---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/25/07: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: A totally thrilling flight (Lynn Matteson) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: vw eng (tleed) 3. 07:39 AM - Re: Wing Specs?? (Tom Jones) 4. 07:39 AM - Sticky Fuel Valve (fox5flyer) 5. 09:12 AM - Series 7 Wt & Balance () 6. 09:34 AM - Re: A totally thrilling flight (kitfoxmike) 7. 10:37 AM - Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (Dave G.) 8. 11:53 AM - Re: Series 7 Wt & Balance (Tom Jones) 9. 01:03 PM - Re: Series 7 Wt & Balance (Noel Loveys) 10. 01:30 PM - Re: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin (kenneth schooley) 11. 04:53 PM - Re: older egt sending J or K wire? (Torgeir Mortensen) 12. 05:14 PM - Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (Torgeir Mortensen) 13. 05:33 PM - Re: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin (Noel Loveys) 14. 08:17 PM - Puff The Magic Taildragger (jeff puls) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:41 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: A totally thrilling flight It doesn't say it all for me, Noel....I'm not "up to speed" with the 582, but I'm guessing again that the 582 needs/uses auto gas, eh? On Aug 25, 2007, at 12:19 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > 582 says it all ;-) Nobody know what's in the stuff. They keep > changing > the formula. > Around here we have a full four seasons... Sometimes it feels like six > months of winter and six months of hard sledding. It's one of the > reasons > I'm not too fussy about flying the 582 in the winter. That and > trying to > find a place to get the plane out to one of the many frozen ponds. > > Noel > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Lynn Matteson >> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:24 AM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: A totally thrilling flight >> >> >> >> Let me guess.....auto fuel, right? >> >> Lynn >> >> On Aug 24, 2007, at 9:37 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> >> >>> >>> My vote is with the varnish. It was probably there before I >>> drained the >>> system late last fall. >>> >>> Noel >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf >> Of akflyer >>>> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:20 PM >>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: A totally thrilling flight >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> kitfoxmike wrote: >>>>> the next question is WHY? did they get stuck, from debrees. >>>> From where? the tanks, the hoses, bad fuel? >>>> >>>> >>>> My money is on the fact that it had not been run in a >>>> year...the bowls tend to dry out.. sometimes it is varnish, >>>> sometimes a bit of corrosion. I was helping a fellow KF >>>> flyer last week and he had not flown his for awhile. He had >>>> put new carb boots on that only had (I think) 3.5 (or some >>>> rediculously low time) flight hours on them since being >>>> installed... Just for giggles I gave them a wiggle after two >>>> other KF pilots had just been under the cowl giving it a once >>>> over before it was launched.. the rear carb boot was cracked >>>> damn near all the way through. I know it would not have >>>> lasted long before things got ugly.... the moral of the story >>>> is, after prolonged storage periods, make sure you do more of >>>> a "condition" inspection before you fly and not just a quick >>>> pre-flight. This includes pulling the float bowls to check >>>> screens etc. Just a good extra look to make sure you stack >>>> the deck in your favor. >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> Leonard Perry >>>> Soldotna AK >>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV >>>> 582 IVO IFA >>>> Full Lotus 1260 >>>> 95% complete >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130884#130884 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:28 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: vw eng From: "tleed" Check out Great Plains VW for info on the web. They're VW masters. -------- Kitfox Model IV-1200 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130948#130948 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Specs?? From: "Tom Jones" > I am wondering if you guys can tell me what I would be looking for while trying to determine if a set of quick-build wing that I bought are series 4 or 5 Keith, Follow this closely, I'll try not to confuse you. On my classic 4, I have one wing built by the factory in 1994, and one wing built by me in 2001. the spars are the same length you have. The 1994 factory built wing incert is 54 inches long and is installed 70 inches from the root end. The wing kit I purchased from Skystar in 2001 has a letter attached explaining that in 1997 they started supplying a longer, stronger spar incert with all wing kits for the model 3, 4-1050, 4-1200, XL, Speedster, Classic 4, and 1200 gross weight Vixen (pre series 5) The 2001 spar incert is 60 inches long and the instructions say to install it 73.25 inches from the root end for the models 3, 4 and XL, 74.25 inches for the speedster and 70.75 for the Vixen 1200. I'll let you do the math for the incert to tip dementions. Also, my Classic 4 lift struts built in 1994 are a full one inch outside diameter. This information may help in your detective work on the wings or at least help you determine if they will work for you.. