Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:16 AM - Re: Down wind Float TO (Bob)
2. 03:40 AM - Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest (Bob)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: czech floats (Paul Seehafer)
4. 02:36 PM - Re: aquamaster floats ??? (akflyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Down wind Float TO |
Sure. On a twisty river in mountains.
If leaving a city, so you're headed away from the buildings.
Bob
Vixen part-built
Damascus, Md
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| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel bolt went off.... and the rest |
Michel -
Sorry to hear that you need to repair your KF. It looks like the hole has taken
a beating and I'm wondering if the bolt/nut was tight.
Find the remaining head or other portion of the bolt and show it to a metallurgist.
He can tell very easily if the bolt was involved. For example, did th ebolt
have a flaw, break in overload, had it cracked long before the failure, or
did it break only after numerous cycles of use (as if loose)?
Bob
A&P, Aero Eng
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: czech floats |
Hey gang,
I want to briefly reply to all of your comments about floats, but am on a
time crunch getting ready for a week plus float plane trip to northwest
ontario in a Beech 18 with two of my buddies. But when I return, I would be
happy to respond to any of the float questions Noel, Michael, and Joe have
asked me to explain further. So remind me in about a week and a half.
Briefly;
John; Thanks for the compliment about what I wrote. Fwiw I do write
articles for magazines - check out EAA's August 2006 Sport Pilot for an
article I wrote on LSA seaplanes and converting one to floats.
Noel; Yes, there are a lot of times a downwind takeoff and landing are
needed or at least preferred. I can explain further later.
Michael; I'd be happy to give you some good tips on the aerocet float
install on your airplane. I think I've learned a lot about what to do and
not do with these floats. Would love to see you be able to successfully
operate yours. Plus, I can put you in contact with others who have info to
share on the aerocet 1100 as well. We've developed a good communications
amongst a small group of us aerocet 1100 float flyers, and sharing info
between us has proven extremely valuable.
Greg and everybody else; I will be happy to explain more about my new
floats to you when I return. To make a long story short, they will be a
float specifically designed for airplanes like we (me included) like to fly.
So having flown Avids and Kitfoxes (as well as other G.A. aircraft) since
the mid 80's on floats, I know what we need, and what we don't need. And as
I said before, as far as I'm concerned we currently have no good choices out
there (sorry, just my opinion..). But my float will change that. It has
been in development for over a year now, but I'm not just eyeball
engineering things here. I sought out true experts to help me. Running
EAA's AirVenture Seaplane Base, and being around the seaplane crowd for a
quarter century has provided me with many contacts that have an incredible
amount of float operating and building experience, and they were willing to
share their knowledge because we're friends. Combining that expert help
along with my seaplane flying background, and my frustration over not having
a good float choice, I'm convinced will provide guys like us with a
marvelous amphib float. Oh yeah, and I promised myself I'd do all I can to
make it reasonably priced. I remember not too long ago when I had to scrimp
and save to buy my first set of inexpensive floats. So I want to make sure
my float is a real value, and is as affordable as I can make it without
sacrificing quality. Hopefully this will help you all to understand better
where I'm coming from, and why I'm passionate about producing a great float
for our airplanes. (see the pic attached if you want an approximate idea
what my new floats will look like. Will be very similar to that... but
better!)
Talk to you all in about a week and a half!
Paul Seehafer
Kitfox IV 912ul amphib
Central Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "john oakley" <john@leptron.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: czech floats
>
> Paul,
> That is the greatest report on floats I have seen. I am thinking you need
> to
> quit your job and write for a magazine. :-) Honestly that is what many of
> us
> want to hear, One persons experience and feelings. I now believe you are
> capable of making a great set of floats. I along with many others are
> waiting for more info on your system. I learned from you about how many
> compartments there need to be, also the storage area's is a must, I had
> forgotten the aerocet had them. I actually put my kids in the floats with
> their heads sticking out and dressed like elfs, me as santa.( they will
> never forgive me)
> Any picture of the floats you want to share.
>
> Again, thanks
> John Oakley
> Fox 4 speedster long and short
> 912 ul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Seehafer
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:22 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: czech floats
>
> Greg,
>
> I have 25 years of float flying experience, with a total of 2200 hrs in
> seaplanes. 1300 hours of that seaplane time has been in various light
> sport
>
> type aircraft. I have a bit more than 30 hours in an amphibious Czech
> float
>
> equipped Rans S-7 with a Rotax 100 hp 912s for power. Aircraft empty
> weight
>
> on wheels around 670 lbs, and right close to 900 on floats. The floats are
> the 4 wheel option 1150/1200a amphibs.
