Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 AM - need King Fox rims (Steve Shinabery)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: need King Fox rims (Kevin Ridsdale)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: Accelerated stalls (Rexinator)
4. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Low flying (Michel Verheughe)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: Accelerated stalls (Michel Verheughe)
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Accelerated stalls (akflyer)
7. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Low flying (Lynn Matteson)
8. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Accelerated stalls (Rexinator)
9. 11:45 AM - Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (darinh)
10. 12:08 PM - Stalls and Spins (fox5flyer)
11. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Accelerated stalls (Michel Verheughe)
12. 01:06 PM - Re: Stalls and Spins (wingnut)
13. 01:27 PM - Re: Accelerated stalls (dave)
14. 01:28 PM - Re: Stalls and Spins (dave)
15. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: Stalls and Spins (Jose M. Toro)
16. 01:38 PM - Re: Stalls and Spins (dave)
17. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Stalls and Spins (Michel Verheughe)
18. 03:03 PM - Re: need King Fox rims (Steve Shinabery)
19. 03:11 PM - V speeds (Sbennett3@aol.com)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (Vic Baker)
21. 04:33 PM - Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (john oakley)
22. 06:09 PM - Re: temporary removal (Ron Liebmann)
23. 07:00 PM - First video attempt (Kevin Cozik)
24. 07:17 PM - Re: First video attempt (Kevin Cozik)
25. 07:20 PM - Re: First video attempt (84KF)
26. 08:17 PM - Re: First video attempt (Fred Shiple)
27. 08:38 PM - Re: V speeds (Michael Gibbs)
28. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: Accelerated stalls (Michael Gibbs)
29. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Stalls and Spins (Guy Buchanan)
30. 08:51 PM - Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (Guy Buchanan)
31. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: temporary removal (Guy Buchanan)
32. 10:35 PM - Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (darinh)
33. 10:39 PM - Re: First video attempt (darinh)
34. 11:04 PM - Re: Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | need King Fox rims |
I am needing a set of King Fox Rims.to fit my new tires from Dave
Fisher.does any one have a set that I could buy?or know where I could
get a set..please contact me Steve shinabery email me off line at
shinco@bright.net N554KF 1992 KF2
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| Subject: | Re: need King Fox rims |
Steve,
Matco makes rims complete with brakes for the 8" King fox tires The cost is $600.00 contact Matco directly at www.matcomfg.com
The model number is MHE8B. It uses and external caliper brake that is rated
at 2200 in-lb at 450 psi. It uses 1.25 inch tapered roller bearings and each
wheel is rated at 750 lb static load with a 3 G overload ultimate load.
Kevin R
MiPPi
Steve Shinabery <shinco@bright.net> wrote:
I am needing a set of King Fox Rims.to fit my new tires from Dave
Fisher.does any one have a set that I could buy?or know where I could
get a set..please contact me Steve shinabery email me off line at
shinco@bright.net N554KF 1992 KF2
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
I decided to add a little to what Leonard has written. A wing stall
occurs any time the Angle of Attack exceeds the lift a wing can generate
regardless of airspeed. Accelerated stalls are demonstrated specifically
by putting the airplane in a 60 degree bank at a specific airspeed
(usually a slow cruise speed - Va?) while holding altitude. Properly
done this creates a 2G force which we know all aircraft should be
capable of sustaining normally. In this maneuver the aircraft should be
in balance (ball centered otherwise you can snap roll into a spin) while
the throttle is slowly decreased until stall entry is felt, then recover
from the stall. It is a maneuver taught to CFI pilots and is intended
to impress on the pilot that an airplane can stall at higher than the
airspeed published for straight and level flight. So don't try this
without an instructor or maybe a competent aerobatic check pilot.
In aerobatics the technique is used for snap rolls and other maneuvers
where you want a dramatic and quick change of attitude. Both literally
and figuratively. :-)
So Leonard was taught part of a aerobatic technique which has probably
saved his life. This is the kind of instruction we all should have.
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule2.html
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
akflyer wrote:
>
>accelerated stall is getting the plane to stall at well over stall speed.. say
in a cub or something of that nature that stalls at 40-45.. you think that flying
along at 75 or 80 you are safe. You see something on the ground that happens
to catch your eye so you bank over and yank it around and fall out of the
sky. Put your plane into a nice steep bank and start hauling the stick in your
lap slowly tightening your circle, add power to keep the speed up and keep
pulling the stick just like you were intently looking at something on the ground.