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130959#130959 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:40 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Sticky Fuel Valve Thanks for the info Andy. That's a pricey little bugger! It's interesting though when you look up the part number on Andair site, it shows the valve pointer being perpendicular when in the off position. As I said, when I spoke to the rep at Oshkosh, he said that they didn't have one where the pointer faced the direction of flow. Strange. Please let me know when (if) you receive a response and/or pass it on to us. Thanks, Deke > > I emailed Andair about their valves and they said that the part is a FS20x1 > - 90. Which is off when the pointer is 90 degrees to the fittings. I then > asked for a drawing or schematic that would verify that the valve pointer is > indeed pointing (inline) with the fittings. I have not had a reply as of > yet, (I emailed today). I would not want to shell out $229 for a valve from > GB and have it be the wrong one. Their website is http://www.andair.co.uk. > Andy > S-5 > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:35 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 Wt & Balance All I just completed (I hope) the wt & balance for my Series 7 with a Rotax, i.e. no fwd sweep in wing. Wt came out to be 822 -- I'm happy with that. What I'm questioning is the wheel measurements. I dropped the wing leading edge (datum) and found it to be to the rear of the main wheel axles by 2 3/8". (I actually had to drop the string outside the main wheels because the string was touching the Grove Gear leading edge.) The diagram/worksheet shows the wing leading edge to be fwd of the main wheels. Tail wheel was 164" behind leading edge. What wheel measurements have you found on your S7? Frank McDonald N5929 Hopefully, ready for DAR ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:35 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: A totally thrilling flight From: "kitfoxmike" Wow! A hole year without flying. I can't even begin with that one. I can't go one day without a flight. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130975#130975 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:57 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale Hello Mark. It's amazing how close your FWF is to my own. Almost identical. In any case I'd be very interested in performance numbers on your new engine package. I have a mid-time 582 also and would like to replace it come rebuild time. The HKS is one option, the 912 is the other as the Jabiru dealers here in Canada have proved unreliable. I suspect the HKS might come close to the Jabiru in some respects with it's lower prop RPM. What model are you flying? Napier, Mark wrote: >I've bought an HKS 700e and want to start making a motor mount for it. >I'm flying on my 582 but want to sell it outright or part it out. I >hate to do it now that good flying weather is coming but have to >sometime. > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Series 7 Wt & Balance From: "Tom Jones" > The diagram/worksheet shows the wing leading edge to be > fwd of the main wheels. If the leading edge is very far foreward of the main wheels it will be a nose Dragger. Thats probably the diagram they use in your manual. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130987#130987 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:34 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Series 7 Wt & Balance Did you have your tail wheel raised up to level the plane? Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > frank.phyllis@mindspring.com > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 1:41 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 Wt & Balance > > > > All > I just completed (I hope) the wt & balance for my Series 7 > with a Rotax, > i.e. no fwd sweep in wing. > > Wt came out to be 822 -- I'm happy with that. > > What I'm questioning is the wheel measurements. > I dropped the wing leading edge (datum) and found it to be to the rear > of the main wheel axles by 2 3/8". (I actually had to drop the string > outside the main wheels because the string was touching the Grove Gear > leading edge.) The diagram/worksheet shows the wing leading > edge to be > fwd of the main wheels. > > Tail wheel was 164" behind leading edge. > > What wheel measurements have you found on your S7? > > Frank McDonald > N5929 > Hopefully, ready for DAR > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:50 PM PST US From: "kenneth schooley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin Just a quick note regarding the wing retaining pins, I was told as an Avid Flyer salesman. That there is practically NO shear on these pins. Because of the location of the wing lift struts at the lower pivot point, the pin has approx. 