Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: More starting problems ()
2. 05:07 AM - Re: Ballast for flight testing (Barry West)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox NIRVANA (Guy Buchanan)
4. 09:57 AM - Photos of "dangerous" airports (Rexinator)
5. 10:37 AM - Update (Lowell Fitt)
6. 12:24 PM - Re: Update (Randy Daughenbaugh)
7. 12:53 PM - Re: Ballast for flight testing (Tom Jones)
8. 01:19 PM - Re: Update (Michel Verheughe)
9. 02:01 PM - Operating costs? (Andrew Lawrence)
10. 02:20 PM - Re: Update (mic thiessen)
11. 03:43 PM - Re: Operating costs? (wingnut)
12. 04:02 PM - Re: Operating costs? (Mnflyer)
13. 04:05 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Andrew Lawrence)
14. 04:31 PM - Kitfox near Orlando? (Joel)
15. 04:46 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Andrew Lawrence)
16. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Dennis Golden)
17. 05:14 PM - Re: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 (dave)
18. 05:16 PM - Re: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 (dave)
19. 05:23 PM - Wanted - Rotax 912UL (Paul Morel)
20. 05:27 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Frank Miles)
21. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (kirk hull)
22. 05:53 PM - Re: Wanted - Rotax 912UL (SUE MICHAELS)
23. 05:54 PM - CopperState Airshow (Rexinator)
24. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Jim Burke)
25. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Noel Loveys)
26. 06:47 PM - Re: Update (Fred Shiple)
27. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Andrew Lawrence)
28. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Andrew Lawrence)
29. 07:05 PM - Operating costs? (fox5flyer)
30. 07:17 PM - Re: Operating costs? (Rexster)
31. 07:18 PM - Re: Re: Operating costs? (Marco Menezes)
32. 08:15 PM - Re: Operating costs? (Guy Buchanan)
33. 09:27 PM - Re: Operating costs? (wingnut)
34. 11:11 PM - Re: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 (Marin Streeter)
35. 11:28 PM - Re: CopperState Airshow (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: More starting problems |
Also might try pushing your throttle full open right after you pull your mixture
back. Leon Morris/classic 4/60%/ Flower Mound,TX
---- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Luis-
> What I normally do on my Jabiru engine, (with only one carb to worry
> about) is to shut off the main fuel valve when I'm about 30 seconds
> away from shutting the engine down, like for parking after a landing
> and taxi, etc., then when the engine is shut down, the fuel level in
> the bowl is reduced, and a subsequent hot start is immediate.
> Somebody gave me this tip, and it works perfectly. Just something you
> might try.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/420+ hrs
> do not archive
>
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 8:21 AM, wingnut wrote:
>
> >
> > Is this an indication that my motor is getting too hot? It was only
> > one landing after a long descent so I wouldn't have thought that it
> > was too hot.
> >
> > Can you tell me more about your fuel primer pump? I've noticed you
> > mentioning your fuel primer before but I figured you where talking
> > about a simple plunger style manual pump. Does the primer pump run
> > all the time?
> >
> >
> >> I agree to the heat soak problem. When my fox started doing that I
> >> did two things, one I opened the oil access door any time I landed
> >> knowing I was going to leave. 2 I installed an electric fuel
> >> "primer" pump under my seat. I have had no problems with it since.
> >
> >
> > --------
> > Luis Rodriguez
> > Model IV 1200
> > Rotax 912UL
> > Flying Weekly
> > Laurens, SC (34A)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Ballast for flight testing |
Sandbags
Barry West
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Ballast for flight testing
>
> I'm looking for ideas on what to use for ballast and how to secure it in
> the airplane. I am flight testing my kitfox Classic 4. the engine is a
> rotax 503. With full fuel and myself, weight is 840 pounds. I want to
> start increasing the weight a little at a time.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV, Phase one
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140265#140265
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox NIRVANA |
At 08:56 PM 10/16/2007, you wrote:
>I am already lobying for one more fly-in at least a 10th I say.
You'll have lots of help if you want it.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Photos of "dangerous" airports |
http://get-humor.com/dangerous_airports/
Maybe not dangerous for Kitfoxes!!
Do Not Archive
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
Message 5
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List,
Well, I guess it is time for some sort of update. Kay had the pins removed
from her thumb yesterday. About a week before the appt. she was told to take
a pain pill before the appointment and you can imagine the thoughts that
generated in her mind. She took a tranquilizer and a Percocet and didn't
feel a thing, but then she can't remember much either, so who knows what she
really felt. She is no longer in a cast so she can now shower without the
clumsy moisture barrier on her right hand.
I have been cleared to remove the Ninja Turtle costume for showers only, but
look forward to the next three weeks passage when I can take it off for
sleep. I suspect I will still be wearing it during the day until late
November. I haven't been wearing the boot on my right ankle for the past
week or so - still swelling there but no significant discomfort. Will start
some physical therapy tomorrow and I must say have been totally pleased with
the health insurance coverage - seamless.
