Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (John W. Hart)
2. 08:38 AM - Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (akflyer)
3. 10:21 AM - Re: Spam: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (John W. Hart)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (jdmcbean)
5. 11:20 AM - Spam: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (akflyer)
6. 11:23 AM - Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (akflyer)
7. 11:41 AM - 2007 Factory Fly-In (jdmcbean)
8. 12:18 PM - Re: 2007 Factory Fly-In (john oakley)
9. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation (Lowell Fitt)
10. 03:13 PM - Mode C Transponder check (davyken@comcast.net)
11. 04:54 PM - Re: Mode C Transponder check (=?utf-8?B?TWlrZSBDaGFuZXk=?=)
12. 06:32 PM - Re: Mode C Transponder check (Glenn Horne)
13. 06:57 PM - How Big is the Hole? (Dan Billingsley)
14. 07:19 PM - Re: How Big is the Hole? (kentk)
15. 07:22 PM - Mode C Transponder check (prices) (Rexster)
16. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: How Big is the Hole? (Dan Billingsley)
17. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: How Big is the Hole? (Dan Billingsley)
18. 07:53 PM - Re: Jimmy Franklin Tape (kentk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
For what it's worth, FAR 1.1, General definitions, Light Sport Aircraft, is
quoted below:
Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or
powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet
the following:
(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than
(i) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation on
water; or
(ii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation on
water.
(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) of
not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea
level.
(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a
glider.
(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use
of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the
aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of
gravity.
(5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the
pilot.
(6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered.
(7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than
a powered glider.
(8) A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider.
(9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a
gyroplane.
(10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin.
(11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on
water or a glider.
(12) Fixed or retractable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended
for operation on water.
(13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:02 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation
Interesting... I have never been able to find an AC or a Reg that makes that
allocation... Please forward that to me if you have it. I understand it to
be accepted behavior in Alaska but it is not endorsed by the FAA.. I have
heard 10% not the 100 #
Regarding LSA's If you are flying an aircraft that has a max gross weight
of 1320.. it does not get to increase the gross when you put floats on it to
the 1430 allowed...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
I think the issue here is the float manufacture, when going through STC process
for installing the floats on certain planes, did the math and figured the floats
will "fly" atleast a 100# at a very moderate airspeed (fullotus being one
of the best for producing lift). Part of the STC on the float install is a gross
increase of 100#. I figure if it is good enough for them it is good enough
for me, and if there is not a 100# safety factor involved in the manufactures
gross weight calculations then something is terribly wrong.. I know in my line
of work we deal with a minumum 2 times safety factor. I bet there is a pretty
good bit of fudge in the actual weight a plane can safely carry. Worst case,
you can go through the flight testing again and bump it up if you think you
are going to be getting ramp checked.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127326#127326
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
Experimentals do not need an STC to install floats or other modifications,
although I would think it prudent to know the weight and balance parameters
of ANYTHING installed on an Experimental aircraft, or any aircraft for that
matter. I don't know whether Full Full Lotus floats are Type Certificated
(deemed suitable for use on aircraft with Type Certificates by the FAA) or
not, and I own a set of them.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Spam: Kitfox-List: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation
I think the issue here is the float manufacture, when going through STC
process for installing the floats on certain planes, did the math and
figured the floats will "fly" atleast a 100# at a very moderate airspeed
(fullotus being one of the best for producing lift). Part of the STC on the
float install is a gross increase of 100#. I figure if it is good enough
for them it is good enough for me, and if there is not a 100# safety factor
involved in the manufactures gross weight calculations then something is
terribly wrong.. I know in my line of work we deal with a minumum 2 times
safety factor. I bet there is a pretty good bit of fudge in the actual
weight a plane can safely carry. Worst case, you can go through the flight
testing again and bump it up if you think you are going to be getting ramp
checked.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127326#127326
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
Not to be a burr....On type certified aircraft it is actually part of the TC
(type certificate) it is not automatic and it is specific to the float and
the install...
On SLSA it would need to be an approved float and install by the manufacture
of the SLSA and the manufacture has to approve the gross increase and has to
have the documentation to support the increase in testing.. not
mathematical. It is not an automatic increase. The ruling does not say you
automatically get another 110 lbs.. What they have done is make an allowance
for the manufacture to build the aircraft to support the increased gross
weight allowed.
On AB aircraft... You can install whatever float you desire and make
whatever increase you want.. however, it is a major change and needs to be
submitted to the local FSDO and that will require an inspection and the
inspector will have to sign off on the increase.. He may do so without any
requirement or he may have you document the testing to substantiate the
increase.. really depends on the inspector..
The safety margin you refer to is technically 150%... IF (big if) the
manufacture built to the guidelines of FAR part 23. In other words the
current Kitfox Super Sport for example was built to sustain +3.8 and -1.52
G's at 1550 gross. Therefore it was tested to approximately +6 and -3 G's.