Keep pulling the stick into your lap till you break and fall out of the sky..
>
>A "moose hunter" stall is basically the same, but normally you are un-coordinated
as you as stomping on the rudder trying to bring the nose around to so you
can keep the "moose" you are looking at in view. Normally guys are low and slow
out spotting and we all know what happens when you stall uncoordinated....
you will spin and are to low to recover... alot of the time guys are low enough
that they hit the ground at a fairly low speed and survive the impact... only
to burn up in the fire afterward. It kills ALOT of guys up here so my instructor
hammered the hell out of me on both accelerated stalls and uncoordinated
"moose hunter" stalls as he was well aware of the type of flying I would be
doing the second he turned me loose to solo (the guy is a genius). I can tell
you with a straight face that he saved my life more than once as I was doing
exactly what I was trained not to do, and caught it a split second before it broke
into a full spin. Had I not know what it felt l!
> ike (not just "incipient") and had it burned into my brain how to recover with
very minimal loss of altitude I bet I would not be typing this right now.
>
>Whew didn't mean to get that long winded, just a subject I don't think gets put
across to student pilots the way it should..
>
>--------
>Leonard Perry
>Soldotna AK
>Avid "C" / Mk IV
>582 IVO IFA
>Full Lotus 1260
>95% complete
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142902#142902
>
>
Message 4
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On Oct 29, 2007, at 1:42 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> I'm just trying to figure a way of giving your TD a bit more strength
> without actually building a new one.
Thank you, Noel and Lynn. I might consider a new turtledeck but ... I
don't think the reason mine makes a sound is that it is weak ... or
does it? Nobody else is hearing that sound? It's not a big one but my
Jabiru at idle is making almost no noise at all and, in fact, I never
noticed it when I had the 582.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
On Oct 31, 2007, at 3:36 PM, Rexinator wrote:
> an airplane can stall at higher than the airspeed published for
> straight and level flight. So don't try this without an instructor or
> maybe a competent aerobatic check pilot.
If I am not mistaking, at 60 degrees coordinated bank you endure 2 Gs
and your stall speed is increased by the square root of 2, or 1.4 times
the published straight level flight. Does that make sense?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
rexinator(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I decided to add a little to what Leonard has written. A wing stall
> occurs any time the Angle of Attack exceeds the lift a wing can generate
> regardless of airspeed. Accelerated stalls are demonstrated specifically
> by putting the airplane in a 60 degree bank at a specific airspeed
> (usually a slow cruise speed - Va?) while holding altitude. Properly
> done this creates a 2G force which we know all aircraft should be
> capable of sustaining normally. In this maneuver the aircraft should be
> in balance (ball centered otherwise you can snap roll into a spin) while
> the throttle is slowly decreased until stall entry is felt, then recover
> from the stall. It is a maneuver taught to CFI pilots and is intended
> to impress on the pilot that an airplane can stall at higher than the
> airspeed published for straight and level flight. So don't try this
> without an instructor or maybe a competent aerobatic check pilot.
> In aerobatics the technique is used for snap rolls and other maneuvers
> where you want a dramatic and quick change of attitude. Both literally
> and figuratively. :-)
>
> So Leonard was taught part of a aerobatic technique which has probably
> saved his life. This is the kind of instruction we all should have.
> ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds
> http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule2.html
>
> --
> Rex Hefferan
> SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
>
>
>
>
> akflyer wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > accelerated stall is getting the plane to stall at well over stall speed..
say in a cub or something of that nature that stalls at 40-45.. you think that
flying along at 75 or 80 you are safe. You see something on the ground that
happens to catch your eye so you bank over and yank it around and fall out of
the sky. Put your plane into a nice steep bank and start hauling the stick in
your lap slowly tightening your circle, add power to keep the speed up and keep
pulling the stick just like you were intently looking at something on the ground.
Keep pulling the stick into your lap till you break and fall out of the
sky..