We are both active now and both able to drive. It is amazing the muscle
tone that can be lost in so short a time. After only three weeks, climbing
stairs felt like the common nightmare when you are trying to run toward or
away from something and it feels like you legs are in slow motion.
Airplanes? No decisions yet. I am sure that if an opportunity came up, I
would be doing some serious thinking, but as of now I am getting to rather
enjoy this no pressure, lazy life style. I actually said to Kay yesterday
that I am not really looking forward to being fully functional, because
rejoining the real world has it's pressures - you get used to it when you
are in the middle of it, but looking from the outside you can see them.
I guess the most significant part of this whole experience is seeing first
hand and very closely the compassion and service that people are capable of
giving. That has been an awesome experience and we both feel so indebted to
so many. It is not possible to thanke everyone personally as there are
simply too many and the fear is real that someone would be omitted. I am
grateful for the support of the list members and embarrassed for the times I
sparred with some of you. I wish sincerely that I could undo all that.
Again I am humbled by the kindness that have been shown to Kay and me.
Thank you all.
Lowell
Message 6
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Thanks you for the update Lowell. Keep up the good progress. It is a job
in itself.
Randy
Do not archive
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Update
List,
Well, I guess it is time for some sort of update. Kay had the pins removed
from her thumb yesterday. About a week before the appt. she was told to take
a pain pill before the appointment and you can imagine the thoughts that
generated in her mind. She took a tranquilizer and a Percocet and didn't
feel a thing, but then she can't remember much either, so who knows what she
really felt. She is no longer in a cast so she can now shower without the
clumsy moisture barrier on her right hand.
I have been cleared to remove the Ninja Turtle costume for showers only, but
look forward to the next three weeks passage when I can take it off for
sleep. I suspect I will still be wearing it during the day until late
November. I haven't been wearing the boot on my right ankle for the past
week or so - still swelling there but no significant discomfort. Will start
some physical therapy tomorrow and I must say have been totally pleased with
the health insurance coverage - seamless.
We are both active now and both able to drive. It is amazing the muscle
tone that can be lost in so short a time. After only three weeks, climbing
stairs felt like the common nightmare when you are trying to run toward or
away from something and it feels like you legs are in slow motion.
Airplanes? No decisions yet. I am sure that if an opportunity came up, I
would be doing some serious thinking, but as of now I am getting to rather
enjoy this no pressure, lazy life style. I actually said to Kay yesterday
that I am not really looking forward to being fully functional, because
rejoining the real world has it's pressures - you get used to it when you
are in the middle of it, but looking from the outside you can see them.
I guess the most significant part of this whole experience is seeing first
hand and very closely the compassion and service that people are capable of
giving. That has been an awesome experience and we both feel so indebted to
so many. It is not possible to thanke everyone personally as there are
simply too many and the fear is real that someone would be omitted. I am
grateful for the support of the list members and embarrassed for the times I
sparred with some of you. I wish sincerely that I could undo all that.
Again I am humbled by the kindness that have been shown to Kay and me.
Thank you all.
Lowell
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ballast for flight testing |
Okay, thanks all for the ideas everyone! I have a duffel bag. I'll probably get
some sand and some bags and some duck tape.
I don't know if the little 503 will really get to the 1050 gross weight skystar
advertised. The heaviest I have flown it so far is about 850 pounds. It was
a warm day and rate of climb was about 500 feet/minute. The weather is much
cooler now. I'll increase the weight a little at a time.
The CG for my flight tests so far has been near the froward limit. I am interested
to see how moving the CG back affects the handling too.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140478#140478
Message 8
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Thanks for keeping us updated, Lowell. You know we care for you and
Kay. Chin up, friend, and maybe one day you'll regret your Ninja Turtle
costume that must create awe among the kids on the block. :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Operating costs? |
Hey guys, still looking into purchasing a Kitfox II. I was just wondering if any
of you can give me an idea of the operating/maintanance costs per year. Not
fuel, of course, but just a rough estimate of other costs, assuming no rebuilds,
or no major damage.
Andrew
Message 10
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Thanks for the update Lowell.
Though we have never met it is so good to hear your positive out look and
new appreciation for life. You are man of true character and one day I hope
we can meet and I can thank-you in person for your good insight on Kitfox's
and life in general. Thanks again for all you do.
Mic Thiessen
Lethbridge, Alberta
FoxIV speedster
>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Update
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:31:37 -0700
>
>
>List,
>
>Well, I guess it is time for some sort of update. Kay had the pins removed
>from her thumb yesterday. About a week before the appt. she was told to
>take a pain pill before the appointment and you can imagine the thoughts
>that generated in her mind. She took a tranquilizer and a Percocet and
>didn't feel a thing, but then she can't remember much either, so who knows
>what she really felt. She is no longer in a cast so she can now shower
>without the clumsy moisture barrier on her right hand.
