Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: factory flyin (RockyRim)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: fly-in (wingnut)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (Jeffrey Dill)
4. 06:49 AM - Re: factory flyin (kitfoxmike)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: BMW 1100S (JSD)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: Re:BMW 1100S (mscotter@comcast.net)
7. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: BMW 1100S (JC Propellerdesign)
8. 08:02 AM - Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale (Mike Glenn)
9. 08:30 AM - Re: BMW 1100S (JSD)
10. 08:38 AM - list (LaNita Begola)
11. 08:42 AM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (akflyer)
12. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Napier, Mark)
13. 08:52 AM - Re: list (kaufjm@aol.com)
14. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: BMW 1100S (Tim Vader)
15. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: BMW 1100S (Rick)
16. 09:18 AM - Prelim Crash Info (royall merill)
17. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: BMW 1100S (Tim Vader)
18. 09:25 AM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (Jeffrey Dill)
19. 10:07 AM - Re: BMW 1100S (JSD)
20. 10:13 AM - Re: factory (jdmcbean)
21. 10:14 AM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (Bill Malpass)
22. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Napier, Mark)
23. 11:32 AM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (Jeffrey Dill)
24. 11:40 AM - Re: Prelim Crash Info (John W. Hart)
25. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Napier, Mark)
26. 01:14 PM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (Jeffrey Dill)
27. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
28. 02:04 PM - Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding (john beirne)
29. 03:45 PM - Re: 582 engine adjustments (akflyer)
30. 05:18 PM - Re: factory (john oakley)
31. 05:51 PM - Re: Prelim Crash Info (Roger McConnell)
32. 07:04 PM - ModII 912 installation (Noel Loveys)
33. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
34. 11:24 PM - SV: Re: 582 engine adjustments (Torgeir Mortensen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: factory flyin |
My wife and I are flyin up from Texas.
Denise and Rocky Whitman
Series 7 912 S 50 hrs
(this should be a good shake down)
Austin,Tx.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131309#131309
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> Lots of grass,
Wow.. is that legal out your way?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131320#131320
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Mark, Thanks for your input regarding 582 adjustment. Too much good info there
for me to respond intelligently. You seem to know carburetion at a level I envy
and need to catch up to. Two things in the chatter caught my attention:
4 turns is the effective range for the low jet. Other sources online suggested
only 2 1/2 turns were effective, so, when backing it out looking for smooth operation
below 4000 RPM, I stopped there. Idle jets are running $32 each, plus
shipping, I assume. It would be worth $70 bucks to get rid of this 4 cycling,
which has to leave me at risk for secondary vibration damage, but as somebody
already observed, my problem sounds like the midrange jet. I see a succession
of throwing parts at it in a hit or miss fashion. If I buy new idle jets, I guess
I would go straight for the #45.
In my ignorance, I have to defer to the local guidance, but I think he might be
wrong. He does not want me to move the mid range jet needle setting. (The needle
is 11G2 I operate at sea level on the third notch) This is because of his
fear of running too lean. When we tried it once, briefly, on notch 2 instead
of 3, he looked at the spark plugs and concluded that it was running too hot,
so we put it back to the third notch. I was running the engine during static test
and recall the EGT to be around 1050. He is a motorcycle guy and the EGT meant
nothing to him. So, who is right? Am I going to burn a hole in my piston
with that EGT or not? Or, am I not asking the right question, am I going to burn
a hole in my piston with a hot looking spark plug? Why should I buy all this
hardware to allow me to lean my engine when I can't even move what I have to
a leaner setting? Thus my dilemma, which I will continue to sleep on. Just typing
it out is therapeutic.
The discussion about clutch disengagement was news to me as well. I have north
of 14000 hours and 30 years of flying, and I feel like a complete idiot. I am
assuming it is a feature of a different gearbox? I have a B box.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131323#131323
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| Subject: | Re: factory flyin |
Looks like me and the wife will fly down. The weather looks to be great for that
weekend also. It is said that there will be transportation for the motels,
I hope so, I think I'm going to be staying in one also. I turned over 1000 hrs
on my fox currently about 1010.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131326#131326
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I'm wondering if the 1100 and/or the 1200 could be turbo'd. Our local strip is
at about 7000ft and I'm not looking forward to spending around 30K on a turbo'd
Rotax (914). This is a ways off so I'll be looking at any options that come
up. If these BMW engines can be turbo'd does anyone have ideas about where to
have it done?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131327#131327
Message 6
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Jan, why not put that pic of the engine in the kitfox dropbox at the following
address. I'd sure love to see it:
http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main
Mark Scott
Elkton, MD USA
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ron Liebmann" <rliebmann@comcast.net>
Hi Jan,
I have been looking at the BMW 1200 for some time now. 115hp on a Rotax gearbox
looks great.
