Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Actual Build Time (W Duke)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time (Noel Loveys)
3. 06:06 AM - Series 7 POH (dwparker)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time (kitfoxmike)
5. 06:50 AM - Re: kitfox trim. (Lynn Matteson)
6. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Folding wings (Marco Menezes)
7. 08:50 AM - Re: Folding wings (kitfoxmike)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: Series 7 POH (Noel Loveys)
9. 09:50 AM - Re: kitfox trim. (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
10. 09:51 AM - South Carolina Breakfast club at CUB this Sunday (wingnut)
11. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Folding wings (Noel Loveys)
12. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Folding wings (Noel Loveys)
13. 10:03 AM - float revisited (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
14. 10:06 AM - Re: Series 7 POH (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
15. 10:30 AM - Re: Actual Build Time (Marin Streeter)
16. 10:43 AM - Re: Actual Build Time (kitfoxmike)
17. 10:45 AM - Re: Folding wings (kitfoxmike)
18. 10:47 AM - Re: float revisited (wingnut)
19. 11:20 AM - Re: float revisited (kitfoxmike)
20. 11:31 AM - Re: float revisited (wingnut)
21. 11:40 AM - Re: float revisited (kitfoxmike)
22. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: float revisited (Marco Menezes)
23. 01:03 PM - Re: float revisited (dave)
24. 01:11 PM - Re: float revisited (kitfoxmike)
25. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: float revisited (Michel Verheughe)
26. 01:20 PM - Re: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time (Guy Buchanan)
27. 01:25 PM - Re: float revisited (wingnut)
28. 01:32 PM - Re: float revisited (dave)
29. 01:41 PM - Re: float revisited (kitfoxmike)
30. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: float revisited (Sbennett3@aol.com)
31. 01:52 PM - Re: float revisited (dave)
32. 03:01 PM - Re: Series 7 POH (Roger McConnell)
33. 05:39 PM - Re: Series 7 POH (kirk hull)
34. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: float revisited (Steve Shinabery)
35. 06:18 PM - Re: Actual Build Time? (PMorel)
36. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: Actual Build Time? (Kevin Cozik)
37. 07:44 PM - Gas Cap Gasket? (RAY Gignac)
38. 07:54 PM - Re: Actual Build Time (Randy Daughenbaugh)
39. 09:22 PM - Re: BMW 1100S (JSD)
40. 09:29 PM - Re: BMW 1100S (JSD)
41. 10:06 PM - Re: Gas Cap Gasket? (Clem Nichols)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Actual Build Time |
1200 hours for my S6 with 3 colors and an IFR panel.
Dirtbos <dirtbozz@att.net> wrote:
Did a "build time" search with no luck. I would appreciate some input on the actual
build time for the Series 7/Super Sport.
Also, how practical is the folding wing feature? Is it as quick and easy as stated
on the website? It would be nice not to have to pay hangar fees.
Mike Allen
Acton, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132794#132794
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time |
I fly on floats. The road,trail make that path into the pond where I
launch
the plane is quite rough.
I keep the plane in my garage and trailer it round a mile on a low
trailer
each time I want to go flying. the plane is towed head on at 20km/hr
and
never more than 40km/hr (25 mph). Because of the access to the foot of
the
pond I always empty my tanks before trailering the plane.
I would advise, if you are going to do a lot of trailering, the
following:
Empty the wing tanks
Use wing spar supports which attach between the lower longeron and the
front
spar when the wings are folded.
Get some kind of protection for your vertical stabilizer. When the
wings
are folded the ailerons can chafe the vertical stab and rudder.
Tie the ailerons together when towing, especially in reverse. The
supports
that hold the wings in the towing position are almost famous for popping
out
of place.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Menezes
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time
I too unfold and fold mine for every flight. It's great! I'd also
mention
draining fuel post-flight as an important consideration. There's already
alot of weight on the tailwheel with wings folded and tanks empty.