>
>I have been cleared to remove the Ninja Turtle costume for showers only,
>but look forward to the next three weeks passage when I can take it off for
>sleep. I suspect I will still be wearing it during the day until late
>November. I haven't been wearing the boot on my right ankle for the past
>week or so - still swelling there but no significant discomfort. Will
>start some physical therapy tomorrow and I must say have been totally
>pleased with the health insurance coverage - seamless.
>
>We are both active now and both able to drive. It is amazing the muscle
>tone that can be lost in so short a time. After only three weeks, climbing
>stairs felt like the common nightmare when you are trying to run toward or
>away from something and it feels like you legs are in slow motion.
>
>Airplanes? No decisions yet. I am sure that if an opportunity came up, I
>would be doing some serious thinking, but as of now I am getting to rather
>enjoy this no pressure, lazy life style. I actually said to Kay yesterday
>that I am not really looking forward to being fully functional, because
>rejoining the real world has it's pressures - you get used to it when you
>are in the middle of it, but looking from the outside you can see them.
>
>I guess the most significant part of this whole experience is seeing first
>hand and very closely the compassion and service that people are capable of
>giving. That has been an awesome experience and we both feel so indebted
>to so many. It is not possible to thanke everyone personally as there are
>simply too many and the fear is real that someone would be omitted. I am
>grateful for the support of the list members and embarrassed for the times
>I sparred with some of you. I wish sincerely that I could undo all that.
>Again I am humbled by the kindness that have been shown to Kay and me.
>
>Thank you all.
>
>Lowell
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Former Police Officer Paul Gillespies TAKE BACK THE INTERNET tips and
tricks, watch the video now http://safety.sympatico.msn.ca/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you enough
of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected expenses. But, since
you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the 18 months
that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one condition inspection.
I have to pay for the condition inspection because, not being the builder, I
can't do it myself.
That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to inspect
and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I had not had that
advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an A&P for all the little
nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane (more often I believe
with all but the most exceptional experimentals). To list a few, I've had
to replace the fuel lines, replace the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings
and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental
airplanes mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If
you're not planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is
if you find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Hi Andrew, even if your not the builder of the aircraft there are many maintenance
things that are allowed by the FAA if you are the owner of the aircraft.
Post subject: Preventive Maintenance thats allowed ** Reply with quote
This is from FAA site read and note there are requirements that need to be met
to do these things.
c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following work,
provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.
(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.
(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural items
such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of
structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of small
fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the balloon
manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.
(8 Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group
surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing
gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure
or operating system is not required.
(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly
of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such
coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.
(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or
balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any
primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system or
affect the primary structure of the aircraft.
(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings,
and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere
with proper air flow.
(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure
or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.
(14) Replacing safety belts.
(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft,
not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.
16 Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.
(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.
(1icon_cool.gif Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation
is involved.
(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection
of flight controls.
(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.
(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.
(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.
(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the balloon
manufacturer's instructions.
26 Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to
operations.
(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket
or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate data
and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and
installation.
(2icon_cool.gif The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter
of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made a
part of the aircraft type certificiate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the
aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation
of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of
the existing tank filler opening.
(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.
(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified
as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or
supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive
maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:
(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued
under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected
aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft
(1) issued by a school approved under 147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued
by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft
that has a special training program approved under 21.24 of this subchapter;
or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator;
and
(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions
contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program
approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.
(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation
and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect
the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding
automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance
measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily
and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided.
Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed
in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.
(32) Updating self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted Air Traffic Control
(ATC) navigational software data bases (excluding those of automatic flight
control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment
(DME)) provided no disassembly of the unit is required and pertinent instructions
are provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, an operational check
must be performed in accordance with applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.
(Secs. 313, 601 through 610, and 1102, Federal Aviation Act of 1958 as amended
(49 U.S.C. 1354, 1421 through 1430 and 1502); (49 U.S.C. 106(g) (Revised Pub.
L. 97449, Jan. 21, 1983); and 14 CFR 11.45)
[Doc. No. 1993, 29 FR 5451, Apr. 23, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 4314, 37 FR 14291,
June 19, 1972; Amdt. 4323, 47 FR 41086, Sept. 16, 1982; Amdt. 4324, 49 FR 44602,
Nov. 7, 1984; Amdt. 4325, 51 FR 40703, Nov. 7, 1986; Amdt. 4327, 52 FR 17277,
May 6, 1987; Amdt. 4334, 57 FR 41369, Sept. 9, 1992; Amdt. 4336, 61 FR 19501,
May 1, 1996]
Appendix B to Part 43Recording of Major Repairs and Major Alterations
As for operating cost I did a spreadsheet on engine operation with a Rotax 582
and those costs are approx. $24.50 per hour figuring $3.00 per gal for gas. this
includes overhaul at 300 hrs. I have not figured in annuals and airframe maint.
Hope this helps some.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140522#140522
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I was missing.
I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work I needed on the
plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at it. He also said
he could do the condition inspections, and even motor rebuild come time. He
has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about them.