Send me your 1100 picture if you will.
Thanks much, Ron N55KF
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale
The BMW 1100S is a modern engine that don't cost a lot, modern electronic injection,
cheep on fuel, cheep to buy, 85-90 useful HP (depending on RPM) the torque
is almost constant, I have pic from a guy in Poland that replaced his VW 1835
with a BMW he more then doubled the climb rate. speed up to VNE on his dragy
TULAK (highwing side by side plane, MTOW 450 kg / 1000 lbs)
The pic is big is size so if any one want to see I can send to your private mail.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale
Hello Mark. It's amazing how close your FWF is to my own. Almost
identical. In any case I'd be very interested in performance numbers on
your new engine package. I have a mid-time 582 also and would like to
replace it come rebuild time. The HKS is one option, the 912 is the
other as the Jabiru dealers here in Canada have proved unreliable. I
suspect the HKS might come close to the Jabiru in some respects with
it's lower prop RPM. What model are you flying?
Napier, Mark wrote:
>I've bought an HKS 700e and want to start making a motor mount for it.
>I'm flying on my 582 but want to sell it outright or part it out. I
>hate to do it now that good flying weather is coming but have to
>sometime.
>
> p; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron======================
bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
<html><body>
<DIV>Jan, why not put that pic of the engine in the kitfox dropbox at the following
address. I'd sure love to see it:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main">http://www.sportflight.com/cgi-bin/uploader.pl?action=main</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mark Scott</DIV>
<DIV>Elkton, MD USA</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Ron Liebmann"
<rliebmann@comcast.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Hi Jan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>I have been looking at the BMW 1200 for some time
now. 115hp on a Rotax gearbox looks great.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Send me your 1100 picture if you will.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=5>Thanks much, Ron
N55KF</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT:
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- <FONT size=5>Original</FONT> Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:31 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward
for Sale</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The BMW 1100S is a modern engine that don't cost a
lot, modern electronic injection, cheep on fuel, cheep to buy, 85-90 useful HP
(depending on RPM) the torque is almost constant, I have pic from a guy
in Poland that replaced his VW 1835 with a BMW he more then doubled the climb
rate. speed up to VNE on his dragy TULAK (highwing side by side plane, MTOW
450 kg / 1000 lbs)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The pic is big is size so if any one want to see I
can send to your private mail. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jan</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT:
#000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=occom@ns.sympatico.ca href="mailto:occom@ns.sympatico.ca">Dave G.</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=kitfox-list@matronics.com href="mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com">kitfox-list@matronics.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 25, 2007 7:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward
for Sale</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G." <<A href="mailto:occom@ns.sympatico.ca">occom@ns.sympatico.ca</A>><BR><BR>Hello Mark. It's amazing how close your FWF is to my own. Almost <BR>identical. In any case I'd be very interested in performance numbers on <BR>your new engine package. I have a mid-time 582 also and would like to <BR>replace it come rebuild time. The HKS is one option, the 912 is the <BR>other as the Jabiru dealers here in Canada have proved unreliable. I <BR>suspect the HKS might come close to the Jabiru in some respects with <BR>it's lower prop RPM. What model are you flying?<BR><BR>Napier, Mark wrote:<BR><BR>>I've bought an HKS 700e and want to start making a motor mount for it.<BR>>I'm flying on my 582 but want to sell it outright or part it out. I<BR>>hate to do it now that good flying weather is coming but have to<BR>>sometime.<BR>><BR>> p;  
; 
; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron=======================<BR>bsp; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</A><B============<BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" color=#000000 size=2>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</A>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 7
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Found this http://dot.com.ph/uncle/bmwr1turbo.html
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: JSD
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: BMW 1100S
I'm wondering if the 1100 and/or the 1200 could be turbo'd. Our local
strip is at about 7000ft and I'm not looking forward to spending around
30K on a turbo'd Rotax (914). This is a ways off so I'll be looking at
any options that come up. If these BMW engines can be turbo'd does
anyone have ideas about where to have it done?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131327#131327
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale |
Would like to see that please, Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: JC Propellerdesign
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:31 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale
The BMW 1100S is a modern engine that don't cost a lot, modern
electronic injection, cheep on fuel, cheep to buy, 85-90 useful HP
(depending on RPM) the torque is almost constant, I have pic from a guy
in Poland that replaced his VW 1835 with a BMW he more then doubled the
climb rate. speed up to VNE on his dragy TULAK (highwing side by side
plane, MTOW 450 kg / 1000 lbs)
The pic is big is size so if any one want to see I can send to your
private mail.