P.S. Real nice article in Sport Aviation, Guy. Beautiful airplane. Can
you
ID the people in the photo for us?
Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
At 05:36 PM 9/4/2007, you wrote:
>Also, how practical is the folding wing feature? Is it as quick and
>easy as stated on the website? It would be nice not to have to pay
>hangar fees.
It CAN be very practical. I fold every time I fly, usually
3-4 times per week, and store in a toy box. However I was very
careful to make it as
Message 3
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I am nearing completion of my Series 7 and am trying to get all the documentation
together for the inspector. I have everything except a POH. I have talked to
Kitfox and they do not have one created yet.
What have other Series 7 builders done to satisfy the POH requirement? Is there
anyone out there that has one I can buy, beg, borrow, or steal?
Thanks,
Dana Parker
Westport, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132867#132867
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time |
Money is not an issue with me, so i have a nice T-hanger. I don't even want to
think of folding wings. I fly every day, sometimes twice a day. I get to the
airport and open the doors, 5 minutes later I'm in the air. Damage can happen
with the kitfox if you get sloppy opening and closing the wings. I guess it
would be ok if you had to do an off field and need to trailer it. I closed
the wings once in 4 years. What a pain in the back side.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132871#132871
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox trim. |
On my initial flights, my test pilot and I moved the horizontal stab
as low as it would go and drilled a new hole to accommodate the front
attaching bolt. I then had to add a 3" tab to the trim tab to further
give enough trim control to the elevator. I have since cut the added
tab down to 2-3/4" because it is too sensitive to the electric trim
control. I'll probably cut one eighth at a time until it suits me.
This trim tab runs the full length...about 26"...of the electric trim
tab.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/400+ hrs
On Sep 3, 2007, at 6:34 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> I recently purchased a kitfox 4 1200 with a rotax 912. When we
> try to trim it out in cruise speed there is still a tendency to
> nose down... I'm lazy and don't want the back pressure... Do any
> of you guys use elevator trim and just move the flaperons full
> forward ? Also, it's a torquey little beast at full power... It
> likes a lot of right rudder on climbout... Should I bend the tail
> trim a little further and use the rt. rudder less on climbout our
> just get used to it ??? Any comments from you old pros will be
> gladly accepted... Steve Bennett Durham NC.
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> ===========================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Sometimes I wish I could leave the wings
open all the time for the kind of quick getaways you describe, Mike. But most
times, I'm glad to have the Fox in the pole barn, 20 steps from my house where
I can tinker with it whenever I want. Also, deploying and then refolding
the wings each time you fly amounts to "automatic" pre and post flight inspections,
which you'd do anyway. All considered, I don't see it as a "pain" at all,
rather it's one of the reasons I'm glad I have a Kitfox.
Money is not an issue with me, so i have a nice T-hanger. I don't even want to
think of folding wings. I fly every day, sometimes twice a day. I get to the airport
and open the doors, 5 minutes later I'm in the air. Damage can happen with
the kitfox if you get sloppy opening and closing the wings. I guess it would
be ok if you had to do an off field and need to trailer it. I closed the wings
once in 4 years. What a pain in the back side.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132871#132871
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
My preinspection is done when I clean the airplane after most flights( I also do
a quick looksy before every flight). I use a cheap window cleaner to clean
the bugs off. I catch most problems when doing this. I concider folding the
wings or unfolding, very much a risk, what I mean by this, something could be
forgotten, from a distraction. Trailering a plane can also cause damage. I understand
why some need to do it, I just don't wish to. I also know that once
I put the airplane away, it is in the same condition as it was when I left it.
That's why I won't go into a community hangar either.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132895#132895
Message 8
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You may want to check with your DAR on this but I believe as manufacturer of
the airplane it is your responsibility to write the POH for your particular
airplane.
It doesn't have to be a thick document like the later model Cessna's have.
