Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:39 AM - Re: VW update (LarryM)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Throttle to carb connection (DanM)
3. 09:21 AM - Re: Left Rudder on 582 powered Kitfox II (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
4. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Throttle to carb connection (Lynn Matteson)
5. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: VW update (ron schick)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Thanks for the update. What is your installed VW weight, and flight weight? What
engine did you have before. I am very interested in your results. I currently
have a 582, I think that I would like a VW, but am afraid of the weight.
I'm pretty heavy now with a grove gear, power coated and so on. With the ballast
( I like to run max aft CG), I am 610.
Thanks,
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150982#150982
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Throttle to carb connection |
Any opinions on brazing or silver soldering the cable to the wire grip for added
safety? Seems like it would work.
Lynn, I still could not fond your photos, don't know what the problem is. Could
you send them to email address?
Thanks
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150984#150984
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Left Rudder on 582 powered Kitfox II |
Clint's comment stirred a memory. Early on with my 912UL I shortened the rudder
return spring on the right side (left side for 582) to provide some of the pressure.
More recently a crescent shaped tab was added to the bottom of the rudder
to make the adjustments more finite. It is still not infinitely adjustable
as Lynn poses but I find that for cruise conditions at my normal power setting
no right rudder is required.
The adjustable spring has been used on earlier certificated aircraft.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Not to pick nits, but that part that you're going to attach onto the
> tab would be a "horn" wouldn't it?
>
> I may go with the cable-operated trim tab if I run out of other
> things to do, and if I ever have to disturb the fabric, I'll fire up
> the thermal surgery machine, and go with a servo operation. For now,
> the little pressure that I have to apply from time to time isn't that
> big a deal.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/440+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2007, at 2:04 PM, Noel R. C. Loveys wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > You got it... for feet off flying your fixed tab, like mine, is
> > only really
> > sweet at one power setting, speed, attitude set up.
> >
> > The easiest way I can think of to install an adjustable tab without
> > opening
> > the rudder would be to put the hinge, as you said, outside the
> > trailing edge
> > of the rudder. Then put a bell crank on the tab and a standoff to
> > hold the
> > cable in place on the main pipe of the rudder. The cable should be
> > routed
> > down into the fuselage at an angle to give flex room to operate the
> > rudder
> > without binding on the cable. What I'm suggesting is to use an
> > inner outer
> > cable like on bicycle brakes only heavier. (Also used by the Super
> > Cub.)
> > It wouldn't be pretty but it would work.
> >
> > If you don't mind re-skinning the rudder you could install an electric
> > actuator inside the rudder and actuate the same tab as mentioned
> > before.
> > Small electrical control wires can be routed through drilled holes
> > in the
> > main pipe and be nicely hidden. This would make for a much cleaner
> > professional looking job.
> >
> > The best method is the one already dismissed.... Get out the
> > welding torch.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> >> list-
> >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:08 AM
> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Left Rudder on 582 powered Kitfox II
> >>
> >>
> >> Noel-
> >> Maybe I didn't explain my situation well enough. I know that the tab
> >> is there just to move the control surface, not to BE the flight
> >> surface. In the case of a fixed tab, that is, a ground-adjustable
> >> tab, is to move, in this case the rudder, to a position that will
> >> allow at a chosen speed, "hands off" or as I described it earlier,
> >> "foot off" flying. The reason that I mentioned the "airspeed, prop
> >> pitch and a few other factors" was that if you set your ground
> >> adjustable tab it will only work to keep the rudder at a particular
> >> position at a particular speed. At least this is the case that I have
> >> found with my bendable, ground-adjustable rudder tab. After I
> >> installed my tab, I made a couple of flights, adjusting the amount of
> >> deflection after each landing. Since then I have left it alone, but
> >> noticed that maybe a little bit more bend will perfect the setting,
> >> but as I understand it, this perfect setting will only keep the plane
> >> straight at a very narrow speed range...is this correct?
> >>
> >> As to my thoughts for the cabin-adjustable control of the rudder tab,
> >> I was thinking that a cable-controlled tab, hinged outside of course,
> >> with a large enough radius in the cable to allow for rudder movement
> >> would do the job. My present tab is riveted to the rear of the rudder
> >> weldment. When I made the tab, I made it conform to the shape of the
> >> tubing, so that I would get the most surface contact with the tubing,
> >> allowing for the ability to bend the tab without just flexing the
> >> rivets that hold it on. If and when I decide to make the tab cabin-
> >> controlled, I'll drill out the rivets, cut the tab at the proper
> >> hinge point, and reassemble the newly hinged tab back onto the rudder
> >> weldment. Routing and attaching the cable will be the most difficult
> >> part of the job as I see it.
