Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:02 AM - [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:18 AM - Re: Rotax 582 & Oil% (dave)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: Short take off Video (dave)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 & Oil% (Michel Verheughe)
4. 07:20 AM - access cover for oil (jerry evans)
5. 09:32 AM - Rotax 582 & Oil% (Larry Martin)
6. 11:40 AM - Re: access cover for oil (Rexinator)
7. 01:53 PM - Re: access cover for oil (Lynn Matteson)
8. 03:02 PM - Re: access cover for oil (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
9. 03:05 PM - taxy with the wings folded (vetdrem)
10. 04:06 PM - Re: access cover for oil (Noel R. C. Loveys)
11. 04:17 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (Noel R. C. Loveys)
12. 05:04 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded ()
13. 05:13 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (LarryM)
14. 05:36 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (Tom Jones)
15. 05:50 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (Ted Palamarek)
16. 08:46 PM - Re: access cover for oil (Guy Buchanan)
17. 08:46 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (Guy Buchanan)
18. 09:20 PM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (Michael Gibbs)
19. 11:45 PM - Re: Re: taxy with the wings folded (Michel Verheughe)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
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connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
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assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
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As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
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But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
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Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
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Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 & Oil% |
> I immediately reduced power, went into a gently dive and made a emergency landing
on my airfield. During descent, I saw the water temp
> becoming normal (85C).
>
> It was obvious that the temp was a direct result of too much tape over the radiator.
But was caused the engine to cough ? Was it the high temperature ? Is
it the oil mixture ?
>
> Somebody can help me ?
>
> Greetz,
> Michel
>
>
Normal temps are not 85C - that Is getting into the "caution area" of a 582
( 80C to 90C - 176 to 200F ) You can run at 180 without issues but
it leave little room for error. You were running at 240 F (115C ) WAY
TOO HOT........ 70% of RAD covered? I would rather see 70% of Rad open on
a stock Kitfox Rad...... ( 4" b y 20" = 80 sq inches)
Why you smell molten plastic ? Did you find anything melted ? Likely not but
that Engine was telling to it was VERY HOT.
You never said was your outside air temp was ?
You never said what kind of oil you used ?
Mixture on Pre mix should be 50 to 1 = 2%
Oil injected engines will run leaner than that over all - BUT they supply oil
with demand .. eg full throttle = about 50 to 1 mix but at reduced throttle
you might run 70 to 1........ If you try to skimp on oil ratio then it is
possible you will not have enough oil under full throttle and high load conditions.
I would run some static ground run ups prior to next flight of duration of 2
to 5 minutes at full throttle to make sure you have similar to full load climbout
engine checks. Depending on Prop your static can range from 6000 to
6500. Where were your EGT gauges through alll of this ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148832#148832
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| Subject: | Re: Short take off Video |
Michel - yes it works well.
I am thinking of making a new landing gear similar to the tube gear but extended
about 6 to 10" . Would make the Kitfox look a little more aggressive and likely
get it airbourne quicker. My wings will fly and the tail will be dragging.
One concern is the extra load put on the longerons with a longer gear.
Has anyone tried this?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148833#148833
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 & Oil% |
Michel, I would also check the thermostat. I flew behind a 582 for a couple of
years and I know that the thermostat is easy to access, remove, and test in a
bucket of hot water. See if it opens. Good luck.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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| Subject: | access cover for oil |
Can anyone tell me how to make access hole through the fiberglass for the oil
or where I can buy one to install, this would be for 582 oil injector tank
Jerry Evans
96% done 582
Magalia Calif.