Thanks again,
ANdrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you enough
of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected expenses. But,
since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the 18 months
that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one condition inspection.
I have to pay for the condition inspection because, not being the builder, I
can't do it myself.
>
>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to inspect
and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I had not had that
advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an A&P for all the little
nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane (more often I believe
with all but the most exceptional experimentals). To list a few, I've had
to replace the fuel lines, replace the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings
and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental
airplanes mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If
you're not planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this
is if you find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
>
>--------
>Luis Rodriguez
>Model IV 1200
>Rotax 912UL
>Flying Weekly
>Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Kitfox near Orlando? |
I'll be on vacation the week of October 21, staying in Clermont FL and am hoping
to find a Kitfoxer in the area while there.
--------
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140527#140527
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Wow! Lots of good info there. Thank you very much.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: Mnflyer <gbsb2002@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 7:00 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>Hi Andrew, even if your not the builder of the aircraft there are many maintenance
things that are allowed by the FAA if you are the owner of the aircraft.
>
> Post subject: Preventive Maintenance thats allowed ** Reply with quote
>This is from FAA site read and note there are requirements that need to be met
to do these things.
>
>
>c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following
work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
>
>(1) Removal, installation, and repair of landing gear tires.
>
>(2) Replacing elastic shock absorber cords on landing gear.
>
>(3) Servicing landing gear shock struts by adding oil, air, or both.
>
>(4) Servicing landing gear wheel bearings, such as cleaning and greasing.
>
>(5) Replacing defective safety wiring or cotter keys.
>
>(6) Lubrication not requiring disassembly other than removal of nonstructural
items such as cover plates, cowlings, and fairings.
>
>(7) Making simple fabric patches not requiring rib stitching or the removal of
structural parts or control surfaces. In the case of balloons, the making of
small fabric repairs to envelopes (as defined in, and in accordance with, the
balloon manufacturers' instructions) not requiring load tape repair or replacement.
>
>(8 Replenishing hydraulic fluid in the hydraulic reservoir.
>
>(9) Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group
surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing
gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary
structure or operating system is not required.
>
>(10) Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly
of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such
coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.
>
>(11) Repairing upholstery and decorative furnishings of the cabin, cockpit, or
balloon basket interior when the repairing does not require disassembly of any
primary structure or operating system or interfere with an operating system
or affect the primary structure of the aircraft.
>
>(12) Making small simple repairs to fairings, nonstructural cover plates, cowlings,
and small patches and reinforcements not changing the contour so as to interfere
with proper air flow.
>
>(13) Replacing side windows where that work does not interfere with the structure
or any operating system such as controls, electrical equipment, etc.
>
>(14) Replacing safety belts.
>
>(15) Replacing seats or seat parts with replacement parts approved for the aircraft,
not involving disassembly of any primary structure or operating system.
>
>16 Trouble shooting and repairing broken circuits in landing light wiring circuits.
>
>(17) Replacing bulbs, reflectors, and lenses of position and landing lights.
>
>(1icon_cool.gif Replacing wheels and skis where no weight and balance computation
is involved.
>
>(19) Replacing any cowling not requiring removal of the propeller or disconnection
of flight controls.
>
>(20) Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance.
>
>(21) Replacing any hose connection except hydraulic connections.
>
>(22) Replacing prefabricated fuel lines.
>
>(23) Cleaning or replacing fuel and oil strainers or filter elements.
>
>(24) Replacing and servicing batteries.
>
>(25) Cleaning of balloon burner pilot and main nozzles in accordance with the
balloon manufacturer's instructions.
>
>26 Replacement or adjustment of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to
operations.
>
>(27) The interchange of balloon baskets and burners on envelopes when the basket
or burner is designated as interchangeable in the balloon type certificate
data and the baskets and burners are specifically designed for quick removal and
installation.
>
>(2icon_cool.gif The installations of anti-misfueling devices to reduce the diameter
of fuel tank filler openings provided the specific device has been made
a part of the aircraft type certificiate data by the aircraft manufacturer, the
aircraft manufacturer has provided FAA-approved instructions for installation
of the specific device, and installation does not involve the disassembly of
the existing tank filler opening.
>
>(29) Removing, checking, and replacing magnetic chip detectors.
>
>(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified
as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or
supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive
maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:
>
>(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued
under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected
aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft
(1) issued by a school approved under 147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued
by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft
that has a special training program approved under 21.24 of this subchapter;
or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator;
and
>
>(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions
contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program
approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.
>
>(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation
and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect
the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding
automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance
measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be designed to be readily
and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided.
Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed
in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.
>
>(32) Updating self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted Air Traffic Control
(ATC) navigational software data bases (excluding those of automatic flight
control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment
(DME)) provided no disassembly of the unit is required and pertinent instructions
are provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, an operational check
must be performed in accordance with applicable sections of part 91 of this
chapter.
