Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 AM - Guy's article in Sport Aviation (Lynn Matteson)
2. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: Lowell Fitt Accident (Michel Verheughe)
3. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Crash Followup (jdmcbean)
4. 11:12 AM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (debrun26@juno.com)
5. 11:37 AM - Re: Guy's article in Sport Aviation (Guy Buchanan)
6. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Lowell Fitt Accident (Guy Buchanan)
7. 11:54 AM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (Clem Nichols)
8. 12:21 PM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (fox5flyer)
9. 12:35 PM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (GENTRYLL@aol.com)
10. 02:05 PM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (Peter Graichen)
11. 04:47 PM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (John W. Hart)
12. 05:08 PM - Re: South East Kitfox Owners (kitfoxjim)
13. 05:51 PM - Seat Reinforcement (kitfoxjim)
14. 05:58 PM - Lowell Fitt Accident - Update (jdmcbean)
15. 06:15 PM - Re: Seat Reinforcement (fox5flyer)
16. 06:55 PM - Re: Sooby NSI engine (debrun26@juno.com)
17. 07:16 PM - Re: Seat Reinforcement (CDE2fly@aol.com)
18. 08:43 PM - Re: Lowell Fitt Accident - Update (Steve Shinabery)
19. 09:13 PM - Re: Kitfoxes at Kitty Hawk Oct 6 (wingnut)
20. 09:22 PM - Seat Reinforcement (Zimmermans)
21. 10:12 PM - Re: Lowell Fitt Accident (John Allen)
22. 11:11 PM - Re: Lowell Fitt Accident - Update (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Guy's article in Sport Aviation |
Congrats to Guy Buchanan for getting his article published in the
September issue....now we know who Bob Ducar is...he's one of the
seven people pictured, right?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/395+ hrs
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
On Sep 1, 2007, at 10:57 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> How's that for nonsense?
I beg to differ, Guy, what you write is everything but nonsense! :-)
Of course if car meets car, the heaviest wins. But I still feel safer
in my very light Kitfox ... unless I had an aircraft heavier than ...
the earth.
And I am sorry I called it a Cherokee, it was, of course, a Bonanza. As
seen from here, all those Pipers look the same. :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Crash Followup |
Dido Guy...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Crash Followup
At 11:34 AM 9/1/2007, you wrote:
>Does ANYONE have any info on what happened? Has anyone got an
>update on Lowell and his wifes condition?
Hi all,
Since Lowell's condition was fairly satisfactory I was
waiting until he got back on the web to explain. I understand,
though, your concerns so I will pass on what I have received second
hand. (Mark Ferkin talking to Lowell by cell.) I have been unwilling
to pester him by phone since Mark and others have passed on my
solicitations, and right now it appears Lowell does not need
additional assistance.
Lowell crushed a lower back disk and was to go into surgery
yesterday, (Friday,) morning. Otherwise he was in fairly good repair.
He apparently handled the recovery of the airplane himself by phone
and so did not need any assistance from me in that regard. I have not
yet heard the results of the surgery.
His wife Kay apparently gashed her knee bad enough to require some
surgery, (it didn't sound major,) but was otherwise OK.
I will not comment on the accident at all as I'm sure that can wait
until Lowell returns.
As I said, this is second hand, so I hope I have it right. In any
case I believe Lowell will return to us fairly soon to set things straight.
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
5:21 PM
4:20 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Sooby NSI engine |
I have an NSI engine with throttle body injection.... and was wondering
if I should be flying with the fuel pump on all the time? Once in a whi
le while idling on the ground the engine will quit and on climb out it d
rops rpm as though it's choking, and then will go back to full power. I
thought it might be a fuel filter problem but there wasn't one. Fuel f
low seems OK but i wonder if it needs more under full power?
Layne S5 Anchorage, Alaska
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| Subject: | Re: Guy's article in Sport Aviation |
At 03:38 AM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
>Congrats to Guy Buchanan for getting his article published in the
>September issue....now we know who Bob Ducar is...he's one of the
>seven people pictured, right?
