---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/12/07: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:32 AM - Re: Need Opinions! (dave) 2. 02:34 AM - Re: Stalls and Spins (dave) 3. 02:41 AM - Re: uncoordinated turns (dave) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: NSI turbo to non turbo (Rick) 5. 08:04 AM - Re: Need Opinions! (Napier, Mark) 6. 09:43 AM - Re: Need Opinions! (wingnut) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] S5 NSI Inverted? Deke (Perkins, Mike) 8. 10:41 AM - Landing short (again) - Was Need Opinions! (Marco Menezes) 9. 10:44 AM - Re: Need Opinions! (kitfoxmike) 10. 11:28 AM - Re: Landing short (again) - Was Need Opinions! (kitfoxmike) 11. 06:30 PM - Re: NSI turbo to non turbo(no info in this mail) (A Smith) 12. 10:07 PM - Re: uncoordinated turns (rudderdancer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:19 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "dave" > Do you have any places to land near your runway that you can use in an emergency? 700 ft doesn't leave much room to get back down if the motor burps on takeoff. I'm in a similar boat; About 1400 ft but with 30ft trees on both ends. Knowing that I can land at that cow pasture off the end of the runway adds alot to my comfort factor. I can clear 50 foot obstacle in 500 feet of runway solo. Dual I would need about 200 to 300 to break ground alone plus another 300 to 400 to clear a 50 foot obstacle and that is leaving no room for error. Landing over 50' obstacle I can manage 1000' at best nut no margin for error. all these figures are based from 1000 ASL on standard day, stir in some density altitude and you will add more space required. Always leave your self an out !! -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145321#145321 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:26 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Stalls and Spins From: "dave" another plane , not a Kitfox but a Titan dives from 30 feet........... STALL? most likely........ http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/11/plane_crash_pilot_identified.html Witnesses saw Henriksen's Titan Tornado plane take off from McMinnville Municipal Airport just before 4 p.m. It climbed 30 feet into the air before diving nose-first to the ground, -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145322#145322 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: uncoordinated turns From: "dave" > I have a model II and I've been working to regain my skills out at a local dry lake. I too have noticed the different yaw and coordination traits of the Kitfox. Jack, it sound like your are just noticing more effort that you might be used to of co-ordinating your feet and hands. Your Kitfox 2 has no aileron differential built in so you will be more prone to more adverse yaw. It is likely very manageable as you learn to fly it. I think John Mc Bean might sell a kit to make aileron differential on your Model 2. Model IV up had it already built in and makes a better flying Kitfox in my opinion. That being said the Kitfox 2 is a far superior flying plane to many other brands that are very popular. adding more vert stab might help but I doubt it will do a whole lot for you alone. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145324#145324 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:56 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: NSI turbo to non turbo If you are interested I have several EA-81 Turbo blocks and many engine parts. Deke is absolutely correct about the two similar but very different blocks. The lifter bores are also sleeved in the turbo block and different push rods. Give me a private email and or call. I went through quite a evolution with my turbo EA-81. IMHO the weakest link is the valves in the turbo set up. I can also sent you some pics. Good luck. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI turbo to non turbo Even though they're both EA81 engine blocks, there are many differences, including pistons, and lifters. The turbo has lower compression pistons and hydraulic lifters, vs the normal asp has solid lifters and high compression pistons. Cam is also different as well as the pan, and several other things. Making a swap might be the better way to go. I'm not sure what you mean by the readers digest version, or did you mean condensed? Did you attach something? I received nothing here. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: A Smith Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: NSI turbo to non turbo Here is the readers digest version. I think that with the weight and drag reduction of removing the turbo there will not be that much reduction if any in performance. So I am going out to the group for input on how and what I will need to do. Or find some one that wants to swap all or part of the install. Albert 5TD NSI and CAP href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:52 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "Napier, Mark" The main problem with that 700ft is landing, not taking off. With 20 deg. of flap clearing the fence is no problem. The Kitfox will land that short but the wind and approach speed has to be nailed to do it. It's very easy to put your wheels down a little too fast and not be able to stop floating/bouncing and eat up a short strip. Then that 4 foot fence is waiting for you on the other end if you don't go-around quick enough. My experience is that I can bring it in at 50 mph with flaps and power; yank the power off and drop it down hard and brake to a stop in under 300ft. I can't do it repeatedly. It's easy to float. I don't think I could currently land into a 700ft with 100% confidence and certainly not with a passenger. Problem is our strip is 2400 usable with an uphill portion to it. It works well as I can just slip down to the bottom of it and 3-point land and then gravity does the rest. The trees nicely block cross winds as well. It does make me lazy so I have to practice at other strips to keep current. Others may have better technique. FWIW, Mark Napier N246DR KFIII 582 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "wingnut" Do you have any places to land near your runway that you can use in an emergency? 