18 lbs. forward load at nominal cruise (there is virtually no rearward load). The reason for the size of this pin is for pilot confidence, not necessarily for strength. The most loading will occur during landing configuration or ground movement. Thanks, Ken >From: "Noel Loveys" >To: >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin Date: Fri, 24 Aug >2007 22:37:42 -0230 > >That's because clevis pins are usually used in moving shear applications >e.g. axels for pulleys. The application on the 'Fox and the Avid is a >static shear application. Because I fold my wings after every flight I >keep >an eye peeled on the condition of the clevis pin and if it ever gets to the >point where the cad plate is worn through I'll replace them. > > >Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern >Campbellton, Newfoundland, >Canada >Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA >Aerocet 1100s > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > >Do not archive > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > Lynn Matteson > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:27 PM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin > > > > > > > > You're welcome, John. > > > > I was gonna add this part earlier, but figured you didn't need > > another thing to worry about. Now that you've got a few hours older > > (joke), I think you can handle it. In Spruce's description of the > > clevis pins, it says: "Used with clevis forks and in secondary > > controls which are not subjected to continuous operation." Makes > > you wonder, doesn't it? :) > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/395+ hrs > > do not archive > > > > > > On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:42 AM, John W. Hart wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Lynn. I have a Model IV also, and I was pretty sure I had > > > the right > > > critter, but I don't like guessing when it comes to parts as > > > critical as > > > these. I bought the aircraft already built, and have a lot of the > > > paperwork, but couldn't locate anything telling me EXACTLY > > what the > > > pin is. > > > I appreciate the help. > > > John Hart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><< Signature1.jpg >> _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: older egt sending J or K wire? From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Ok Folks, let's forget everything about the J type, as this is the IRON/CONSTANTAN thermocouple, and this one is NEVER to be used for EGT in a Kitfox, -remember- , forget the lo temperature J for "Julie"! The ONLY one we can use for the EGT indicator is the K type thermocouple! This is Chromel Alumel thermocouple..... Anything different from this will give you way off reading.. The very point where the Chromel and the Alumel is "joined", is the exact sensing point for the temperature we're reading. If this point is at the freezing point of water -this will give zero volt between the two wires, anything else differ. The temperature vs. voltage is "almost" linear... In other word, it's a perfect sensor for our exhaust gas temperature (EGT) device. So, different materials different results! K thermocouple is the only one we use for EGT...... I'm still using a 532 in my Fox! Cheers. Torgeir. On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:15:56 +0200, wrote: > J wire must be what I mean. I asked the same Question of Phil Lockwood > at > Oshkosh and he had no idea .I wonder how using the wrong sender would > effect > the reading ? when I bought the plane I found out the builder traded > the new > in the kit 532 for a mostly run out 532 and muffler that came out of his > friends module 2 .finished in 1991 the muffler and sending unit is > very old > and I put it on a new 582. > > Malcolm Brubaker > Midland Michigan > KF mod 11 582 E box 3 blade wood prop 100% completed buy the guy I > bought > it from > > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour -- Torgeir Kitfox Model II, 1993 Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox Propeller: IVO UL 366Q Tromsoe NORWAY. Weather in Tromso right now: http://met.no/troms/index.html City map of Tromso: http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale From: "Torgeir Mortensen" Mark, Isnt the old 532 "flat plate" mount, -the same as the HKS-700 mount?? Cheers. Torgeir. On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:28:49 +0200, Napier, Mark wrote: > I've bought an HKS 700e and want to start making a motor mount for it. > I'm flying on my 582 but want to sell it outright or part it out. I > hate to do it now that good flying weather is coming but have to > sometime. > > So the parts for sale are: > * 582 engine with ~190hours on a new crankshaft, ~12 hours on new Pro-X > pistons and all new engine seals. Yes, the crankshaft seals are the > red-lined ones from Rotax$$$. > * C gearbox 3:1 gears and new seals; prop-shaft and gear service letter > done by South Mississippi. > * Mag end electric starter set. > * Engine mount for later model 3 that should fit most models. White > powder coated. > * Ceramic coated exhaust system - still looks great, no corrosion. > * EGT probes for same. > * Oversized radiator for Georgia/Florida weather. > * Standard radiator for winter. > * Set of radiator vanes to control air through standard radiator -> > needs final trimming and set up, needs a Bowden cable. > * Cabin heater and fan. > * All heater/cooling hoses and pipes. > * Pulse fuel pump with fresh (12 hours) overhaul kit. > * Brass cooling filler pipe/Cap and plastic overflow bottle and mount. > * Nalgene plasic oil bottle and metal mounting frame. > * GSC Tech III prop and spinner -> the blades are old but I'm still > flying them. > * 2 Key West Voltage regulators. > * Westach water temp gauge and probe. > * Rotax tachometer. > * Rochester Voltmeter > * Rochester Ammeter. > > I'm currently flying this plane and hope to be out this weekend and some > next weekend but eventually will have to pull the engine to start the > motor mount. If the flying weather gets too nice it may be later in the > fall. If someone want to come see it or go flying in it let me know. I > have lots of