> >>
> >> Lynn Matteson
> >> Grass Lake, Michigan
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> >> flying w/440+ hrs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Noel R. C. Loveys wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Lynn:
> >>> The job of the tab is to move the primary flight control not be a
> >>> primary
> >>> flight control. That means that your tab has to be able to move
> >>> your
> >>> rudder. You no doubt can put an exterior tab on the rudder but I
> >>> expect you
> >>> will have to put the actuating equipment inside the rudder itself.
> >>> That
> >>> could be done from one side of the rudder. Hinging the tab outside
> >>> behind
> >>> the rudder could save some welding.
> >>>
> >>> BTW for the benefit of the crowd who haven't installed or adjusted
> >>> a tab.
> >>> The tab has to be turned into the direction of the control you
> >>> want. E.g.
> >>> to assist left pedal, turn the tab to the right which in turn will
> >>> push the
> >>> rudder left. Kind of like leaning into a left hook.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern
> >>> Campbellton, Newfoundland,
> >>> Canada
> >>> Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA
> >>> Aerocet 1100s
> >>> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> >>>> list-
> >>>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 4:20 PM
> >>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Left Rudder on 582 powered Kitfox II
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I put a fixed rudder tab on my Jab-powered 'fox, and it still
> >>>> requires a tiny bit of left rudder pressure, which means that some
> >>>> slight adjustment will be required to compensate. And that would be
> >>>> at only one particular airspeed, as I see it. Before I installed
> >>>> it,
> >>>> much more rudder was needed. It seems to me that it's probably a
> >>>> combo of airspeed, prop pitch, and a few other factors that all
> >>>> have
> >>>> to align before a fixed tab would result in a "foot off" flying
> >>>> experience. I'm still thinking about a cabin-adjustable tab that I
> >>>> could build without resorting to cutting and welding the rudder, or
> >>>> disturbing the fabric and paint.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lynn Matteson
> >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan
> >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> >>>> flying w/440+ hrs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Dec 2, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 2, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> >>>>>> The plane now has a new owner, and he has been told by other
> >>>>>> experienced pilot that the pedals should be neutral during
> >>>>>> cruise. Is it this normal behavior for a Kitfox II?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I was cruising the 582 with a foot slightly on the left pedal,
> >>>>> Jos. Now, with the Jabiru, I fly with a foot slightly on the
> >>>>> right
> >>>>> pedal. I guess you'll need some pedal correction with any single
> >>>>> engine aircraft unless you had a fixed rudder tab.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Michel Verheughe
> >>>>> Norway
> >>>>> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Clint's comment stirred a memory. Early on with my 912UL I shortened
the rudder return spring on the right side (left side for 582) to provide some
of the pressure. More recently a crescent shaped tab was added to the
bottom of the rudder to make the adjustments more finite. It is still not
infinitely adjustable as Lynn poses but I find that for cruise conditions at
my normal power setting no right rudder is required.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The adjustable spring has been used on earlier certificated aircraft.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Lynn Matteson <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>> <BR>> Not to pick nits, but that part
that you're going to attach onto the <BR>> tab would be a "horn" wouldn't
it? <BR>> <BR>> I may go with the cable-operated trim tab if I run out
of other <BR>> things to do, and if I ever have to disturb the fabric, I'll
fire up <BR>> the thermal surgery machine, and go with a servo operation.
