Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:01 AM - Re: Re: Turtledeck kit/complete (Dave G.)
2. 03:10 AM - Re: Spam: Re: Low flying WAS: Kitfox vs. Van's RV (kitfoxjunky)
3. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic (Lynn Matteson)
4. 03:48 AM - Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic (dave)
5. 03:50 AM - Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) (Lynn Matteson)
6. 04:07 AM - Re: Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) (Lynn Matteson)
7. 04:18 AM - Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) (dave)
8. 04:21 AM - Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic (Lynn Matteson)
9. 05:03 AM - Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky MIchigan kit foxers (Malcolmbru@AOL.COM)
10. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic (Noel Loveys)
11. 03:14 PM - News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (dave)
12. 06:46 PM - Fw: Re: Attachment fitting at top of lift struts. (Guy Buchanan)
13. 08:06 PM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (akflyer)
14. 10:30 PM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (Tony Partain)
15. 11:17 PM - Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine (debrun26@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Turtledeck kit/complete |
Thanks but you might have to send it directly to my email. I got tied up in
the user name/password thing and all I get out of that is that I have been
banned. Can't figure that out.
Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mnflyer" <>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Turtledeck kit/complete
>
> Hi Dave I sent you a PM.
>
> --------
> GB
> MNFlyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142425#142425
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Low flying WAS: Kitfox vs. Van's RV |
Was reading the thread about stalls and spins. Last weekend I decided to
run the car gas out of my tanks. I leave 100 LL in it over the winter as I
may go a couple of months without flying and the av gas does not gum up.
It was a pretty windy day, even early in the morning. I was up at about
6000' AGL and decided to see how slow she would fly, and what it would be
like goofing around with the ailerons, flaps and rudder down around the
stall. I have done stalls before..but not an hours worth at a time. Fact
of the matter is it does not really stall if you enter it from straight
and level. It is more of a mush. You really have to get the nose up, sort
of a whip stall, before it will shudder and try to drop a wing. I
actually flew backwards from Burford to Brantford in the process.. a
distance of about 10 miles or so. Wind is often our enemy, but it can be
a lot of fun if you do not have to go anywhere in particular.
Gary Walsh
KF IV Anphib 912S
C-GOOT
www.decisionlabs.com/kitfox
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off |
topic
Seems like we talked about this earlier, Dave, and as I recall
mentioning back then, Pelee Island is in Canadian waters, and as
such, I cannot fly in there due to my lack of a medical (Sport
Pilot). Hopefully, Canada and the US can get together and get this
very small disagreement ironed out. I'd also like to fly up to
Alaska, but cannot because of the need to overfly Canada to get there.
At the time we were talking about this Canadian thing somebody
mentioned that I could fly into Canada, but it would require getting
permission to do so. I'm sorry to say that I still haven't looked
into what the actual restriction is, but I need to do just that.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/420+ hrs
do not archive
On Oct 28, 2007, at 8:38 PM, dave wrote:
>
> Lynn, A few us us met in Kitfoxes and various aircaft at Pelee
> island which is a bout 20 miles or so from Sandusky in Sept.
> There was close to 80 that flew in I think. 3 of us on amphibsI was
> still on floats them and makes flying across water lower more
> accommodating, for me anyhow.
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic |
Lynn, likewise for me going stateside. [Rolling Eyes]
> I'm sorry to say that I still haven't looked
> into what the actual restriction is, but I need to do just that.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142448#142448
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| Subject: | Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) |
I used an aluminum tab as well, Noel, but I'd still like to make it
cabin adjustable. I'd like to make it an electrical servo-operated,
like my elevator trim, but don't want to have to strip the fabric to
do so. I could use a sheathed cable, but haven't really sorted it all
out yet.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/420+ hrs
On Oct 28, 2007, at 8:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I used a piece of mild aluminium (non-aviation grade) for a rudder
> trim tab.
> The soft aluminium allows me to make corrections to the tab on the
> ground.
> That reminds me when I install the 912 I'll have to reverse that tab.