> >
> > A "moose hunter" stall is basically the same, but normally you are un-coordinated
as you as stomping on the rudder trying to bring the nose around to so
you can keep the "moose" you are looking at in view. Normally guys are low and
slow out spotting and we all know what happens when you stall uncoordinated....
you will spin and are to low to recover... alot of the time guys are low enough
that they hit the ground at a fairly low speed and survive the impact...
only to burn up in the fire afterward. It kills ALOT of guys up here so my instructor
hammered the hell out of me on both accelerated stalls and uncoordinated
"moose hunter" stalls as he was well aware of the type of flying I would
be doing the second he turned me loose to solo (the guy is a genius). I can tell
you with a straight face that he saved my life more than once as I was doing
exactly what I was trained not to do, and caught it a split second before it
broke into a full spin. Had I not know what it felt l!
> > ike (not just "incipient") and had it burned into my brain how to recover
with very minimal loss of altitude I bet I would not be typing this right now.
> >
> > Whew didn't mean to get that long winded, just a subject I don't think gets
put across to student pilots the way it should..
> >
> > --------
> > Leonard Perry
> > Soldotna AK
> > Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > 582 IVO IFA
> > Full Lotus 1260
> > 95% complete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142902#142902
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
on the bold... it used to be that you were taught full on fall out of the sky stalls
and spins... The government in their infinite wisdom decided that this was
not good and now you are only taught to recover at the first signs of a buffet
not letting it get into a full stall. I think this is a HUGE mistake as I
think every pilot out there should be taught, at a bare minimum spin recovery
techniques. I bet alot of guys would still be around that spun in a kitfox if
they knew without hesitation that they had to take the stick outa their lap
to recover. When you are low to the ground the first instinct is to try and pull
the nose up...so they spin all the way in, when in fact, they could have recovered,
change shorts then gone and had a beer to calm the nerves.
--------
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142958#142958
Message 7
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I guess if it was me, I'd try to temporarily stiffen the t'deck and
see if this eliminates/changes the noise.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/420+ hrs
do not archive
On Oct 31, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Oct 29, 2007, at 1:42 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>> I'm just trying to figure a way of giving your TD a bit more strength
>> without actually building a new one.
>
> Thank you, Noel and Lynn. I might consider a new turtledeck but ...
> I don't think the reason mine makes a sound is that it is weak ...
> or does it? Nobody else is hearing that sound? It's not a big one
> but my Jabiru at idle is making almost no noise at all and, in
> fact, I never noticed it when I had the 582.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
I totally agree with Leonard that all pilots ought to know how to
recover from a spin. Some pilots are afraid to be in unusual attitudes
and perhaps would not become pilots if it were a requirement. That may
be the reason it was decided it was better not to require such training
and just the avoidance. Plus from what I was told there were more
training crashes years ago when it was included.
This way more certified pilots are created and it's been left up to the
individual to advance their training. Probably more of a political
decision than a wise one. I would encourage all pilots to learn how
handle unusual attitudes or at least continue training and include
commercial manuevers which would increase their feel for the aircraft
they fly. However, probably spins are something only risk taking
personalities want to persue, but it should not be that way. Properly
done in the proper airplane it's safe and gentle, although seeing the
ground fill the view out of your windshield while spinning will shock
most people at first it's just something to get used to. Once you know
what to expect and can correct it on your own it can become just another
skill.
Michel Verheughe wrote:
If I am not mistaking, at 60 degrees coordinated bank you endure 2 Gs
and your stall speed is increased by the square root of 2, or 1.4 times
the published straight level flight. Does that make sense?
Michel, the link below addresses the formula and states it to be 1.41 x
Vs (the published straight level flight stall), but you are close enough.
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule2.html#accel_stall
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
akflyer wrote:
>on the bold... it used to be that you were taught full on fall out of the sky
stalls and spins... The government in their infinite wisdom decided that this
was not good and now you are only taught to recover at the first signs of a buffet
not letting it get into a full stall. I think this is a HUGE mistake as
I think every pilot out there should be taught, at a bare minimum spin recovery
techniques. I bet alot of guys would still be around that spun in a kitfox
if they knew without hesitation that they had to take the stick outa their lap
to recover. When you are low to the ground the first instinct is to try and
pull the nose up...so they spin all the way in, when in fact, they could have
recovered, change shorts then gone and had a beer to calm the nerves.