For now, <BR>> the little pressure that I have to apply from time to time
isn't that <BR>> big a deal. <BR>> <BR>> Lynn Matteson <BR>> Grass
Lake, Michigan <BR>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 <BR>> flying w/440+
hrs <BR>> do not archive <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Dec 6, 2007, at
2:04 PM, Noel R. C. Loveys wrote: <BR>> <BR>>
> -
-> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel R. C. Loveys" <BR>> > <NOELLOVEYS@YAHOO.CA><BR>>
> <BR>> > You got it... for feet off flying your
fixed tab, like mine, is <BR>> > only really <BR>> > sweet at one
power setting, speed, attitude set up. <BR>> > <BR>> > The easiest
way I can think of to install an adjustable tab without <BR>> > opening
<BR>> > the rudder would be to put the hinge, as you said, outside the
<BR>> > trailing edge <BR>> > of the rudder. Then put a bell crank
on the tab and a standoff to <BR>> > hold the <BR>> > cable in
place on the main pipe of the rudder. The cable should be <BR>> > routed
<BR>> > down into the fuselage at an angle to give flex room to operate
the <BR>> > rudder <BR>> > without binding on the cable. What I'm
suggesting is to use an <BR>> > inner outer <BR>> > cable like on
bicycle brakes only heavier. (Also used by the Super
<BR>&
gt; > Cub.) <BR>> > It wouldn't be pretty but it would work. <BR>> > <BR>> > If you don't mind re-skinning the rudder you could install an electric <BR>> > actuator inside the rudder and actuate the same tab as mentioned <BR>> > before. <BR>> > Small electrical control wires can be routed through drilled holes <BR>> > in the <BR>> > main pipe and be nicely hidden. This would make for a much cleaner <BR>> > professional looking job. <BR>> > <BR>> > The best method is the one already dismissed.... Get out the <BR>> > welding torch. <BR>> > <BR>> > Noel <BR>> > <BR>> >> -----Original Message----- <BR>> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- <BR>> >> list- <BR>> >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson <BR>> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:08 AM <BR>> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com <BR>
> &
gt;> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Left Rudder on 582 powered Kitfox II <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson
<LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>> >> <BR>> >> Noel- <BR>> >>
Maybe I didn't explain my situation well enough. I know that the tab <BR>>
>> is there just to move the control surface, not to BE the flight <BR>>
>> surface. In the case of a fixed tab, that is, a ground-adjustable
<BR>> >> tab, is to move, in this case the rudder, to a position that
will <BR>> >> allow at a chosen speed, "hands off" or as I described
it earlier, <BR>> >> "foot off" flying. The reason that I mentioned
the "airspeed, prop <BR>> >> pitch and a few other factors" was that
if you set your ground <BR>> >> adjustable tab it will only work to
keep the rudder at a particular <BR>> >> position at a particular speed.
At least this is the case that I have <BR>>
>&g
t; found with my bendable, ground-adjustable rudder tab. After I <BR>> >>
installed my tab, I made a couple of flights, adjusting the amount of <BR>>
>> deflection after each landing. Since then I have left it alone,
but <BR>> >> noticed that maybe a little bit more bend will perfect the
setting, <BR>> >> but as I understand it, this perfect setting will
only keep the plane <BR>> >> straight at a very narrow speed range...is
this correct? <BR>> >> <BR>> >> As to my thoughts for the
cabin-adjustable control of the rudder tab, <BR>> >> I was thinking
that a cable-controlled tab, hinged outside of course, <BR>> >> with
a large enough radius in the cable to allow for rudder movement <BR>> >>
would do the job. My present tab is riveted to the rear of the rudder <BR>>
>> weldment. When I made the tab, I made it conform to the shape
of the <BR>> >> tubing, so that I would get
the mo
st surface contact with the tubing, <BR>> >> allowing for the ability
to bend the tab without just flexing the <BR>> >> rivets that hold it
on. If and when I decide to make the tab cabin- <BR>> >> controlled,
I'll drill out the rivets, cut the tab at the proper <BR>> >> hinge
point, and reassemble the newly hinged tab back onto the rudder <BR>> >>
weldment. Routing and attaching the cable will be the most difficult <BR>>
>> part of the job as I see it. <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
Lynn Matteson <BR>> >> Grass Lake, Michigan <BR>> >> Kitfox
IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 <BR>> >> flying w/440+ hrs <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >> On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:00
AM, Noel R. C. Loveys wrote: <BR>> >> <BR>> >>> -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel R. C. Loveys" <BR>> >>> <NOELLOVEYS@YAHOO.CA><BR>>
>>> <BR>> >
>&g
t; Lynn: <BR>> >>> The job of the tab is to move the primary flight
control not be a <BR>> >>> primary <BR>> >>> flight control.
