Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 AM - Re: firewall penetration (Barry West)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: firewall penetration (Harold Flynn)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: firewall penetration and some (Rick)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: SW ontario Flyin Sunday (dave)
5. 06:51 AM - Re: firewall penetration and some (john oakley)
6. 07:29 AM - Re: firewall penetration (Guy Buchanan)
7. 07:29 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Fuel Burn (Guy Buchanan)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Fuel Burn (dave)
9. 08:48 AM - Re: 121.5 ELt termination (Michael Gibbs)
10. 01:57 PM - simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING (Dave G.)
11. 03:16 PM - Re: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING (Ted Palamarek)
12. 04:13 PM - Re: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING (john oakley)
13. 04:45 PM - Re: Firewall penetrations (paul wilson)
14. 06:10 PM - Fly-In Event (Cudnohufsky's)
15. 06:11 PM - Avid Mk-IV project on Barnstormers (dholly)
16. 09:06 PM - West Desert Fly-In (Guy Buchanan)
17. 09:21 PM - Re: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING (Andy Fultz)
18. 09:53 PM - The Kitfox Fly-In (Dan Billingsley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: firewall penetration |
MessageI used the screw together electrical fittings that are available
from any electrical supply company. They have rubber stoppers in them
that can be split if needed to fit around tubes and wires and are
compressed with the outside nut. They also have a jam nut to firmly
attach to the firewall. This is not a good description but go to a
supplier and ask to see the feedthroughs that are used on junction
boxes.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: clemwehner
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: firewall penetration
I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really
dumb, but I can't find an answer in anything I've read.
What is the proper way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing
through the firewall? Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there
a special fitting used?
thanks,
Clem Wehner
KFIV-912
Lawton, OK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: firewall penetration |
You should get FAA AC 43.13-1b Aircraft Inspection and Repair Manual. It's the
aircraft mechanics Bible. Published by Jeppesen. I think I paid about $20.00 For
it. Answered most of my questions when I built my S5. I'm now restoring a J3
cub. Couldn't do it right without this manual.
Barry West <barry@pgtc.com> wrote: I used the screw together electrical
fittings that are available from any electrical supply company. They have rubber
stoppers in them that can be split if needed to fit around tubes and wires
and are compressed with the outside nut. They also have a jam nut to firmly
attach to the firewall. This is not a good description but go to a supplier
and ask to see the feedthroughs that are used on junction boxes.
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: clemwehner
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 5:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: firewall penetration
I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a question that seems really dumb,
but I can't find an answer in anything I've read.
What is the proper way to pass things like wires, hoses, and tubing through the
firewall? Is it through simple rubber grommets, or is there a special fitting
used?
thanks,
Clem Wehner
KFIV-912
Lawton, OK
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
Message 3
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| Subject: | firewall penetration and some |
I think that is a great point Albert. Besides there are always new folks
and knowledge to be had on the ever evolving list. New ideas, products,
and ways of doing things. Why relegate yourself to history alone. To
keep this on the build platform let me add that I evolved into using the
adjustable ball type mounts for control type cables. Very adjustable and
very secure. Depending on amperage requirements I like the computer
connections mentioned earlier if it can be made water resistant,
otherwise cannon plugs give you secure connections, the flexibility to
remove things fairly easily, and kinder trouble shooting access.. Kind
of like pay now or pay later trade off for ease of installation. There
are some real nice plug and play wiring set ups for the panel as well.
One has to weigh cost. Good luck. I envy your position right now.
Building and problems with the promise of flight. Who could ask for
more.
Rick
Model 5 EA-81 turbo CAP 140....may she rest in peace.
9/8/2007 1:24 PM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SW ontario Flyin Sunday |
Harry, I am taking my son today. We will do it again another time.
WX here is 700 broken and should let up here soon. If so I be there 10 to
11 am .
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133570#133570
Message 5
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| Subject: | firewall penetration and some |
Great answer Albert,
I have been on the list for 15 year or more now and I still live to help
the new guys, gee or old like me.
How is you plane going, I have not seen you or family since I left Idaho.
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A Smith
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: firewall penetration and some
I have to speak up here and give my opinion. I was in the shoes of the poor
soul that should "god forgive me" ask the "Beat to death" question. So I did
not ask a lot of questions. Wish I did anyway. Would have saved me a lot.