>
>(Secs. 313, 601 through 610, and 1102, Federal Aviation Act of 1958 as amended
(49 U.S.C. 1354, 1421 through 1430 and 1502); (49 U.S.C. 106(g) (Revised Pub.
L. 97449, Jan. 21, 1983); and 14 CFR 11.45)
>
>[Doc. No. 1993, 29 FR 5451, Apr. 23, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 4314, 37 FR 14291,
June 19, 1972; Amdt. 4323, 47 FR 41086, Sept. 16, 1982; Amdt. 4324, 49 FR
44602, Nov. 7, 1984; Amdt. 4325, 51 FR 40703, Nov. 7, 1986; Amdt. 4327, 52 FR
17277, May 6, 1987; Amdt. 4334, 57 FR 41369, Sept. 9, 1992; Amdt. 4336, 61 FR
19501, May 1, 1996]
>Appendix B to Part 43Recording of Major Repairs and Major Alterations
>
>As for operating cost I did a spreadsheet on engine operation with a Rotax 582
and those costs are approx. $24.50 per hour figuring $3.00 per gal for gas. this
includes overhaul at 300 hrs. I have not figured in annuals and airframe maint.
>Hope this helps some.
>
>--------
>GB
>MNFlyer
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140522#140522
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Andrew Lawrence wrote:
>
> Wow! Lots of good info there. Thank you very much.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mnflyer <gbsb2002@yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Oct 17, 2007 7:00 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>
>>
>> Hi Andrew, even if your not the builder of the aircraft there are many maintenance
things that are allowed by the FAA if you are the owner of the aircraft.
>>
>> Post subject: Preventive Maintenance thats allowed ** Reply with quote
>> This is from FAA site read and note there are requirements that need to be met
to do these things.
>>
>>
>> c) Preventive maintenance. Preventive maintenance is limited to the following
work, provided it does not involve complex assembly operations:
Correct me if I am wrong, but you this only applies to certificated
aircraft. Anyone can work on an experimental and an A&P is required for
the inspections (and doesn't require an IA).
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 |
PROP for sale IVO Medium .......... Next message will be GSC pricing.
Ok here is the Update on the IVO Medium that is slightly used( about 1 or 2 hours)
This is the message i got on it .
> It's a 70 inch. Not a 72 in.
> The scratches are on one blade only and are purely cosmetic...therr are three
of them and they are about 1/8" long and about 1/18" apart.
Price is 700$ CDN or US they are close to the same now and about 180 $ saving
over a new one.
New prop pricing as Follows.;
The new IVO Prop Prices are as follows:
(Quick Adjust hub)
U/L 2 BLADE any length QAH 380.00 860 with electrics
UL 3 BLADE QAH 520.00 1000 with
electrics
retro kit 580 if you buy outright After .........
MED 2 BLADE QAH 700.00 w/electric 1780
MED 3 BLADE QAH 890.00 w/electric 1970
retro kit 1220 if you buy outright After .........
MAGNUM 2 BLADE QAH 860.00 w/electric
2100
MAGNUM 3 BLADE QAH 1100.00 w/electric 2340
retro 1400 if you buy outright After .........
SPACER BLOCKS
U/L 5.00 ea
MED 6.00 ea
MAG 7.00 ea
Above prices are both Canadian and US. Both at PAR now
Freight is extra.
Cost for delivery to Canada is around $60.00 as IVO will only ship via AIR UPS.
Freight to USA is around 35.00 if shipped via air and 25.. if by ground
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140532#140532
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 |
GSC blades
68" are $155 each
$185 each with leading edge (black urethane) < highly recommended.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140534#140534
Message 19
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| Subject: | Wanted - Rotax 912UL |
I'm at the stage of my Speedster project where I should be thinking
about installing a Rotax 912 engine. Hope someone might have a new one
hidden away that is willing to sell. A used 912 is an option but prefer
new.
Paul Morel
Speedster IV
Locust Grove, GA
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
A couple of smart aleck thoughts about operating expenses; if you are
concerned about the costs you shouldn't be flying. Not that you have to be
rich to fly, although it would help, but it will always cost more than you
think it should and if you have the time to calculate what they are, you
have way to much time on your hands. We fly because we can't help ourselves
not because it's cost effective.
Frank Miles
K-III w/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you
enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected expenses.
But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the
18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one condition
inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection because, not being
the builder, I can't do it myself.
That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I had
not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an A&P for
all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane
(more often I believe with all but the most exceptional experimentals). To
list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, replace the gascolator,
repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing
edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes mitigate cost by doing
these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not planning on building your
airplane, the only way you can do this is if you find an A&P that is willing
to sign off on your work. This is not trivial and if you can't find this
then your ownership costs will be much higher (unless you intend to do the
work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
9:38 AM
9:38 AM
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
If god had wanted man to fly he would have given us more money
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Miles
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:27 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
<f.miles.tcp.833@clearwire.net>
A couple of smart aleck thoughts about operating expenses; if you are
concerned about the costs you shouldn't be flying. Not that you have to be
rich to fly, although it would help, but it will always cost more than you
think it should and if you have the time to calculate what they are, you
have way to much time on your hands. We fly because we can't help ourselves
not because it's cost effective.
