---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/27/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:40 AM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (Larry Martin) 2. 05:50 AM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (Bill Malpass) 3. 07:52 AM - Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (Napier, Mark) 4. 07:56 AM - Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (Napier, Mark) 5. 08:54 AM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (Guy Buchanan) 6. 08:56 AM - Re: good source for 582 cranks (Guy Buchanan) 7. 09:34 AM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (william wheet) 8. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (Noel Loveys) 9. 10:33 AM - Re: good source for 582 cranks (akflyer) 10. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Leaky fuel valve (Michel Verheughe) 11. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: good source for 582 cranks (Guy Buchanan) 12. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (JC Propellerdesign) 13. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Marco Menezes) 14. 02:23 PM - Re: good source for 582 cranks (akflyer) 15. 02:52 PM - factory flyin (kitfoxmike) 16. 03:09 PM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (john beirne) 17. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: good source for 582 cranks (Guy Buchanan) 18. 03:30 PM - Re: good source for 582 cranks (akflyer) 19. 05:21 PM - Re: factory flyin (Lowell Fitt) 20. 06:33 PM - fly-in (Steven Didier) 21. 07:03 PM - Re: Puff The Magic Taildragger (Randy Daughenbaugh) 22. 08:14 PM - Re: fly-in (Lowell Fitt) 23. 09:05 PM - factory (john oakley) 24. 10:41 PM - Re: fly-in (Steven Didier) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:20 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding Is it possible that there is a high point in the heater hoses that are trapping air? Can you feel/squeeze the water in the hoses? Did you fly it, or just runup? The airflow is lacking on the ground, mine always cools off once airborne. Of course, you did recheck the coolant level after it cooled. Larry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:23 AM PST US From: "Bill Malpass" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding What are your cht numbers at a specific rpm range? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "john beirne" Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding > > I changed the coolant hoses that run to the cabin heater on my 582 engined > fox and then refilled the system with coolant and bled the system at the > vent on top of the thermostat until the coolant ran through, however now > the engine overheats! > Both rads get hot evenly over all their surfaces so I don?Tt think any > air is trapped inside those > I even placed the tail wheel on a barrel to ensure the cylinder head was > level and prevent air entrapment inside the head while filling and > bleeding > What am I missing? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131112#131112 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:58 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale From: "Napier, Mark" I looked for a BMW engine. The "C" gearbox with 3:1 gearing is supposed to be a good match. However, those engines are hard to find and expensive here in the southeast US. Also the all up weight is heavy for a Kitfox III but probably is about the same as a full electric VW. I agree, however, that the low-speed thrust and power from that package would be very impressive. - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:33 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale From: "Napier, Mark" Forgot to give a price. I would like $3K for everything. - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:24 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding At 03:22 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >I even placed the tail wheel on a barrel to ensure the cylinder head >was level and prevent air entrapment inside the head while filling and bleeding >What am I missing? Make sure there are no bubbles in the head. (Tilt, shake, bleed, run, repeat.) Make sure you bleed the pump housing, if you can. (Mine has ports top and bottom.) Make sure you're running 50/50 coolant / distilled water. Finally, were your old hoses so bad that they might have left chunks in the system? Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:40 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: good source for 582 cranks At 02:40 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: >Just a heads up to anyone who is getting close to a crank replacment.. Thanks for the info, Leonard. Do you do your own 582 rebuilds? Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:02 AM PST US From: william wheet Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding When I had my KF III 582 gray head I had to run 70% water to bring my temps 180deg. U mite try that 50% in winter do not archive Bill in maine --- Guy Buchanan wrote: > > > At 03:22 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote: > >I even placed the tail wheel on a barrel to ensure > the cylinder head > >was level and prevent air entrapment inside the > head while filling and bleeding > >What am I missing? > > Make sure there are no bubbles in the head. (Tilt, > shake, bleed, run, > repeat.) Make sure you bleed the pump housing, if > you can. (Mine has > ports top and bottom.) Make sure you're running > 50/50 coolant / > distilled water. Finally, were your old hoses so bad > that they might > have left chunks in the system? > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly > to Bob Ducar. > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > Web Forums! > > > > > Bill Wheet Buxton, Me. FsII 503 Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:10 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding I usually fill the coolant, start the engine and run it for about a minute, shut it down and check the coolant level. A minute should get all the bubbles out of the system. Make sure you have the breaker hose from the top of a cylinder head looped back to the fluid filler. That will remove any bubbles in the heads. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Martin Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:09 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding Is it possible that there is a high point in the heater hoses that are trapping air? Can you feel/squeeze the water in the hoses? Did you fly it, or just runup? The airflow is lacking on the ground, mine always cools off once airborne. Of course, you did recheck the coolant level after it cooled. Larry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: good source for 582 cranks From: "akflyer" yes. Have been re-building two strokes since I was 12. It really is not rocket science. You get the rotax repair manual, and go through it step by step. It gives you all the tolerances to check and all the steps. Just remember... when doing the work cleanliness is next to godliness... Some people are not comfortable doing the work, some are. If you are mechanically inclined, it is not an issue. There are DVDs, book and manuals to get you through it all. -------- Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131210#131210 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:08 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Leaky fuel valve Thank you for your answers, Kitfoxmike and Jim. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive On Aug 25, 2007, at 2:41 AM, kitfoxmike wrote: ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:21 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: good source for 582 cranks At 10:32 AM 8/27/2007, you wrote: >Some people are not comfortable doing the work, some are. If you >are mechanically inclined, it is not an issue. I did a lot of rebuilding when I was younger, but never invested in the proper measurement tools. I wouldn't mind buying those. I balk a little at buying all the Rotax special tools. ($300+ for a wrist pin puller!?!) Did you buy them? Or are you able to work around that necessity? Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:24 PM PST US From: "JC Propellerdesign" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale This is some words from Jakub in Poland. //Jan. In fact ... I'm former user of VW now. My solution was BMW modern R series bike engine. Jan know me as one from aviation BMW enthusiast, I spent few last years in this project... and finally, after aeroconverting ~35 engines, I'm installing it in my plane. I am part of non commercial group of BMW enthusiasts formed around Czech Flying School near Ostrava. My personal responsibility is electronic and wirings. First - the power, I recommend BMW 1100S or 1150RT, R, RS, all have around 80-85hp@6850rpm (max at 7200 is more than 90hp advertised) Second - the weight... Engine with Czech PSRU have 78kg (dry, no oil cooler and no exhausts). The CoG is 20cm from flat back of engine (From alternator ark had to see photo, Third - the fuel consumption... 0.167kg/hp/h (when typical for other engines is 0.225) its fuel injection!!! In normal terms - typical and well known CH601 ZODIAC fly patterns in flying school 10 l/h. Amazing... isn't it? Fourth - the price... look, all our engines came from wrecked bike, You can buy it in excellent state for 1100-1300-1500 EURO, then PSRU will cost from cheaper Polish 800 EURO thru great and quite cheap Czech 1200-1400 EURO to expensive German unit 2400EU. I preferred Czech one... You will need wiring conversion, You can do it yourself or I can do it for You (~200EURO). Put it all together in one hour... and will have strong and reliable unit. (The clean engine will be untouched.) Proven in many installations. Fifth - known problems: vibrations (its two cyl, boxer) need well designed engine frame, centrifugal clutch - causing bigger drag when disengaged, hot exhaust problematic in wooden/epoxy designs, hot oil need really big cooler. Big height of engine can make problems with installation too. Former versions of PSRU had a lot of problems. Now - all are fixed. All problems we had, all are cured now. (Can You believe so we did ~25 sets of internal PSRU parts till got good results?) ----- Original Message ----- From: Napier, Mark To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:51 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale I looked for a BMW engine. The "C" gearbox with 3:1 gearing is supposed to be a good match. However, those engines are hard to find and expensive here in the southeast US. Also the all up weight is heavy for a Kitfox III but probably is about the same as a full electric VW. I agree, however, that the low-speed thrust and power from that package would be very impressive. - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:04 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 engine adjustments Thanks Mark. I'll try that. do not archive. "Napier, Mark" wrote: I had one more brain cell