700 ft doesn't leave much room to get back down if the motor burps on takeoff. I'm in a similar boat; About 1400 ft but with 30ft trees on both ends. Knowing that I can land at that cow pasture off the end of the runway adds alot to my comfort factor. > the best runway I can arrange is going to only be about 700. However, I wont have any obstacles on either end to clear except a 4 fence. The terrain is flat and sparsely populated. -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145220#145220 - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:20 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "wingnut" I agree as long as the motor is running. If you're motor quits 50ft off the ground when you're 500ft down a 700ft runway then you're going to need some options. Getting back down to the runway you just left won't be one of them. > The main problem with that 700ft is landing, not taking off -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145432#145432 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: [!! SPAM] S5 NSI Inverted? Deke From: "Perkins, Mike" I'm really curious why anyone would want to teach themselves advanced aerobatics. Before aerobatics was developed, pilots had to teach themselves because there was no one to teach them. But many of them paid dearly for it. Those that survived the best learned from others who'd succeeded. Isn't that still a good idea today? Falling out of a maneuver and recovering incorrectly can cause the aircraft structural damage with perhaps catastrophic consequences. That's the biggest part of learning aerobatics - to learn to recover gracefully, without bending anything. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:27 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing short (again) - Was Need Opinions! There's always the intentional ground-loop at the end of a hot rollout, just before you get to the fence/trees/ cow or whatever. Scary but effective. Whoa guys . . . I'm just kidding. ;-) do not archive "Napier, Mark" wrote: The main problem with that 700ft is landing, not taking off. With 20 deg. of flap clearing the fence is no problem. The Kitfox will land that short but the wind and approach speed has to be nailed to do it. It's very easy to put your wheels down a little too fast and not be able to stop floating/bouncing and eat up a short strip. Then that 4 foot fence is waiting for you on the other end if you don't go-around quick enough. My experience is that I can bring it in at 50 mph with flaps and power; yank the power off and drop it down hard and brake to a stop in under 300ft. I can't do it repeatedly. It's easy to float. I don't think I could currently land into a 700ft with 100% confidence and certainly not with a passenger. Problem is our strip is 2400 usable with an uphill portion to it. It works well as I can just slip down to the bottom of it and 3-point land and then gravity does the rest. The trees nicely block cross winds as well. It does make me lazy so I have to practice at other strips to keep current. Others may have better technique. FWIW, Mark Napier N246DR KFIII 582 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "wingnut" Do you have any places to land near your runway that you can use in an emergency? 700 ft doesn't leave much room to get back down if the motor burps on takeoff. I'm in a similar boat; About 1400 ft but with 30ft trees on both ends. Knowing that I can land at that cow pasture off the end of the runway adds alot to my comfort factor. > the best runway I can arrange is going to only be about 700. However, I wont have any obstacles on either end to clear except a 4 fence. The terrain is flat and sparsely populated. -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145220#145220 - - - - - Appended by Scientific Atlanta, a Cisco company - - - - - This e-mail and any attachments may contain information which is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise protected by law. The information is solely intended for the named addressee (or a person responsible for delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this message or any part of it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from your computer. Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:26 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Need Opinions! From: "kitfoxmike" Just to let you know. I just did the figuring and found that I can do a stop and go right at 700ft. That is with calm winds, half tanks, solo. My field elevation is right at 2000ft. If I had a 700ft runway, I would be a little worried. Now another food for thought. I have over 1000hrs in my fox, over 6000 landings. I'm just starting to feel comfortable with landing in rough landing areas, meaning short, lots of trees, no outs. Maybe not. I still pucker. -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145448#145448 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:00 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Landing short (again) - Was Need Opinions! From: "kitfoxmike" You mean like, stomp on the left rudder-brake, and when it's headed the other way, hit the power. Woooooha! ya baby! -------- kitfoxmike model IV, 1200 speedster 912ul building RV7a slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying enough" Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145460#145460 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:34 PM PST US From: "A Smith" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: NSI turbo to non turbo(no info in this mail) Do not archive Rick I would take any info and pics you have. Are you running the turbo now? I do not have your email or phone. Albert Smith kitfow@ida.net 5TD, NSI turbo, CAP ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:49 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: uncoordinated turns From: "rudderdancer" Kitfoxmike, MikeG, and Dave, Thanks for the replies. Attached is a picture of a Maule M-5 with the type of vertical I was referring to. By the way, I went out to the dry lake again this afternoon for practice. It's getting a bit better each time. Even the landings went better. The fox really does get off the ground quickly and climbs out steeply. Regards, Jack Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145594#145594 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/maule_m_5_485.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.