Frank Miles
K-III w/582
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 3:43 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you
enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected expenses.
But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the
18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one condition
inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection because, not being
the builder, I can't do it myself.
That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I had
not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an A&P for
all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane
(more often I believe with all but the most exceptional experimentals). To
list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, replace the gascolator,
repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing
edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes mitigate cost by doing
these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not planning on building your
airplane, the only way you can do this is if you find an A&P that is willing
to sign off on your work. This is not trivial and if you can't find this
then your ownership costs will be much higher (unless you intend to do the
work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
9:38 AM
9:38 AM
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wanted - Rotax 912UL |
If you look back a little you will find my new 912 uls for sale on matronics.
wrote: I'm at the stage of my Speedster project where I should be thinking
about installing a Rotax 912 engine. Hope someone might have a new one
hidden away that is willing to sell. A used 912 is an option but prefer new.
Paul Morel
Speedster IV
Locust Grove, GA
Message 23
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| Subject: | CopperState Airshow |
Anyone going? What day?
I'm planning to attend Murle Williams Fabric workshop.
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
ANDREW, MY HUSBANDS KITFOX IV IS FOR SALE ON EBAY. THE #IS 290170325423. IT
IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION AND OUR ONLY REASON FOR SELLING IT IS HE HAD A
VERY BAD STROKE LAST YEAR AND HE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FLY.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Lawrence" <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I was
> missing. I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work I
> needed on the plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at
> it. He also said he could do the condition inspections, and even motor
> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about
> them.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> ANdrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>
>>
>>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you
>>enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected
>>expenses. But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my
>>Kitfox in the 18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and
>>one condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection
>>because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
>>
>>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
>>inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I
>>had not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an
>>A&P for all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any
>>airplane (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
>>experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, replace
>>the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded
>>aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes
>>mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not
>>planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is if you
>>find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
>>and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
>>(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is
>>illegal).
>>
>>--------
>>Luis Rodriguez
>>Model IV 1200
>>Rotax 912UL
>>Flying Weekly
>>Laurens, SC (34A)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
It is beginning to look like your cost of operation is boiling down to
insurance and hangar/tie down costs. Every 300 hr 0r so your engine should
be rebuilt. I think the crank shafts are good for 600 hr. Pout side of that
there are no other major operational costs that I can think of unless you
have to trailer your plane to and form the airfield.
Noel
Some times I have a bad habit of stating the obvious.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Lawrence
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:35 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was
> anything that I was missing. I have a friend who is an A&P
> and he offered to do any work I needed on the plane, and to
> sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at it. He also
> said he could do the condition inspections, and even motor
> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a
> lot about them.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> ANdrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
> >Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
> >
> >
> >I don't believe that the number of people on this list can
> really give you enough of a sample size to get a useful
> estimate of your expected expenses. But, since you asked: The
> only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the 18 months
> that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one
> condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition
> inspection because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
> >
> >That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is
> willing to inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done
> on the aiplane. If I had not had that advantage, I would
> have had to take the airplane to an A&P for all the little
> nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane
> (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
> experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel
> lines, replace the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings
> and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing edge. I believe that
> owners of experimental airplanes mitigate cost by doing these
> kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not planning on building
> your airplane, the only way you can do this is if you find an
> A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not
> trivial and if you can't find this then your ownership costs
> will be much higher (unless you intend to do the work anyway
> which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
> >
> >--------
> >Luis Rodriguez
> >Model IV 1200
> >Rotax 912UL
> >Flying Weekly
> >Laurens, SC (34A)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Read this topic online here:
> >
> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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It's good to hear that things are going relatively well, Lowell. Let's hope
that things continue so for both you and Kay.=0AFred=0A=0A=0A
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Thanks for the heads up. I think I have identified one that I am interested in,
but I will deffinatly check out your husbands. I hope for the best for your
husband.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Burke <jeburke94je@hughes.net>
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 9:13 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>ANDREW, MY HUSBANDS KITFOX IV IS FOR SALE ON EBAY. THE #IS 290170325423. IT
>IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION AND OUR ONLY REASON FOR SELLING IT IS HE HAD A
>VERY BAD STROKE LAST YEAR AND HE IS NO LONGER ABLE TO FLY.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew Lawrence" <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 7:05 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I was
>> missing. I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work I
>> needed on the plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at
>> it. He also said he could do the condition inspections, and even motor
>> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about
>> them.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> ANdrew
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>>>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you
>>>enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected
>>>expenses. But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my
>>>Kitfox in the 18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and
>>>one condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection
>>>because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
>>>
>>>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
>>>inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I
>>>had not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an
>>>A&P for all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any
>>>airplane (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
>>>experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, replace
>>>the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded
>>>aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes
>>>mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not
>>>planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is if you
>>>find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
>>>and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
>>>(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is
>>>illegal).
