Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Fw: Re: Attachment fitting at top of lift struts. (dave)
2. 02:46 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (dave)
3. 07:43 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (akflyer)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine (akflyer)
5. 08:19 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (dave)
6. 09:33 AM - New to group (RaStacey)
7. 10:21 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (wingnut)
8. 10:33 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (akflyer)
9. 11:21 AM - Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (dave)
10. 02:14 PM - Re: New to group (Dave G.)
11. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents (Noel Loveys)
12. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine (Noel Loveys)
13. 06:52 PM - Re: New to group (dave)
14. 07:22 PM - Re: New to group (Noel Loveys)
15. 07:22 PM - Re: New to group (Noel Loveys)
16. 10:45 PM - Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine (akflyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Attachment fitting at top of lift struts. |
Guy, Excellent follow up !!
I have the same document that Rex provided you as well as another one if you look
that will read " at 950 lbs maximum , the Speedster is capable of positive
G aerobatics, ultimate load limits of 9 g _ and 4.5 G - " it is scanned and
poor quality but i will try and get a better scanned copy.
With that being said the Speedster has wings that are 1 1/2 feet shorter each so
the outboard flex will be a little less than on the long wing model..
And Guy when calculating this I think that the .058 spar had a longer stiffener
inside at the wing strut attach point that the 065 spar but as usual I stand
to be corrected.
> (Now I believe I owe Dave a calculation of the strength
> of the outboard section of the wing.)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142695#142695
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
Yes i think they were actually in a subtle way trying to ridicule this part of
the article Cox added, "The pilot said they were doing about 38 to 40 knots and
he pulled up and the plane stalled on him. They just kind of flopped down."]
then adding this at the bottom
The Kitfox Web site says the plane "is a 2-seat side-by-side aircraft that has
truly amazing handling characteristics and is just as comfortable in the back
country bush flying as it is flying cross country into some of the busiest airspace."
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142696#142696
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
Sorry for the first reply.. just couldn't help myself..
I think you may be a bit to sensitive on this one. I don't see anything wrong
with what they wrote.
On the other hand, you ever flown way tail heavy? kinda has a familiar ring to
the story.. plane gets slow (nose should drop) but instead pitches up. Sounds
like they were a bit tail heavy to me, if they were indeed lined up for landing
on the bar as the witness suggested. If not he may have just pulled up and
stalled it.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142729#142729
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine |
when doing power on stalls, you have to keep the ball centered or she will turn
turtle on you. When I first started training in a PA12 it was very forgiving
of un-coordinated power on stalls, then I jumped into a 172 and got the surprise
of my life when she broke into a spin.
Has your instructor hammered you on accelerated stalls (moose hunter stalls).
If not, make sure you insist that you get training on them before the solo. Too
many guys bite it up here do to accelerated stalls (I have lost a few good
buddies to them).
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142731#142731
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
I not sensitive at all , the article read that he just pulled up and it stalled
WELL HELLO you going a bit slow Buddy .........
but the writer put in the article that it supposed to handle so well according
to Manufacturer's website
Bottom line from article surely hints that the pilot just plain screwed up and
flew too slow and got in trouble. Just like Michel said the other day -- too
many Kitfoxes are stalled on take off and landing and/or stall /spin accidents.
It same old story lack of pilot ability and training. I really doubt tail
heavy has anything to do with it.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142737#142737
Message 6
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Hello.
I'm interested in getting into flying and have a few questions about
flying a Kitfox in Canada.
First I was wondering if a model ii can be registered as an advanced
ultralight in Canada or can it only be registered as a Basic ultralight?
The second question is about the Rotax 532. How many are currently in
operation? What would be involved with replacing the engine a 532 with
a 582 from a regulation standpoint?
thanks
Bob Stacey
Flatrock Newfoundland
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
> too many Kitfoxes are stalled on take off and landing and/or stall /spin accidents.
It same old story lack of pilot ability and training. I really doubt tail
heavy has anything to do with it.
I wonder. The testimony from the witness reads: "he went straight up and then ended
up doing a nose dive". I don't think I can get my Model 4 to do anything
that would be described that way when it's going that slow. At 40knts, I can
get it to stall easy enough but I don't think I can get it to pitch up very much.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142774#142774
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
wingnut wrote:
>
> > too many Kitfoxes are stalled on take off and landing and/or stall /spin accidents.