Early super cubs had a POH/Maintenance Manual that was only a few pages.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwparker
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 10:36 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 POH
>
>
> <d.parker@sentinelfc.com>
>
> I am nearing completion of my Series 7 and am trying to get
> all the documentation together for the inspector. I have
> everything except a POH. I have talked to Kitfox and they do
> not have one created yet.
>
> What have other Series 7 builders done to satisfy the POH
> requirement? Is there anyone out there that has one I can
> buy, beg, borrow, or steal?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Dana Parker
> Westport, IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132867#132867
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox trim. |
Boy! This could become an embroiled discussion. My experience was just the opposite
of Lynn's. Initially the horizontal was lowered to help "carve" around
in the turns but we were not happy with the cruise trim. I believe we measured
the flap setting to be 11 +/- degrees for level flight.
Ultimately, we moved the horzontal stab to its highest setting, sealed the horizontal/elevator
gap and trimmed for level flight with the flaperons. We set the
ailerons at neutral with the jib then flew to assess the situation. It took
very little up (forward handle) trim from that point for level flight at 90-95
kts. We picked up speed because we were no longer dragging the flap, they
were acutually a little reflexed.
We found that a little more rudder was needed in the turns but overall performance
was improved significantly.
John Kerr
Classic IV/912, 766 hours as of this morning.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> On my initial flights, my test pilot and I moved the horizontal stab
> as low as it would go and drilled a new hole to accommodate the front
> attaching bolt. I then had to add a 3" tab to the trim tab to further
> give enough trim control to the elevator. I have since cut the added
> tab down to 2-3/4" because it is too sensitive to the electric trim
> control. I'll probably cut one eighth at a time until it suits me.
> This trim tab runs the full length...about 26"...of the electric trim
> tab.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/400+ hrs
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2007, at 6:34 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I recently purchased a kitfox 4 1200 with a rotax 912. When we
> > try to trim it out in cruise speed there is still a tendency to
> > nose down... I'm lazy and don't want the back pressure... Do any
> > of you guys use elevator trim and just move the flaperons full
> > forward ? Also, it's a torquey little beast at full power... It
> > likes a lot of right rudder on climbout... Should I bend the tail
> > trim a little further and use the rt. rudder less on climbout our
> > just get used to it ??? Any comments from you old pros will be
> > gladly accepted... Steve Bennett Durham NC.
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> > ============================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Boy! This could become an embroiled discussion. My experience was just
the opposite of Lynn's. Initially the horizontal was lowered to help
"carve" around in the turns but we were not happy with the cruise trim. I believe
we measured the flap setting to be 11 +/- degrees for level flight.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ultimately, we moved the horzontal stab to its highest setting, sealed the
horizontal/elevator gap and trimmed for level flight with the flaperons.
We set the ailerons at neutral with the jib then flew to assess the situation.
It took very little up (forward handle) trim from that point
for level flight at 90-95 kts. We picked up speed because we were no longer
dragging the flap, they were acutually a little reflexed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We found that a little more rudder was needed in the turns but overall performance
was improved significantly.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>Classic IV/912, 766 hours as of this morning.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Lynn Matteson <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>> <BR>> On my initial flights, my test
pilot and I moved the horizontal stab <BR>> as low as it would go and drilled
a new hole to accommodate the front <BR>> attaching bolt. I then had
to add a 3" tab to the trim tab to further <BR>> give enough trim control to
the elevator. I have since cut the added <BR>> tab down to 2-3/4" because
it is too sensitive to the electric trim <BR>> control. I'll probably cut
one eighth at a time until it suits me. <BR>> This trim tab runs the full length...about
26"...of the electric trim <BR>> tab. <BR>> <BR>> Lynn
Matteson <BR>> Grass Lake, Michigan <BR>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
<BR>> flying w/400+ hrs <BR>> <BR>> <BR>
> O
=====
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | South Carolina Breakfast club at CUB this Sunday |
The bi-monthly SCBC fly-in is going to Columbia-Owens Downtown airport (CUB) this
weekend. This is also the home of EAA chapter 242. I'm not a member but I get
the impression that it's large, active, well organized club. I'm thinking of
joining despite the fact that it's based 60 miles away. Sure would be nice to
not be the only Kitfox attending...