>>>
>>>--------
>>>Luis Rodriguez
>>>Model IV 1200
>>>Rotax 912UL
>>>Flying Weekly
>>>Laurens, SC (34A)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Thanks again for all the help guys. I just wanted to make sure I was not getting
in over my head on the little extras. With a family I have to watch my budget.
:)
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 9:47 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>It is beginning to look like your cost of operation is boiling down to
>insurance and hangar/tie down costs. Every 300 hr 0r so your engine should
>be rebuilt. I think the crank shafts are good for 600 hr. Pout side of that
>there are no other major operational costs that I can think of unless you
>have to trailer your plane to and form the airfield.
>
>Noel
>
>Some times I have a bad habit of stating the obvious.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Andrew Lawrence
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:35 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>
>>
>> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was
>> anything that I was missing. I have a friend who is an A&P
>> and he offered to do any work I needed on the plane, and to
>> sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at it. He also
>> said he could do the condition inspections, and even motor
>> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a
>> lot about them.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> ANdrew
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>> >Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>> >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> >Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>> >
>> >
>> >I don't believe that the number of people on this list can
>> really give you enough of a sample size to get a useful
>> estimate of your expected expenses. But, since you asked: The
>> only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the 18 months
>> that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one
>> condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition
>> inspection because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
>> >
>> >That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is
>> willing to inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done
>> on the aiplane. If I had not had that advantage, I would
>> have had to take the airplane to an A&P for all the little
>> nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane
>> (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
>> experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel
>> lines, replace the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings
>> and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing edge. I believe that
>> owners of experimental airplanes mitigate cost by doing these
>> kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not planning on building
>> your airplane, the only way you can do this is if you find an
>> A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not
>> trivial and if you can't find this then your ownership costs
>> will be much higher (unless you intend to do the work anyway
>> which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
>> >
>> >--------
>> >Luis Rodriguez
>> >Model IV 1200
>> >Rotax 912UL
>> >Flying Weekly
>> >Laurens, SC (34A)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Operating costs? |
Andrew, I might be completely wrong here. It's happened to me before.
However, I don't believe you need anyone to sign off anything you do to the
airplane if it's Experimental. I believe the only thing that you need an
A/P for is to sign off the annual condition inspection. It's not the same
as for certified airplanes.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Deke
S5, NE Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Lawrence" <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I was
> missing. I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work I
> needed on the plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at
> it. He also said he could do the condition inspections, and even motor
> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about
> them.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> ANdrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>
>>
>>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you
>>enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected
>>expenses. But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my
>>Kitfox in the 18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and
>>one condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection
>>because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
>>
>>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
>>inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I
>>had not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an
>>A&P for all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any
>>airplane (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
>>experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, replace
>>the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded
>>aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes
>>mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not
>>planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is if you
>>find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
>>and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
>>(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is
>>illegal).
>>
>>--------
>>Luis Rodriguez
>>Model IV 1200
>>Rotax 912UL
>>Flying Weekly
>>Laurens, SC (34A)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
I'm with Deke.
Rex in Southeast Michigan
-- "fox5flyer" <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net> wrote:
Andrew, I might be completely wrong here. It's happened to me before.
However, I don't believe you need anyone to sign off anything you do to
the
airplane if it's Experimental. I believe the only thing that you need a
n
A/P for is to sign off the annual condition inspection. It's not the sa
me
as for certified airplanes.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Deke
S5, NE Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Lawrence" <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
> <1alawrence@earthlink.net>
>
> Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I
was
> missing. I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work
I
> needed on the plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked
at
> it. He also said he could do the condition inspections, and even moto
r
> rebuild come time. He has a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about
> them.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> ANdrew
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
>>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>>
>>
>>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give
you
>>enough of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected
>>expenses. But, since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to
my
>>Kitfox in the 18 months that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs
and
>>one condition inspection. I have to pay for the condition inspection
>>because, not being the builder, I can't do it myself.
>>
>>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to
>>inspect and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If
I
>>had not had that advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to a
n
>>A&P for all the little nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any
>>airplane (more often I believe with all but the most exceptional
>>experimentals). To list a few, I've had to replace the fuel lines, rep
lace
>>the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings and re-glue a de-bonded
>>aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental airplanes
>>mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If you're not
>>planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is if
you
>>find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not triv
ial
>>and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much high
er
>>(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend an
d is
>>illegal).
>>
>>--------
>>Luis Rodriguez
>>Model IV 1200
>>Rotax 912UL
>>Flying Weekly
>>Laurens, SC (34A)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Read this topic online here:
>>
>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
The cost of overhauling a 582 at 300 hours is about $2,700 (including a new seals,
gaskets, wrist pins, pistons, crank, rotary valve shaft/gear & bearings -
from LEAF). Then there's that 150 hour recommended "inspection." LEAF charges
$700-800 for that. Build all this into your hourly operating costs.