fire while driving home. I remembered listening to Tom Olenik on the ultraflightradio archives. He said that in the early days they had a hard time getting the engines to idle. One fix was to cut a rectangular slot in the back of the slides to let more air through. The idea was to allow more charge into the cylinders at idle to compensate for the loading of the prop. These carbs came from motorcycles engines that don't have a prop hanging on them at idle. Now all the Bing carbs for Rotax aircraft engines come with slides that have a slot in the rear. But now with the clutch, he had to file on the bottoms of the slides to get less air into the engine at idle; basically trying to undo the slot at the rear of the slide. Your trying to get the engine to idle at 1800 rpm or less with no load and that's much less power (fuel air mix) than the carb is currently set up for. You might ask one of the companies that sell the clutch how they set up their engines. Good Day, Mark Napier --------------------------------- - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:40 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: good source for 582 cranks From: "akflyer" the only tool I has to have special is the one to pull the gear off the end of the crank for a B box... I was not gonna shell out 168.00 so I had the machine shop at work make one for me... lokks better than the rotax one and didnt cost a dime.. Dont need a wrist pin puller. I did get the plastic insert to hold the needle bearings. I had another wristpin from a snogo engine that was the same OD so I used that to pop the wristpin out. I have collected all the ID and OD measuring tools, calipers, etc, over the years so I did not have any tooling expense other than the plastic insert for the bearings (3.85 if I remember right). I do not remember exactly the out of roundness in the cylinders, but a few passes with the precision hone cleaned them up. I bet if you have a cycle shop near by they have a precision hone and you could get them to hit your cylinders for you if you dont want to buy one. I dont remember the exact spec, but do remember that my engine, with 228.6 hrs on it was right in the middle or the new / maximum limits. I would say at next rebuild I will have to put new jugs on, or have these re-built. The biggest thing is the ring gap on the cylinders. Make sure that is OK and you are good to go. Dont try and run it is the ring gap is to large. this can cause all kinds of issues not just bad compression and a power loss. It also makes it easier to catch the ring on the exhaust port... not good. it goes down hill real quick from there. One of the local guys made a few tools such as the water pump seal insert tool. I think it was a 3/4" or 1" conduit coupling that he turned the threads out of for a perfect fit and a nice cheap tool. I did borrow that from him. If you are not going to change the whole crank (which is stupid for this price not to) and are gonna try a crank job yourself, then you will need the special tools to pull the bearings, then press the crank apart etc. I had ordered all the parts seals, bearings, conrods etc, to do mine cause I was not gonna pay 1300 for a new crank... then found this guy. so I sent all the parts back (which more than paid for the crank) and didnt have to mess with it other than checking the runout on it. It was within rotax specs, but not 100% either, so a bit of time on the V blocks and a persuader, got it running as close to 100% true as is humanly possible... What gear box do you have? If it is a B box, I can send you the tool, as I dont need it anymore now with the C box. -------- Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131236#131236 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:16 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: factory flyin From: "kitfoxmike" who all is going to this? -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131241#131241 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding From: "john beirne" Thanks guys The hoses removed were not in poor condition really, they were chaffed where they had been tie wrapped to the engine bearers loosely so a stitch in time The coolant is a 10:1 distilled water and coolant (I live in a moderate climate) The engine never exceeded 75-80C even on a hot day, now it keeps climbing before I shut it down before it reaches 100C I have run the engine a number of times hoping it displaces the obviously trapped air and yet the problem continues. With the breaker hose removed from the head the coolant gushes merrily while filling, I've run about a quart over board so far The large hose from the pump to the thermostat feels soft as if there may be air within Working on it tomorrow so will keep you posted Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131243#131243 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:48 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: good source for 582 cranks At 02:22 PM 8/27/2007, you wrote: >What gear box do you have? If it is a B box, I can send you the >tool, as I dont need it anymore now with the C box. Nope. I'm running a C box, but thank's for the offer. And thank you very much for the comprehensive information. You make it sound so easy that maybe I won't buy the 912 after all. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:52 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: good source for 582 cranks From: "akflyer" dont let me stop you from getting the 912.. the fuel burn and extra ponies are hard to argue...I would not mind a few more ponies in the nose when playing on floats... -------- Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131248#131248 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:12 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: factory flyin Mike, I know of about eight that are going - the guys I fly around with. Most are not on the list. I will be there along with Mark, Ken, Larry, Hal, Danny, Mike, and Keith. Ken and Hal fly Rans. We try to overlook that and like them anyway. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "kitfoxmike" Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 2:50 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: factory flyin > > who all is going to this? > > -------- > kitfoxmike > model IV, 1200 > speedster > 912ul > building > RV7a > slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit > "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not > flying enough" > Do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131241#131241 > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:17 PM PST US From: Steven Didier Subject: Kitfox-List: fly-in There will also be a couple of 172 drivers there from Kamiah. One of whom, me, is 99% sure that I am going to buy a kit. I want to talk with a few of you guy's look over your planes! Steve Didier ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:30 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Puff The Magic Taildragger Jeff, This exact scenario has been described before on the list. It would seem that you have nothing to worry about. Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff puls Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Puff The Magic Taildragger I went out to the airport to fly the Fox the other night. I have the 912UL. I have not flown in over a month and a half. I removed my oil cap to cycle the prop through. The prop seemed to be frozen. In the past I have removed a plug and let the oil seep out as I was cranking the engine and it locked. Anyway, while I was standing there I leaned on the prop as it was at the horizontal. Ever so lightly I leaned on the prop and applied a little constant pressure and it cycled through. I continued to cycle the prop and after what seemed like a short period of time (Less than normal) it did the customary "Gurgle." I started the engine and got a bunch of smoke coming from my exhaust. It seemed to do it for about 200' and then it stopped. It looked like I was spraying for misquitos. I went ahead and flew and the engine ran perfect. I assume that I had some oil in one of the cylinders when it seemed to be locked. Does anyone concur with that. I don't think I bent a rod because it ran perfect as it always does. It hasn't belched or f _ _ ted in 300 hours. Jeff Classic IV ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:10 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fly-in Steve, This is good news. I did the same long ago - 1993, and have absolutely no regrets. I just went over 900 hours on my Model IV on a group trip to the Oregon coast. We did get to the Antique fly-in at McMinville. A couple of days later we went back and saw the Spruce Goose and the other great airplanes in the musieum there. Lots of grass, lots of rain, lots of clouds, lots of beach and lots of fun. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp 1998 890 hrs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Didier" Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: fly-in > > There will also be a couple of 172 drivers there from Kamiah. One of > whom, me, is 99% sure that I am going to buy a kit. I want to talk with > a few of you guy's look over your planes! > Steve Didier > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:01 PM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: Kitfox-List: factory Hi guys, How is everyone getting to the motel from the fly in? It seems a long ways to walk, you know I am old and fat... John Oakley ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:31 PM PST US From: Steven Didier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fly-in Thanks Lowell, I know that I will fly much more if I have an affordable mean to take off from my hay field as opposed to driving for an hour each way to get to our club's airplane. Your Oregon trip is just what my wife and I want to be able to do. The museum at MicMinville is worth the trip all by itself. Steve On Aug 27, 2007, at 8:12 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > Steve, > > This is good news. I did the same long ago - 1993, and have > absolutely no regrets. I just went over 900 hours on my Model IV > on a group trip to the Oregon coast. We did get to the Antique fly- > in at McMinville. A couple of days later we went back and saw the > Spruce Goose and the other great airplanes in the musieum there. > > Lots of grass, lots of rain, lots of clouds, lots of beach and lots > of fun. > > Lowell Fitt > Cameron Park, CA > Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp > 1998 890 hrs. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Didier" > > To: > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:31 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: fly-in > > >> >> >> There will also be a couple of 172 drivers there from Kamiah. One >> of whom, me, is 99% sure that I am going to buy a kit. I want to >> talk with a few of you guy's look over your planes! >> Steve Didier >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.