Here is a hint for those wanting to build and those building that are
lurking in the group. Go ahead and ask. We are not that busy that if it is
asked a 1000 times, we won't answer. I will still answer it, and there are a
lot of good people here that do not mind going over it again.How about
school? New students, same questions. Not a problem. Do not let our
completed projects elevate us to a higher level. So ask, no matter how
simple or complex. Questions keep the mind alive, and the group.
Albert Smith
5TD NSI Turbo, CAP 3blade
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: firewall penetration |
At 03:51 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote:
>I'm installing my 912 in a KF IV and have a
>question that seems really dumb, but I can't
>find an answer in anything I've read.
>
It's funny how people think the hard questions
are really dumb. No such luck this time Clem. If
you want to see a "hot" topic, fire this one up
on the Lancair or AeroElectric list. You'll get
weeks of discussion. This means that if you want
to read about virtually every possible
penetration technique you should do extensive
searching there. www.lancair.net/maillist.html
for Lancair and www.matronics.com/searching/search.html for AeroElectric.
>What is the proper way to pass things like
>wires, hoses, and tubing through the
>firewall? Is it through simple rubber grommets,
>or is there a special fitting used?
As has been stated, the primary concerns are
chafe and fire. You want a penetration that will
allow the items to pass without being cut over
time while not allowing something like a 1600F
flame to pass after 15 minutes. There are also
considerations of convenience, such as putting
bulkhead electrical connectors so everything
firewall forward can be disconnected. (You'll
find these are heavily disparaged by the
reliability set who don't like unnecessary connectors.)
I can't give you a shopping list, as I became
overwhelmed when I tried it during my build. I
did find two items which may be of use to you,
however. The first is
www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html, which is the
only penetration I could find anywhere,
(including mil-spec,) that was tested for fire. I
used at least one of these and would have used
them more extensively if I'd have found them earlier.
The other item is 3M=99 Fire Barrier MP+ STIX .
These are available at contractor supply stores and on-line. It is:
"A synthetic elastomer designed for use as a one
part, intumescent fire resistive putty used to
restore the integrity of fire rated building
construction. Stays pliable, allows easy access
for cable mining at a later date."
I molded this around my existing rubber grommet
penetrations in the hope that it would delay
burning of the grommet and subsequent fire entry.
The specs indicate that when subjected to fire
the putty expands and chars, forming a very high temperature barrier.
My grommet penetrations used standard AN931
rubber grommets covered by Aircraft Spruce
firewall shields.
(www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/firewalls.html)
I then covered the exposed rubber + 1/4" around with the putty.
Good luck and report back when you've decided!
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Fuel Burn |
At 04:44 PM 9/8/2007, you wrote:
>Can anyone tell me what the typical hourly burn should be? I
>understand that this will vary with altitude, rpm and so on but just
>give me an average.
On long trips, leaned to about 1150F EGT, I get about 4.5 gph fuel
plus about 0.7 pph oil. Kicking around the pattern day to day my fuel
burn stays the same, but my oil consumption goes down to about 0.5
pph. (The oil injection pump uses less oil at idle.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Fuel Burn |
Guy,
I find the opposite in oil consumption.
I get about 60 - 65 to 1 in cruise and will be closer to 50-to 1 do in circuits.
The oil pump is metered by throttle position so when wide open i am burning about
7.5 gals/ hours .
I find that my NAVMAN fuel flow is pretty accurate for fuel consumption and for
example Last weekend I was on a x country to a few flyins on floats and I used
about 100 litres in total and about 1.5 litres in oil that would be about
on what i get normally. I have logged 103 hours in My Kitfox alone since May
07 since i changed plugs last.
Back on wheels now and having a blast, put on VG's yesterday on the wings, looking
like a positive improvement so far but will have to do a bit more testing
to confirm what i found in 1 hours last night. I was reluctant to put them
on as My Kitfox flies so well. Will report as i get a few more hours in it.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133582#133582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 121.5 ELt termination |
Kitfox Mike sez:
>That's why I'm going with the portable unit. The same unit a
>mountain climber uses. Much cheaper and it gets put on you. You keep
>the 121.5 ELT to satisfy the regs.
And since they must be activated manually, it's useless if you are
rendered unconscious in an accident. Do you value your life so
little that you are willing to risk that to save a few bucks? If you
rely on the 121.5 MHz ELT for these situations you should be aware
that it will add hours (or more) to the time required for searchers
to reach you, assuming the unit works at all. In the case of my
accident, I would have been dead by the time they found me.