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132903#132903
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
As it takes me over an hour to tow my plane to the pond, spread the wings,
fuel up, launch and pre flight and another hour to get it back on the
trailer, tied down, defuled, wings folded, towed home and parked in a pretty
small garage I can see where having a place to store the plane ready to go
would be a big asset. If my home were on fresh water instead of salt it
would only take me about ten minutes in and out each time. There would be
no wing folding, tying down or towing. I would also have a different design
of trailer for launching.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> kitfoxmike
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:21 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Folding wings
>
>
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> My preinspection is done when I clean the airplane after most
> flights( I also do a quick looksy before every flight). I
> use a cheap window cleaner to clean the bugs off. I catch
> most problems when doing this. I concider folding the wings
> or unfolding, very much a risk, what I mean by this,
> something could be forgotten, from a distraction. Trailering
> a plane can also cause damage. I understand why some need to
> do it, I just don't wish to. I also know that once I put the
> airplane away, it is in the same condition as it was when I
> left it. That's why I won't go into a community hangar either.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> building
> RV7a
> slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
> "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA
> then you're not flying enough"
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132895#132895
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
My sentiments exactly ! No pole barn but a small garage.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Menezes
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Folding wings
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Sometimes I wish I could leave
the
wings open all the time for the kind of quick getaways you describe,
Mike.
But most times, I'm glad to have the Fox in the pole barn, 20 steps from
my
house where I can tinker with it whenever I want. Also, deploying and
then
refolding the wings each time you fly amounts to "automatic" pre and
post
flight inspections, which you'd do anyway. All considered, I don't see
it as
a "pain" at all, rather it's one of the reasons I'm glad I have a
Kitfox.
Message 13
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The commments about float got me thinking about my own landing profile so this
morning I went up 2000' above pattern altitude and flew a mock approach keeping
the speed glued at 1.3 x stall which for my plane is 52 IAS.
Some observations, sink showed 5-600 on the VSI. Control was excellent, though
attention needed to be paid to the rudder as the ball tended to slide to the right.
Carrying the same methodology to the pattern showed the same thing but I found
myself just a little short of my touch down point. I had carried the turn to
base a little far given the 6kts down the runway. Touch down was with very little
flair required because the attitude at 52 is close to three-point. When I
did flair speed dropped off quickly and the plane planted with no float. I had
to power up to get off the numbers. Roll was under 200'.
Given the tendency for the Kitfox to lose momentum quickly it is natural to carry
a little extra speed for safety margin, but I believe we then start carry a
little extra margin over the original margin. Everyone needs to fly the numbers
they are comfortable but understand what your plane is telling telling you.
AOPA safety figures suggest that there are as many or more accidents cause by carrying
eccess speed into the flair than occur with too little speed.
John Kerr
Trying to become one with my plane, whichever one I happen to be flying at the
moment.
<html><body>
<DIV>The commments about float got me thinking about my own landing profile so
this morning I went up 2000' above pattern altitude and flew a mock approach keeping
the speed glued at 1.3 x stall which for my plane is 52 IAS.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some observations, sink showed 5-600 on the VSI. Control was excellent, though
attention needed to be paid to the rudder as the ball tended to slide to
the right.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Carrying the same methodology to the pattern showed the same thing but I found
myself just a little short of my touch down point. I had carried the
turn to base a little far given the 6kts down the runway. Touch down
was with very little flair required because the attitude at 52 is close to
three-point. When I did flair speed dropped off quickly and the plane planted
with no float. I had to power up to get off the numbers. Roll was
under 200'.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Given the tendency for the Kitfox to lose momentum quickly it is natural to
carry a little extra speed for safety margin, but I believe we then start carry
a little extra margin over the original margin. Everyone needs to fly
the numbers they are comfortable but understand what your plane is telling telling
you.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>AOPA safety figures suggest that there are as many or more accidents cause
by carrying eccess speed into the flair than occur with too little speed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>Trying to become one with my plane, whichever one I happen to be flying at
the moment.</DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 14
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Actual Build Time |
Mike Thought I could get you an answer to your question on build time but I
ran in to the same thing as you. I looked on Kitlog.com and found one
builder but he has not done anything yet so he has no time logged. I also
checked on Expercraft.com and found one but he has not bought the kit yet.