That means that your tab has to be able to move <BR>> >>>
your <BR>> >>> rudder. You no doubt can put an exterior tab on the
rudder but I <BR>> >>> expect you <BR>> >>> will have
to put the actuating equipment inside the rudder itself. <BR>> >>>
That <BR>> >>> could be done from one side of the rudder. Hinging
the tab outside <BR>> >>> behind <BR>> >>> the rudder
could save some welding. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> BTW for
the benefit of the crowd who haven't installed or adjusted <BR>> >>>
a tab. <BR>> >>> The tab has to be turned into the direction of
the control you <BR>> >>> want. E.g. <BR>> >>> to assist
left pedal, turn the tab to the right which in t
urn wi
ll <BR>> >>> push the <BR>> >>> rudder left. Kind of like leaning into a left hook. <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern <BR>> >>> Campbellton, Newfoundland, <BR>> >>> Canada <BR>> >>> Kitfox Mod III-A, 582, B box, Ivo IFA <BR>> >>> Aerocet 1100s <BR>> >>> noelloveys@yahoo.ca <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> >>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- <BR>> >>>> list- <BR>> >>>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson <BR>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 4:20 PM <BR>> >>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com <BR>> >>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Left Rudder
on 582
powered Kitfox II <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> --> Kitfox-List
message posted by: Lynn Matteson <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>> >>>>
<BR>> >>>> I put a fixed rudder tab on my Jab-powered
'fox, and it still <BR>> >>>> requires a tiny bit of left rudder
pressure, which means that some <BR>> >>>> slight adjustment
will be required to compensate. And that would be <BR>> >>>> at
only one particular airspeed, as I see it. Before I installed <BR>> >>>>
it, <BR>> >>>> much more rudder was needed. It seems
to me that it's probably a <BR>> >>>> combo of airspeed, prop
pitch, and a few other factors that all <BR>> >>>> have <BR>>
>>>> to align before a fixed tab would result in a "foot off" flying
<BR>> >>>> experience. I'm still thinking about a cabin-adjustable
tab that I <BR>> >>>> could
build
without resorting to cutting and welding the rudder, or <BR>> >>>>
disturbing the fabric and paint. <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>>
Lynn Matteson <BR>> >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan <BR>>
>>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 <BR>> >>>>
flying w/440+ hrs <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>>> On Dec 2, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Michel
Verheughe wrote: <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>>> -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: Michel Verheughe <BR>> >>>>>
<MICHEL@ONLINE.NO><BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>>
On Dec 2, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: <BR>> >>>>>>
The plane now has a new owner, and he has been told by other <BR>>
>>>>>> experienced pilot that the pedals should be neutral
during <BR>> >>>>>> cruise. Is i
t this
normal behavior for a Kitfox II? <BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>>
I was cruising the 582 with a foot slightly on the left pedal,
<BR>> >>>>> Jos. Now, with the Jabiru, I fly with a foot slightly
on the <BR>> >>>>> right <BR>> >>>>>
pedal. I guess you'll need some pedal correction with any single <BR>> >>>>>
engine aircraft unless you had a fixed rudder tab. <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> Cheers, <BR>> >>>>>
Michel Verheughe <BR>> >>>>> Norway <BR>> >>>>>
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 <BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>>
<BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>
<BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>>
<BR>> >>>> <BR>> >&
gt;>
>>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Throttle to carb connection |
I'd go with silver solder...it's so much cleaner the way it wicks
into the (properly prepared) joint. Yes, I'll send the photos to you,
Dan.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/440+ hrs
On Dec 7, 2007, at 9:48 AM, DanM wrote:
>
> Any opinions on brazing or silver soldering the cable to the wire
> grip for added safety? Seems like it would work.
>
> Lynn, I still could not fond your photos, don't know what the
> problem is. Could you send them to email address?
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> Dan Mc Intyre
> Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150984#150984
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Larry my empty weight was 660 until I added 3lb with the stroker crank, 7lb
more flywheel, a little more at the heads, and another ignition. I have a
full size auto battery, ELT, indash cd stereo etc. I had two pounds balla
st on the tail, now I need two more to land full stall. If I upgrade to t
he gear drive starter I can lose the heavy flywheel. The KF IV 1200 handle
s the weight fine and leaves more usefull load than the C-152. I was aroun
d 925lb when I did my 135' takeoff. That was pulling in flaps. My normal i
s around 350'. I'm curious how it would perform with the STOL wing. Not t
rying to sell VW cause I've sure had to tinker to get to this point. The p
lane had never flown until I hung the VW so no way to compare it to the 582
. Ron NB Ore 541KF> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VW update> From: CrownLJ@ve
rizon.net> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 06:38:38 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.
Thanks for the update. What is your installed VW weight, and flight weight
? What engine did you have before. I am very interested in your results. I
currently have a 582, I think that I would like a VW, but am afraid of the
weight. I'm pretty heavy now with a grove gear, power coated and so on. Wit
h the ballast ( I like to run max aft CG), I am 610.> > Thanks,> larry> > >
> > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
==============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init
iative now.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|