---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/18/07: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:02 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Dash Board (W Duke) 2. 05:03 AM - Re: oshkosh meeting (Peter Graichen) 3. 05:46 AM - Re: Instrument Panel Dash Board (Jim Crockett) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (kitfoxmike) 5. 06:57 AM - Master Relay (jareds) 6. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (Paul Seehafer) 7. 07:56 AM - Re: Master Relay (Rick) 8. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (john oakley) 9. 08:31 AM - tiny Tach for a 912? (Don G) 10. 08:37 AM - Re: Master Relay (Giovanni Day) 11. 08:53 AM - Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (Don G) 12. 09:00 AM - Re: oshkosh (jdmcbean) 13. 09:15 AM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (kitfoxmike) 14. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (Paul Seehafer) 15. 09:24 AM - Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (kitfoxmike) 16. 09:25 AM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (Don G) 17. 10:25 AM - Re: oshkosh (Marco Menezes) 18. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Master Relay (John W. Hart) 19. 11:41 AM - Re: Master Relay (Noel Loveys) 20. 12:07 PM - Re: Mystery Rivets (flier) 21. 12:11 PM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (Noel Loveys) 22. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Master Relay (Noel Loveys) 23. 12:29 PM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 24. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Master Relay (jareds) 25. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Mystery Rivets (kurt schrader) 26. 02:02 PM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (kitfoxmike) 27. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM (john oakley) 28. 02:47 PM - Re: tiny Tach for a 912? (Torgeir Mortensen) 29. 05:24 PM - Re: oshkosh (kirk hull) 30. 05:44 PM - instrument panel color (Brent E Bidus) 31. 05:57 PM - Re: oshkosh (jdmcbean) 32. 06:20 PM - Re: instrument panel color (kirk hull) 33. 06:35 PM - Re: instrument panel color (W Duke) 34. 06:47 PM - Re: instrument panel color (kurt schrader) 35. 06:49 PM - Re: instrument panel color (Trey Moran) 36. 07:03 PM - Re: instrument panel color (Dee Young) 37. 08:26 PM - Re: instrument panel color (Noel Loveys) 38. 08:45 PM - Re: instrument panel color (clemwehner) 39. 08:55 PM - Re: instrument panel color (jerry evans) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:25 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Instrument Panel Dash Board I used the same thin fabric supplied by Sam Knight for covering the center console. I also got some sort of tear drop shaped rubber edging to ease the edge. That kept the fibers from looking bare at the sharp corners. 500 hrs and 4 years later it still looks good. Hangared. I'm getting ready to finish and install the instrument panel fiberglass dash board supplied by Skystar for my modified model IV. Anybody out there have any suggestions for finshing the dash, eg leather, vinyl, carpet, painted etc. I'm leaning towards some kind of thin carpet, but not sure where to get some or how to install. Thanks in advance for any suggestions -------- Dan Mc Intyre Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124369#124369 Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:37 AM PST US From: "Peter Graichen" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh meeting Hi all: I'll be at OSH for the entire week. In the past we have met at Acee Deucee's. Pick a convenient day, and we'll meet there after the show. Peter Graichen http:/home.neo.rr.com/n10pg/kitfox.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Crowder Sent: Tuesday, 17 July, 2007 23:37 Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh My current plans are to be there Wed. and Thurs. I would like to be kept up on any plans. Jim Crowder Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Any one going to osh this year and want to get together for dinner? Or is there already a Kitfox dinner planned? If anyone is interested respond by email before sat on my cell is 816-686-3719 and I will have it in osh 205AK (red and black classic4) will be in homebuilt parking but I am staying at the Y ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:03 AM PST US From: Jim Crockett Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Instrument Panel Dash Board If you want to use thin carpet on the glare shield, the auto supply stores usually carry it. I used it on the doors and attached it with Liquid Nails. You can cut the glare shield so that it has about a half inch or so of overhang and then use pipe insulation to fit over that, leaving a nice round edging across the top of the panel. Use the black sponge rubber-type insulation, not the gray foam stuff. It has a red strip over the sticky side where it's split, and that will attach to the shield. I just painted mine flat black. Jim Crockett Kitfox V/912UL W Duke wrote: > I used the same thin fabric supplied by Sam Knight for covering the > center console. I also got some sort of tear drop shaped rubber > edging to ease the edge. That kept the fibers from looking bare at > the sharp corners. 500 hrs and 4 years later it still looks good. > Hangared. > > */DanM /* wrote: > > > I'm getting ready to finish and install the instrument panel > fiberglass dash board supplied by Skystar for my modified model > IV. Anybody out there have any suggestions for finshing the dash, > eg leather, vinyl, carpet, painted etc. I'm leaning towards some > kind of thin carpet, but not sure where to get some or how to install. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions > > -------- > Dan Mc Intyre > Kitfox Model IV, Jab > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your > story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > > * > > > * > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:03 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM From: "kitfoxmike" Now here is my scoop. I don't let mine run past 5400 rpm. On climb out I will let it go to 5800, but just briefly, I will set the rpm with the elevator, not the prop. I want to get it up there so to speak. If I don't need the elevation, already at 1000agl, then I'm leveling and I'm setting the prop(you know, inflight adjust). As I level out the rpm's will increase of course, so I put in a little more adjust on the prop, I keep it at 5400rpm. I keep the throttle all the way in, call it what you want. If the rpm doesn't go over 5400 rpm you can run it all day like that. I've talked to a lot of people about this and they say it's OK, and not other pilots either. Now with my engine 912ul (80) if you have it set at 5400 rpm or 5000 rpm, the ground speed doesn't change, in fact it might loose a little going to a lower rpm, but it will run smoother. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124537#124537 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:56 AM PST US From: jareds Subject: Kitfox-List: Master Relay I have had a battery drain on my 582 for years and the last time i troubleshot it seemed like it wasn't any instrement because they all ran through the master relay. Has anyone substituted a NAPA start relay for the electrical system before? Or are they all the same? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:46 AM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM Giovanni, I've found with my Kitfox IV-1200 912ul on amphib floats (with an IVO inflight adust prop) that it goes the fastest with the throttle wide open and the prop set for a 5400-5500 rpm, which is the max continuous horsepower for the 912 (all 79 hp!) Yes, get some of those fairings on your airplane, as I fly 90 mph+ at 5000 rpm, and I'm on floats with long wings! I've attached a panel shot to inspire you. If my long wing kitfox on floats can fly this fast on floats, your speedster should definitely go faster... And here's a pic of my plane in flight. It's a neat little Kitfox, but it can be cleaned up significantly yet. I have wing strut and horizontal stabilizer strut fairings, but nothing on the jury struts, no gap seals, poor fit around vertical fin to stab fairing, and no radiator fairing. Once I do all that I expect I will go faster yet! Paul Seehafer Kitfox IV-1200 912ul on Aerocet amphibs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giovanni Day" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:31 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM > > Did a little flying ad testing this afternoon. 5000RPM get me 3.7gph burn > and 90mph indicated which is very close to ground speed with 0 wind. I had > not tried WOT in straight and level. I am able to over rev the motor. I > hit 5800 and about 110 mph. I say about because I had to back off to keep > from over revving the engine. I think I need to add at least a degree of > pitch. I read somewhere that to prolong the engine life of a 912ul one > should not rev higher than 5500 even on climb out. I will add the pitch > and see what happens. > > I am looking at a set of the PVC strut fairing now. > > Keep the good info coming. > > Thanks > > -------- > _______________________________________ > Giovanni Day > Model 4 speedster 912 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124517#124517 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:41 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Master Relay When active they both have a draw. The starter rely may draw more because of the heavier contacts , not real sure, but both are electro magnets pulling a spring loaded contact. If you are getting a voltage draw when not on something could be amiss there or else where in your system. Hope that helps a little. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jareds Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Master Relay I have had a battery drain on my 582 for years and the last time i troubleshot it seemed like it wasn't any instrement because they all ran through the master relay. Has anyone substituted a NAPA start relay for the electrical system before? Or are they all the same? 7/17/2007 6:30 PM 7/17/2007 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:56 AM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM Paul Seehafer What a great looking fox, now I want to go and find a new set of floats to go on mine... John Oakley ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:58 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? From: "Don G" Some time back, I remember Fred asking about the model of a tiny tach for a 912. Never did find a response. Anbody know which model tiny tach to use for a 912 UL? Just how does this ignition fire anyway? 1 spark per rev?....2 sparks per rev? 1 every 4?...hmmm -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124564#124564 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:53 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay From: "Giovanni Day" What ever relay you use you need to make sure it is intended for continual use. Most automotive starter relays are not intended for more than a few minutes use at a time. -------- _______________________________________ Giovanni Day Model 4 speedster 912 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124566#124566 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM From: "Don G" Mike, Tell me more of these "Self adjusting" farings! specifically, down at the bottom near the fuse were they come together, how did you fashion them in regards to clearance/interferance? Do they rattle or vibrate any in flight? Do they ever get "out of whack" and stay there in flight? Any wear problems noticed? This sounds like the perfect way to overcome the problem of trying to decide what angle of attach to mount the strut covers. -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124569#124569 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:56 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Kitfox dinner is planned for Friday, July 27th .. Come see us at the booth for the details.. We are in the North Aircraft display Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Any one going to osh this year and want to get together for dinner? Or is there already a Kitfox dinner planned? If anyone is interested respond by email before sat on my cell is 816-686-3719 and I will have it in osh 205AK (red and black classic4) will be in homebuilt parking but I am staying at the Y 6:30 PM 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:54 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: tiny Tach for a 912? From: "kitfoxmike" they are a piece of junk, I got one and could never get it to work right, I gave up and threw it in the corner of the hangar. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124579#124579 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:39 AM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM John, Thanks. I like it alot too. And regarding those new floats....you might be in luck as I am in the process of building floats just like we need for our airplanes. Has been a much bigger project than I ever guessed, but I'm getting there (after flying floats for over 20 years mostly in Foxes and Avids, I want them to be everything the other choices aren't. So it's taking a little longer to get it right). But it will be worth the wait. Should have my first set out this fall. I'll keep everyone posted as I progress. Yeah, these foxes make quite the float plane. Nothing but unbelieveable, inexpensive fun!!!!! If any of you floatplane enthusiasts are interested, I put up a post about my Kitfox performance info on our adjoining list seaplane-list@matronics.com on July 9th. You might want to check that out. Also has a few pics. If you don't like to read that much (smile), just check out the pics...it's what we do for fun here in Wisconsin on nice summer days. Hey, we have 14,000 lakes to splash around in.... And on a last note, I run EAA's seaplane base at Oshkosh. So if you are attending the big show, come out and see us. Cost $2 to ride the bus roundtrip from the airport. Nice relaxed atmosphere with a lot of seaplanes to look at. We also have pontoon boat tours of the planes on their moorings so you can get a little closer. And we have a good food vendor right there as well. Always a good time. Paul Seehafer Kitfox IV-1200 912ul on Aerocet amphibs AirVenture Seaplane Base Chairman ----- Original Message ----- From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM > Paul Seehafer > What a great looking fox, now I want to go and find a new set of floats to > go on mine... > > John Oakley ----- Original Message ----- From: "john oakley" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM > > > Paul Seehafer > What a great looking fox, now I want to go and find a new set of floats to > go on mine... > > John Oakley > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM From: "kitfoxmike" they are the pvc type that I got from skystar. I just cut them as needed at the fuse and at different areas. They say to glue them into place, I didn't, I just snapped them together and that was all. I stumbled across the fact that they center on their own by accident. I wanted to put a different deflection on them and when I landed they went back to where they were previously. I deducted that they will center out in the stream to where they need to go. I've had mine on for about 600hrs now. I hear that John sells them, I really like mine, I didn't paint them either, since my plane is white, it all matches just fine. They clean real easy, spray a little window cleaner(for glass, I save my plexus for the wind screen) on them and the bugs wipe right off. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124580#124580 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:16 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: tiny Tach for a 912? From: "Don G" Mike, They cant be to good, they are so cheap...but then this Rotax tach I have is at least 200 rpms off and it costs like he!! I have a Sendec on my boat and I think I might try to put it on the 912. still trying to figure out its programming! Hey, did you see my post on the strut covers you have? Tell me more about the "self Adjusting" feature...et...not fastening them down tite. Do they vibrate of rattle in flight? any wear noticable? Do they ever get "out of whack" in flight and stay there? How about donw at the bottom where the struts come together?..how did you dashion them for clearance?interferance? This seems to be a great answer to trying to decide what angle of attach to attach them! Thx! -------- Don G. Central Illinois Kitfox IV Speedster Luscombe 8A http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124581#124581 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:42 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh I plan to be there Monday thru Thurs, a.m. Camping under the wing in homebuilt camping. White over orange Model 2 - N99KX. Call me with plans to meet. (231) 250-9711. Any one going to osh this year and want to get together for dinner? Or is there already a Kitfox dinner planned? If anyone is interested respond by email before sat on my cell is 816-686-3719 and I will have it in osh 205AK (red and black classic4) will be in homebuilt parking but I am staying at the Y Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:51 AM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay Additional comment: Constant current relays (some folks call them solenoids or "battery isolator relays") that look like the starter relays (but are internally different) can often be purchased at Recreation Vehicle Parts sales. They are often used to disconnect the tow vehicle electrical system from the trailer DC electrical system so when the tow vehicle ignition is turned off to prevent discharging the tow vehicle battery