I see you have heard the entire why and why not on the folding wings.
Why is it they do not want to answer your original question as to actual
build time?
Marin Streeter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirtbos
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Actual Build Time
Did a "build time" search with no luck. I would appreciate some input on
the actual build time for the Series 7/Super Sport.
Also, how practical is the folding wing feature? Is it as quick and easy as
stated on the website? It would be nice not to have to pay hangar fees.
Mike Allen
Acton, CA
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| Subject: | Re: Actual Build Time |
Like has been said. It all depends on money, time, and your ability to do mechanical
things. 3 years ago I rebuilt my fox. I built a new right wing, welded
the tail section, refabricated and painted, time was 5 months. I'm building
an rv7(slow build), I started last novenber and I'm fitting the finishing kit,
getting ready to paint, ordering the engine. My thoughts are, go back to line
one.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings |
wife keeps telling my I'm spoiled.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
My thoughts exactly. No need to drag the airplane in with power or force her down
with a slip. All you have to do is slow down and she comes down just fine on
her own. The slower you go, the steeper your angle of descent and the less she's
going to float when you flair. Not to say that I'm all that good at it myself
mind you. It's just what I was taught but everythign I've observed is consistent
with this.
> Carrying the same methodology to the pattern showed the same thing but I found
myself just a little short of my touch down point. I had carried the turn to
base a little far given the 6kts down the runway. Touch down was with very little
flair required because the attitude at 52 is close to three-point. When I
did flair speed dropped off quickly and the plane planted with no float. I had
to power up to get off the numbers. Roll was under 200'.
>
> Given the tendency for the Kitfox to lose momentum quickly it is natural to carry
a little extra speed for safety margin, but I believe we then start carry
a little extra margin over the original margin. Everyone needs to fly the numbers
they are comfortable but understand what your plane is telling telling you.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
You mentioned the centering of the ball. Hummmm. I remember when I was doing
training for my tailwheel and the CFI told me NOT to look at the ball when landing.
So I learned NOT to look at the ball. I center the aircraft to the runway
by eye sight. I also remember putting a mark on the windshield for doing
such a thing. I believe, and I guess my CFI at the time believed that centering
the ball would cause you to come in crooked. Now the speed for landing, when
coming over the approach end of the runway should be about 50 IAS, I agree
with that one. That is if you are going to do a three point(tail wheel), if
you want a nice wheel landing, the speed just as you touch should be no higher
than 55 IAS. For a three point, 50 over the approach end is about right, with
35IAS being indicated as you hit the flair and touch down. That's given my
stall at 38IAS with ground effect being factored in.
Now I do all kinds of landings, I prepare myself for anything. Today there was
plenty of traffic so I held 107kts ground speed until about 1 mile out and then
pulled to full idle and flattened the prop, as soon as I cleared the trees
about 2000ft out I slipped to about 30ft off and then leveled out to slow me to
about 55 then I had to add a little power to stop the decent and made a real
nice short landing on the numbers. To tell you the truth, I don't know what
a text book landing is anymore. I know what to do no matter where I enter the
pattern, 5 mile straight in, to 90 degree(bearing) base to final over the runway.