>
> The floats work, but lack forward floatation, as well as total floatation
> for the Rans (note how low the spreader bars are to the water in the
> attached picture. Also, the rear seat passenger weight is actually is
> helping keep the front of the floats up. Otherwise the bows would be
> plowing water over the top when idling). The landing gear has no
> suspension, and while the main gear does have a down lock, the nosegears
> are
>
> held down purely by hydraulic pressure, consequently causing concerns
> about
> gear collapse in the case of hydraulic failure, The hydraulic cyls also
> tend
>
> to leak when sitting with the weight of the airplane on them. The other
> problem with the floats is that they are approx 15 1/2 ft in length, and
> that causes you not to be able to rotate well without dragging the heels
> (which will consequently also keep you from leaving the water). This a a
> common problem with many older float designs as well. While a long float
> offers a nice ride and lots of good tracking and stability, they limit
> your
> ability to take off short because you can't rotate into a steep attitude.
> For those reasons I personally would always choose a short float over a
> long
>
> one if the floatation was similar. Oh yeah, a Rans S-7 is longer than my
> Kitfox IV by almost 5 ft, so the Kitfox would really suffer from not being
> able to rotate due to the float being so long for the airplane. The Czech
> floats on this Rans also only have 2 watertight compartments / pump outs.
> That would never pass muster for a certified float, as it puts the
> airplane
> at risk of capsizing if ever one compartment were to leak and fill with
> water. The good news there is that the later Czech floats are known for
> not
>
> leaking much water. But if you ever hit an underwater obstruction and
> poke
> a hole in your float, you have little or no reserve buoyancy with 50% of
> one
>
> float only left watertight.
>
> Another thing I don't like about the Czech floats is they are
> hydrodynamically very draggy. Example, last time I flew this Rans I was
> doing a downwind takeoff in a 10 mph wind and no matter what I did I
> couldn't get enough forward water speed to lift off. I tried everything,
> but finally stopped and turned into the wind and took off no problem.
> That
> whole issue is caused by too much reveted skin area causing excess water
> drag and limiting the ability to accelerate on the step. And being that I
> fly my Aerocet equipped Kitfox also, I guess I am spoiled as downwind
> takeoffs are never a problem, even though I have 20 hp less than the Rans,
> and less wing area. The Aerocets having a smooth fluted bottom have let
> me
> acclerate easily for a takeoff at gross weight in a 25+ mph downwind
> before
> (ps - don't try this at home - I've been flying floats for a lot of
> years...
>
> Go into the wind like our flight instructors tell us to). I also don't
> like
>
> the fact that there are no storage areas in the czech floats.
>
> Ok, so what do I like about the Czech floats? Ground handling is good,
> and
> brakes work pretty good or an amphib. Water rudders are sufficiently
> sized,
> and the floats will get you off the water relatively quick as they use a
> pretty flat bottom. Of course, since nothing is ever free, rough water is
> not the Czech floats forte.
>
> I currently am flying my Kitfox 912ul Model IV on Aerocet 1100 amphibs. It
> weighs 630 lbs on wheels and 776 on amphibs. Those floats too have a lot
> of
> issues, with underfloatation being the biggest problem, and a weak landing
> gear second. But other than that it is hands down the best handling float
> you will ever fly (I can do a 600-800 foot circular one float takeoff!
> Yeah, they handle that good...)
>
> Because I don't think we have a decent choice out there currently for an
> amphib float for our planes, I designed my own with all the features I
> wanted, and felt we need. I am in final design stages and will be going
> into production soon (has been a MUCH bigger job than I ever expected. Oh
> well, all good things take time they say...). I expect to have floats
> available 1st qtr of 2008. Pricing is targeted to compete with the Czech
> floats. And it will be an attractive float with a real landing gear and
> nice
>
> storage (read as "Not anything weird"). I will let the group know here
> as
> I progress with production. The Kitfox is one of my favorite airplanes,
> so
> I hope to set up a Kitfox as one of the first airplanes on my new floats.
>
> Paul Seehafer
>
> ps - did those Avid amphibs not work out for your?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregory Cronin" <greg@case-assembly.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 10:46 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: czech floats
>
>
>> <greg@case-assembly.com>
>>
>> Is anyone here flying the Czech floats currently?
>>
>> If so please let us all know what you think.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> gc
>>
>> 1:53 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: aquamaster floats ??? |
here are a few pics of the floats.. I have never seen them before..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
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