while using the RV. They work quite nicely as a master bus relay on small aircraft. John Hart Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Giovanni Day Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:38 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay What ever relay you use you need to make sure it is intended for continual use. Most automotive starter relays are not intended for more than a few minutes use at a time. -------- _______________________________________ Giovanni Day Model 4 speedster 912 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124566#124566 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:51 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Master Relay It depends on the way your plane is wired... If everything is wired down stream of the master relay the only place to get a drop will be somewhere between the positive battery lug on the master and the energized lug. Power may go from the positive battery lug to the master switch and then return to the energizer lug. However several relays are pre wired to an extent with a jumper from the battery lug to the energizer coil and then you energize the relay by grounding the starter lug. Basically it all depends. I don't suppose you drew up a wiring diagram when you originally wired the plane? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jareds > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:59 AM > To: kitfox@sportflight.com kitfox@sportflight.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Master Relay > > > > I have had a battery drain on my 582 for years and the last time i > troubleshot it seemed like it wasn't any instrement because > they all ran > through the master relay. Has anyone substituted a NAPA > start relay for > the electrical system before? Or are they all the same? > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:45 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mystery Rivets From: "flier" Not sure I can figure out the failure mode that could cause a crash due to ANY kind of rivet being used to attach the butt ribs to the brackets?? [Rolling Eyes] I wouldn't go switching out the SS rivets for the lift strut brackets on the spars but pretty much any rivet can be used successfully to secure lexan to the doors, etc. whether it's from Aircraft Spruce or the hardware store. Regards, Ted Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124620#124620 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:36 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? 1 spark every 720 deg. (certified engines) That is why impulse couplers work. As far as I know all the auto conversions are the same. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don G > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:01 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? > > > > Some time back, I remember Fred asking about the model of a > tiny tach for a 912. Never did find a response. Anbody know > which model tiny tach to use for a 912 UL? > > Just how does this ignition fire anyway? > 1 spark per rev?....2 sparks per rev? 1 every 4?...hmmm > > -------- > Don G. > Central Illinois > Kitfox IV Speedster > Luscombe 8A > > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124564#124564 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:33 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay A good source for master relays is from the RV dealers. Similar relays are used to connect auxiliary batteries. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Giovanni Day > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:08 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay > > > > What ever relay you use you need to make sure it is intended > for continual use. Most automotive starter relays are not > intended for more than a few minutes use at a time. > > -------- > _______________________________________ > Giovanni Day > Model 4 speedster 912 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124566#124566 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:54 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? I believe that the 912 is different from auto converstions with a firing every 360 degrees. I have heard the term lost or wasted spark. The plugs fire on both the compression and exhaust stroke as I understand the operation. I could be wrong though, electricity is a black art. Switching load, switching ground, all sorts of things. Does one ever really knows which way the current is flowing? And when you figure out that 3-fingered diagram then you can start on the Bing carburetor and their 3 or is 4 different but interrelated circuits. John Kerr -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Noel Loveys" > > 1 spark every 720 deg. (certified engines) That is why impulse couplers > work. As far as I know all the auto conversions are the same. > > Noel > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don G > > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:01 PM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? > > > > > > > > Some time back, I remember Fred asking about the model of a > > tiny tach for a 912. Never did find a response. Anbody know > > which model tiny tach to use for a 912 UL? > > > > Just how does this ignition fire anyway? > > 1 spark per rev?....2 sparks per rev? 1 every 4?...hmmm > > > > -------- > > Don G. > > Central Illinois > > Kitfox IV Speedster > > Luscombe 8A > > > > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124564#124564 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
I believe that the 912 is different from auto converstions with a firing every 360 degrees.  I have heard the term lost or wasted spark. The plugs fire on both the compression and exhaust stroke as I understand the operation. 
 
I could be wrong though, electricity  is a black art.  Switching load, switching ground, all sorts of things.  Does one ever really knows which way the current is flowing?