I have a portable Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB)
in the plane also, but I would never rely on that alone. The new
'fox will have a 406 MHz ELT when it is completed.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 10
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| Subject: | simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING |
I've tried several of the irons available locally and the wife's old
Black and Decker. Is there an iron available most everywhere (I'm in
Canada) that will perform within the alotted temp ranges? I've found
that far from 15 deg, most fluctuate almost 60 deg.
Message 11
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| Subject: | simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING |
Dave
Try the Black and Decker model #F63D it seems to work ok once you calibrate
it.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, Ab
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.
Sent: September 9, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING
I've tried several of the irons available locally and the wife's old
Black and Decker. Is there an iron available most everywhere (I'm in
Canada) that will perform within the alotted temp ranges? I've found
that far from 15 deg, most fluctuate almost 60 deg.
Message 12
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| Subject: | simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING |
Ted,
The last wing project I did, was completed using a smaller but more
efficient iron from the hobby industry. I was a black baron digital that
cost about 29 dollars and was good for 3 degrees difference. The larger unit
I have used was modified and bought from stits.
John Oakley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Palamarek
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING
Dave
Try the Black and Decker model #F63D it seems to work ok once you calibrate
it.
Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, Ab
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G.
Sent: September 9, 2007 2:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING
I've tried several of the irons available locally and the wife's old
Black and Decker. Is there an iron available most everywhere (I'm in
Canada) that will perform within the alotted temp ranges? I've found
that far from 15 deg, most fluctuate almost 60 deg.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall penetrations |
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
This link shows one how to do a good penetration. Do a Google search
and find commercially available ones that are easier to use than the
DIY method that Bob shows.
The fundamental purpose of the penetration is to let the cable, wire
etc. pass thru the stainless steel firewall using something that will
not let flames enter the cockpit. Thus the use of stainless steel
penetrations are the norm. They are packed withal sorts of things
like silicone scat material, fiberfrax, high temp silicone RTV, etc.
I have seen HD SS bathroom grab handles, AN fittings, and custom made
SS tubing.
I built some to the gadgets that Binglils shoes in his book. It took
way to much time but now I have them. They are copies of what Cessna
and other TC planes have used for years.
Really the use of any kind of rubber is very bad practice since it
will go poof at the first sign of flames.
Be safe, Paul
Message 14
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All,
It is late notice but wanted to get this to the group, Our local EAA Chapter
439 is sponsoring an Air Show / Fly In event next Saturday at the Iron
Mountain (IMT) Ford Airport. It is coupled with a car show and static
aircraft display. We have 4 aerobatic routines starting at 1:30 PM. Event
starts at 7:00 AM with a pancake breakfast, helicopter rides, biplane rides,
T-6 Rides available all day. Would be fun to see a Kitfox or two show up,
(Mine will be home tucked away in the garage).
Lloyd Cudnohufsky
Iron Mountain Mi.
Kitfox 5 w/ 912
Rebuild Project
Message 15
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| Subject: | Avid Mk-IV project on Barnstormers |
Complete FWB kit plus extras. Please contact off list if interested.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=133667#133667
Message 16
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| Subject: | West Desert Fly-In |
All,
A bunch of Kitfoxes and friends will be congregating at the
West Desert Fly-in south of Salt Lake City this coming weekend. It
looks like fun but of course, the more the merrier. I hope to see you there.
Information is at: www.rmkplanes.com/Flyin.html
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 17
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| Subject: | simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING |
Dave,
I've just gone through that same process and I've not found one yet. I've
tried several from $9.99 up. None seem to fit the bill. I'm using one a
friend got on sale from Sears for $5.99. I set it for the max temp I need
at the time and then iron several times.
Andy Fultz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave G.
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 3:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: simple question, hard answer IRON FOR SHRINKING
I've tried several of the irons available locally and the wife's old
Black and Decker. Is there an iron available most everywhere (I'm in
Canada) that will perform within the alotted temp ranges? I've found
that far from 15 deg, most fluctuate almost 60 deg.
Message 18
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| Subject: | The Kitfox Fly-In |
The Fly in was a great time and all enjoyed themselves. I was able to get a few
pictures and thought some may enjoy seeing them. Click on the link below.
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
http://www.azshowersolutions.com/07FlyIn.html
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