Thanks for the info, I just did not know if there was anything that I was missing.
I have a friend who is an A&P and he offered to do any work I needed on the
plane, and to sing off on smaller stuff after he looked at it. He also said
he could do the condition inspections, and even motor rebuild come time. He has
a Kitfox 4 himself, so he knows a lot about them.
Thanks again,
ANdrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: wingnut
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:42 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Operating costs?
>
>
>I don't believe that the number of people on this list can really give you enough
of a sample size to get a useful estimate of your expected expenses. But,
since you asked: The only expenses I've had related to my Kitfox in the 18 months
that I've owned it are fuel, oil, spark plugs and one condition inspection.
I have to pay for the condition inspection because, not being the builder, I
can't do it myself.
>
>That said, I'm fortunate in that I have a local A&P that is willing to inspect
and sign off on minor work that I've done on the aiplane. If I had not had that
advantage, I would have had to take the airplane to an A&P for all the little
nitpicky things that inevitably pop up with any airplane (more often I believe
with all but the most exceptional experimentals). To list a few, I've had
to replace the fuel lines, replace the gascolator, repack the tail wheel bearings
and re-glue a de-bonded aileron trailing edge. I believe that owners of experimental
airplanes mitigate cost by doing these kinds of jobs themselves. If
you're not planning on building your airplane, the only way you can do this is
if you find an A&P that is willing to sign off on your work. This is not trivial
and if you can't find this then your ownership costs will be much higher
(unless you intend to do the work anyway which I wouldn't recommend and is illegal).
>
>--------
>Luis Rodriguez
>Model IV 1200
>Rotax 912UL
>Flying Weekly
>Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140519#140519
>
>
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
__________________________________________________
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
At 02:01 PM 10/17/2007, you wrote:
>Hey guys, still looking into purchasing a Kitfox II. I was just
>wondering if any of you can give me an idea of the
>operating/maintanance costs per year. Not fuel, of course, but just
>a rough estimate of other costs, assuming no rebuilds, or no major damage.
Kitfox IV / 582-C in San Diego
Recurring costs:
Fuel $4.65 / g & 4.76gph
Oil ~$1.25/pt & 0.7pph (Not sure about this price.)
Engine $800 @ 150 hr.
$2700 @ 300 hr.
Repeat as necessary
Annual ~$150/yr
Tie down $105/mo
Insurance $570/yr $1M liability only
Tires $120/yr (Don't ask.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Operating costs? |
Looks like you're right. I checked the EAA web site and here's there answer to
that question:
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to experimental,
amateur-built aircraft. Therefore, any work (not just maintenance)
on an experimental aircraft can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of
credentials. (This does not apply to the condition inspection). Let common sense
be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct yourself.
On the other hand, if you didn't build the airplane your self, I'd say that having
an A&P look at your work is probably a good idea anyway.
> Andrew, I might be completely wrong here. It's happened to me before.However,
I don't believe you need anyone to sign off anything you do to the airplane if
it's Experimental. I believe the only thing that you need an A/P for is to sign
off the annual condition inspection.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=140576#140576
Message 34
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| Subject: | Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1 |
Ken
Look on the Barnstormers web site there is a MED 68" IVO three bladed
prop
for sale new in the box for 700.00
Marin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Harrison
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 4:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Propeller for Kitfox III, 582 C 3:1
Hello All,
I'm happy to report that I just passed my DAR inspection and am approved
to
start Phase I flight testing. My Kitfox is a Model III that was
purchase
back in 1992 and slowly assembled by several different owners in the US
and
Canada. I finally bought it last year and finished it. That's 15 years
build time and 5 builders in 2 countries, it might be some kind of
record.
Anyway, I need to buy a propeller. I was wondering if anyone has an IVO
medium 2 blade they would be willing to sell, or a Warp Drive 68"
3-blade.
I have a 582 with C drive and 3:1 ratio. Tried to order an IVO 2 blade
ultralight but IVO wouldn't sell it to me because of the
vibration/cracking
issue. I have been leaning toward the IVO because it has been a really
good
prop for me in the past and I think it might be a bit more efficient
than
the others, but I'm willing to try any good option.
I have a nice 70" Warp Drive 3-blade tapered-tip aluminum-hub RH tractor
prop if anyone is interested in buying or trading. I think it would
work
well on a 912 or other RH tuning engine.
I've really appreciated all the info over the last few months of
building.
And I'm even getting an education on biofuels and global warming to
boot!
Thanks,
Ken Harrison
kenharrison@charlottedesignbuild.com
980-328-5415
Lancaster, SC
Kitfox 3 / 582 / C drive / No prop
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: CopperState Airshow |
Rex sez:
>Anyone going? What day?
>I'm planning to attend Murle Williams Fabric workshop.
I'll be there, at least Friday and Saturday. I may even be helping
out at Murle's tent.
Mike G.
N728KF
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