Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (Michel Verheughe)
2. 06:04 AM - Wing Strut Fairings (fly2wb@dishmail.net)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (John W. Hart)
4. 07:14 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (Michael Gibbs)
5. 07:30 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (Michel Verheughe)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (kitfoxmike)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (aerobatics@aol.com)
8. 11:55 AM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
9. 12:18 PM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (kitfoxmike)
10. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: IFR in a kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (kitfoxmike)
12. 04:56 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Mnflyer)
13. 08:45 PM - O-320 (rich smith)
14. 09:12 PM - Re: IFR in a kitfox (Michael Gibbs)
15. 11:33 PM - Re: O-320 (darinh)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
On Nov 23, 2007, at 3:43 AM, Rexinator wrote:
> To me the wonderful thing about flying is learning to use so many
> aspects, physical, technical, mental and emotional in just the right
> way that can make a successful flight so rewarding. I eventually
> learned to enjoy the challenge to practice and perfect any mundane
> aspect of flying.
> Keep learning and practicing.
Well said, Rex! Whenever I fly, I try to learn from it. Flying under
VFR rule with simulated IMC conditions is good training. A cheap
solid-state turn coordinator can be a life saver. But we shouldn't
forget that under real IMC and resulting stress, our brain has a
reduced capacity to achieve correctly a number of tasks. That's what a
learnt at an aviation safety conference in Germany.
Flying in a mountainous country, we are told of the danger to be in a
valley that suddenly closes with a fog bank or low laying stratus
clouds. In that case, there is very little to do but try to go as
quickly as possible through it. But I would never be on the ground and
plan a flight involving a possible IMC penetration. That would be
foolish.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wing Strut Fairings |
Hey John,
Have you guys been able to come up with the new lightweight wood wing
strut fairings yet or are you still using the old plastic ones.
Need to put some on my plane sometime but hesitant to use my plastic ones
if the new ones are lighter.
Brad
Wichita
5-lyc
Flying
do not archive
Message 3
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In a properly equipped aircraft, with the pilot(s) properly trained, a
takeoff in zero-zero wx is a non-event. It has been done countless times in
helicopters. The big problem that I found in the helicopters I flew was
limited flight time due to fuel capacity to reach a suitable alternate
airport if one was required. One hour and 30 minutes at 90 knots is not a
long distance if widespread IMC exists, or bucking a 40 knot headwind. To
takeoff and climb through a low cloud deck on the gauges in a properly
equipped aircraft for a properly trained pilot is rather mundane. The same
applies to executing an approach procedure at destination, but it can get
rather exciting when instruments fail, or weather turns out to be not as
forecast, either enroute or at destination.
The biggest problems I have seen with weather in single engine aircraft is
the lack of adequate deicing equipment. I know of an instance when in a
Cessna 310 with electric prop deicing equipment and inflatable wing leading
edge boots could not maintain altitude due to airframe icing. Another
instance was in a Cessna 170 below the clouds over the Alaska Range. It
accumulated so much ice from freezing rain that it could not maintain
altitude with full throttle. Fortunately, in both instances, the air was
warm enough below that enough ice was shed during the forced descent to
avoid to ground impact.
John Hart
Wilburton, OK
Model IV, Subaru Engine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: IFR in a kitfox
Well said, Rex! Whenever I fly, I try to learn from it. Flying under
VFR rule with simulated IMC conditions is good training. A cheap
solid-state turn coordinator can be a life saver. But we shouldn't
forget that under real IMC and resulting stress, our brain has a
reduced capacity to achieve correctly a number of tasks. That's what a
learnt at an aviation safety conference in Germany.
Flying in a mountainous country, we are told of the danger to be in a
valley that suddenly closes with a fog bank or low laying stratus
clouds. In that case, there is very little to do but try to go as
quickly as possible through it. But I would never be on the ground and
plan a flight involving a possible IMC penetration. That would be
foolish.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
Michel sez:
>But I would never be on the ground and plan a flight involving a
>possible IMC penetration. That would be foolish.