Thanks Lynn,
Actually no. I sent in two pictures of Bob, before and
after, but neither were "digital quality" so I imagine that's why
they didn't use them. Bob wasn't there for first flight which is
what's pictured on the lead page. It was a shame, as I was really
hoping to get his picture into the article.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
At 03:54 AM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
>And I am sorry I called it a Cherokee, it was, of course, a Bonanza.
>As seen from here, all those Pipers look the same. :-)
THEM'S FIGHTEN' WORDS, BOY! ;-)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sooby NSI engine |
I run mine from startup to shutdown. Am I not supposed to?
Clem Nichols
Model 4-1200
----- Original Message -----
From: debrun26@juno.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sooby NSI engine
I have an NSI engine with throttle body injection.... and was
wondering if I should be flying with the fuel pump on all the time?
Once in a while while idling on the ground the engine will quit and on
climb out it drops rpm as though it's choking, and then will go back to
full power. I thought it might be a fuel filter problem but there
wasn't one. Fuel flow seems OK but i wonder if it needs more under full
power?
Layne S5 Anchorage, Alaska
_____________________________________________________________
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sooby NSI engine |
To answer your question (assuming you have the normally aspirated
version), after I reach cruising rpm/speed/altitude I shut my fuel pump
off. I only use it for start, climb, and landing.
The other symptoms you describe sound like it's running rich. The
Ellison throttle body is a very simple carb and once it's adjusted
correctly it should hold indefinitely. Do you have a fuel pressure
indicator? Possibly your fuel pump is putting out too much pressure? I
believe it should be around 4-5psi when it's pumping.
Although it doesn't sound like ignition, you might try shutting off one
of the ignitions when it's acting up to see if it changes anything. If
you're in the air I'd recommend that you only do this when you have an
airport under you.
Hope this helps a little.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
----- Original Message -----
From: debrun26@juno.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sooby NSI engine
I have an NSI engine with throttle body injection.... and was
wondering if I should be flying with the fuel pump on all the time?
Once in a while while idling on the ground the engine will quit and on
climb out it drops rpm as though it's choking, and then will go back to
full power. I thought it might be a fuel filter problem but there
wasn't one. Fuel flow seems OK but i wonder if it needs more under full
power?
Layne S5 Anchorage, Alaska
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to increase your salary by earning an online degree.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Sooby NSI engine |
I had tremendous trouble with mine, flooding, running too rich, fouling
plugs, etc.. It went back to Ellison six times for repair at a cost high enough
that I could have bought a new one. I talked to Ram Performance and was
going to put his entire intake on mine to get back to flying. He said to drop
the pressure from 4 to 5 as recomment by Ellison and run 1 1/2 to 2. I did and
it has run perfectly since.
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 10
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| Subject: | Sooby NSI engine |
Hello Layne:
I run mine with electric fuel pump running from startup until shutdown. It
runs at about 4.5 psi
Peter
________________________________
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
debrun26@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, 02 September, 2007 14:07
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sooby NSI engine
I have an NSI engine with throttle body injection.... and was wondering if I
should be flying with the fuel pump on all the time? Once in a while while
idling on the ground the engine will quit and on climb out it drops rpm as
though it's choking, and then will go back to full power. I thought it
might be a fuel filter problem but there wasn't one. Fuel flow seems OK but
i wonder if it needs more under full power?
Layne S5 Anchorage, Alaska
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to increase your salary by earning an online degree.
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Sooby NSI engine |
The Operating Limits for the NSI EA81 Engines, provided by NSI states,
"Special Note: Engine fuel starvation will begin to effect full power
operation with less than 3 psi. Maximum power setting will continue to drop
as fuel pressure decreases. (Below 3 PSI)".
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
debrun26@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sooby NSI engine
I have an NSI engine with throttle body injection.... and was wondering if
I should be flying with the fuel pump on all the time? Once in a while
while idling on the ground the engine will quit and on climb out it drops
rpm as though it's choking, and then will go back to full power. I thought
it might be a fuel filter problem but there wasn't one. Fuel flow seems OK
but i wonder if it needs more under full power?