Jan
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave G.
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Fireward Forward for Sale
Hello Mark. It's amazing how close your FWF is to my own. Almost
identical. In any case I'd be very interested in performance numbers
on
your new engine package. I have a mid-time 582 also and would like
to
replace it come rebuild time. The HKS is one option, the 912 is the
other as the Jabiru dealers here in Canada have proved unreliable. I
suspect the HKS might come close to the Jabiru in some respects with
it's lower prop RPM. What model are you flying?
Napier, Mark wrote:
>I've bought an HKS 700e and want to start making a motor mount for
it.
>I'm flying on my 582 but want to sell it outright or part it out.
I
>hate to do it now that good flying weather is coming but have to
>sometime.
>
> p; Features Subscriptions
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
======================
bsp; available via
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 9
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Thanks for the link. This is getting interesting! Hope someone tries that soon
& tells us about it.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131370#131370
Message 10
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Please remove my address from this list.
second request
Tony
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
The clutch is only available for the C gear box.. but is is one heck of an upgrade.
A nice SMOOTH idle even when cold. The plane does not try to move during
warm up on floats.. the list goes on and on..
No need to feel like an idiot. This is a whole new ball game for you and the only
dumb question is the one that you dont ask... and that is usually the one
that leaves you stuck in the trees at the end of the runway lol....
If the EGTs were 1050 then I would say you were where you need to be. did you
take it around the patch? 1050 to 1100 is what you are looking for.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131373#131373
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
I wouldn't say my knowledge is all that great -> limited to my engine on
my plane only.
Also, your mechanic friend is right. If you can stop the engine and
read the plugs that is a good way to verify the mixture. But, how do
you do that? The only mixture that really counts is the one where the
prop unloads in the air and you pull the throttle back. You would have
to kill the motor under those conditions over the field, get the prop to
stop freewheeling so it doesn't drive the motor, dead stick land, and
then read the plugs. No thank you.
Also, he is right that the EGT's are only exact if the probes are the
correct distance from the exhaust port, the probes are new, and the
outside temperature is 70 degrees. Otherwise you have to use them as
advisory. The Westach web site tells a good deal about these gauges.
Interestingly, I've talked with a couple of guys at Mountain Airpark who
run 582's on 2-place single sail ultralights that are very draggy. They
run the stock jetting and the EGT's don't vary much at all. The only
thing I can figure is that the engines don't unload much in the air due
to the draggy airframes and the props are very flat to produce thrust at
low speed.
Think of it this way: the engine is a pump for air. At a given RPM it
will pump through about the same amount of air with some variation due
to pressure (vacuum) from the throttle setting but the main driver is
simply RPM. However, the slide carb changes the amount of gas delivered
mainly based on the slide position. Again, there is some variation due
to the amount of air (venturi vacuum) pulled through the carb by the
engine (RPM) but the main control is the slide position. The engine RPM
is controlled by the amount of charge in the cylinders (torque) and the
load imposed by the prop.
So increase the load, the engine slows down and pumps less air, the carb
still supplies gas at a rate governed by the throttle setting so the
mixture gets rich. Decrease the load and the engine speeds up and the
opposite happens. Point the nose down at cruise and pull the throttle
back to produce less power. The RPM remains about the same because of
the reduced load. The decreased pressure does reduce the power and the
prop load is also reduced but the slide position greatly leans the
mixture and the EGT's rise. Some less air but much less gas.
