Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:58 AM - Kitfox an Avid copy? (fox5flyer)
2. 04:42 AM - Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (fox5flyer)
3. 06:31 AM - e-bay auction (Marco Menezes)
4. 09:16 AM - Re: e-bay auction (Pete Christensen)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: e-bay auction (Marco Menezes)
6. 10:18 AM - Re: e-bay auction (Pete Christensen)
7. 02:46 PM - Re: e-bay auction (Tom Jones)
8. 03:37 PM - Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (dholly)
9. 05:06 PM - Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (dave)
10. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (john oakley)
11. 07:23 PM - Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (john oakley)
12. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (Michael Gibbs)
13. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Kitfox an Avid copy? |
I've been reading these posts with considerable interest and I hope that
someone is keeping them or filing them away in some sort of archive where
this information will be permanently available, possibly via John McBean at
Kitfox Aircraft, or perhaps Wikipedia. One thing I noticed was that the
overall tone of the topic seemed to give Dean Wilson most of the design
credit and to tone down DD's role in the birth of the Avid history. Very
similar to Piper and Taylor. Having built two Kitfoxes, although I
certainly don't consider myself any sort of expert on the topic, I've been
closely involved with Kitfoxes since the early 90s and it's my opinion that
both of these guys are excellent aircraft designers and both share equally
in the development of the Kitfox/Avid heritage. A perfect example of Dan
Denny's design talent is the Thunder Mustang, one of the fastest homebuilts
on the planet. http://www.ksql.com/myriad/thunder.htm
IMO, these guys are very much like the Beatles. Each was remarkably gifted
and each made his own unique contribution to the evolution of the
Kitfox/Avid, but partly due to their amazing talents, it was necessary for
them to go their separate ways. As far as who did specifically what, it is
difficult, if not impossible to accurately gauge this as they were a
partnership and worked together as a team on the project.
FWIW,
Deke Morisse
S5, NE Michigan and snowed in
>
> Paul sez:
>
>>...no one except for probably Dean Wilson and Dan Denney know the real
>>story about how the concept developed.
>
> The article you posted the link to corroborates the previous one well:
>
> "In the early 1980s, Wilson got his chance when an acquaintance approached
> him and asked if he'd design an ultralight. Wilson...talked his friend
> into doing a light Experimental design.
>
> "Wilson's aforementioned 'acquaintance' wanted to partner with him in a
> company to produce kits for the Flyer, but the arrangement didn't work
> out...That 'acquaintance' was Kitfox founder Dan Denney."
>
> Based on Wilson's own testimony, they both had a part in conceptualizing
> the Avid Flyer and forming the company that would sell the kits. No
> question, it was Wilson's design and he deserves the credit for creating
> the original, but take away either component of the equation and what we
> know today as Kitfoxes and Avid Flyers would not exist. I think both
> articles reinforces the point that Denney didn't copy the Flyer from
> outside--he was inside from the conception.
>
> Would Wilson have gone on to design some great airplanes had be never met
> Denney? Sure, but we'd all be flying Light Aero Flyers instead and who
> knows what they'd look like.
>
> "He said he wouldn't compete with me after he left, and we shook hands on
> it."
>
> And the rest is, as they say, history. I have never heard Denney's side
> of the story, but I don't doubt what Wilson is saying. I'm sure this is
> why the article doesn't begin with "...a friend approached him...". And
> why, when I went to Nampa and Caldwell with my dad in 1991 to check out
> the two airplanes, the rivalry was in high gear. I used it to my
> advantage when we were negotiating the purchase price. :-)
>
> Interesting stuff. Thanks, Paul.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
Isn't Dean Wilson's the Private Explorer with single IO540 the one that had
the bed in it? I've tried to find a photo sequence of it, but gave it up.
I know it existed because I saw it at Oshkosh about ten years ago or more.