>
>--------
>Leonard Perry
>Soldotna AK
>Avid "C" / Mk IV
>582 IVO IFA
>Full Lotus 1260
>95% complete
>
>
>
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
Message 9
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| Subject: | Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
What is everyone using to seal the joint between the upper and sides of the boot
cowl (cowl bonnet) to the firewall? I did not install any firewall blanket
or insulation as I didn't want that on the engine side of the firewall and with
the toe box, it was a bit of a paint to get in properly not to mention trying
to work around all the penetrations. I do want to "seal" the joint between
the upper lip and sides of the boot cowl though and was wondering what is the
best material to use?
Thanks guys.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142967#142967
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| Subject: | Stalls and Spins |
I read the same thing. Too many students AND instructors were dying by
either practicing or demonstrating spins. Feds decided that, in their
profound wisdom, it was better to teach stall avoidance and leave the spins
alone. No stall = no spin. Spin and unusual attitude maneuver recovery
should be learned, but probably should only be taught in a suitably equipped
airplane by experienced instructors.
Deke
S5, NE Mich
do not archive
>snip... Plus from what I was told there were more training crashes years
>ago when it was included...
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
On Oct 31, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Rexinator wrote:
> Michel, the link below addresses the formula and states it to be 1.41
> x Vs (the published straight level flight stall), but you are close
> enough.
Yes Rex, but I prefer to remember it as I wrote it: The square root of
the Gs.
1.4, 1.41 or 1.414213562373 are all the square root of two, but at
different resolutions.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
I'm not following the comments regarding "stall avoidance". I taught stall avoidance
but I was also taught stall recovery as well as "falling leaf" stalls and
unusual attitude recovery. If I remember right, I had to demonstrate a stall
recovery for my check ride. Is this not typical?
> I read the same thing. Too many students AND instructors were dying by either
practicing or demonstrating spins. Feds decided that, in their profound wisdom,
it was better to teach stall avoidance and leave the spins alone.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142981#142981
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
Ok i recall talking about stalls and spins last year so I looked it up.
Here you go this will save me from typing it all in again :)
Cheers
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=12156
dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good info there Dave.
I have had spin training and I am not sure why it is not part of every
flight test anymore.
In Canada you only have to demonstrate spins for commerical and instructor
rating.
Private pilot license you used to have to as well. Why not now ? I have no
idea.
Personally I think all pilots should be tested on their flight reviews and
on flight tests the following,
Stalls,(stall on take off and approach) Spins ( fully developed) , Spirals,
unusual attitudes and alot of slow fight.
And of course recovery from all the above.
And how about turning final at approach speed and going inverted ? There
are deaths from the above every year that could be prevented.
Dave
dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest
Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wake turbulence is one way but you usually have enough separation on final
.( I did have this one during IFR training under the hood) One scenario is
if one was on base turning final and you are tight and wide. So you add
more rudder and get more turn and more bank and use opposite aileron to
lessen the bank and you are low and give aft stick then see what happens
before you splat into ground.
I land nearly fully stalled in Kitfox every time on grass, pavement snow,ice
or water. I will take a high glideslope if landing behind a heavy and land
beyond their touchdown. In Kitfox I rarely get behind heavies though. I
most likely fly through my own wake turbulence more than anyone elses when
horsing around
And dead stick landings , certainly another good thing to learn. If you
have not done any well you have not learnt yet. It can happen at anytime.
i.e. bird strike,engine out , prop failure etc. Failure to leave your
self an out will not leave you an "out" .
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142989#142989
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
on talk off stalls and spins i added this ..........
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50426#50426
Too many thread on same topic ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142990#142990
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
For check ride, stalls are required, spins are not.
----- Original Message ----
From: wingnut <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:02:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stalls and Spins
I'm not following the comments regarding "stall avoidance". I taught stall avoidance
but I was also taught stall recovery as well as "falling leaf" stalls and
unusual attitude recovery. If I remember right, I had to demonstrate a stall
recovery for my check ride. Is this not typical?
> I read the same thing. Too many students AND instructors were dying by either
practicing or demonstrating spins. Feds decided that, in their profound wisdom,
it was better to teach stall avoidance and leave the spins alone.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142981#142981
__________________________________________________
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
yes but why not spins?