Layne S5 Anchorage, Alaska
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to increase your salary by earning an online degree.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: South East Kitfox Owners |
Hi Greenville
I live about 50 miles from Greenville. Be glad to fly in to 34A. Kust let me knpw
a good day. I have a Vixen.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132415#132415
Message 13
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| Subject: | Seat Reinforcement |
Wow! Had a close one yesterday. Has anyone had a seat failure? I have a Vixen and
was doing touch and goes in windy conditions for practice. Had a fairly hard
but not esp hard landing. When I lifted off again, I noticed the controls were
locked.
I then noticed the seat had broke loose and was against control tubes. Managed
to get it down by holding my weight off the seat by grabbing the tubing overhead
long enough to get down. but was very scary
Any suggestions on reinforcing the seat so this wont happen again?
Thanks
kitfoxjim
Kitfox Vixen
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132417#132417
Message 14
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| Subject: | Lowell Fitt Accident - Update |
Talked with Lowell today... The following is some info and I'm sure Lowell
will fill us in on more of the details later.
Lowell had a gradual loss of Oil Pressure that eventually went to Zero.. He
chose to land with power before an engine seize.
Lowell and Kaye's current condition is very good. They both have major
sprained ankles and that is the extent of Kaye's injuries. Lowell also
bumped his head pretty good and has a lumbar disc fracture. The docs feel
that wearing a brace for a bit may allow for healing without the need for
surgery.
I shared with them the thoughts and prayers from the list.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
4:20 PM
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Reinforcement |
It's good that you're okay, Jim.
We had a member on this list who, several years ago, had the exact same
thing happen to him on landing. The nylon cable ties broke loose on a hard
landing, the seat dropped down on the main elevator control rod, locking it.
He lost control and wrecked the airplane pretty bad. I believe it was a
series 5 and I think he had a passenger.
That prompted many of us to add additional support straps to hold the seat
in place. Some used stainless steel straps. I used seat belt 2" wide
straps. Others placed blocks of wood under the seat so that it couldn't
drop down. There were other fixes, but I don't recall what they were.
Perhaps other members can add something.
It's good that your quick and clear thinking was able to save both the
airplane and probably your life. This is obviously something others should
have a good look at.
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxjim" <jim@franchise-u.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 7:48 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Seat Reinforcement
>
> Wow! Had a close one yesterday. Has anyone had a seat failure? I have a
Vixen and was doing touch and goes in windy conditions for practice. Had a
fairly hard but not esp hard landing. When I lifted off again, I noticed the
controls were locked.
>
> I then noticed the seat had broke loose and was against control tubes.
Managed to get it down by holding my weight off the seat by grabbing the
tubing overhead long enough to get down. but was very scary
>
> Any suggestions on reinforcing the seat so this wont happen again?
>
> Thanks
> kitfoxjim
> Kitfox Vixen
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132417#132417
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Sooby NSI engine |
WOW!!! Thanks so much for the help... I don't have a pressure indicator
for the fuel but there is a vaccuum pressure indicator even though ther
e isn't anything run by vaccuum that I can tell. Since most of you run
all the time with the pump running, I'll start dong it also. Peter, I d
id a compression test and found that my clinders varied from 80 lbs to 1
35 lbs dry, and 140 to 220 lbs wet. Does this mean that I need both a r
ing and valve job (with your stainless steel valves)? Layne
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Reinforcement |
Jim:
I'm nearing the completion of a Kitfox 7 and have looked at this issue
fearing the same possibility. My solution was to fabricate a couple of slings
that go under each side of the seat (total of 4 in all) andwrap around the
structural tubeing that suports the seat.
The slings are fabricated from steel strapping normally used for pipe hanger
material that can by purchased at most hardware/home improvement stores in
the plumbing department. The strapping comes with pre-formed holes so once
you have the correct length so that the fiberglass seatpan rests on the slings,
secure with AN hardware. After installing the slings, the seats are very
solid and will withstand much more load than the stock setup.