The linkd below are the Arctic Explorer, a larger version and a not very
descriptive photo of the Private Explorer.
http://www.coastcomp.com/av/fltline2/avion.htm
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4515
Deke
do not archive
>
> Wow,
> That is something. I have never seen such a wing set up, the lower wing
> appears much smaller along with the flaps on the upper wing. It reminds me
> the artic explorer Dean built, both in twin and single engine, as a
> camper.
> The original even had a diver exit door in the hull.
>
> John Oakley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:38 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
>
> I,ve enjoyed this discussion and have to add a tidbit. A local here in
> Cameron Park needed a heavy hauler bush plane to take with him to Africa
> where he served every other quarter of the year as a missionary. The way
> he
>
> told it, it was about ten minutes by air from his compound to the local
> airport, but nearly half a day by ground transport.
>
> He contracted with Dean Wilson to design him such an airplane. Attached
> is
> a photo of his creation. Notice the three tiered "venetian blind"
> flaperon
> on the upper wing. The airplane had a cargo door that would accommodate a
> 55 gallon drum. It flew quite well and did in fact get to Africa, where
> it
> was used as intended until it was damaged in a landing accident. The
> owner
> perished in the crash of his Robinson Exec, built for the same purpose as
> the biplane, so further info. is not available.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
>
>
>>
>> Paul sez:
>>
>>>...no one except for probably Dean Wilson and Dan Denney know the real
>>>story about how the concept developed.
>>
>> The article you posted the link to corroborates the previous one well:
>>
>> "In the early 1980s, Wilson got his chance when an acquaintance
>> approached
>
>> him and asked if he'd design an ultralight. Wilson...talked his friend
>> into doing a light Experimental design.
>>
>> "Wilson's aforementioned 'acquaintance' wanted to partner with him in a
>> company to produce kits for the Flyer, but the arrangement didn't work
>> out...That 'acquaintance' was Kitfox founder Dan Denney."
>>
>> Based on Wilson's own testimony, they both had a part in conceptualizing
>> the Avid Flyer and forming the company that would sell the kits. No
>> question, it was Wilson's design and he deserves the credit for creating
>> the original, but take away either component of the equation and what we
>> know today as Kitfoxes and Avid Flyers would not exist. I think both
>> articles reinforces the point that Denney didn't copy the Flyer from
>> outside--he was inside from the conception.
>>
>> Would Wilson have gone on to design some great airplanes had be never met
>> Denney? Sure, but we'd all be flying Light Aero Flyers instead and who
>> knows what they'd look like.
>>
>> "He said he wouldn't compete with me after he left, and we shook hands on
>> it."
>>
>> And the rest is, as they say, history. I have never heard Denney's side
>> of the story, but I don't doubt what Wilson is saying. I'm sure this is
>> why the article doesn't begin with "...a friend approached him...". And
>> why, when I went to Nampa and Caldwell with my dad in 1991 to check out
>> the two airplanes, the rivalry was in high gear. I used it to my
>> advantage when we were negotiating the purchase price. :-)
>>
>> Interesting stuff. Thanks, Paul.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Kitfoxers:
There's a kit on e-bay, no reserve, opening bid $8K. Looks to be a complete Model
3 with 582 gray head. Little or no work has been done. It's in El Paso, Tx.
Coud be a good buy for someone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150194978646&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: e-bay auction |
That's good, finally a Kitfox El Paso, TX. though I'd rather have one
already built. Now how long will this thing take to build? I am
retired.
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes
To: Matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: e-bay auction
Kitfoxers:
There's a kit on e-bay, no reserve, opening bid $8K. Looks to be a
complete Model 3 with 582 gray head. Little or no work has been done.
It's in El Paso, Tx.
Coud be a good buy for someone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150194978
646&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: e-bay auction |
That depends, Pete. Are you married? ;-)
do not archive
Pete Christensen <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
That's good, finally a Kitfox El Paso, TX. though I'd rather have one
already built. Now how long will this thing take to build? I am retired.