It same old story lack of pilot ability and training. I really doubt
tail heavy has anything to do with it.
>
>
> I wonder. The testimony from the witness reads: "he went straight up and then
ended up doing a nose dive". I don't think I can get my Model 4 to do anything
that would be described that way when it's going that slow. At 40knts, I can
get it to stall easy enough but I don't think I can get it to pitch up very
much.
I agree. At 40 knots in my brothers model II I can haul the stick back and it
will mush or drop a wing, but will not pitch straight up, HOWEVER, I have been
in a PA12 that I had loaded way tail heavy (productive hunt) and after I got
it off the ground and to altitude, I slowed her down to see how she handled as
the strip I was going to land at required a pretty slow approach to give you
room to stop.... the normal stall speed on the 12 no flaps was 42 mph.. at about
55 the tail dropped out from under me and went into a nice tail slide before
I got the nose flopped over. I diverted to a larger strip and executed a nice
wheel landing..
This sounds more like what happened to these guys, that or they misjudged the speed
they were at and they were actually flying a good bit faster.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142776#142776
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
interesting theory but it does revolve around the 38 to 40 knots ...... is that
accurate? or was it 50 to 60 knots with power ?
Who knows but certainly one thing for sure happened - it stalled and party was
over. Luckily they were reported to be ok.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142784#142784
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New to group |
You need a certificate of conformity to register as an AUL in Canada.
Skystar is gone and no longer issuing them of course, and I doubt if the
new Kitfox company has any interest in getting involved in that aspect
of a design they never produced. I would guess that you may fly it as a
BUL or if it has all the nescessary logs you might be succesful getting
it registered as an amateur built. This is simply my understanding of
the rules, your local bureaucrat may have a different one.
Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RaStacey
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New to group
Hello.
I'm interested in getting into flying and have a few questions about
flying a Kitfox in Canada.
First I was wondering if a model ii can be registered as an advanced
ultralight in Canada or can it only be registered as a Basic ultralight?
The second question is about the Rotax 532. How many are currently in
operation? What would be involved with replacing the engine a 532 with
a 582 from a regulation standpoint?
thanks
Bob Stacey
Flatrock Newfoundland
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents |
Ay least they tried to get some good info..... They probably would have
been better off talking to someone at Kitfox LLc.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:15 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: News alerts "Kitfox " accidents
>
>
>
> Yes i think they were actually in a subtle way trying to
> ridicule this part of the article Cox added, "The pilot said
> they were doing about 38 to 40 knots and he pulled up and the
> plane stalled on him. They just kind of flopped down."]
>
>
> then adding this at the bottom
>
>
> The Kitfox Web site says the plane "is a 2-seat side-by-side
> aircraft that has truly amazing handling characteristics and
> is just as comfortable in the back country bush flying as it
> is flying cross country into some of the busiest airspace."
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142696#142696
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine |
I trained on a 172 and I just about had to kick the carp ( I know it's a
fish but I'm trying to keep this PG) out of it to get it to spin. Once the
spin started though I found it easy to break with the rudder. To be honest
I never let the spin develop anything past insipid. Flight school rules
were no spins with out an instructor on board.
Now what is a Moose Hunter stall and will it help fill my license??? What
do you mean by accelerated??
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:16 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine
>
>
>
> when doing power on stalls, you have to keep the ball
> centered or she will turn turtle on you. When I first
> started training in a PA12 it was very forgiving of
> un-coordinated power on stalls, then I jumped into a 172 and
> got the surprise of my life when she broke into a spin.
>
> Has your instructor hammered you on accelerated stalls (moose
> hunter stalls). If not, make sure you insist that you get
> training on them before the solo. Too many guys bite it up
> here do to accelerated stalls (I have lost a few good buddies
> to them).
>
> --------
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> 95% complete
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142731#142731
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: New to group |
Dave, you covered that pretty well.
Bob,
Now once big question is How is it registered now ? Is it Canadian or US registered
or no at all?
532 Rotax is a good engine but you are better to swap for a 582 with dual ignition
. I can let you know of costs to rebuild and /or replace engine and your
options. I am in Ontario ,
email me dave AT cfisher.com
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142871#142871
Message 14
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RaStacey
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New to group
Hello.
I'm interested in getting into flying and have a few questions about flying
a Kitfox in Canada.