Ludicrous to think that it is safer to NOT be able to demonstrate spin recovery.
From the news relases on Kitfox alone in the last few months it pretty evident
that Kitfox pilots are still stalling and stall spinning them to the ground
so what did the check ride prove anyhow ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142992#142992
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
On Oct 31, 2007, at 9:35 PM, dave wrote:
> yes but why not spins?
Dave, before I bought my Kitfox, I did two spins in my instructor's
aircraft, a Rans S6. The idea was to teach me how a spin develops and
how to prevent it. At both occasions he asked me to get into a very
tight left turn, then yelled: pull the stick, pull the stick! We went
over end, I saw the sky, the earth, the sky, the earth and then he
pulled us out of it. I didn't feel it coming and I was unable to
recover from it. All I learnt was: Don't push the envelope, things
happen all in a sudden!
> From the news relases on Kitfox alone in the last few months it pretty
> evident that Kitfox pilots are still stalling and stall spinning them
> to the ground
That is correct. There are two ways to avoid a spin: a) learn to
recover from it and b) don't put yourself in a situation where it may
happen. I don't have to stomach for it so I follow rule b)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
PS: If you feel like making a video of a spin, I'd love to see it,
Dave, but please: be careful!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: need King Fox rims |
Thank You Kevin 4 the info on rims..all so I have a KF2,, how wide is
the King Fox tires.,if they are on the plane..how wide are they??I am
building a trailer and I need to know befor I start to build it.I need
to know if it will fit my trailer.I need to know from out side of tire
to the orther out side of the orther tire.how wide does the KF sit on
the king fox tires??? thanks Steve shinabery N554KF KF2
Kevin Ridsdale wrote:
> Steve,
> Matco makes rims complete with brakes for the 8" King fox tires The
> cost is $600.00 contact Matco directly at www.matcomfg.com
> <http://www.matcomfg.com>
> The model number is MHE8B. It uses and external caliper brake that is
> rated at 2200 in-lb at 450 psi. It uses 1.25 inch tapered roller
> bearings and each wheel is rated at 750 lb static load with a 3 G
> overload ultimate load.
>
> Kevin R
> MiPPi
> */Steve Shinabery <shinco@bright.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> I am needing a set of King Fox Rims.to fit my new tires from Dave
> Fisher.does any one have a set that I could buy?or know where I could
> get a set..please contact me Steve shinabery email me off line at
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 19
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Guys, My plane was to originally be constructed as a model 4 1050 long wing.
The builder of the plane built it to be a speedwing version. I'm new to the
whole kitfox thing and my book shows the v speeds for the longwing version.
Can anybody point me in the direction of a site where I can copy them ???
Steve Bennett
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
Darinh
I used a piece of the sticky back foam tape (1" x 0.1"). The same stuff
that comes with the kit to seal the windshield. Could not go thicker as I
had already drilled the mounting holes. Have not test flown yet so can't
report on results.
Vic
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp 95%
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:42 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal?
>
> What is everyone using to seal the joint between the upper and sides of
> the boot cowl (cowl bonnet) to the firewall? I did not install any
> firewall blanket or insulation as I didn't want that on the engine side of
> the firewall and with the toe box, it was a bit of a paint to get in
> properly not to mention trying to work around all the penetrations. I do
> want to "seal" the joint between the upper lip and sides of the boot cowl
> though and was wondering what is the best material to use?
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142967#142967
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
Darin,
I used a u shaped rubber seal ( 1/16x3/16x3/8) inch on the firewall it self,
then a one inch wide foam one sided strip on the cowl. They come together
when the cowl is installed
John Oakley
At Ogden when you want to see it
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal?
Darinh
I used a piece of the sticky back foam tape (1" x 0.1"). The same stuff
that comes with the kit to seal the windshield. Could not go thicker as I
had already drilled the mounting holes. Have not test flown yet so can't
report on results.
Vic
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp 95%
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:42 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal?
>
> What is everyone using to seal the joint between the upper and sides of
> the boot cowl (cowl bonnet) to the firewall? I did not install any
> firewall blanket or insulation as I didn't want that on the engine side of
> the firewall and with the toe box, it was a bit of a paint to get in
> properly not to mention trying to work around all the penetrations. I do
> want to "seal" the joint between the upper lip and sides of the boot cowl
> though and was wondering what is the best material to use?