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes
To: Matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: e-bay auction
Kitfoxers:
There's a kit on e-bay, no reserve, opening bid $8K. Looks to be a complete Model
3 with 582 gray head. Little or no work has been done. It's in El Paso, Tx.
Coud be a good buy for someone.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150194978646&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: e-bay auction |
Well yes but she works.
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: e-bay auction
That depends, Pete. Are you married? ;-)
do not archive
Pete Christensen <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
That's good, finally a Kitfox El Paso, TX. though I'd rather have
one already built. Now how long will this thing take to build? I am
retired.
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes
To: Matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: e-bay auction
Kitfoxers:
There's a kit on e-bay, no reserve, opening bid $8K. Looks to be a
complete Model 3 with 582 gray head. Little or no work has been done.
It's in El Paso, Tx.
Coud be a good buy for someone.
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: e-bay auction |
> Now how long will this thing take to build?
Pete, it took me 1200 hours to build a Classic 4. It was my first experience at
this sort of thing. That includes all the head scratching too. So, if you
start at the first of the year and work 40 hours a week you will be done by the
first of August.
I think I could build another just like mine in 600 to 700 hours now. The key
to building quick is to do it by the book and don't try to come up with and make
changes or add a bunch of accessories on to it.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152029#152029
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
Quote:
...Kitfox was actually a copy of the first Avids.
> Why do Avid folks keep saying this? Neither is a copy of the other, they are
an example of divergent evolution.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
Of course the designs diverged, eventually. But, if the original question is whether
the first Kitfox was a direct Flyer copy (either an actual Flyer fuse absconded
with or one made from a stolen design), John Larsen effectively put that
to bed last time it bubbled up.
> Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: Avid/Kitfox Reply with quote
> Could not help but comment on this thread.
> Back in the primordial swirls of time1981 as I recall, Dean Wilson was in the
hospital recovering from a minor accident when Dan Denny (Dan and Dean were married
to cousins), came to see Dean with the idea of designing an ultra light.
Dean was already established as a designer, so soon Dean came up with the Avid
Flyer. The prototype AF99 was a tri-- gear as Dan was not tail wheel efficient
at the time. The plane was too heavy to qualify as an ultra light, but created
great interest in the experimental world. Dean won Best New Design at OSH
in 1982. With Dean the designer and Dan the promoter the little plane took off
and was soon selling well. Soon problems developed as Dean was very having trouble
with Dan's business practices, so the two decided to part company. As Dean
tells it they sat down in a restaurant and drew up a agreement wherein Dan
agreed not to compete by building a plane like the Avid Flyer. The problem was
the agreement was not drawn up by a lawyer so when Dan started making Kitfox,
Dean took him to court only to have the judge throw out the agreement. I first
flew the KF series 1 with Dan in1983. It was an Avid with cosmetic changes.
I ultimately worked for both men and it is a interesting story, too big for this
list.
I have yet to find public comments from anyone more intimately involved in the
Avid/Kitfox history than John, and I see absolutely no hint of a personal agenda
or any 'axe-grinding' in his comments above. I take it at face value and as
confirmation that the first 'Fox was, for all intent and purpose, a direct Flyer
copy. Anyhoo, back to the first Flyer...
> No one is arguing who designed the airplane. Denney and Wilson designed and built
the original Avid Flyer together.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
It certainly seems like you wish to argue this point. Every time the original Flyer
design is brought up, you promote Dan Denney's involvement at the design
stage as equal to Dean's. Clearly, both men played pivotal roles in the Flyer
development and Avid's history, but at what point does one achieve equality as
'co-designer'? For the sake of argument, if Dan simply handed Dean his 'wish
list' to out-source the majority of design work as John, Paul AND your magazine
article all suggest, I'm at a loss to understand why you believe the bulk of
the design credit should not go to Dean.