While there may be some merit to the floats carrying some load in flight at
a given airspeed I wonder how the loading is applied to other parts of the
airframe when landing on choppy water or even on land with amphibs
considering that most amphibs do not have any shock absorbtion other then
the tires themselves.
Above all just be safe !! don't become a test pilot inadvertently.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation
http://forum.full-lotus.com/viewtopic.php?t
the float manufacture seems to be under the impression that FAA allows a
100# increase when you go on floats also...
Every certified AC I have had allowed the 100# gross increase when on
floats.. the ruling says you get an extra 110#. I may be confused, but if
so then everyone who has a floatplane here is too.
Bottom line for 99% of the guys here is if they can get it in the plane,
then get the plane in the air, they will swear that they are just under
gross and could have safely hauled another 50 pounds..if they could not get
it off the water, the passenger lied about thier weight..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127284#127284
2:22 PM
2:22 PM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Spam: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
no they are not certified, and trust me, the FAA does not think it is funny to
put them on a certified plane... I know first hand..that being said, I am sure
the only reason I am alive today is due the full lotus floats that were under
me when I drilled in..they are the only float I want on my planes certified or
not..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127351#127351
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
you are right.. the manufacture gets to determine the gross.. in our case that
would be the builder. I know that experimental does not require STC's. to make
the kitfox a 2 place float plane is pretty much up to the individual.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127352#127352
Message 7
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| Subject: | 2007 Factory Fly-In |
Just wanted to remind everyone that our Factory Fly-In is scheduled for
Labor Day Weekend.. September 1st. It is being setup to be fun and
informal.
Schedule is pretty simple.
We expect arrivals on Friday and departures on Sunday or possibly Monday
but The primary day is Saturday the 1st. Breakfast will be simple..
Muffins, Juice, Fruit, Coffee Poker Run in the morning, Homedale Chamber
of Commerce will be BBQing hamburger lunches (fee TBD) then after lunch most
likely a fly-out somewhere then a Smoked pulled Pork dinner.
There maybe a few that decide to fly-out somewhere on Sunday morning as well
although nothing is scheduled.. Again the intent is to keep it informal and
fun the Fly-in itself is scheduled for all day Saturday the 1st.
Hope to see you here !!
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
2:22 PM
Message 8
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| Subject: | 2007 Factory Fly-In |
John,
My girl and I will be there..
John Oakley
N5NX
Model 4 speedster
912ul
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:36 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 2007 Factory Fly-In
Just wanted to remind everyone that our Factory Fly-In is scheduled for
Labor Day Weekend.. September 1st. It is being setup to be fun and
informal.
Schedule is pretty simple..
We expect arrivals on Friday and departures on Sunday or possibly Monday.
but The primary day is Saturday the 1st. Breakfast will be simple..
Muffins, Juice, Fruit, Coffee. Poker Run in the morning, Homedale Chamber
of Commerce will be BBQing hamburger lunches (fee TBD) then after lunch most
likely a fly-out somewhere. then a Smoked pulled Pork dinner.
There maybe a few that decide to fly-out somewhere on Sunday morning as well
although nothing is scheduled.. Again the intent is to keep it informal and
fun. the Fly-in itself is scheduled for all day Saturday the 1st.
Hope to see you here !!
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: need engineer type to run a calculation |
First, I am not a float flyer - sometimes wishing I was - but the 100# is
mystifying me. With a Beaver 100# would add a fairly small increment to
it's max gross wt. With a Model I Kitfox it would be a bunch. Are you
suggesting that the 100# is for all aircraft? For me, at least, Johns 10%
sounds more realistic.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: need engineer type to run a calculation
>
> I think the issue here is the float manufacture, when going through STC
> process for installing the floats on certain planes, did the math and
> figured the floats will "fly" atleast a 100# at a very moderate airspeed
> (fullotus being one of the best for producing lift). Part of the STC on
> the float install is a gross increase of 100#. I figure if it is good
> enough for them it is good enough for me, and if there is not a 100#
> safety factor involved in the manufactures gross weight calculations then
> something is terribly wrong.. I know in my line of work we deal with a
> minumum 2 times safety factor. I bet there is a pretty good bit of fudge
> in the actual weight a plane can safely carry. Worst case, you can go
> through the flight testing again and bump it up if you think you are going
> to be getting ramp checked.
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127326#127326
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Mode C Transponder check |
Hi All,
Last night a fellow I met at the airport gave me a call. He's an avionics tech
and is willing to bring his equipment out to my hanger and check my mode C transponder.
I believe he's also going to check over the regular altimeter etc.
He says he'll beat the price an FBO would charge. What's a fair fee for having
this work done?