>
> Noel
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) |
I think you're confused, Dave. Maybe I started the confusion by
telling Michel that he could get a domed turtledeck that resists
flexing. I should have said that this is just a replacement "window"
to be installed into the aluminum frame that we get from Kitfox. This
does away with the hinge...which doesn't really do much, except leak
water...and stiffens the whole t'deck. I know there are some
aftermarket turtledecks out there that are made entirely from some
kind of plastic, but I haven't seen them in person, nor do I know how
well they work/look.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/420+ hrs
On Oct 28, 2007, at 8:44 PM, dave wrote:
>
> Deke,
> The reason is Lynn asked in the first place or am I confused here ?
> I have bent plenty of lexan but still got alum Turtledeck here .
>
>
> Dave
>
>
> Lynn, I'm not sure why he's asking either, but Lexan bends easily
> in brake.
> Depends on what you want to use it for.
> Lots of folks use a piece of bent Lexan for a trim tab.
> Deke
> S5
> Northeast MI
>
>
>> Michel-
>>
>> The cost from here (USA) would be prohibitively expensive, but LP
>> Aeroplastics sells, (and maybe John McBean does too), a domed
>> turtledeck that resists flexing. Alas, you cannot bend the 'deck for
>> storage, but on the other hand it doesn't leak water in the rain
>> either. It (the 'deck) will fit into my cabin if I have to take it
>> off for some reason...trailering, etc...but just barely.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Grass Lake, Michigan
>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>> flying w/420+ hrs
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate) |
Lynn, I think that is likely the case. I was thinking that you might have meant
those one piece plastic Turlte decks. And if so I was suggesting that one could
be made from bending some lexan in a brake. And I never mentioned heating
although you can heat Lexan to help stress relieve it but you have to be careful.
Best think on Lexan after cutting is to smooth out the edges or it is
likely that cracks can propagate from en-even edges.
Gotta run --s/b light soon and want to get a flight in 28F here today
Dave
> Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: Bending Lexan (polycarbonate)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think you're confused, Dave. Maybe I started the confusion by
> telling Michel that he could get a domed turtledeck that resists
> flexing. I should have said that this is just a replacement "window"
> to be installed into the aluminum frame that we get from Kitfox
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142452#142452
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off topic |
The one I got from Lowell's fly-in ought to work. How about it
Lowell...need a small rehab job? :)
Lynn
On Oct 28, 2007, at 9:13 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Lynn sez:
>
>> Maybe we all ought to proudly wear an I.D. badge when we attend
>> these informal gatherings, so others can see that we fly a Kitfox...
>
> Sounds like we have a volunteer to make the name badges, folks! :-)
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky MIchigan kit foxers |
Michigan kit foxes have a little data base as well that might help keep us
Michigan pilots connected. malcolm mod 2
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky, OH...only slightly off |
topic
I had a similar occurrence. Apparently there is a section of the FARs
that
allow a PP-Rec to fly his own plane in the U.S. for limited time (180
days)
the problem I came into is none of the FAA offices know anything about
it.
I finally got someone's secretary, I think it was in Buffalo New York,
she
told me the regularly make those arrangements but only for Canadian
Ultralight aircraft. My plane is AB and by definition can be flown as
an
ultralight in Canada. U.S. authorities want my plane to meet U.S.
ultralight specs.
In Canada the class 3 medical declaration is just that, a legal
declaration
that a pilot makes to say he doesn't have one foot under the sod. After
the
age of 45 the declaration requires that the pilot have an EKG every
second
year. That part of the declaration must be signed by the doctor who
ordered
the EKG. As you know the U.S. system has the drivers license as a
standard.
Where we are stuck is both countries say the other is flying without an
aviation medical.
I can't see Canada taking up the driver's license as a medical because I
doubt any of the provinces (somewhat equivalent to states) have a
medical
from for a driver's license. Here in Newfoundland for example there are
medicals for tractor trailer operators, school bus drivers, air brake
endorsement and ambulance drivers etc. Our highway traffic act requires
a
doctor to inform the Department of Highways when he sees a patient who
can
no longer drive. I expect highways gets around one report from doctors
each
year. There is the legal question as to whether highways is intruding
on
the Canadian Medical Association the governing body for doctors.
Mounties
(police in this area) can order a doctor to take a blood test for
alcohol
when a patient arrives at a hospital. More often than not the request
is
complied with. No doctor has ever been convicted of refusing this order
and
several refusals have been noted.