Dan would have collaborated on the design, but a brilliant conceptual idea on paper
is just that. Design brilliance is the process that ultimately takes great
ideas from paper to fruition. Each has it's place in bringing product to market
of course but, since both are necessary to make 1+1=2, I see neither as more
important or significant than the other in Flyer development. However, just
as I make a distinction between manufacturing and marketing, I make the distinction
between concept and implementation by design and wish to give credit where
credit is due.
Regardless of whether you believe that is correct, History shows the Best New Design
Award was presented to Dean. If Dan found that to be a personal affront
or egregious, I just find it interesting that he didn't he immediately pack his
bags. But here's what I really find interesting... With full respect of his
own talents as a designer and recognition for each and every design improvement
he added to the original Flyer design after forming Kitfox, I have always wondered
why Dan never felt comfortable enough with his abilities to design such
an aircraft solely on his own from the git go. Perhaps because he wanted it
to be an ultralight, something he had little or no prior experience designing?
Either way, don't know, don't care. I am simply forever grateful these two stars
collided. Even if their big egos never reconcile and agree on past history it
doesn't detract from the planes being so much fun to build and fly. I will derive
far more satisfaction and enjoyment building and flying my Avid than knowing
the exact degree of involvement each of them had in conceptualizing, designing,
marketing, manufacturing etc. the original Flyer. Truthfully, I think it
would be sad to see the mystery and controversy end. In it's own twisted little
manner, such a spiced past adds to the allure. Not to mention fodder for the
forum boards.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152040#152040
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
I have always looked as Avid was # 1
Kitfox was a clone of the Avid and Dan marketed the hell out of it .
He did design changes to provide either "curb appeal" or aesthetics for a reason
whether it worked better or not ie droop tips. But he did sell alot more
airplanes that Wilson did. They both have their attributes.
There was other clones again like Raven, Mohawk, Eurofox, Ridgerunner and Highlander.
Either way there are still many Kitfox and Avids around and still flying and some
still being built. It shocks me to see 912 Kitfoxes selling for 22 to 25k
now.
For the Kitfox supporters that know all of early development then maybe you could
chime in and tell all what happened to the original Kitfoxes. Are they
flying or wrecked?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152055#152055
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
DD85 is alive and living in Morgan Utah as a nose dragger now. This is the
blue and grey plane that showed up in all the pictures that Dan and Charlie
did for advertisement. This also is the first plane that had floats in it I
believe. the engine this plane has now is the 912 A that was in the biplane
earlier.
John Oakley
Fox 4 long and short wing
912 ul cap
Day/night vfr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
I have always looked as Avid was # 1
Kitfox was a clone of the Avid and Dan marketed the hell out of it .
He did design changes to provide either "curb appeal" or aesthetics for a
reason whether it worked better or not ie droop tips. But he did sell
alot more airplanes that Wilson did. They both have their attributes.
There was other clones again like Raven, Mohawk, Eurofox, Ridgerunner and
Highlander.
Either way there are still many Kitfox and Avids around and still flying and
some still being built. It shocks me to see 912 Kitfoxes selling for 22 to
25k now.
For the Kitfox supporters that know all of early development then maybe you
could chime in and tell all what happened to the original Kitfoxes. Are
they flying or wrecked?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152055#152055
Message 11
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| Subject: | Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
Great find Deke, I have not seen pictures of this plane for years, I
somewhere had pictures of the single engine one, I believe it was destroyed
in Alaska or northern Canada on takeoff from a short strip.
John oakely
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
Isn't Dean Wilson's the Private Explorer with single IO540 the one that had
the bed in it? I've tried to find a photo sequence of it, but gave it up.
I know it existed because I saw it at Oshkosh about ten years ago or more.
The linkd below are the Arctic Explorer, a larger version and a not very
descriptive photo of the Private Explorer.
http://www.coastcomp.com/av/fltline2/avion.htm
http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4515
Deke
do not archive
>
> Wow,
> That is something. I have never seen such a wing set up, the lower wing
> appears much smaller along with the flaps on the upper wing. It reminds me
> the artic explorer Dean built, both in twin and single engine, as a
> camper.