First I was wondering if a model ii can be registered as an advanced
ultralight in Canada or can it only be registered as a Basic ultralight?
The second question is about the Rotax 532. How many are currently in
operation? What would be involved with replacing the engine a 532 with a
582 from a regulation standpoint?
thanks
Bob Stacey
Flatrock Newfoundland
Message 15
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First things first.
Getting registered as AULA requires a letter of conformity (LOC) issued
by
the kit provider. At the time your plane was ordered Kitfox was
produced,
not built, by the Denney Aircraft Corp. and Mr. Denney would have to
sign
the LOC with today's date on it assuming Mr. Denney can/will inspect it
today..... Mission impossible IV!!
Next point. Assuming you can move mountains with a glance... and get
the
LOC, then you have the problem of a twenty year old obsolete two stroke
engine. Once registered AULA you can't make any changes. (period) So
you
will have to change the engine before going for the AULA. TC will not
allow
you to change anything structural on the plane after the LOC.
What's a guy to do?? Well you can register it BULA. On this next point
I'm
a bit foggy and no doubt if I'm wrong some one will jump in and
straighten
me out. I think there is a procedure that allows you to get your BULA
inspected for passenger carrying. As I say I may be wrong. The guy to
E-Mail is Garry Wolfe, He's the president of the Recreational Aircraft
Association (RAA) in Canada. Check out their site for his E-Mail
address.
http://www.raa.ca
Finally you may still be able to register the plane as AB. This may be
possible if it was registered AB previously.
At the moment I am sitting on a pile of paper work from TC for my mod
III-A
(closer to a model II)which I want to install a 912. Unfortunately for
me,
the original builder put the make, model and Hp of the engine on the
data
plate (most only say Rotax engine). The hoops I have to jump through
now
are to buy a factory mount, and finish the installation. Then, next
summer
I have to do a climb test, It has to climb as gross a minimum of
200'/min.
Then I have the 25 hr. fly off. This winter and next spring/ summer
will be
busy. Basically what they want me to do is to re-register my plane with
the
new engine. You can be sure the new data plate will only have the
minimum
info on it. I can do the installation with a home brew mount but then I
would have to have the plane inspected completely. The factory mount
from
Kitfox LLC will save me time, money and what little hair I have been
able to
hang on to.
Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
Campbellton, Newfoundland,
Canada
Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100s
<mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RaStacey
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New to group
Hello.
I'm interested in getting into flying and have a few questions about
flying
a Kitfox in Canada.
First I was wondering if a model ii can be registered as an advanced
ultralight in Canada or can it only be registered as a Basic ultralight?
The second question is about the Rotax 532. How many are currently in
operation? What would be involved with replacing the engine a 532 with
a
582 from a regulation standpoint?
thanks
Bob Stacey
Flatrock Newfoundland
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 5 w/ sooby NSI engine |
accelerated stall is getting the plane to stall at well over stall speed.. say
in a cub or something of that nature that stalls at 40-45.. you think that flying
along at 75 or 80 you are safe. You see something on the ground that happens
to catch your eye so you bank over and yank it around and fall out of the
sky. Put your plane into a nice steep bank and start hauling the stick in your
lap slowly tightening your circle, add power to keep the speed up and keep pulling
the stick just like you were intently looking at something on the ground.
Keep pulling the stick into your lap till you break and fall out of the sky..
A "moose hunter" stall is basically the same, but normally you are un-coordinated
as you as stomping on the rudder trying to bring the nose around to so you
can keep the "moose" you are looking at in view. Normally guys are low and slow
out spotting and we all know what happens when you stall uncoordinated....
you will spin and are to low to recover... alot of the time guys are low enough
that they hit the ground at a fairly low speed and survive the impact... only
to burn up in the fire afterward. It kills ALOT of guys up here so my instructor
hammered the hell out of me on both accelerated stalls and uncoordinated
"moose hunter" stalls as he was well aware of the type of flying I would be doing
the second he turned me loose to solo (the guy is a genius). I can tell
you with a straight face that he saved my life more than once as I was doing exactly
what I was trained not to do, and caught it a split second before it broke
into a full spin. Had I not know what it felt like (not just "incipient")
and had it burned into my brain how to recover with very minimal loss of altitude
I bet I would not be typing this right now.
Whew didn't mean to get that long winded, just a subject I don't think gets put
across to student pilots the way it should..
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142902#142902
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