So anyway, I would just keep trying things one at a time. Don't let
your EGT's go over 1200 degrees in the air or you will toast the rings,
1100 is a good target. The prop pitch is the #1 mixture control. High
pitch means the engine will run hot (water temp -> producing power) but
the EGT's will be low (running rich). Low pitch gives you the opposite.
My GSC prop is pitched to where it will only do about 5900 on the ground
so my engine runs rich.
Yeah, $70 a pop for mixture changes stinks but so does having the plugs
foul up and the engine quit on final. Mine did that several times
before I got the idle right. I took to coming in high with power and
standing on the rudder to slip down to a landing. The habit remains.
It does help to keep the water temps up in cool weather.
I did that one day when it was windy and got batted around a good deal
coming down. Then off came cowling to poke around inside. While I was
doing that a police car come up. Someone had reported a plane coming
down in distress and he was looking for the accident. Humm. Guess if
my approach and landing can't be distinguished from a crash in progress
by the casual observer I should work on my technique a little more.
:^)
Cheers,
Mark Napier
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Message 13
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Tony , try this.
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
-----Original Message-----
From: LaNita Begola <mrsb44@msn.com>
Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:36 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: list
?
Please remove my address from this list.
?
second request
?
Tony
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 14
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A company from Montreal, Canada sells complete kits with a good looking
redrive for this engine. The owner is a Russian aircraft engineer and sells
mostly Geo Metro engines that he has developed a turbo for. I'm sure he can
help you out with your needs. I too was looking at this engine.
Tim Vader
Classic IV, Subaru
Calgary, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "JSD" <sctmch@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: BMW 1100S
>
> I'm wondering if the 1100 and/or the 1200 could be turbo'd. Our local
> strip is at about 7000ft and I'm not looking forward to spending around
> 30K on a turbo'd Rotax (914). This is a ways off so I'll be looking at any
> options that come up. If these BMW engines can be turbo'd does anyone have
> ideas about where to have it done?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131327#131327
>
>
> --
> 9:34 PM
>
>
Message 15
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Yes, there is a company here in Ca. that sells a complete kit for the
BMW engine from mild to wild. AS far as the conversion there is also a
company that specializes in the complete FWF BMW conversion. I will look
them up if you are interested.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSD
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: BMW 1100S
I'm wondering if the 1100 and/or the 1200 could be turbo'd. Our local
strip is at about 7000ft and I'm not looking forward to spending around
30K on a turbo'd Rotax (914). This is a ways off so I'll be looking at
any options that come up. If these BMW engines can be turbo'd does
anyone have ideas about where to have it done?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131327#131327
8/27/2007 6:20 PM
8/27/2007 6:20 PM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Prelim Crash Info |
Does anyone have more on this?
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 1158S Make/Model: EXP Description: KITFOX MODEL 5
Date: 08/27/2007 Time: 0230
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: GUTHRIE State: OK Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED FUEL EXHAUSTION, HIT A POWERLINE, AND CRASHED INTO A
FIELD, NEAR GUTHRIE, OK
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR GOK270153 15006KT 9SM CLR 28/12 A2994
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: OKLAHOMA CITY, OK (SW15) Entry date: 08/27/2007
Message 17
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Sorry, the company is called Air Trikes. Web site is
http://airtrikes.net/main.html
Tim Vader
Classic IV, Subaru
----- Original Message -----
From: "JSD" <sctmch@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: BMW 1100S
>
> Thanks for the link. This is getting interesting! Hope someone tries that
> soon & tells us about it.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131370#131370
>
>
> --
> 6:20 PM
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
I will play with it again tomorrow, hopefully. But I will say this. Due to a Tach
out of whack, I was originally turning only 5500 static. Now that I have it
tuned for 6200, the EGTs have come up from around 950 to around 1050. Last time
I flew, I looked for an EGT rise in an idle descent (didn't know to watch out
for it before that). I did not see any tendancy for them to rise toward 1200.