> The original even had a diver exit door in the hull.
>
> John Oakley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:38 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
>
> I,ve enjoyed this discussion and have to add a tidbit. A local here in
> Cameron Park needed a heavy hauler bush plane to take with him to Africa
> where he served every other quarter of the year as a missionary. The way
> he
>
> told it, it was about ten minutes by air from his compound to the local
> airport, but nearly half a day by ground transport.
>
> He contracted with Dean Wilson to design him such an airplane. Attached
> is
> a photo of his creation. Notice the three tiered "venetian blind"
> flaperon
> on the upper wing. The airplane had a cargo door that would accommodate a
> 55 gallon drum. It flew quite well and did in fact get to Africa, where
> it
> was used as intended until it was damaged in a landing accident. The
> owner
> perished in the crash of his Robinson Exec, built for the same purpose as
> the biplane, so further info. is not available.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibbs" <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4)
>
>
>>
>> Paul sez:
>>
>>>...no one except for probably Dean Wilson and Dan Denney know the real
>>>story about how the concept developed.
>>
>> The article you posted the link to corroborates the previous one well:
>>
>> "In the early 1980s, Wilson got his chance when an acquaintance
>> approached
>
>> him and asked if he'd design an ultralight. Wilson...talked his friend
>> into doing a light Experimental design.
>>
>> "Wilson's aforementioned 'acquaintance' wanted to partner with him in a
>> company to produce kits for the Flyer, but the arrangement didn't work
>> out...That 'acquaintance' was Kitfox founder Dan Denney."
>>
>> Based on Wilson's own testimony, they both had a part in conceptualizing
>> the Avid Flyer and forming the company that would sell the kits. No
>> question, it was Wilson's design and he deserves the credit for creating
>> the original, but take away either component of the equation and what we
>> know today as Kitfoxes and Avid Flyers would not exist. I think both
>> articles reinforces the point that Denney didn't copy the Flyer from
>> outside--he was inside from the conception.
>>
>> Would Wilson have gone on to design some great airplanes had be never met
>> Denney? Sure, but we'd all be flying Light Aero Flyers instead and who
>> knows what they'd look like.
>>
>> "He said he wouldn't compete with me after he left, and we shook hands on
>> it."
>>
>> And the rest is, as they say, history. I have never heard Denney's side
>> of the story, but I don't doubt what Wilson is saying. I'm sure this is
>> why the article doesn't begin with "...a friend approached him...". And
>> why, when I went to Nampa and Caldwell with my dad in 1991 to check out
>> the two airplanes, the rivalry was in high gear. I used it to my
>> advantage when we were negotiating the purchase price. :-)
>>
>> Interesting stuff. Thanks, Paul.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
Dave sez:
>Kitfox was a clone of the Avid and Dan marketed the hell out of it.
>There was other clones again like Raven, Mohawk, Eurofox,
>Ridgerunner and Highlander.
There is no comparison between the Kitfox and the "clones". The
clones were produced by people who had nothing to do with the
original development of the Avid Flyer. The Kitfox is a direct
descendent of the Flyer and was produced by people involved in the
Flyer's original development.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (Was: KF 3 or KF 4) |
>...I'm at a loss to understand why you believe the bulk of the
>design credit should not go to Dean.
I never said it shouldn't. I said that the events that played out
were due to the interaction between Denney's desire for a new
airplane and Wilson's design skills and that both ingredients were
necessary.
>Dan would have collaborated on the design, but a brilliant
>conceptual idea on paper is just that. Design brilliance is the
>process that ultimately takes great ideas from paper to fruition.
>Each has it's place in bringing product to market of course but,
>since both are necessary to make 1+1=2, I see neither as more
>important or significant than the other in Flyer development.
That was exactly my point.
>Either way, don't know, don't care. I am simply forever grateful
>these two stars collided.
I agree.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
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