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (under Construction)
> 914 Turbo
> Ogden, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142967#142967
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: temporary removal |
Dear Administrator,
Please forgive my ignorance in not remembering the proper way to be
temporarily removed from the list. Please do so for me now and restore me on
December 20th. I will be traveling for that period of time.
If you would do this for me I would sure appreciate it.
Thanks for everything, Ron Liebmann N55KF
Message 23
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| Subject: | First video attempt |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyMeRy0h8A
Close to 20 hrs on my kitfox now. Seems to fly great and I'm having a
ball. I'll try to post some pictures soon as well as more video. This
is my first attempt.
Kevin Cozik
kitfox 6-7
914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing MI
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: First video attempt |
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Cozik
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: First video attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyMeRy0h8A
Close to 20 hrs on my kitfox now. Seems to fly great and I'm having a
ball. I'll try to post some pictures soon as well as more video. This
is my first attempt.
Kevin Cozik
kitfox 6-7
914 turbo
Czech amphibs
Lansing MI
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: First video attempt |
Looks great! Gonna need skis soon. : )
Steve
Kitfox 5 912UL
Milford, Mi
Hangered @ Howell OZW
On 10/31/07, Kevin Cozik <Kcozik@cablespeed.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyMeRy0h8A
> Close to 20 hrs on my kitfox now. Seems to fly great and I'm having a
> ball. I'll try to post some pictures soon as well as more video. This is
> my first attempt.
> Kevin Cozik
> kitfox 6-7
> 914 turbo
> Czech amphibs
> Lansing MI
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: First video attempt |
Message 27
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Steve sez:
>I'm new to the whole kitfox thing and my book shows the v speeds for
>the longwing version. Can anybody point me in the direction of a
>site where I can copy them ?
I think you would be better off figuring out what they are for your
airplane yourself. Because they are not coming off an assembly line,
every Kitfox will be a little bit different from every other and
there will also be idiosyncrasies in the pitot/static system and
airspeed indicator. I could tell you my numbers but they may or may
not apply to your airplane. If you measure your own you'll be sure
that they are numbers you can count on.
Vso and Vsi are pretty easy to determine, just do some stalls with
and without flaps deployed. Vy will require measuring climb rates at
several speeds to determine where the maximum rate happens (it's best
to measure the rate with the altimeter and a stopwatch rather than
relying on the VSI). Vx will require a little math to determine the
point at which the highest climb per distance traveled occurs (take a
bunch of measurements and do the calculations back at the hangar).
Best glide speed can be determined in the same way as Vy, by
measuring sink rate at several speeds. Vy is a reasonable place to
start looking for glide speed.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Accelerated stalls |
Rex sez:
>...from what I was told there were more training crashes years ago
>when [spinning] was included.
When I went to get my tail wheel endorsement I started flying with a
very old fella in an Aeronca Champ. The first time I talked to him
he said, "Well, first we'll get you familiar with the plane, go out
and do some stalls and spins, then come back and work on landing and
taking off."
I told him one of my instructors had demonstrated one once but that I
had never done a spin myself.
He said, "You will today!" And we did. A whole bunch of them. It
was great fun, actually.
When I finished my Kitfox and had run through the gamut of power-on
and power-off stalls I decided it was time to spin it. My short-wing
Model IV would only spin if you held the stick full aft and kept
rudder into the turn. If you relaxed either it would accelerate into
a spiral dive. Even then, I could only get it to stay in for about
3/4 turn before it accelerated to flying speed on its own.
I think this was because it didn't have enough elevator authority to
keep it at stall speed. It was difficult to get a power-on stall to
happen at all because it would run out of up elevator--you had to
pull it sharply up to get a break to occur.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls and Spins |
At 01:35 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>yes but why not spins?
>
>Ludicrous to think that it is safer to NOT be able to demonstrate
>spin recovery. From the news relases on Kitfox alone in the last
>few months it pretty evident that Kitfox pilots are still stalling
>and stall spinning them to the ground so what did the check ride
>prove anyhow ?