N582'er'
kitfox 555
Message 5
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| Subject: | Rotax 582 & Oil% |
Michel,
Could it be possible that your water temp was not warmed up (150F
ish)( 10 min or so) before you applied power? I'm wondering if you had
a cold seizure where the piston expands quicker than the cylinder and
thus tolerances are reduced. It is important to get the water temp warm
and then let the engine run for several minutes before applying high
power. I personally preheat my water by using a Ski Doo inline water
heater. I find after an hour or so, the water temp is 80+F. I also use
a 160F thermostat for the winter and switch back to the Rotax 135F one
for the summer. The part I use for the winter is "Thermostat 3853799
Bombardier Evinrude Johnson". I no longer tape up the radiator, as this
thermostat will keep temps 160-175F with the rads open. Operating as I
do, the engine starts very easy and idles at 2000 rpm nicely. By the
time I taxi to the end of the strip, the water temp is at 160, with the
thermostat open, and away I go. With the inline heater, the engine is
uniformly warm, and the temps raises the rest of the way quite nicely.
The other nice feature is cabin heat is warmer!
I do not understand why one would dilute the oil in the winter. It
is mixed as a percentage and should then burn as a percentage too? If
anything, with the dense air, wouldn't an engine develop more hp and
power and therefore need a bit more? I think that it would be quite
safe to follow the Rotax "air" engine recommendations. I think that
they may be a bit conservative, but then what is the negative
consequence of being conservative? A biker or cart racer can optimize
an engine for the time, and day, but the weather conditions are more
constant for that racer. On the other hand, how many times do you start
in the morning, and by afternoon, it is 20 degrees warmer? I think that
is why the "air" engines are jetted cooler than normal and so on. We
trade efficiency for "margin of operations".
I would check for piston scoring by removing the exhaust manifold and
checking with a flashlight. The cold temps will drastically affect the
rpm too, as the air is heavier and the engine works more to achieve that
rpm. I believe that we still develop full hp. due to a lower density
altitude as these cold temps. I had been concerned about the daily
differences when I started with a 2 stroke. In that first year or two,
I journalized all my engine parameters, temps, etc so I could see
what/when was happening. I can now predict the engine parameters that I
expect to see at a given outside temperature and pressure.
I hope this helps, and your engine did not incur damage.
larry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: access cover for oil |
I have one that was installed my model 2, I think it once was an option
from Skystar so not available that way. Perhaps John McBean can advise.
Mine is nothing more than a standard access door from some manufacturer
that came with instuctions on how to cut out the cowling and install.
It's flat and does not match the curve of the cowl, but it works well.
If you could find a source for a suitable door it wouldn't be too hard
to figure out the installation. I'd be happy to take pictures of mine
and copy the instructions when I get home Sunday.
Meanwhile, I found this for a Rans. Looks like it could work and it's
very reasonably priced.
http://www.shoprans.com/proddetail.asp?prod=KPCW0026
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
jerry evans wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how to make access hole through the fiberglass
> for the oil or where I can buy one to install, this would be for 582
> oil injector tank
>
> Jerry Evans
> 96% done 582
> Magalia Calif.
> N582'er'
> kitfox 555
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: access cover for oil |
After two attempts to get an oil access door for my Skyfox cowl for
my Kitfox, (one didn't fit and the other was a warped piece of
fiberglass) I ended up laying up one of my own. I taped down Saran
Wrap over an area of the cowl on the mirror side of the oil access
opening, then layers of glass matt, soaked with resin, etc., then
topping the whole pile with another piece of Saran Wrap to provide as
smooth a surface as possible. This way the curvature of the door
nearly matches the contour of the cowl. The cowl already had the
recessed opening to accept the door that I made. If you don't already
have the recess, you can cut an opening to suit yourself, then
fiberglass a recessed lip under that area, and possibly use the cut-
out piece as the door. There will of course be some finishing
required to make a nice fit and smooth surface.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
> jerry evans wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me how to make access hole through the
>> fiberglass for the oil or where I can buy one to install, this
>> would be for 582 oil injector tank
>>
>> Jerry Evans
>> 96% done 582
>> Magalia Calif.