pictures available as well. > > Cheers, > > Mark Napier > > > - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - > This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is > confidential, > proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information > is solely > intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering > it to > the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, > you are > not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message > or any > part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the > sender > immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. -- Torgeir Kitfox Model II, 1993 Engine: Rotax 532 with B gearbox Propeller: IVO UL 366Q Tromsoe NORWAY. Weather in Tromso right now: http://met.no/troms/index.html City map of Tromso: http://www.avinor.no/English/Airports/Tromso_Airport/?module=Articles;action=ArticleFolder.publicOpenFolder;ID=1453 Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:02 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin The operative word there I think is, "practically" . The only load at all is shear but you are right that is minimal. No doubt the clevis pin could be a lot smaller and still do the job. For the reason you give, pilot confidence, if the cad plating ever wears off my pins I'll replace them. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > kenneth schooley > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:00 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin > > > > > Just a quick note regarding the wing retaining pins, I was > told as an Avid > Flyer salesman. That there is practically NO shear on these > pins. Because of > the location of the wing lift struts at the lower pivot > point, the pin has > approx. 18 lbs. forward load at nominal cruise (there is virtually no > rearward load). The reason for the size of this pin is for > pilot confidence, > not necessarily for strength. The most loading will occur > during landing > configuration or ground movement. > > > > Thanks, Ken > > > >From: "Noel Loveys" > >To: > >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin > Date: Fri, 24 Aug > >2007 22:37:42 -0230 > > > >That's because clevis pins are usually used in moving shear > applications > >e.g. axels for pulleys. The application on the 'Fox and the > Avid is a > >static shear application. Because I fold my wings after > every flight I > >keep > >an eye peeled on the condition of the clevis pin and if it > ever gets to the > >point where the cad plate is worn through I'll replace them. > > > > > > > > > > > >Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern > >Campbellton, Newfoundland, > >Canada > >Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA > >Aerocet 1100s > > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > > > > >Do not archive > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > > Lynn Matteson > > > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:27 PM > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leading Edge Spar Retaining Pin > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're welcome, John. > > > > > > I was gonna add this part earlier, but figured you didn't need > > > another thing to worry about. Now that you've got a few > hours older > > > (joke), I think you can handle it. In Spruce's description of the > > > clevis pins, it says: "Used with clevis forks and in secondary > > > controls which are not subjected to continuous operation." Makes > > > you wonder, doesn't it? :) > > > > > > Lynn Matteson > > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > > flying w/395+ hrs > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:42 AM, John W. Hart wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Lynn. I have a Model IV also, and I was pretty > sure I had > > > > the right > > > > critter, but I don't like guessing when it comes to parts as > > > > critical as > > > > these. I bought the aircraft already built, and have a > lot of the > > > > paperwork, but couldn't locate anything telling me EXACTLY > > > what the > > > > pin is. > > > > I appreciate the help. > > > > John Hart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ><< Signature1.jpg >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:20 PM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Kitfox-List: Puff The Magic Taildragger I went out to the airport to fly the Fox the other night. I have the 912UL. I have not flown in over a month and a half. I removed my oil cap to cycle the prop through. The prop seemed to be frozen. In the past I have removed a plug and let the oil seep out as I was cranking the engine and it locked. Anyway, while I was standing there I leaned on the prop as it was at the horizontal. Ever so lightly I leaned on the prop and applied a little constant pressure and it cycled through. I continued to cycle the prop and after what seemed like a short period of time (Less than normal) it did the customary "Gurgle." I started the engine and got a bunch of smoke coming from my exhaust. It seemed to do it for about 200' and then it stopped. It looked like I was spraying for misquitos. I went ahead and flew and the engine ran perfect. I assume that I had some oil in one of the cylinders when it seemed to be locked. Does anyone concur with that. I don't think I bent a rod because it ran perfect as it always does. It hasn't belched or f _ _ ted in 300 hours. Jeff Classic IV ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.