Always remember the old saying, "It's better to be on the ground
wishing you were flying than to be flying and wishing you were on the
ground." :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
On Nov 23, 2007, at 3:57 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
> The biggest problems I have seen with weather in single engine
> aircraft is
> the lack of adequate deicing equipment.
Good point, John. I know two Dutch friends who were to fly to Italy in
their Cessna Cardinal a couple of years ago. The aircraft is full IFR
instrumented and they are both licensed and trained. Yet they cancelled
the trip. They said that the 0-isotherm ceiling was too low over
southern Belgium to make a safe passage. Better safe than sorry, isn't
it?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
PS: we call 0-isotherm the freezing point in Europe as it is in
centigrade. I guess you say something else in Fahrenheit land. :-)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
This is my take on this subject. Will I ever fly IMC, don't know, I will do my
best to stay out of it. I'm planning on the same panel as in my kitfox for the
RV, minimum VFR, with a hand held 496 with weather. That way I can see what
to stay away from. If I can't fly it, I land.
I think the best thing a person can do for any situation is to fly. I mean fly,
not do what is comfortable for you, but work on things that are not comfortable.
I do touch and go's all the time, I don't do standard cessna approaches,
I mix things up and do shorties, last minutes changes and go onto another runway,
or do a multiple of touches on one runway. Why? so I can enter the final
at any given time and still land the airplane.
The other day there was so much traffic in the pattern that the controller, knowing
what I can do, asked if I could do a short approach with another airplane
about 3 miles out, I said not a problem, I turned in abeam the numbers and dove
down from 800agl. I was turning final over the numbers at 90mph, so I allowed
myself to do a 60degree banking turn to slow down with an uncoordinated low
wing with rudder(kind of like a landing for a strong cross wind) while leveled
over the runway, why to slow her down some more, I finally made 55mph and straighted
the airplane and touched down on the wheels, then slowly lowered the
tail, a perfect landing, then went off the runway at the second taxi way. Way
cool and was fun. I didn't slow anybody down and by the time I got on the taxiway
for taxi to the hanger there where 3 birds ahead of me, follow the leader.
If you want to be good at what you are doing, than get up in the air and quit talking
about it on the ground. Proficiency is the key. practice practice practice,
it makes for perfection. know your bird, I don't care if you have a Kitfox
or a Cirrus. If you don't know it, it will be unsafe. What makes a safe
airplane isn't the airplane, it's the one flying it.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148063#148063
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
there are many options here.... one thing for sure, adding fairings
makes a huge difference. I simply faired balsa behind the tube only,
then fiberglassed, then filled and painted. Took some time but felt
well worth the effort.... any questions on my method will be glad to
help ...
Dave
________________________________________________________________________
http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
Been there, done that, and the entry in my logbook reads: "Scariest
flight yet...don't do this again." Here's what happened:
I was heading down to Benton Harbor, Michigan for a pancake b'fast,
when I decided to tune into the ATIS for BEH...they reported fog and
a ceiling of about 800 feet, so I went into Dowagiac and waited to
see what happened. Well, the fog got closer to the field I was at,
and I decided to get out of there and head for home. By the time I
started up and taxied to the takeoff end of the field, 04, I think it
was, the fog had moved over the north end of the field, but I took
off, thinking that I knew how thick this fog bank was, and could just
punch my way through it. Well, I got to looking too much at the
ground that I had just left, and when I couldn't see it any more, I
looked at the gauges and my turn coordinator showed me in a severe
right bank. Knowing I should not just slam the stick over the other
way, I just gradually eased it over to the left, but it didn't seem
like the position of the "wings" changed much. I was climbing
alright, so I just kept steadily increasing pressure to the left with
the stick, and eventually came out of the fog bank, but I was heading
about 260 degrees away from where I started out. I think my right
foot reverted back to race car days and was flat on the floor with
the rudder pedal under it. The sky was the most beautiful blue I've
ever seen, and I made a HUGE heading correction and headed back east
for home...with the thoughts of making room in my panel for a
artificial horizon...and NOT so I could do this stupid stunt again,
but to give me a better chance if I did happen to have another brain
far.....er, make that another brain lapse.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/420+ hrs
do not archive
On Nov 23, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Michel sez:
>
>> But I would never be on the ground and plan a flight involving a
>> possible IMC penetration. That would be foolish.