I never really saw above 1050. I might take that to indicate that I still have
room to make the mixture leaner, namely move the jet needle to #2 slot.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131389#131389
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Thanks again for the links. Yes Rick, I'd sure be interested in looking into that
conversion if you can find them.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131400#131400
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We have a couple of vehicles....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of john oakley
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: factory
Hi guys,
How is everyone getting to the motel from the fly in? It seems a long ways
to walk, you know I am old and fat...
John Oakley
6:20 PM
6:20 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding |
Bill, what is the highest cht temp you are running on a super hot day, with
high density altitude?
Reason I am asking because I have been running 192 (worst condition) on a 4
minute climbout at 6500 rpm. It then will come down to about 178 at cruise
at 5200. I dont like the 192 degrees as the 582 grey head limits are suppose
to be 180 max. I havent tried reducing the antifreeze but I have heard it
helps cool the engine. I also have double radiators in tandem under the
belly. Also have you heard anything about the orange stuff (for the
greyhead) running any hotter than the green?
Bill Malpass
----- Original Message -----
From: "william wheet" <wheetfly@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding
>
> When I had my KF III 582 gray head I had to run 70%
> water to bring my temps 180deg. U mite try that 50% in
> winter
> do not archive
> Bill in maine
> --- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
>
>> <bnn@nethere.com>
>>
>> At 03:22 PM 8/26/2007, you wrote:
>> >I even placed the tail wheel on a barrel to ensure
>> the cylinder head
>> >was level and prevent air entrapment inside the
>> head while filling and bleeding
>> >What am I missing?
>>
>> Make sure there are no bubbles in the head. (Tilt,
>> shake, bleed, run,
>> repeat.) Make sure you bleed the pump housing, if
>> you can. (Mine has
>> ports top and bottom.) Make sure you're running
>> 50/50 coolant /
>> distilled water. Finally, were your old hoses so bad
>> that they might
>> have left chunks in the system?
>>
>>
>> Guy Buchanan
>> San Diego, CA
>> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
>> to Bob Ducar.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>>
>> Web Forums!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Bill Wheet
> Buxton, Me.
> FsII 503
>
>
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> that gives answers, not web links.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Hey Jeff,
I didn't answer your main questions. By raising the needle I mean lower
the clip to the next available notch to enrich the mid-range. Your guy
is probably right that moving the clip to the 2nd notch will run the
motor too lean esp. in the air where it counts.
If you put in a leaner idle jet your lower midrange will be leaner as
well. If you raise the needle (by lowering the clip) that will make
your idle a little richer so that you will need a leaner idle jet.
Going to a larger needle jet enriches the mixture across the entire
mid-range. Raising the needle mostly enriches it at the lower end. The
main jet sets the full-throttle mixture and affects the high-end of the
mid-range.
Regarding the air-bypass screw, you can only back it out a few turns
before the o-ring starts showing and then the darn thing will vibrate
out. There's no adjustment left so you have to go to the next leaner
jet.
1050 is probably OK during static run up but I hate to say because I
don't know anything about your prop, how it is pitched, what RPM your
static is, how draggy your plane is, how accurate the measurement is
etc. For the 1st flight you can be a little rich on the main jet as
long as you are making good power. You'll just have to make your best
guess on the ground and fly it to see.
That clutch is an aftermarket option on the C gearbox. One guy here had
one on his ultralight. He could cut the motor and land *very* short.
The reason is that he could get the engine to disengage at idle in the
air and then the prop would spool up like a windmill and add tremendous
drag. I don't want that on my plane. An engine out would be
interesting enough already.
BTW, my idle is set up so that it is around 2000 on the ground and
pretty stable but I don't run it there because of the gear lash. I
usually warm up and motor around in the grass at around 3000. But on
landing you want that low power setting so you don't "float" down the
runway. Because of the reduced load it is still be turning ~2400 until
I touch down.
14000 hours? Wow. I've only got around 320 with 200 in this little
bird. Pretty funny flying into Asheville with all the big corporate
jets. Sunday I went in and there was a military jet trainer holding
short waiting for me to land so they could take off. No, I didn't stop
on the runway but the Kitfox is so slow that even flying down to the
exit to land I'm sure it looked that way to them.
