1 gross is 850 lbs. and the model 2 gross is 950 lbs. what part if any within the wing structure must be changed to convert a model 1 wing to a model 2? -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:47 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Transfer Very true especially if you have a non standard header tank. The M4 header has a low point over an inch below the outlet so a tee in the outlet line should present no problem. Paul ================ At 04:58 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote: > >I put a "t" in the line at the low spot and installed a fuel drain at that >point" >John Oakley > >"I have not gone with that route because I don't like the idea of that >significant low spot in the line that could collect water and maybe even >freeze." > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:47 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Transfer You are correct that you have resistance to flow in your gravity lines. Technically 3/8" would be the proper size. I think the manufacturer is way marginal with the specified 5/16" lines. Anyway make sure you have no high points where a a vapor/air bubble can collect, and that the line gradually goes down hill. Of course nobody uses rubber for fuel lines. Regular automotive fuel lines are pretty impervious to any hydrocarbons like 2-stroke oil. Go to the auto store and get SAE R-7 hose in as big as is practical for your application. If you have a filter between the tank and the header, please remove it, and same for the valve. Very bad practice to have pressure loss devices in a critical place as a gravity feed system. If you think you must have a valve go to a 3/8" size as it orifice should be adequate. The hardware store valves work fine, just find the correct fitting to adapt to the chosen hose. Last of all make sure your vend is free of any restrictions. Regards, Paul ============================= At 02:20 PM 7/6/2007, you wrote: > >Chuck, >My fuel transfer is too slow to suit me also, and the wing tank flow >stops easily, especially when the fuel is low. The transfer flow >varies from about 8 to 13 gallons per hour. > >I have a right wing tank that transfers to the panel tank. The fuel >line is 1/4 in. ID urathane. The line runs from the wing tank >forward above the door and down the diagonal fuselage tube to the >panel tank. There is a shut off valve and an in line filter in the >line. The panel tank vent line runs to the top of the wing tank. > >I think the in line filter is restricting the flow some but believe >the biggest cause of the problem is not enough down slope in the >line from the tank to where it starts down the diagonal tube. > >The kitfox fuel systems that I know of that worked well all ran the >fuel line from the wing tank imediately down behind the seat, >forward under the seat and door then back up to the panel tank. I >have not gone with that route because I don't like the idea of that >significant low spot in the line that could collect water and maybe >even freeze. > >I keep looking for some 5/16 ID urathane fuel line to try but no >luck so far. There is plenty of 5/16 rubber fuel line on the market >but I am using premix oil in the fuel and have heard that the oil >will deterioriate the >rubber fueline. > >-------- >Tom Jones >Classic IV, Phase one >503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp >Ellensburg, WA > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=122543#122543 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_line_2_710.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_line_1_185.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:38 PM PST US From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: M1 to M2 wings? Hi Rex, good question, I also wonder what if anything is different about them and how can you tell one model from another. I've heard that some of the wing spars were extruded aluminum with a stiffener as an intragal part of the spar. I've seen wings that were from either a model 1 or 2 (not sure which one though) that had a Z shaped stiffener and then I've also seen model 3 wings that have a I shaped stiffener in them. Of course the model 4 and later have a flat bottom so I guess we are only talking about the wings with a concave bottom. One thing about the differences between the wings with the Z shaped and the I shaped stiffeners, the Z has a single row of poprivits top and bottom and the I shaped stiffener wing has a double row of poprivits through the spar into the stiffener. Hopefully someone that has built wings with these different stiffners (mainly the Z shaped ones) will post what model that style wing was in. Thanks, Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Chsiholm Mn >From: Rexinator >To: Kitfox >Subject: Kitfox-List: M1 to M2 wings? >Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:27:01 -0600 > > >Can a model 1 wing replace a model 2 wing? >Given that the model 1 gross is 850 lbs. and the model 2 gross is 950 lbs. >what part if any within the wing structure must be changed to convert a >model 1 wing to a model 2? > >-- >Rex Hefferan >SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs > > _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.