All this aside there is no reason they can't write into the CARs
(replace
Federal with Canadian) U.S. pilots using the legal medical/flight permit
in
their country would be able to fly in Canada. The reciprocal could also
be
true.
There may be another couple of hang ups for me if they didn't include
the
flight permit part. I fly floats as an ultralight (by definition)in
Canada.
In the U.S. that requires an endorsement. If I dropped the floats then
I
have a conventional (tail dragger) gear that also in the U.S. requires
an
endorsement. Also I can have a IFA prop (I have the Ivo IFA) in
Canada... I
don't know if that requires another endorsement in the U.S.
If the bureaucrats on both sides of the border would sit down and settle
the
medical issues. I can't see it taking more than a good weekend if every
one
comes prepared. We all would benefit. Unfortunately that is low on the
list of priorities.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:06 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Chili fly-in at Sandusky,
> OH...only slightly off topic
>
>
>
> Seems like we talked about this earlier, Dave, and as I recall
> mentioning back then, Pelee Island is in Canadian waters, and as
> such, I cannot fly in there due to my lack of a medical (Sport
> Pilot). Hopefully, Canada and the US can get together and get this
> very small disagreement ironed out. I'd also like to fly up to
> Alaska, but cannot because of the need to overfly Canada to
> get there.
> At the time we were talking about this Canadian thing somebody
> mentioned that I could fly into Canada, but it would require getting
> permission to do so. I'm sorry to say that I still haven't looked
> into what the actual restriction is, but I need to do just that.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/420+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2007, at 8:38 PM, dave wrote:
>
> >
> > Lynn, A few us us met in Kitfoxes and various aircaft at Pelee
> > island which is a bout 20 miles or so from Sandusky in Sept.
> > There was close to 80 that flew in I think. 3 of us on
> amphibsI was
> > still on floats them and makes flying across water lower more
> > accommodating, for me anyhow.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
Odd how the media tries to "distort" things
REad the last 4 lines Sheeeshhhhhhhhh !!!
Small airplane crashes into Columbia River
http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2007/10/10292007_Small-airplane-crashes-into-Columbia-River.cfm
Monday, October 29, 2007
BY DAVE KERN, Columbian staff writer
Two Multnomah County residents survived a small airplane crash Sunday evening in
the Columbia River about two miles west of Beacon Rock.
Skamania County Undersheriff Dave Cox said pilot Doug Nelsen and his nephew, Scott
Nelsen, both of Gresham, Ore., were flying a Kitfox Lite 2 homemade aircraft
when it went down about 5:10 p.m.
Cox said the two got out of the plane and swam to a sandbar off Skamania Island,
not far from Cape Horn and the St. Cloud area of Skamania County. They were
not hurt and declined medical attention. Their ages were not reported.
Fisherman Cam Crenshaw, 41, of Gresham, was fishing alone in his 22-foot Thunder
Jet boat and witnessed the crash, and rescued the two.
"It was coming in real low, like it was going to land on the (island's) beach.
He pulled back up and it stalled on him, and he went straight up and then ended
up doing a nose dive," Crenshaw said.
"I was right there ... probably a couple hundred feet away. They came out (of the
plane) real quick, that was the best part," Crenshaw said.
"It was real shallow water; they had to swim in a little bit. The plane ended up
sinking in probably 15 to 20 feet of water."
Crenshaw continued, "They were in a little state of shock. ... They were a little
dazed and confused with what happened." He called 911; Skamania County was
the first on the scene, Cox said.
Cox added, "The pilot said they were doing about 38 to 40 knots and he pulled up
and the plane stalled on him. They just kind of flopped down."
Cox said the plane has a two-stroke engine and had about five gallons of fuel on
board.
Cox said Skamania County Emergency Medical Service responded, as did Chief Criminal
Deputy Pat Bond, Sgt. Brett Robison, Deputy Shelley Flood and Deputy Chris
Helton. He added that the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation
Safety Board are investigating.
The Kitfox Web site says the plane "is a 2-seat side-by-side aircraft that has
truly amazing handling characteristics and is just as comfortable in the back
country bush flying as it is flying cross country into some of the busiest airspace."
It adds that the plane is a light sport aircraft.
The Web site carries this motto: "It's not how Fast ... it's how Fun!"