>> N582'er'
>> kitfox 555
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | access cover for oil |
My Avid cowl for the Jabiru engine came with the opening and recessed lip,
but no door. I cut out a piece of .060 aluminum that fit the opening plus
s I left two tabs that went into two slots on the front edge of the reccess
lip (the tabs have a bit of a S bend in them) on the back end of the doo
r, I put one camlock to hold it in place. It works for me. If you want it
to be out of fiberglass, I would very carefully cut it out about 1/2" bigg
er both ways than you want. Then put some plastic tape on the back side o
f the door (the new fiberglass wont stick to the plastic tape) and tape it
back in place from the top of the cowl. Now you can make a lip out of fibe
rglass resin and cloth that will match the door exactly. Once the fibergla
ss sets you can pop the door off and fasten it how you like. Hope that mad
e sence and you were able to follow me through that.
Kitfox-List: access cover for oilTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com Can anyone
tell me how to make access hole through the fiberglass for the oil or where
I can buy one to install, this would be for 582 oil injector tank
Jerry Evans 96% done 582
Magalia Calif.
N582'er'
kitfox 555
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | taxy with the wings folded |
I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, here goes.
Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make the trip from
my hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if the differential braking
would snap the tail wheel out of the detents and allow turns or not.
Please be kink, I'm sensitive. :)
vetdrem
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148939#148939
Message 10
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| Subject: | access cover for oil |
I'm not too sure what the Kitfox cowls are made from now but for cutting
Kevlar I found the best thing to use was a high speed spin saw. The bit can
be very thin and the opening made around the door can be very thin also.
The spin saw also allows you to make curved corners on the door. Rounding
the corners will reduce the possibility of causing the cowl to crack through
the corners of the door opening. Rivet the hinge for the door in place then
you can tape around the edge of the door or use cling wrap to the bottom of
the door. With the door held in place you can go ahead and glass the lip to
the bottom side of the cowl. One of the nice things about doing this is the
lip you glass in actually reinforces the cowl around the access door.
Finish the job by mounting a Camloc or Dzus fastener to hold the door
closed.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:19 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: access cover for oil
>
>
> After two attempts to get an oil access door for my Skyfox cowl for
> my Kitfox, (one didn't fit and the other was a warped piece of
> fiberglass) I ended up laying up one of my own. I taped down Saran
> Wrap over an area of the cowl on the mirror side of the oil access
> opening, then layers of glass matt, soaked with resin, etc., then
> topping the whole pile with another piece of Saran Wrap to provide as
> smooth a surface as possible. This way the curvature of the door
> nearly matches the contour of the cowl. The cowl already had the
> recessed opening to accept the door that I made. If you don't already
> have the recess, you can cut an opening to suit yourself, then
> fiberglass a recessed lip under that area, and possibly use the cut-
> out piece as the door. There will of course be some finishing
> required to make a nice fit and smooth surface.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/440+ hrs
>
> > jerry evans wrote:
> >
> >> Can anyone tell me how to make access hole through the
> >> fiberglass for the oil or where I can buy one to install, this
> >> would be for 582 oil injector tank
> >>
> >> Jerry Evans
> >> 96% done 582
> >> Magalia Calif.
> >> N582'er'
> >> kitfox 555
> >
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | taxy with the wings folded |
With the extra weight on the tail wheel I personally wouldn't try it. Also
if the tail spring breaks you will also lose your wings.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vetdrem
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:35 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: taxy with the wings folded
>
>
> I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, here
goes.
>
> Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make the trip
from my
> hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if the differential
braking would snap
> the tail wheel out of the detents and allow turns or not.
>
> Please be kink, I'm sensitive. :)
>
> vetdrem
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148939#148939
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
I find this message disturbing. Kitfox.
<<vetdrem>>
<<Please be kinky, I'm sensitive. :)>>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Sandt, Ridgecrest
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
I concur with Noel.
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148964#148964
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
Vetdrem, I'll be kind,
When I think about taxing with the wings folded all kinds of reasons not to come
to mind. The weight on the tail spring is a major deterrent.
I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are obstructions to spreading
the wings? I would invest in a four wheel motorcycle, an old pickup, riding
lawnmower, utility trailer, anything I could set the tail wheel on with
the wings folded and tow it out there.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148975#148975
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| Subject: | taxy with the wings folded |
John
I think what the writer probably meant was ""please be kind I'm sensitive""
meaning that don't flame me as I'm just asking a question that some may
perceive to be a silly.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Hope that helps.