Thanks,
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV Rotax 912
<html><body>
<DIV>Hi All,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Last night a fellow I met at the airport gave me a call. He's an avionics
tech and is willing to bring his equipment out to my hanger and check my
mode C transponder. I believe he's also going to check over the regular
altimeter etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>He says he'll beat the price an FBO would charge. What's a fair fee
for having this work done?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,<BR>Ken Davy</DIV>
<DIV>N1701S</DIV>
<DIV>Classic IV Rotax 912</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Transponder check |
Ken
I paied a little over 200 dollars for the basic mode C non-IFR check.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: davyken@comcast.net
To:kitfox-list@matronics.com (Kitfox)
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mode C Transponder check
Hi All,
Last night a fellow I met at the airport gave me a call. He's an avionics tech
and is willing to bring his equipment out to my hanger and check my mode C transponder.
I believe he's also going to check over the regular altimeter etc.
He says he'll beat the price an FBO would charge. What's a fair fee for having
this work done?
Thanks,
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV Rotax 912
----------------
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Mode C Transponder check |
I paid $75.00 dollars a my local shop for my Cherokee 140
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: davyken@comcast.net
To: Kitfox
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 6:11 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mode C Transponder check
Hi All,
Last night a fellow I met at the airport gave me a call. He's an
avionics tech and is willing to bring his equipment out to my hanger and
check my mode C transponder. I believe he's also going to check over
the regular altimeter etc.
He says he'll beat the price an FBO would charge. What's a fair fee
for having this work done?
Thanks,
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV Rotax 912
Message 13
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| Subject: | How Big is the Hole? |
I am currently trying to figure out how big of a hole I am to drill in the center
mounting lug of my KF-IV for the Seat belts. My assembly manual referrs to
a page F-F-1 and a figure CF-9 to determine this, yet I am missing these pages.
Any help would
be appreciated.
I have a fax # of 480-354-2233
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
KF-IV, 912 S 314DW
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: How Big is the Hole? |
Dan,
I can scan the page and email it to you. It looks like the hole should be 1/4".
--------
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127410#127410
Message 15
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| Subject: | Mode C Transponder check (prices) |
We pay $75 here in southeast Michigan.
Rex
-- "Mike Chaney" <mdps_mc@swoca.net> wrote:
<mdps_mc@swoca.net>
Ken
I paied a little over 200 dollars for the basic mode C non-IFR check.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: davyken@comcast.net
To:kitfox-list@matronics.com (Kitfox)
Subject: Kitfox-List: Mode C Transponder check
Hi All,
Last night a fellow I met at the airport gave me a call. He's an avioni
cs tech and is willing to bring his equipment out to my hanger and check
my mode C transponder. I believe he's also going to check over the reg
ular altimeter etc.
He says he'll beat the price an FBO would charge. What's a fair fee for
having this work done?
Thanks,
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV Rotax 912
----------------
This message has been scanned for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal at
SWOCA.
----------------
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
<html><P> We pay $75 here in southeast Michigan.</P>
<P>Rex</P>
<P><BR><BR>-- "Mike Chaney" <mdps_mc@swoca.net>&nbs
p;wrote:<BR>--> Kitfox-List message posted by:&nb
sp;"=?utf-8?B?TWlrZSBDaGFuZXk=?=" <mdps_mc@swoca.net><B
R><BR>Ken<BR>I paied a little over 200 dol
lars for the basic mode C non-IFR che
ck.<BR>Mike<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: davyken
@comcast.net<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:1
1:24 <BR>To:kitfox-list@matronics.com (Kitfox)<BR>Subject:&nbs
p;Kitfox-List: Mode C Transponder check<BR><BR><BR>H
i All, <BR> <BR>Last night a fellow&
nbsp;I met at the airport gave me a&n
bsp;call. He's an avionics tech and
is willing to bring his equipment out 
;to my hanger and check my mode C&nbs
p;transponder. I believe he's also going&
nbsp;to check over the regular altimeter e
tc. <BR> <BR>He says he'll beat the&
nbsp;price an FBO would charge. What's&nb
sp;a fair fee for having this work do
ne? <BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR>Ken Davy <BR>N1701S&nb
sp;<BR>Classic IV Rotax 912 <BR> <BR>----
------------<BR> This message has been scanned&
nbsp;for Viruses and cleared by MailMarshal&nbs
========================
========================
sp; - The Kitfox-List Email F
p;List utilities such as the Subscriptions 
========================
========================
- NEW MATRONICS WEB&n
========================
========================
========</P>
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: How Big is the Hole? |
Kent,
Many thanks, that would be great.
Dan
kentk <kentk25@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dan,
I can scan the page and email it to you. It looks like the hole should be 1/4".
--------
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127410#127410
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How Big is the Hole? |
Try this again...I think the Maltronics Gremlins strip messages sometines...
Kent,
Many Thanks...That would be great!
Dan
kentk <kentk25@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dan,
I can scan the page and email it to you. It looks like the hole should be 1/4".
--------
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127410#127410
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Jimmy Franklin Tape |
The site is still available here:
http://kitfox.lazair.com/movies/
--------
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=127415#127415
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