Today's Message Index:
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0. 12:14 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:15 AM - Re: rudder repair (dave)
2. 02:21 AM - Re: kitfox heater (dave)
3. 07:53 AM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (kitfoxmike)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: taxy with the wings folded (n85ae)
5. 11:31 AM - Re: rudder repair (n85ae)
6. 01:47 PM - Re: rudder repair (dave)
7. 02:36 PM - Carb Heat (LarryM)
8. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: rudder repair (Lowell Fitt)
9. 03:05 PM - Re: rudder repair (darinh)
10. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: rudder repair (Lowell Fitt)
11. 05:16 PM - Re: Carb Heat (wingnut)
12. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Carb Heat (john oakley)
13. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: rudder repair (kirk hull)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that means a couple of things. Its my 44th birthday for
one, but I'm trying to forget about that... But, it also means that its that
last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser!
If you been drooling over one of the really sweet free gifts that are available
this year with a qualifying Contribution, then now is the time to jump on one!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution, but just keep putting it off, then
now is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists! Rather than the guy that,
er, ah, forgot (or whatever)... :-)
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this
year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation
a float and I don't ever forget it. Hopefully everyone will feel the same.
The List Contribution page is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
> For TIG ER70S-2 filler is recommended. Post weld annealing is always debated
but I always run a torch over TIGed chromoly.
The proper term is "normalizing" not annealing.
Heat to a dull red and slowly pull torch away. A no draft t shop is critical as
even faster air cooling can cause brittleness.
A good fit is very important for excellent welds. TIG or oxy/acetylene is good
although I do prefer the latter.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149596#149596
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox heater |
I have two planes to make heaters for in the next week.
Both will be exhaust heater with a heat muff. If you want pics , let me know.
One is a 532 and the other is a 503. Actually make that 3 planes as I have a tuned
pipe on my 582 now and my old heater won't work unless I change back to
stock rotax pipe. I will try one for mine too.
Also you can put a scoop or oil bottle on back of rad to get some heat from radiator
but it will not be enough once temps fall below 20.
And a bonus is if you want carb heat and you are using hot air from exhaust heat
muff this is a great time to make it . I only see Bings icing on 582 usually
in the 30 to 35F temp range. I get it several times every year. 503 get
it even less as it does not have a rotary valve and allows some air/fuel mix to
pulse back out of the carb and seems to keep it warmer.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149597#149597
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
vetdrem wrote:
> I sure hope that this isn't viewed as a REALLY stupid question, but, here goes.
>
> Can a Kitfox be taxied with the wings folded? It sure would make the trip from
my hanger to the runway a lot easier. I don't know if the differential braking
would snap the tail wheel out of the detents and allow turns or not.
>
> Please be kink, I'm sensitive. :)
>
> vetdrem
I don't think your are stupid at all, but there is something you might want to
think about. It's the convenience factor.
What do I mean by that. Well, when we do a hobby, or something we like to do very
much. We need to make it as convenient as possible.
Let me give you an example. I love to fish, but my early boat was a pain in the
rear to get into the water, it was a pain to get the fish in the boat. With
fishing I was able to rescue it by buying a nice bass boat. Now I get to the
launch and undo the back straps and brace for the motor, about 1 minute, back
it down and the wife catches and holds the boat. When we leave I go get the
truck back it into the water, the wife gets in the truck and I drive the boat
on the trailer and she drives me out. We stop at the potty, I put on the straps
and brace, by the time cheryl come back out we are ready to go. Total time
in and out, less than 5 minutes.
Now I use to do the snowmobile thing, what a pain, hated putting them on the trailer
and taking them off. I sold the snowmobiles and bought the airplane, best
thing I ever did. Don't even miss the snowmobile thing.
I think if I had to spend all kinds of time removing the fuel, folding the wings,
etc. etc. I think I would loose the Passion for flying the airplane.