I believe the additional reason spins were dropped by the FAA was
that the only people being killed by spins were those so close to the
ground that the spin was considered "unrecoverable", meaning they hit
in less than one turn. Most modern span cans will recover if you
simply let go of everything, though some will exceed Vne if left to
their own devices through the pull-out, and all will use a bunch of
altitude. (Twins are the exception to this rule. You NEVER spin a
twin.) Since no amount of spin training will save you from a low
altitude spin, the FAA's logic was to concentrate on awareness and
avoidance. Unfortunately, in my experience this flight regime was
taught very poorly, and I was left to my own devices to figure it
out. (Aerobatic training helped as well.) Once I figured it out it
made perfect sense and has proved useful on several occasions.
Accelerated stalls are much more insidious. I believe Leonard when he
says people regularly die from them. Unfortunately, with some
aircraft avoidance is your only option, no amount of training will
allow you to recover once you've stalled and spun at low altitude. I
am reminded of time I spent doing accelerated stalls in the
Decathlon. If you were going fast and the turn was wide you could
pull hard and get a nice, clean, even stall which was recovered
simply by relaxing back pressure. However if the turn was tight and
somewhat slow you got a spin every time. (Like it would be if you
pulled hard, base to final.) If you went over the top it was easy to
recover. However if you spun out the bottom you were on your back in
a flash with a guaranteed E-ticket ride. The difference was, of
course, determined by the rudder, but the Decathlon liked to tuck
under because of the slow inside wing.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
At 11:42 AM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>What is everyone using to seal the joint between the upper and sides
>of the boot cowl (cowl bonnet) to the firewall?
Well, when I finished this area I took the possibility of fire very
seriously. I did not want a seal that would turn into fumes, then
rapidly disappear when hit by flame, thereby allowing heat into the
cockpit. I therefore built two 45 degree 1/2" by 1/2" flanges which I
riveted onto either side of the firewall. I then filled the space
between the flanges with 3M's intumescent putty. When flamed this
putty expands and chars, sealing the opening against high
temperatures. Since the putty never hardens I re-form it each time I
pull the cowl. Occasionally I replace it altogether. The putty is
used in the construction industry so it is readily available.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: temporary removal |
At 06:08 PM 10/31/2007, you wrote:
>Dear Administrator,
>
>Please forgive my ignorance in not remembering the proper way to be
>temporarily removed from the list. Please do so for me now and
>restore me on December 20th. I will be traveling for that period of time.
>
>If you would do this for me I would sure appreciate it.
We'll mod your subscription for you, and will offer a refresher for
you and everyone.
1. Go to http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
2. Enter your email address in the box under "List Subscriptions" on
the left sidebar.
3. Select "Find" below that box.
4. Click "Execute"
5. The box will reform with all of your Matronics subscriptions checked.
6. Simply check and un-check what you want to change.
7. Then select "Subscription" under the address box and click "Execute".
8. For your safety, the Matronics server will then send you an email,
asking you to confirm the modification to your subscription. Replying
to this email will confirm the modifications.
That's it!
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
Guy,
I to am looking for something that is somewhat fire resistant. I have thought
of foam sealing tape but the is definitely not fire resistant and like you said
will put off some nasty fumes. I am toying with the idea of making a gasket
out of Hi-temp RTV. Basically, the idea is that I would fill the space between
the firewall flange and the boot cowl with a fillet of RTV Silicone. To keep
the RTV from sticking to the cowl, I will put a layer of packaging tape and
wipe a liberal coat of paste wax (mold release) over it. I have used packaging
tape and wax many times to serve as a parting material and it works pretty
good...I must admit though, I have yet to try this with RTV which is pretty sticky,
gooey stuff.
If this works well, I think it will provide a good pliable seal that will stay
intact up to about 625 degrees F or so.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143088#143088
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: First video attempt |
Kevin,
Looks awesome! I received my 914 last Friday and your video makes me wish mine
was flying right now!
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143089#143089
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Boot Cowl to Firewall Seal? |
Darin sez:
>...I am toying with the idea of making a gasket out of Hi-temp
>RTV...If this works well, I think it will provide a good pliable
>seal that will stay intact up to about 625 degrees F or so.
How much heat can the cowling take?
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
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