---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/16/07: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:02 AM - Re: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX (Michel Verheughe) 2. 04:58 AM - Jimmy Franklin Osh. 92 (Dee Young) 3. 09:21 AM - Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (SkySteve) 4. 09:33 AM - Re: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX (Michael Gibbs) 5. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? (john oakley) 6. 11:07 AM - new member to the list (great bear) 7. 02:47 PM - Re: new member to the list (kirk hull) 8. 02:58 PM - Re: Off topic (kirk hull) 9. 03:02 PM - Re: Off topic (kirk hull) 10. 03:45 PM - Re: new member to the list (Jim Crowder) 11. 04:02 PM - Kitfox 7 E-LSA (dcsfoto) 12. 04:57 PM - Re: new member to the list (Dacha) 13. 05:02 PM - Re: Jimmy Franklin Osh. 92 (Paul Seehafer) 14. 05:13 PM - Re: new member to the list (Sbennett3@aol.com) 15. 06:10 PM - Re: Kitfox 7 E-LSA (RRTRACK@aol.com) 16. 06:18 PM - Re: new member to the list (RRTRACK@AOL.COM) 17. 06:28 PM - Re: Kitfox 7 E-LSA (Russell Lassetter) 18. 06:34 PM - Re: new member to the list (Zimmermans) 19. 09:03 PM - Re: new member to the list (Kenneth and Alice Jones) 20. 09:36 PM - Re: new member to the list (Michael Gibbs) 21. 10:00 PM - resending: Help-582 ignition fault (R & L Ainsworth) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:25 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX On Dec 16, 2007, at 5:34 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote: > I dunno, Michel, version 9 of X-plane has terrain that is pretty > spectacular! That is true, Mike. But I was thinking about the work so many people have done with Microsoft FS in reproducing the buildings, etc. of so many airfields worldwide. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:36 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Jimmy Franklin Osh. 92 That is excellent Paul, thanks Dee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:55 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? From: "SkySteve" Hello. I have not participated in this board before, but I do review it daily. Relative to the current discussion of the history of the Kitfox, I own 85DD. It is currently hangered in Morgan, Utah. I have attached photos of 85DD as she looked when I purchased her, and as she looks today. Also attached are photos of two Kitfox promotional posters showing 85DD as well as other Kitfoxes. I purchased 85DD in April, 2006 from Jim Duffy. Jim is an AP located in Ogden, Utah and has his business at Ogden Hinkley airport. Jim purchased 85DD from Dan Denney. 85DD has undergone several mods since I purchased her, with more to come later. She is powered by a 912A Rotax, which was once used on a Kitfox Biplane (I believe). She is registered at 1050#. Here are the mods so far: Grove main gear designed and installed so that you can convert between nosewheel and tailwheel configurations; Grove 6" wheels; Grove brakes; dual brake controls for left & right seats; 600-6 tires; custom tuned exhaust and mufflers; Kitfox factory nosewheel; Maule tailwheel; custom bubble doors (not shown in photo); model IV rudder; vertical stabilizer redesigned to fit model IV rudder; starting primer added; and 65" carbon fiber Warp Drive propeller. We plan on having 85DD at the 2008 Kitfox factory fly-in to show her off. Much of the encouragement to continue on this project has come from a long-time member of your community, John Oakley. John has become a good friend and mentor of mine during this project. Thank you, John, for your encouragement and advice. The two posters are as follows: The poster with a flying Kitfox is 89DD. 89DD is also shown on the bottom left on skis, then 85DD in the bottom center, 84DD next to the right, and 85DD again on the right with floats. The poster with a Kitfox on floats is 88DD. 89DD is on the bottom left with skis, then 85DD in the center, 91KF is next to the right and 88DD to the far right with wings folded. Thought you might be interested in this little bit of Kitfox history. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152522#152522 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00010_210.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00009_101.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_i_iv_small_742.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_111.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:23 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX >That is true, Mike. But I was thinking about the work so many people >have done with Microsoft FS in reproducing the buildings, etc. of so >many airfields worldwide. So was I! :-) Mike G. N728KF Phoenix, AZ Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:04 AM PST US From: "john oakley" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? Steve, Great input, and the posters bring back memories as they are what I had hanging in my shop for mental support for those 5 years it took to put mine together. John Oakley Speedster 4 912ul cap -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:20 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox an Avid copy? Hello. I have not participated in this board before, but I do review it daily. Relative to the current discussion of the history of the Kitfox, I own 85DD. It is currently hangered in Morgan, Utah. I have attached photos of 85DD as she looked when I purchased her, and as she looks today. Also attached are photos of two Kitfox promotional posters showing 85DD as well as other Kitfoxes. I purchased 85DD in April, 2006 from Jim Duffy. Jim is an AP located in Ogden, Utah and has his business at Ogden Hinkley airport. Jim purchased 85DD from Dan Denney. 85DD has undergone several mods since I purchased her, with more to come later. She is powered by a 912A Rotax, which was once used on a Kitfox Biplane (I believe). She is registered at 1050#. Here are the mods so far: Grove main gear designed and installed so that you can convert between nosewheel and tailwheel configurations; Grove 6" wheels; Grove brakes; dual brake controls for left & right seats; 600-6 tires; custom tuned exhaust and mufflers; Kitfox factory nosewheel; Maule tailwheel; custom bubble doors (not shown in photo); model IV rudder; vertical stabilizer redesigned to fit model IV rudder; starting primer added; and 65" carbon fiber Warp Drive propeller. We plan on having 85DD at the 2008 Kitfox factory fly-in to show her off. Much of the encouragement to continue on this project has come from a long-time member of your community, John Oakley. John has become a good friend and mentor of mine during this project. Thank you, John, for your encouragement and advice. The two posters are as follows: The poster with a flying Kitfox is 89DD. 89DD is also shown on the bottom left on skis, then 85DD in the bottom center, 84DD next to the right, and 85DD again on the right with floats. The poster with a Kitfox on floats is 88DD. 89DD is on the bottom left with skis, then 85DD in the center, 91KF is next to the right and 88DD to the far right with wings folded. Thought you might be interested in this little bit of Kitfox history. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152522#152522 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00010_210.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00009_101.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_i_iv_small_742.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_111.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:38 AM PST US From: great bear Subject: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Reading all of the history on avid vs kitfox...I am with those who think its a good thing these guys got together...especially now that sport light had truly come to be......which brings me to my little story. I recently finished building a Glasair ITD and flew it for the first time this year...wonderful plane. 190mph in level cruise and a hotrod! Now I have come to realize that I will need to move to sport light and bought a Kitfox5 speedster (firewall back) and will build that.....need some suggestions and advice from fellow builders as to engine prop combinations and building hints....I am leaning towards the 7 cowling over the bump cowl and a 4 stroke engine (I have a jabiru2200).....any help this way would be great. The kit has all the factory upgrades, adjustable rudder pedals , electric trim, speedster tail, extra wing ribs..ect... never built a tube and fabric plane but I believe with a little help I will do just fine. Feel free to contact me direct av8r2488@yahoo.com GARY Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:45 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I am not sure if the 5 is good for sport pilot. I was thinking it was to heavy. I have a classic 4 so I am not that familiar with the 5. I am however sure that someone with a 5 can correct me if I am wrong. As for the jabiru 2200 I have heard a lot of good reports. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of great bear Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Reading all of the history on avid vs kitfox...I am with those who think its a good thing these guys got together...especially now that sport light had truly come to be......which brings me to my little story. I recently finished building a Glasair ITD and flew it for the first time this year...wonderful plane. 190mph in level cruise and a hotrod! Now I have come to realize that I will need to move to sport light and bought a Kitfox5 speedster (firewall back) and will build that.....need some suggestions and advice from fellow builders as to engine prop combinations and building hints....I am leaning towards the 7 cowling over the bump cowl and a 4 stroke engine (I have a jabiru2200).....any help this way would be great. The kit has all the factory upgrades, adjustable rudder pedals , electric trim, speedster tail, extra wing ribs..ect... never built a tube and fabric plane but I believe with a little help I will do just fine. Feel free to contact me direct av8r2488@yahoo.com GARY Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:16 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Off topic Reminds of the TWA travel poster of NY it was taken at night and centered on the twin towers. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX >That is true, Mike. But I was thinking about the work so many people >have done with Microsoft FS in reproducing the buildings, etc. of so >many airfields worldwide. So was I! :-) Mike G. N728KF Phoenix, AZ Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:39 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Off topic Reminds of the TWA travel poster of NY it was taken at night and centered on the twin towers. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Off topic:Kitfox add-on for FSX >That is true, Mike. But I was thinking about the work so many people >have done with Microsoft FS in reproducing the buildings, etc. of so >many airfields worldwide. So was I! :-) Mike G. N728KF Phoenix, AZ Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:13 PM PST US From: "Jim Crowder" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list The 5 is approximately the same as the 7 which is Kitfox's Light Sport Offering. Jim Crowder Currently Installing a Jabiru 3300 On a Kitfox Series 5 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kirk hull > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:47 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list > > > > I am not sure if the 5 is good for sport pilot. I was thinking it was to > heavy. I have a classic 4 so I am not that familiar with the 5. I am > however sure that someone with a 5 can correct me if I am wrong. > As for the > jabiru 2200 I have heard a lot of good reports. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of great bear > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:04 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: new member to the list > > > Reading all of the history on avid vs kitfox...I am with those > who think its > a good thing these guys got together...especially now that sport light had > truly come to be......which brings me to my little story. I recently > finished building a Glasair ITD and flew it for the first time this > year...wonderful plane. 190mph in level cruise and a hotrod! Now > I have come > to realize that I will need to move to sport light and bought a Kitfox5 > speedster (firewall back) and will build that.....need some > suggestions and > advice from fellow builders as to engine prop combinations and building > hints....I am leaning towards the 7 cowling over the bump cowl and a 4 > stroke engine (I have a jabiru2200).....any help this way would be great. > The kit has all the factory upgrades, adjustable rudder pedals , electric > trim, speedster tail, extra wing ribs..ect... never built a tube > and fabric > plane but I believe with a little help I will do just fine. Feel free to > contact me > direct av8r2488@yahoo.com GARY > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:09 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 7 E-LSA From: "dcsfoto" just got my Light Sport ticket on my model 7. hope to do first flight soon. going to fit wheel pants and do cosmetic clean-ups first. got my kit sept 06,started in jan 07. anyone looking to do a Kitfox, it was an easy project. one of the things that made it easy was the SUPER support from John and Debra at Kitfox LLC David Kelm Model 3 and Model 7 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152586#152586 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:22 PM PST US From: "Dacha" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list The original Kitfox 5 came out as 1400#, then went to the 1550#. The builder recertified mine for 1500. Some say that as the builder you can list your own weight. But the 5 and later are a little heavier than the 4's. LeRoy ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:40 PM PST US From: "Paul Seehafer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Jimmy Franklin Osh. 92 Glad you enjoyed it Dee. Jim really did a good job showing just how fantastic our airplanes are! Paul do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Dee Young To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:55 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Jimmy Franklin Osh. 92 That is excellent Paul, thanks Dee Do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:00 PM PST US From: Sbennett3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport. Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross. I believe up to model 4 1200 is good for light sport. Steve Bennett Light sport cert. going for private pilot. **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:05 PM PST US From: RRTRACK@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 7 E-LSA Congratulations David Sounds like your are a second time Kitfox builder. That had to help speed up the build time. I wanted a Kitfox IV before I got to check out the Kitfox 7. Really like the 7, sure you will too. "do not archive" Mark Kitfox 5 Vixen 912UL IVO Hartford, Wisconsin **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:52 PM PST US From: RRTRACK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Steve If you are building a Kitfox you can just certify it as 1320# gross airplane and if it meets all the other areas of the LSA it can be used as an LSA. Even if it is certified as an Experimental Home Built. If a Kitfox 5, 6, or 7 was already certified above 1320# gross then it can never be used as an LSA. There is no going back. Mark Kitfox 5 Vixen 912UL IVO Hartford, Wisconsin **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:00 PM PST US From: "Russell Lassetter" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 7 E-LSA Hello David, Congratulations on your completion. Do you have an idea of how many man-hours you spent. I know everyone keeps track a little differently but I'm always interested. Russ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of dcsfoto > Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:02 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox 7 E-LSA > > > > just got my Light Sport ticket on my model 7. hope to do first > flight soon. > going to fit wheel pants and do cosmetic clean-ups first. > > got my kit sept 06,started in jan 07. > > anyone looking to do a Kitfox, it was an easy project. one of the > things that > made it easy was the SUPER support from John and Debra at Kitfox LLC > > David Kelm Model 3 and Model 7 > > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152586#152586 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:31 PM PST US From: "Zimmermans" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list As the builder you are allowed to set the gross weight. If you increase the weight over the factory, you may have to document your tests. Jim Z Series 5 1320 gross weight. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sbennett3@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport. Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross. I believe up to model 4 1200 is good for light sp ort. Steve Bennett Light sport cert. going for private pilot. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. =5F-=========================================================== =5F- =5F-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- =5F-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) =5F- =5F-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. 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It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs. This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage. The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less. I don't know the numbers for it. It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs. Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport? I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7. Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine? The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload. Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane. If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight. With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification. As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind. I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way. Ken Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Sbennett3@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport. Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross. I believe up to model 4 1200 is good for light sport. Steve Bennett Light sport cert. going for private pilot. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:04 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Ken sez: >I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way. Good assumption, Ken. :-) >The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less. I don't know >the numbers for it. It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs. My tricycle-gear Model IV-1200 Speedster with Rotax 912S came in at 660 pounds empty. I told the FAA that its maximum weight would be 1230 and they didn't give me a hard time about it. That left a useful load of 570 pounds. >Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport? Yes, if the finished airplane meets the requirements for light sport aircraft. >Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV >would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same >engine...? Less weight + same power = better performance. >After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward >sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making >them more acceptable for light sport use. You'd want to sweep the wings forward with a heavier engine, not a lighter one. A heavier engine would shift the center of gravity forward, requiring a corresponding forward shift of the center of lift, which can be accomplished with the forward sweep. The aircraft I've seen with forward swept wings are usually earlier models with heavy engines. >If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the >Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it >certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight. You'd have an even greater payload if you used a lighter engine (such as the 912) at a max weight of 1550 due to the lower empty weight. Mike G. N728KF Phoenix, AZ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:48 PM PST US From: "R & L Ainsworth" Subject: Kitfox-List: resending: Help-582 ignition fault Hello List, can anyone help with this problem? I have a Model 4 Kitfox with a blue head 582 with 170 hours on the engine.The plane had a gray head 582 which I replaced on 2005. The problem is when I started the plane last week the engine started ok but when a mag check was done one mag was ok but the other gave a drop of 800 to 1000 rpm on the rev counter but the engine itself did not slow down I have done basic checks on the grounding points for the engine and rev counter but I am not an electronics person.I have looked at the Rotax ignition schmatic but its not much help. I dont understand how the rev counter can read ok on one side but not the other. Russell Ainsworth Mod 4 1050 ZK-KIV NEW ZEALAND do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.