Chris
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident - Update |
I think that all of us here on the list,Wish Lowell+Kay the best.and
that they are in our prayers. Steve Shinabery,St.Marys Oh.,N554KF KF2
jdmcbean wrote:
>
> Talked with Lowell today... The following is some info and I'm sure Lowell
> will fill us in on more of the details later.
>
> Lowell had a gradual loss of Oil Pressure that eventually went to Zero.. He
> chose to land with power before an engine seize.
>
> Lowell and Kaye's current condition is very good. They both have major
> sprained ankles and that is the extent of Kaye's injuries. Lowell also
> bumped his head pretty good and has a lumbar disc fracture. The docs feel
> that wearing a brace for a bit may allow for healing without the need for
> surgery.
>
> I shared with them the thoughts and prayers from the list.
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
>
> 4:20 PM
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfoxes at Kitty Hawk Oct 6 |
Well.. I guess I jumped the gun a little bit. Looks like the date for the KittyHawk
gathering will be moving to the following weekend (Oct 13). The good news
is that John King has confirmed that he will be attending. The list of confirmed
attending has grown to six, four may be comming in as a flight of four from
EWN. Should be exciting.
Might be a little bit early to mention this but John King and I are in preliminary
discusions about a new flight to The Bahamas in 2008. If anyone here hasn't
seen it, there's a section on sportflight.com on Johns first trip to The Bahamas
back in 04. It's a 'must read' for anyone entertaining such a trip.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132443#132443
Message 20
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| Subject: | Seat Reinforcement |
I used nylon lifting straps.
Jim Series 5 0-200 building.
Lake Elmo MN.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident |
Michel Verheughe wrote:
"...a 30 feet wide, 900 pounds heavy object moving at
40 MPH shouldn't need much to come to a stop."
While a slow deceleration of a light plane is
desirable and survivable, what scares me about
Lowell's accident is that I did not conceive a forced
landing in an open field could be so destructive. I
thought it would not be difficult to land in an open
field in an emergency, which is what Lowell may have
also thought. The way his plane balled up, it was
lucky there was no ignition source to set it on fire.
Without a fire, his accident proves that a forced
landing in a Kitfox IV should be survivable even in a
rapid deceleration situation. Most of the fatal
accidents in Kitfoxes seem to have been stall-spins,
boring in nearly straight down to a sudden stop.
I think my IV Speedster stalls at around 50 MPH when
landing fully loaded at 1200 lbs, not sure about the
IV with longer wings. Your III model would have a
better chance in a forced landing.
Michel Verheughe also wrote:
"Incidentally, a Zodiac 601 with a Rotax 912 from our
club made an
emergency landing in a field today. The engine stopped
after a slow
descent from 4,500 to 1,800 feet. Luckily the pilot
was over one of
those few regions of Norway where we have corn fields.
After a while on the ground, the engine could be
restarted and the plane flew back home. The suspected
cause: carburettor icing."
As to the Zodiac forced landing, the idea of carb ice
is scary because I don't have the box on mine. My
experience with carb ice is that the Bing carb shakes
it loose from time to time and the 912 ingests it,
stumbling briefly, then running at a little higher RPM
than before. I have heard that it can make the 912
quit at certain low temperatures.
Kitfox IV's supposedly have a risk of the engine
quitting on long shallow descents due to fuel flow
problems at shallow glide angles (whereby the flow to
the header tank is not sloped down enough). I break
up long descents by nosing up every so often. Could
the Zodiac have a similar design issue with the fuel flow?
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Lowell Fitt Accident - Update |
At 05:55 PM 9/2/2007, you wrote:
>Lowell and Kaye's current condition is very good. They both have major
>sprained ankles and that is the extent of Kaye's injuries. Lowell also
>bumped his head pretty good and has a lumbar disc fracture. The docs feel
>that wearing a brace for a bit may allow for healing without the need for
>surgery.
That just shows to go ya how good second hand information is! I'm
glad though, your results were much better than mine.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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