I can pick up on the speeds needed for a nice landing.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
> I believe, and I guess my CFI at the time believed that centering the ball would
cause you to come in crooked.
Isn't that the definition of a forward slip? I thought that was ok as long as you
straitened the plane out before touch down..
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
You should't be looking at the ball just as you touch down. With that I never
look at the ball when slipping either. Why, it's alway pushed to one side.
I use full rudder when slipping.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
Personally, I wouldn't want to be cross-controlling on a short field final approach,
close to the ground at or near stall speed. Kitfoxes do spin, or so I'm
told. I'm thinking Mike and Luis' techniques may both work but might also be mutually
exclusive.
> I believe, and I guess my CFI at the time believed that centering the ball would
cause you to come in crooked.
Isn't that the definition of a forward slip? I thought that was ok as long as you
straitened the plane out before touch down..
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132924#132924
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
are you saying you should not side slip ?
Plenty of it here in a Kitfox
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7aBw90n9U [/url]
Regards,
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
Heck no. What I'm saying is don't be looking at the ball when you land. You know
the last ten feet before touch down. Look out the window and square the airplane.
Myself, I'm a slipping fool. Both side and straight slips.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132945#132945
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
On Sep 5, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> Personally, I wouldn't want tobe cross-controlling on a short field
> final approach,close to the ground at or near stall speed.
I do. All the time. Even a few yards from the threshold, I violently
put the plane on the side if I feel I have too much speed. The only
time it developed an ill effect is when my tail stalled, not the wings.
The thing is: you do forward slip when you feel you have too much speed
and if not loosing it pronto, you'll float a lot before touching down.
If I am already near stall speed, there is no need to slow down even
more. But, of course, this has to be trained for at a safe altitude
first.
About centering the ball when landing ... I never look at any
instrument. My instructor told me: "Feel the Force, young Skywalker,
feel the Force!" It is the moment the seat of my pants is the only one
to be trusted. Mind you, dear master Yoda, after 350 hours on this
Kitfox, many of my landings are still ugly. Too much speed ... oops!
... stall out of the flare too high ... ooops! But once in a while it's
a nice and smooth one!
... "Ahhhhh! Was it good for you too?" asks Tango, my beloved Kitfox.
You bet! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Folding wings - Was Actual Build Time |
At 09:47 PM 9/4/2007, you wrote:
>I too unfold and fold mine for every flight. It's great! I'd also
>mention draining fuel post-flight as an important consideration.
>There's already alot of weight on the tailwheel with wings folded
>and tanks empty.
I built a special vent system so I wouldn't have to empty the tanks.
It's been working great. Note that I don't trailer with full tanks, just store.
> P.S. Real nice article in Sport Aviation, Guy. Beautiful airplane.
> Can you ID the people in the photo for us?
Thanks. Unfortunately the two pictures of Bob I submitted were not
very good, as they were scans of bad film pictures. I doctored them
as much as I could, but obviously they didn't make the grade. It was
unfortunate, as I had before and after pictures which I thought
really helped make the story. In the group shot are: in addition to
my two kids, my father on the right, then me, then Ken and Stan, a
couple of local RV builders and my ground crew, and then one of Ken's
friends, whose name I don't remember. I couldn't get any local Kitfox
people to help out. Sad.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
Well.. I'm not really talking about my 'technique' so much as just regurgitating
what I remember from my lessons and sharing what I think is working for me so
far. I find these discussions useful in helping me refine things further and
also in helping me really nail down how much of the early training I got in a
172 is really useful with my Kitfox. What makes it all the more interesting is
seeing how much variation there is from pilot to pilot. Im really surprised
that there isnt more consistency.
As for watching the ball on approach.. I wouldnt do that either. I was just suggesting
that, if you find yourself flying crooked on final but youre flying strait
to the runway, then youre probably encountering some cross wind and a forward
slip is appropriate.