My advice, make the flying experience as convenient as possible, goes with repairing
or doing the maintenance. Don't be working on it with a pair of pliers
and a kitchen knife, well you know what I mean. Get the good stuff to work with,
have a tool box and a nice bench in with the airplane to go and grab a tool
or two that you use all the time. Have a setup on the airplane that doesn't
take a bunch of work, after all when you go fly you want to enjoy yourself.
I think the structure can take the wings folded, as long as you are gentle with
it. Question is, how long can you put up with doing this time after time. Pretty
soon you will drudge going to fly your airplane. Lot to be said for throwing
the doors open and pulling the airplane out and go fly.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149641#149641
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| Subject: | Re: taxy with the wings folded |
I changed airports, and hangars to an airport I don't even like simply to
save driving because the few minutes difference in driving time was
enough to make me not want to fly. I think Mike's point is very valid.
After spreading the wings for the 100'th time I think is would be getting
very old.
Btw. call me when you get ready to do the first high speed wings folded
flyby, I want to be there with my camcorder. :)
Jeff.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149643#149643
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
Well, if you consider that Skystar just blasted most of them together via,
MIG, as does American Champion I think the fear of cracks is for the
most part grossly exagerrated. Nothing I ever welded has cracks, and
that includes all the weld's I practiced on when I later beat on them
with a hammer.
I know that they can crack, and there is a lot of literature about how
to avoid cracks. But I think in real life, for the most part if you acetylene
weld 4130 odds are pretty good, you'll never see any cracks.
I think more importantly is just pay attention to getting a nice quality
weld. This is probably 99.9% of the strength anyway.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149673#149673
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
Jeff, Cooling too fast will cause crystallization.
I would say that the fit of the joint it very important as well if not critical
to ensure a strong joint.
Welding -well anyone can weld right? No , not really.
Acetylene welding you might not see cracks but you might find a hardened area around
the weld or the weld itself and that could lead to issues down the road.
Welding .025 to .050 4130 can be very challenging for many, I would not suggest
anyone use a MIG on it unless they are very good with MIG, thin wall tubing and
different welding techniques like stitch welding.
> Well, if you consider that Skystar just blasted most of them together via,
> MIG, as does American Champion I think the fear of cracks is for the
> most part grossly exaggerated. Nothing I ever welded has cracks, and
> that includes all the weld's I practiced on when I later beat on them
> with a hammer.
>
> I know that they can crack, and there is a lot of literature about how
> to avoid cracks. But I think in real life, for the most part if you acetylene
> weld 4130 odds are pretty good, you'll never see any cracks.
>
> I think more importantly is just pay attention to getting a nice quality
> weld. This is probably 99.9% of the strength anyway.
>
> Jeff
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149689#149689
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Thought this might be helpful. Now that winter is upon us, carb ice is less likely,
however...
Carb Heater
I cant remember my whole thought process, but it evolved from a fellow listee who
used a 15w tail light bulb taped to his carb to successfully defeat carb ice.
Trying to improve from there, I had figured that 20w would provide approximately
a maximum of 100F heat to the carb body which would be warm enough without
being too hot. I used NiCrA-30DGL at 30 awg, which is a glass-insulated wire.
I had calculated that 18 of wire would yield 9.8 ohm >20w >1.42amps (per
carb). I initially wanted to wrap the wire around the carb intake, but after
concern for the rubber air filter mount and discovering that the aluminum carb
conducts the heat so fast, that it did not matter where it was wrapped. I then
wrapped it around the easiest place, in the Bings case, around the slide housing.
I used high temperature silicon around the housing, and simply wrapped
the wire into it. I choose to connect it DC on a switch. It can also be wired
AC directly. I use it as an ANTI - ice system, turning it on at engine start
whenever conditions are conducive for icing. It does not create enough heat
to wait until ice is present before using it. This is my personal untried
opinion. It does not degrade engine performance, as the air going in is just
as cold, but the water cannot turn to ice because the carb body temp stays above
freezing. If I were to do it again, I would wire it directly to AC and have
it always on. (I keep mine on all of the time anyway) Having not been plaque
by carb ice, I did not do anymore testing. Though I fly in conditions that
the carb ice chart will show as being prone, I do not fly in mist, fog, etc.