>
> Always remember the old saying, "It's better to be on the ground
> wishing you were flying than to be flying and wishing you were on
> the ground." :-)
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
sorry lynn,
But I would have stayed on the ground and grabbed my phone and called the wife
and said something like this, see you tomorrow I'm stuck in...
I fly for fun and there isn't anything that would cause me to stick my neck out
for.
Seems you found this out on your own, but IMC in not something to put your guard
down on.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148110#148110
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
That's my problem, kitfoxmike....no wife to call, so I HAD to fly out
of there.....kidding of course, and I think I learned a good lesson
at a possible VERY high price if it hadn't turned out the way it did.
Lynn
do not archive
On Nov 23, 2007, at 3:18 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:
> <customtrans@qwest.net>
>
> sorry lynn,
>
> But I would have stayed on the ground and grabbed my phone and
> called the wife and said something like this, see you tomorrow I'm
> stuck in...
>
> I fly for fun and there isn't anything that would cause me to stick
> my neck out for.
>
> Seems you found this out on your own, but IMC in not something to
> put your guard down on.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> building
> RV7a
> slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
> "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then
> you're not flying enough"
> Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148110#148110
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
Totally understand,
The thing is, the wife would have been with me, anytime I go out of town, she's
in the right seat. So we would have stayed there and made the best of it. My
wife is an excellent right seater and she wouldn't have let me take off in the
first place. She keeps me in line.
Every year we make planes for Arlington, but we don't put it in stone, we wait
until the last minute to make concrete plans of when we leave. You see we have
to go through the mountains pass to get to the other side of Washington. This
year we were able to do it. When we left, we were a little concerned because
the cloud level was low. The pass level at stevens is I think about 3600ft
and at snoquami is around 3000. There was a group of about 7 kitfoxes that were
leaving out and they were bent on going through stevens, I took off before
them and was planing snoquami because I had a report from Boeing field that the
cloud level was at 4200ft and I was told by a smart pilot out of Wenatchee
that if the cloud level was reported at Boeing Field that would be the case at
the pass for snoquami. So off I went for the other pass. As I flew along I
could see the clouds where pretty low through stevens and was glad I was going
to snoquami. I made my turn and flew through snoquami and had good visibility
through the pass. I later heard that the boys that went through stevens pass
had to pretty much scud run it. I'm still glad today that I made my decision
the way I did. If things would have been worse I would have flown down to portland
and than up to spokane.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148116#148116
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Hi Dave I am interested in how you did your strut fairings, I've purchased balsa
to do my struts but haven't started so any help / pointers would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks GB
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148126#148126
Message 13
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Will an 0-320 work on a series 5. Rich
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: IFR in a kitfox |
Lynn sez:
>Been there, done that, and the entry in my logbook reads: "Scariest
>flight yet...don't do this again."
I love that, Lynn! Maybe I should write that next to the logbook
entry for my accident. :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 15
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You would probably need 40 lbs of lead in the tail and beef up the firewall tubing
and mount. I wouldn't do it but I know that people have. If you are looking
for something like a Kitfox for a O-320 or O-360, look at the Avid Magnum...they
are built for those engines.
There has been much discussion on engines and weight on the list and it seems the
general consensus is that engines heavier than the O-200 and IO-240 are not
good matches for the Fox. Most think that even these engines are on the heavy
side but do seem to be fairly popular.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
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