> Personally, I wouldn't want to be cross-controlling on a short field final approach,
close to the ground at or near stall speed. Kitfoxes do spin, or so I'm
told. I'm thinking Mike and Luis' techniques may both work but might also be
mutually exclusive.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
Well , I sideslip on nearly every landing to some degree and alot of the time
with 20 degres flaperons . Now on a 172 or 152 you would not want to side slip
with flaps but we talkinga Kitfox.
Very docile and fun to fly.
I will side slip right to the final flare at 10 feet above lading area (sand,snow,water
grass whatever)
AS far as consistency of pilots, I agree alot have less experience that others
and in time they will experience more and more skills.
How bout some videos so that we can all learn from each other ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
talking about cross controlling a fox. Huh! I do it all the time. The only time
mine is flying straight, ball centered, is when at a cruise. I've done flat
turns on take off(use of rudder and opposite aileron), I've done flat turns
over the runway(zig zag) back and forth over the runway 2ft off(use of rudder
and opposite aileron), I've done all kinds of cross control with NO ill effects.
Of course I do watch the ol' speed thing when doing this.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132952#132952
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
In a message dated 9/5/2007 3:35:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
msm_9949@yahoo.com writes:
Personally, I wouldn't want to be cross-controlling on a short field final
approach, close to the ground at or near stall speed. Kitfoxes do spin, or so
I'm told. I'm thinking Mike and Luis' techniques may both work but might also
be mutually exclusive.
I just did 5 take off and landings in a cross wind with the nose pointed
into the wind atleast 10 degrees. Let the plane fly and in ground effect
straiten up and land. Kitfox's spin ??? Anything will spin if the limit is
pressed, but not doing crosswind landings. Are you maybe talking about a ground
loop ??? Steve B 4-912
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
John, You have hit the nail on the head with excess speed.
Seems that alot are afraid to explore the envelope and practice slow flight ?
How aften does Kitfox pilots actually do stalls ? Mine is fully stalled nearly
every landing. :)
> AOPA safety figures suggest that there are as many or more accidents cause by
carrying eccess speed into the flair than occur with too little speed.
>
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
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Others may disagree but I do not think a POH is needed to get your aircraft
inspected and a temporary airworthiness certificate issued. I had two
inspectors from the FAA offices in OK City check me out and they never asked
about a POH. You just need to fill out all the FAA forms and make sure they
are worded exactly the same letter for letter word for word.
Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK
Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls
Flying sense Jan. 06
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwparker
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 POH
I am nearing completion of my Series 7 and am trying to get all the
documentation together for the inspector. I have everything except a POH. I
have talked to Kitfox and they do not have one created yet.
What have other Series 7 builders done to satisfy the POH requirement? Is
there anyone out there that has one I can buy, beg, borrow, or steal?
Thanks,
Dana Parker
Westport, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132867#132867
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The purpose of the test phase is to generate the information for the POH.
You cant print the book before you have written the story.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Series 7 POH
Others may disagree but I do not think a POH is needed to get your aircraft
inspected and a temporary airworthiness certificate issued. I had two
inspectors from the FAA offices in OK City check me out and they never asked
about a POH. You just need to fill out all the FAA forms and make sure they
are worded exactly the same letter for letter word for word.
Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK
Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls
Flying sense Jan. 06
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dwparker
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 POH
I am nearing completion of my Series 7 and am trying to get all the
documentation together for the inspector. I have everything except a POH. I
have talked to Kitfox and they do not have one created yet.
What have other Series 7 builders done to satisfy the POH requirement? Is
there anyone out there that has one I can buy, beg, borrow, or steal?
Thanks,
Dana Parker
Westport, IN
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| Subject: | Re: float revisited |
Dave looks like,Fri night.I will drive down to wing nuts my car with
camping gear.Tim will fly 172 down.stay Fri night.then sat night we will
leave out for home.all depends on weather.may B we will drive down if
weather too bad to fly down.weather dont look good as of now.calling for
rain+thunder storms.but we are still going one way or another..all so we
will have a car to run in..may even take train ride Sat.there.or even
canoe trip.there.sounds like fun weekend..any way got to fly 4 now Steve
Shinabery
dave wrote:
>
> John, You have hit the nail on the head with excess speed.