Cheers,
Mark Napier
- - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to
the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Mark, again you said a mouthful, am trying to decipher. I was contemplating moving
my jet needle to a leaner position. I gather that you don't think I should
set my jet needle leaner, be it up or down. You must be saying to concentrate
on the air screw, AKA idle jet. The "main jet", is essientially the seat that
the needle interfaces with, right? The "needle jet" would be the combination
of needle and jet, and the "jet needle", is the needle part of the needle jet,
right?
You said: "Going to a larger needle jet enriches the mixture across the entire
mid-range. Raising the needle mostly enriches it at the lower end. The main jet
sets the full-throttle mixture and affects the high-end of the
mid-range."
Right back at you: I was contemplating lowering the needle, which by reverse logic,
would keep the same mixture at full throttle and leave unaffected the "high
end of the mid range". Thus, I would be only leaning out the low end of the
mid range, which is where I am getting the 4 cycling, I think.
I got lucky and caught the leading edge of the 80's hiring spree right after the
USAF. Besides heavy metal, I have been busy recently with Civil Air Patrol.
Low and slow will be just what the doctor ordered if I can work out the bugs.
Is that Asheville, NC?
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131418#131418
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| Subject: | Prelim Crash Info |
Nothing more, other than the reggistrartion data from FAA at:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?verified=1&NNumbertxt=11
58S
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of royall
merill
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Prelim Crash Info
Does anyone have more on this?
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 1158S Make/Model: EXP Description: KITFOX MODEL 5
Date: 08/27/2007 Time: 0230
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: GUTHRIE State: OK Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED FUEL EXHAUSTION, HIT A POWERLINE, AND CRASHED INTO A
FIELD, NEAR GUTHRIE, OK
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR GOK270153 15006KT 9SM CLR 28/12 A2994
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: OKLAHOMA CITY, OK (SW15) Entry date: 08/27/2007
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
I do tend to ramble on....
About the parts on the carb that affect the mixture; there are:
* The idle jet.
* The jet needle.
* The needle jet (You have to unscrew the mixer to get to this one) -
the needle goes in and out of it.
* The main jet (at the bottom of the mixer) - the screen is around it at
the bottom of the bowl. Small and fairly cheap for a Bing part.
* The screen - never run without: it breaks up the bubbles and the
mixture won't be right without it.
* The air bypass idle mixture screw.
* The idle stop screw.
* The float arm (adjust the tab for correct float level - that affects
the mixture)
You might want to call up Bing and order the manual for the carbs. I
think it is still less than $20 and is well worth it for the amount of
head-banging it eliminates.
You are right, lowering the needle will lean the lower part of the
midrange. I still wouldn't drop that needle without trying a leaner
idle jet 1st. The reason is the midrange does tend to run warm. Mine
does anyway.
Yep, Asheville NC. I live just east of Atlanta and that's a fun
x-country except for the last couple of minutes under the class C
airspace. Weather and hills make it interesting to get back out
sometimes.
- - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - -
This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to
the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are
not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any
part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Yes, my education on this needs to continue, and I am sure the Bing manual would
be quite enlightening. Meanwhile from your list, you cite an "idle jet" and
the "air bypass idle mixture screw". You could have convinced me they were the
same thing. I think I get it nonetheless, it is the air bypass mixture screw
that I should try changing, from the standard #55 to a 50 or 45.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131444#131444
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
A comment about Bing carburetors. If egts' stay near the same when throttle is
reduced then as I have come to understand the needle and the main jet are "balanced".
Whether the carb is running rich, lean or just right needs to be diagnosed
by means other than the egt meter. The meters are okay for relative readings
but not so good for absolute degrees.
Diagnosis of mixture can be from the color of the plugs if taxiing back to the
ramp does not contaminate them. I have found the starting enrichening circuit
(choke) to be helpful. While in cruise mode pull the choke on gradually. If
the rpms increase then mixture is too lean. If rpms drop then mixture is too
rich. If you see no change then mixture is good.
Others may have developed different approaches.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Napier, Mark" <Mark.Napier@sciatl.com>
>
> I do tend to ramble on....
>
> About the parts on the carb that affect the mixture; there are:
>
> * The idle jet.
> * The jet needle.
> * The needle jet (You have to unscrew the mixer to get to this one) -
> the needle goes in and out of it.
> * The main jet (at the bottom of the mixer) - the screen is around it at
> the bottom of the bowl. Small and fairly cheap for a Bing part.