This conversation does prompt me to further investigate the effectiveness of
the heater, but in 2yrs, I havent a problem. I would like to see what my carb
body temp is with the heater on while actually flying in cold damp air. More
heat requires more wattage/amps and less wire.
I bought the wire from www.wiretronics.com (209-296-8460). They have a downloadable calculator that is real good to check (in my case to teach) things out. They had a 20 min order; you only need 18 per carb. Perhaps someone wants to group order. I gave my excess to guys around here who didnt have any heat system. You can also use it to make warm gloves, sock, etc. I think it was about $40.00 total with shipping?
Hope this helps,
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149729#149729
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
Based on my observations after viewing my destroyed airframe at the boneyard
and a close look at some pictures taken at the crash site by a friend, I
would conclude that the tig welded joints on my Model IV airframe were not
normalized after welding. There were very few welds that broke if any.
Every broken joint was within 2" from the weld. Exactly where the
crystalization would be expected. What this means in everyday flying, I
won't hazard a guess except to say that historically, there has never been
an airframe inflight failure. Hard landings? Another matter entirely.
I am attaching some photos of the airplane. They have been reduced in
resolution for band width reasons and the resolution is not great.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: rudder repair
>
> Well, if you consider that Skystar just blasted most of them together via,
> MIG, as does American Champion I think the fear of cracks is for the
> most part grossly exagerrated. Nothing I ever welded has cracks, and
> that includes all the weld's I practiced on when I later beat on them
> with a hammer.
>
> I know that they can crack, and there is a lot of literature about how
> to avoid cracks. But I think in real life, for the most part if you
> acetylene
> weld 4130 odds are pretty good, you'll never see any cracks.
>
> I think more importantly is just pay attention to getting a nice quality
> weld. This is probably 99.9% of the strength anyway.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149673#149673
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
Dave & Jeff,
This is an interesting topic for me because last weekend, Lowell & Kay Fitt stopped
by my shop to check out my project while they were in Utah visiting family.
I got talking to them about the accident and he mentioned that all the tubing
from the forward carry-thru tube broke on impact...none of the actual welds
broke but about 1 to 1.5 inches ahead of the welds is where the tubing broke.
I guess the heat "normalizing" around the weld does make a difference but it
looks like the rest of the airframe is not "normalized" It appears that in
the case of the Kitfox, the welds are stronger than the parent material...I think
this is the case in any good weld.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149741#149741
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
I see I forgot to add the photos. find attached.
Lowell
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What's the advantage of this over conventional carb heat based on hot air? Also,
I might be paranoid but the idea of a light bulb in the vicinity of a carburetor
sounds risky to me.
What motor are you using? I've read that carb heat isn't really necessary on the
Rotax 912. Anyone have thoughts on that?
> cant remember my whole thought process, but it evolved from a fellow listee
who used a 15w tail light bulb taped to his carb to successfully defeat carb ice.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149772#149772
Message 12
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Carb heat is necessary on a 912, I have had ice, and it was not fun.
John Oakley
Speedster 4
912ul and cap
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Carb Heat
What's the advantage of this over conventional carb heat based on hot air? Also,
I might be paranoid but the idea of a light bulb in the vicinity of a carburetor
sounds risky to me.
What motor are you using? I've read that carb heat isn't really necessary on the
Rotax 912. Anyone have thoughts on that?
> cant remember my whole thought process, but it evolved from a fellow listee
who used a 15w tail light bulb taped to his carb to successfully defeat carb ice.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149772#149772
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: rudder repair |
Looks like the rudder is the only part that doesn't need to be repaired
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: rudder repair
I see I forgot to add the photos. find attached.
Lowell
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