> Seems that alot are afraid to explore the envelope and practice slow flight ?
>
> How aften does Kitfox pilots actually do stalls ? Mine is fully stalled nearly
every landing. :)
>
>
>
>> AOPA safety figures suggest that there are as many or more accidents cause by
carrying eccess speed into the flair than occur with too little speed.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132955#132955
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Actual Build Time? |
EAA's AeroCrafter CD lists the Kitfox Model IV build time a modest 800 hours.
My DAR built 2 Speedster Kitfoxes with one only 7 months and the second in 4 months.
Needless to say, we didn't see much of him for 4 months.
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| Subject: | Re: Actual Build Time? |
About 1,000 hrs build time for me. I'll admit I had the luxury of having 2
other kitfox builders in my shop at the same time. Seems pretty simple if
you stick to the plans supplied by Kitfox. You can make it as complex or as
simple as you wish.
Kevin C
Series 6/7 Rotax 914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "PMorel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:16 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Actual Build Time?
>
> EAA's AeroCrafter CD lists the Kitfox Model IV build time a modest 800
> hours. My DAR built 2 Speedster Kitfoxes with one only 7 months and the
> second in 4 months. Needless to say, we didn't see much of him for 4
> months.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132997#132997
>
>
>
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Need to replace a gas cap gasket on one of my wing tanks, I went to the
local auto parts store and they have a two types of material in a role one
is cork with a rubber base and the other is rubber based but kinda like hard
card board. The guy also said you could use an old inner tube! Does anyone
have any advise?
Ray
_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft Office Live!
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| Subject: | Actual Build Time |
Mike,
I built a 5 with a series 7 firewall forward. I put about 2500 hours into
it. This is actual build time. It does NOT count head scratchin' time or
investigating different approaches for some things, etc. I am kinda slow,
but it's a hobby! Elapsed time was about 5 years, but I had to take nearly
a year off - sometimes life gets in the way.
I thoroughly enjoyed the experience and have used some of the new skills
learned on other projects. I am looking for another project now. A plane
for my wife??? Hmmmm,,, would that excuse work?
Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirtbos
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Actual Build Time
Did a "build time" search with no luck. I would appreciate some input on
the actual build time for the Series 7/Super Sport.
Also, how practical is the folding wing feature? Is it as quick and easy as
stated on the website? It would be nice not to have to pay hangar fees.
Mike Allen
Acton, CA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=132794#132794
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Rick, I'm not seeing a link there. I just ordered a couple of books from Contact
magazine that are compilations of all their conversion articles in all past
issues. Looks like some good reading. --Scott
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133029#133029
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Still trying to get that signature thing workin.
--------
Scott Denniston
K-7/ no power yet
65% or so complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133030#133030
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| Subject: | Re: Gas Cap Gasket? |
Ray:
Someone on the list told me couple of years ago that a replacement gasket
for a particular model Mercedes auto fit perfectly, and it did. I can't
remember which model it was, but perhaps you could use the Matronics search
engine and find it, and if not, hopefully a list member can provide you with
that information. If not, I'm pretty sure I saved the box my gaskets came
in for future reference, but it would be some twenty miles away where my Fox
is hangared, and not immediately available.
Clem Nichols
Model IV 1200
----- Original Message -----
From: "RAY Gignac" <kitfoxpilot@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Gas Cap Gasket?
>
>
> Need to replace a gas cap gasket on one of my wing tanks, I went to the
> local auto parts store and they have a two types of material in a role one
> is cork with a rubber base and the other is rubber based but kinda like
> hard card board. The guy also said you could use an old inner tube! Does
> anyone have any advise?
>
> Ray
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
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