> * The screen - never run without: it breaks up the bubbles and the
> mixture won't be right without it.
> * The air bypass idle mixture screw.
> * The idle stop screw.
> * The float arm (adjust the tab for correct float level - that affects
> the mixture)
>
> You might want to call up Bing and order the manual for the carbs. I
> think it is still less than $20 and is well worth it for the amount of
> head-banging it eliminates.
>
> You are right, lowering the needle will lean the lower part of the
> midrange. I still wouldn't drop that needle without trying a leaner
> idle jet 1st. The reason is the midrange does tend to run warm. Mine
> does anyway.
>
> Yep, Asheville NC. I live just east of Atlanta and that's a fun
> x-country except for the last couple of minutes under the class C
> airspace. Weather and hills make it interesting to get back out
> sometimes.
>
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - -
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential,
> proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely
> intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to
> the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are
> not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any
> part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender
> immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>A comment about Bing carburetors. If egts' stay near the same when throttle
is reduced then as I have come to understand the needle and the main jet are
"balanced". Whether the carb is running rich, lean or just right needs
to be diagnosed by means other than the egt meter. The meters are okay for
relative readings but not so good for absolute degrees.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Diagnosis of mixture can be from the color of the plugs if taxiing back to
the ramp does not contaminate them. I have found the starting enrichening
circuit (choke) to be helpful. While in cruise mode pull the choke on
gradually. If the rpms increase then mixture is too lean. If rpms
drop then mixture is too rich. If you see no change then mixture is good.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Others may have developed different approaches.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Napier, Mark"
<Mark.Napier@sciatl.com> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: "Napier, Mark" <MARK.NAPIER@SCIATL.COM><BR>> <BR>> I do tend to ramble
on.... <BR>> <BR>> About the parts on the carb that affect the mixture;
there are: <BR>> <BR>> * The idle jet. <BR>> * The jet needle.
<BR>> * The needle jet (You have to unscrew the mixer to get to this one) -
<BR>> the needle goes in and out of it. <BR>> * The main jet (at the bottom
of the mixer) - the screen is around it at <BR>> the bottom of the bowl.
Small and fairly cheap for a Bing part. <BR>> * The screen - never run without:
it breaks up the bubbles and the <BR>> mixture won't be right without
it. <BR>> * The air bypass idle mixture screw. <BR>> * The idle stop
screw. <BR>> * The float arm (adjust the tab for c
orrect
float level - that affects <BR>> the mixture) <BR>> <BR>> You might want
to call up Bing and order the manual for the carbs. I <BR>> think it is
still less than $20 and is well worth it for the amount of <BR>> head-banging
it eliminates. <BR>> <BR>> You are right, lowering the needle will lean
the lower part of the <BR>> midrange. I still wouldn't drop that needle
without trying a leaner <BR>> idle jet 1st. The reason is the midrange does
tend to run warm. Mine <BR>> does anyway. <BR>> <BR>> Yep, Asheville
NC. I live just east of Atlanta and that's a fun <BR>> x-country except for
the last couple of minutes under the class C <BR>> airspace. Weather and
hills make it interesting to get back out <BR>> sometimes. <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta,
a Cisco company - - - - - <BR>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain
information which is confidential, <BR>> propr
ietary
=====
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox/582 coolant bleeding |
I sorted the problem this evening by a combination of pipe massage and bleeding
from the vent pipe held aloft and then plugging it with thumb before reconnecting
quickly before it could draw in air all the while topping up the system-
a four handed job- temps now 80 on the ground and sustained climb, 75 in the cruise-
back to normal
Thanks for all the advise.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131453#131453
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
http://www.ultralightnews.ca/bing/
If you scroll down, it has alot of links.. it will answer all you questions, give
you pics and diagrams and articles. Should have everything you need.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131471#131471
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Thanks john, we will see you there.
John and kathy Oakley
5NX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: factory
We have a couple of vehicles....
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of john oakley
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: factory
Hi guys,
How is everyone getting to the motel from the fly in? It seems a long ways
to walk, you know I am old and fat...