Ted Palamarek
Kitfox IV - 912
Edmonton, Ab
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
josandt@verizon.net
Sent: November 27, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: taxy with the wings folded
I find this message disturbing. Kitfox.
<<vetdrem>>
<<Please be kinky, I'm sensitive. :)>>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Sandt, Ridgecrest
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: access cover for oil |
At 07:19 AM 11/27/2007, you wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how to make access hole through the fiberglass
> for the oil or where I can buy one to install, this would be for
> 582 oil injector tank
Jerry,
It sounds like you got all of the possibilities. Mine was
cut out of the cowl, hinged, and an aluminum lip bonded and riveted
to the inside. Once you cut out the door, clean up it's edge. Install
the aluminum or glass lip below the door and clean up it's edges.
Then wrap the edge of the door with a couple layers of narrowly cut
flash tape and center the door in the opening. Tape the back side
with duct tape. Then fill the cut-out with a resin/micro mixture.
Pull the door, remove the tape, and re-install. Sand the resin/micro
flush and you'll have a nice seam. Attach the door with a short piano
hinge and use a Cessna oil door latch to latch it. (I tried finding
the latch at ACS and via Google and had no luck. I'm sure it's
available after-market. I found a bunch of Cessna parts at
www.broadiesaircraft.com.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
At 03:05 PM 11/27/2007, you wrote:
>I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but,
>here goes.
>
>Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make
>the trip from my hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if
>the differential braking would snap the tail wheel out of the
>detents and allow turns or not.
OMIGAWD, that is the STUPIDEST question I ever heard! I CAN'T believe
you asked it. ;-) (We entertain all questions here, even ones you may
think are stupid. And we frequently give stupid answers. By the way,
I actually didn't think it was a very stupid question. You'll have to
try a lot harder.)
Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only be
able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly careful
because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and fuselage,
but it will taxi just fine. (It won't turn because the flaperons lie
next to the rudder, preventing it, and subsequently the tail wheel,
from turning. You could rig the wings to fold partially to a position
that would allow the rudder full travel and you'd be able to turn.
You'd then just have to deal with the loads issue.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
Guys sez:
>Of course a Kitfox can be taxied with the wings folded.You'll only
>be able to go straight ahead, and you'll want to be exceedingly
>careful because of the excessive load on the tailwheel, wings, and
>fuselage, but it will taxi just fine.
I have to respectfully disagree with my esteemed colleague. I think
trying to taxi a Kitfox with the wings folded is a really, really bad
idea. It seems like a sure-fire way to damage the tail wheel
assembly, at least, and likely the entire airplane since you won't be
able to steer.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
On Nov 28, 2007, at 2:35 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
> I take it that between your hangar and the runway there are
> obstructions to spreading the wings? I would invest in a four wheel
> motorcycle, an old pickup, riding lawnmower, utility trailer, anything
> I could set the tail wheel on with the wings folded and tow it out
> there.
I was once considering folding my wings, not to taxi but to get easier
in the hangar. I thought that the best way to manoeuvre the plane would
then be by building a tail dolly. Imagine a pyramid upside-down, built
in steel or even wood. On the 'top' a free-castoring wheel. On the
'base' two holes in which I put a long bolt that goes in the tube used
for an eventual dorsal fin (at least, on my model 3 - don't know about
other models). The rest of the 'base' is padded to receive the
fuselage.
To put on the dolly, I fix the bolt then lift the tail and the
'pyramid' goes in an upside-down position.
The advantages are: It is easier to fold the wings when the plane is
level; less weight pulling the wings backward. It is then probably
possible to fold and unfold the wings alone. Next, you don't have to
remove the fuel that may leak from having the wing folded.
If one has to taxi that one, one should also consider putting a stopper
on the pedals so that no pressure is put on the rudder while one is
still able to 'steer' by differential braking.
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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