[/b]
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142610#142610
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Attachment fitting at top of lift struts. |
All,
Rex wins the award! (Whatever that may be.) He found the
fabled 14g number, (see attached,) associated with a lift strut test.
Using the data shown and my Kitfox IV geometry I calculate a single
strut load of about 6500# at failure. I did find a 1/4x1/4 rod end
with a 6190# ultimate, (AW-4, "
Female Rod Ends, High Strength Alloy - Precision",
) but the only 1/4x5/16 I can find is a GMW-4M-595, "
Female Rod Ends, General Aviation - Precision", which has an ultimate
strength of 3359#. (My rod end is marked MW-4H-12. I've got a message
into Aurora to learn what that might be.) So I'm guessing that Denney
used the high strength rod end with the 6190#, or thereabouts, ultimate.
Therefore, pending confirmation of my rod end design, I
stand corrected, and apologize to all for my calculations. (I assumed
my rod end was the GMW, which as you can see has only half the
strength of the AW, but still gets you over 6 g's ultimate at 1200
pounds gross.)
I also checked the 5/16" rod and it was good to 11g, based
on 1050# gross, (125ksi rod,) which is close enough, and the 1/4"
bolt, which is good to about 16g, based on 1050# gross.
The moral of the story is: when you replace your rod ends,
make sure they are high strength alloy if you want the full 14g
capability. (Now I believe I owe Dave a calculation of the strength
of the outboard section of the wing.)
Guy Buchanan
>Delivered-To: bnn@nethere.com
>X-Authenticated-User: rhefferan.centurytel.net
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:00:47 -0600
>From: Rexinator <rexinator@gmail.com>
>User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803)
>X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>To: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
>Subject: Re: Attachment fitting at top of lift struts.
>
>Guy,
>Here are a couple of scans of the load tests that I found in the
>newsletters I have. I'm sending GIF files because they are smaller,
>but can convert to other formats if you like.
>
>The file "KF2strut-test.gif" was on the front page of a newsletter
>that did not have a date printed at the top like the others I have.
>However you can see that it must have been around mid-1990 since it
>describes the test as having been performed in April 1990 and then a
>factory Fly-In was scheduled for Sept. 1990 in another article.
>
>The second file "KFwing-load.gif" was on the back page of "Kitfox
>Times" another publication by Denny Aircraft dated Jan/Feb 1992. I
>seem to remember details mentioned with this photo from another
>printing which defined the weight of the sandbags and the simulated
>G load. I may be confused so don't quote me about that.
>
>I hope this helps,
>Rex Hefferan
>
>
>Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
>>At 03:54 AM 10/24/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>>Guy,
>>>I've had a few unexpected things come up and I've been unable to
>>>get to my old papers. I now looks like I'll be away from them
>>>until next Sunday. I'm sorry about that, but I'll still plan to
>>>look for the article then.
>>>Rex
>>
>>
>>No problem Rex. We've been having some adventures down here in San
>>Diego and are fairly distracted at the moment. Thanks for thinking
>>about it, though.
>>
>>Guy
>
>--
>Rex Hefferan
>SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
>
>
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
where is the distortion???? dont see it from here..
Holy crap, they said it was a fun plane to fly... those idiots dont know a thing
do they?
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142667#142667
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
[quote]Holy crap, they said it was a fun plane to fly... those idiots dont know
a thing do they?
[Shocked] Now thats some funny sh%t!!! NO FUN ALLOWED HERE.......
--------
Tony Partain
Partain Transport Company
Bend Oregon
http://www.partaintransport.com
RV7 IO360 CS 116WT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142687#142687
Message 15
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| Subject: | Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine |
For those who have helped me with the problems I was having with my Suba
ru engine I would like to say THANK YOU!! I don't know why but it quit
dumping oil and the compression came back up. The cutting out that I wa
s experiencing was because I needed to keep the boost on all the time wi
th the throttle body injection.... Bottom line is my plane is performin
g great and I'm having a blast learning how to fly in it. I apreciate a
ll the help from this Kitfox sight. I have noticed that power off stall
s are very fun but power on stalls seem to go into an immediate spin and
scare the crap out of me but can be corrected with the right rudder con
trol. I hope to have my solo by next week. Layne Anchorage, Alaska
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