John Oakley
6:20 PM
6:20 PM
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| Subject: | Prelim Crash Info |
The FAA shows 1158S to have some questions about its registration however it
also says that it was sold to a Stanley Custard. I believe this is the same
gentleman who gave me a demo ride back in '02 when I was shopping around for
a plane to buy. It was a Model 5 and it was in less than ideal condition
back then, but I still went for a ride in it. The plane had an old run out
Continental, no doors and no radio or intercom so who needs a head set. And
when we landed after about a 20 min. flight the tail wheel broke. Believe it
or not I was still impressed with the plane.
Roger Mac
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of royall merill
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 11:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Prelim Crash Info
Does anyone have more on this?
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 1158S Make/Model: EXP Description: KITFOX MODEL 5
Date: 08/27/2007 Time: 0230
Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: Minor Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor
LOCATION
City: GUTHRIE State: OK Country: US
DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED FUEL EXHAUSTION, HIT A POWERLINE, AND CRASHED INTO A
FIELD, NEAR GUTHRIE, OK
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 1 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR GOK270153 15006KT 9SM CLR 28/12 A2994
OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER
FAA FSDO: OKLAHOMA CITY, OK (SW15) Entry date: 08/27/2007
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | ModII 912 installation |
I have a 912 arriving here tomorrow sometime... The earlier the better as
it's supposed to be a fantastic day for flying again.
I was wondering if anyone has pictures of their installation on a model II.
I have contacted John McB. and I expect to get the engine mount from him.
Now I have to worry about how to install the cowl.
Buckets of photos would be appreciated... The high speed is now working
let's put it to the test!
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Jeffrey, You should take a look at the back sextion of the CPS catalog
entitiled Proper care and feeding of the Rotax motor. Part 10 is Tuning the
Bing carberator. It has pictures of all the parts and how they work. I
believe you can read them on line also. Their website is
www.800-airwolf.com. Reading this will help you quite a bit. Also, the
plugs tell the story, but what should you look for in the plugs? Shorty had
a picture of his plugs that were just right posted at one point. A picture
is better than many words trying to describe colors ect. Maybe he will
chime in, but I think he had it posted on the lazair site where they used to
post vidieos. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Jabiru 2200 (finally)
>From: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily@comcast.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 engine adjustments
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:14:18 -0700
>
>
>Yes, my education on this needs to continue, and I am sure the Bing manual
>would be quite enlightening. Meanwhile from your list, you cite an "idle
>jet" and the "air bypass idle mixture screw". You could have convinced me
>they were the same thing. I think I get it nonetheless, it is the air
>bypass mixture screw that I should try changing, from the standard #55 to a
>50 or 45.
>
>--------
>Jeff Dill
>Model 2, 767JD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131444#131444
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: 582 engine adjustments |
Good advice!
Why not go direct to CPS (California Power Systems) own tech articles just here:
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm
Torgeir
> From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk [thesupe@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 2007-08-29 05:36:27 CEST
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 engine adjustments
>
>
> Jeffrey, You should take a look at the back sextion of the CPS catalog
> entitiled Proper care and feeding of the Rotax motor. Part 10 is Tuning the
> Bing carberator. It has pictures of all the parts and how they work. I
> believe you can read them on line also. Their website is
> www.800-airwolf.com. Reading this will help you quite a bit. Also, the
> plugs tell the story, but what should you look for in the plugs? Shorty had
> a picture of his plugs that were just right posted at one point. A picture
> is better than many words trying to describe colors ect. Maybe he will
> chime in, but I think he had it posted on the lazair site where they used to
> post vidieos. Hope this helps, Jim Chuk Avid MK IV Jabiru 2200 (finally)
>
>
> >From: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily@comcast.net>
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 engine adjustments
> >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:14:18 -0700
> >
> >
> >Yes, my education on this needs to continue, and I am sure the Bing manual
> >would be quite enlightening. Meanwhile from your list, you cite an "idle
> >jet" and the "air bypass idle mixture screw". You could have convinced me
> >they were the same thing. I think I get it nonetheless, it is the air
> >bypass mixture screw that I should try changing, from the standard #55 to a
> >50 or 45.
> >
> >--------
> >Jeff Dill
> >Model 2, 767JD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=131444#131444
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> More photos, more messages, more storage?get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
>
>
>
>
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