 
And when you figure out that 3-fingered diagram then you can start on the Bing carburetor and their 3 or is 4 different but interrelated circuits.
 
John Kerr
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys"
>
> 1 spark every 720 deg. (certified engines) That is why impulse couplers
> work. As far as I know all the auto conversions are the same.
>
> Noel
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don G
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:01 PM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912?
> >
> >
> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Don G"
> >
> > Some time back, I remember Fred asking about the m odel o > _
________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:35 PM PST US From: jareds Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Relay That is exactly the feedback i was looking for.... I thought i remembered a difference but was not sure and certainly an auto parts store start relay would not be for continual use so i need to keep that in mind when i search Giovanni Day wrote: > >What ever relay you use you need to make sure it is intended for continual use. Most automotive starter relays are not intended for more than a few minutes use at a time. > >-------- >_______________________________________ >Giovanni Day >Model 4 speedster 912 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124566#124566 > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:31 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Mystery Rivets --- flier wrote: > Not sure I can figure out the failure mode that > could cause a crash due to ANY kind of rivet being > used to attach the butt ribs to the brackets?? > [Rolling Eyes] > > I wouldn't go switching out the SS rivets for the > lift strut brackets on the spars but pretty much any > rivet can be used successfully to secure lexan to > the doors, etc. whether it's from Aircraft Spruce or > the hardware store. > > Regards, > > Ted ---------------------------------------------------- Sorry Ted. I have to disagree. There have been several cases of the upper canopy section explosively blowing up from failure of the butt rib caps letting go. There is a lot of lift over the top window augmented by the prop blast. These butt ribs are as important as any wing rib, but with you right underneath. If one fails in any way, it will at least scare the heck out of you and disrupt the airflow back to the tail. Not good during a critical phase of flight. I reinforced the butt rib caps on my plane due to the advise and experience that came from this list and I am very thankful for it. I wouldn't recommend risking unknown rivits here either. These ribs are not mounted to the spars like the others. All you have are those rivets. That is not to say that I don't have a lot of "roadkill" on my plane, but I keep it in low risk places. For example I used aluminum 1/4 inch bolts instead of a steel ones to hold a one pound item in place. The bolt fits the hole, but doesn't need to carry 8000 lbs, so I went for light weight instead. Save weight, but don't compromise strength. By the way, the item was my master solenoid, since we are on that subject. Kurt Schrader S-5/NSI turbo Florida and Panama Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: tiny Tach for a 912? From: "kitfoxmike" I made sure I had the right one, the factory for these things sent it to me, I couldn't get a proper rpm reading, they said add more wire and wrap the plug wire some more, I did, didn't work. So I chucked it. There is another one out there that is better, just can't think of the name. On the strut fairings, I installed them as per instructions, they slip over the struts and snap in the back, they say to glue them in place, I didn't, they work great and center on their own in flight. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=124649#124649 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:02 PM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 912UL max and cruise RPM Paul Seehafer, Thanks for the note and the picture, i love it. I have been missing my floats and am need of a fix. Please keep me advised and any pictures or info ect. Would be appreciated. I really want to get on floats! John Oakley And regarding those new floats.... ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: tiny Tach for a 912? From: "Torgeir Mortensen" > On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:26:47 +0200, wrote: > I believe that the 912 is different from auto converstions with a firing > every 360 degrees. I have heard the term lost or wasted spark. The > plugs fire on both the compression and exhaust stroke as I understand > the operation. > > I could be wrong though, electricity is a black art. Switching load, > switching ground, all sorts of things. Does one ever really knows which > way the current is flowing? > > And when you figure out that 3-fingered diagram then you can start on > the Bing carburetor and their 3 or is 4 different but interrelated > circuits. > > John Kerr Right you are John, The Rotax use the "wasted" spark ignition system, for both the two strokes and the four strokes! As a four stroke need 720 deg between each "full" stroke, the spark will ignite every 360 deg. The two stroke need 360 for each stroke and will ignite every 180 deg. This is a real smart "setup" to obtain redundancy in a ignition system for our kind of use. Here is a little link to Wikipedia about such systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted_spark Cheers Torgeir Kitfox Model II, 1993 Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox Propeller: IVO UL 366Q Tromsoe NORWAY. Weather in Tromso right now: http://met.no/troms/index.html City map of Tromso: http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:04 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh I am not sure that I will be there all week but if I am I will be at the dinner. If some one was to set up something earlier could they use your booth as a place to leave that INFO -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Kitfox dinner is planned for Friday, July 27th .. Come see us at the booth for the details.. We are in the North Aircraft display Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Any one going to osh this year and want to get together for dinner? Or is there already a Kitfox dinner planned? If anyone is interested respond by email before sat on my cell is 816-686-3719 and I will have it in osh 205AK (red and black classic4) will be in homebuilt parking but I am staying at the Y 6:30 PM 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:39 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color From: Brent E Bidus Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:38 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Shouldn't be a problem... Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh I am not sure that I will be there all week but if I am I will be at the dinner. If some one was to set up something earlier could they use your booth as a place to leave that INFO -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Kitfox dinner is planned for Friday, July 27th .. Come see us at the booth for the details.. We are in the North Aircraft display Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: oshkosh Any one going to osh this year and want to get together for dinner? Or is there already a Kitfox dinner planned? If anyone is interested respond by email before sat on my cell is 816-686-3719 and I will have it in osh 205AK (red and black classic4) will be in homebuilt parking but I am staying at the Y 6:30 PM 6:30 PM 6:30 PM 6:30 PM ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:34 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Flat black would be the best. Really any color that is not shiny ( no gloss) will do fine. My fox is red and I have a flat black panel. Attached is a photo. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brent E Bidus Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:25 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color First time I saw a white panel I thought it was the greatest thing. Later read that what you want to stand out are the white markings on the gauges so that a dark panel is preferred. Made sense to me so I had mine powder coated a textured dark grey. I love it. They powdercoated the panel front back and inside the map box. A drop down for throttle quadrant and the control sticks all for 35 bucks. I think it was the best deal I got on any thing for the whole plane. Maxwell Brent E Bidus wrote: Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:16 PM PST US From: kurt schrader Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color My feeling when it comes to the instrument panel is that you want to see the instruments, not the panel. Pretty panels are ok for show, but harder to fly with. You might look at the stone simulated paints at the hardware store. Something with a lower glare and nice look that hides blemishes. Easy to spray on too. Just a thought. I used a medium gray and like how my panel came out. Attached is a small pic of it. Large pic available. Kurt Schrader S-5/NSI turbo Florida and Panama ================================================= --- Brent E Bidus wrote: > Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to > avoid when painting > the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow > but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, > > Brent Bidus > Classic 4/912 > Colorado Springs CO Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:07 PM PST US From: "Trey Moran" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Brent, my model 5 is red and yellow as well. Panel is dark grey and charcoal Trey ----- Original Message ----- From: Brent E Bidus To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:39 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color I used a Hammer Mill grey enamel. It goes with about any color with no glare in direct sun and shows no finger prints or dirt. You can also easily read the gauges and such. Dee Young Model II East Idaho Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Brent E Bidus To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:23 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color > Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:30 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Lucky Lindy used brushed aluminium.... I would use flat black... The flatter and blacker the better. I saw the Spirit of St Louis in the museum of air and space a couple of years ago. I wouldn't want to fly that plane for ten minutes let alone across the ocean! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Brent E Bidus > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:54 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color > > > > Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid > when painting > the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want > problems with glare. Thanks, > > Brent Bidus > Classic 4/912 > Colorado Springs CO > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:40 PM PST US From: "clemwehner" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Here's another alternative finish for the instrument panel. I covered my panel with a thin wood veneer, then stained it a dark mahogany color, then varnished it. My KF is red and the wood grain panel looks rich and nostalgic of early airplanes. I got the veneer at a wood supply shop and I picked through the stack until I found the grain that I wanted. It had an adhesive backing that stuck like crazy to the aluminum (cleaned well). It has not shown any signs of loosening in 10 years. Clem Wehner KFIV-912 Lawton, OK > > Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid > when painting > the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want > problems with glare. Thanks, > > Brent Bidus > Classic 4/912 > Colorado Springs CO > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:54 PM PST US From: jerry evans Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color On mine I used a counter top laminate ,thin not to heavy also put it on floor to match all in flat wood grain finish got it from Home Depot $12.00 kirk hull wrote: Flat black would be the best. Really any color that is not shiny ( no gloss) will do fine. My fox is red and I have a flat black panel. Attached is a photo. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brent E Bidus Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: instrument panel color Anyone have any thoughts on best colors or colors to avoid when painting the instrument panel? My airplane is red and yellow but don't want problems with glare. Thanks, Brent Bidus Classic 4/912 Colorado Springs CO Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. 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