---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/17/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:09 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 05:14 AM - Re: new member to the list (dwparker) 3. 05:33 AM - Re: resending: Help-582 ignition fault (eskflyer) 4. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 (Zimmermans) 5. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 (Michael Gibbs) 6. 07:47 AM - Building ? (Zimmermans) 7. 10:12 AM - Re: resending: Help-582 ignition fault (Marco Menezes) 8. 11:11 AM - Happy Holidays !! (jdmcbean) 9. 12:03 PM - Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires (Charles Boccaccio) 10. 01:52 PM - Re: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires (jeff puls) 11. 01:56 PM - Re: Happy Holidays !! (jeff puls) 12. 02:27 PM - Re: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires (GONER752@AOL.COM) 13. 02:34 PM - For Sale (Steve Magdic) 14. 02:54 PM - Merry Christmas (Noel Loveys) 15. 03:02 PM - Re: Merry Christmas (Steve Shinabery) 16. 03:03 PM - Re: Merry Christmas (Sean Moore) 17. 03:23 PM - Re: new member to the list (Roger McConnell) 18. 03:41 PM - Re: new member to the list (kirk hull) 19. 04:18 PM - Re: Merry Christmas (jdmcbean) 20. 05:03 PM - Re: Merry Christmas (Lynn Matteson) 21. 05:09 PM - Re: Need a Rotax 912 Exhaust system for a Speedster Model IV (Lowell Fitt) 22. 05:33 PM - thanks, great response! (great bear) 23. 05:33 PM - Re: Merry Christmas (Michael Gibbs) 24. 05:34 PM - Re: Kitfox 7 E-LSA (dcsfoto) 25. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 (Andy Fultz) 26. 07:19 PM - Re: Primer installation 912UL (Gary) 27. 07:33 PM - Re: new member to the list (Kenneth and Alice Jones) 28. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: new member to the list (Kenneth and Alice Jones) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:04 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 In a message dated 12/17/2007 2:02:43 AM Central Standard Time, kitfox-list@matronics.com writes: http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_111.jpg According To the EAA (per phone call) it is the Kit mfgr that determines the max gross weight for the aircraft. I called John @ Kitfox and he told me the only model that qualified was the Model 4 and below. However the new model that they are making, has been recertified down to 1320 to qualify although it can carry more because of a heavier airframe Regards, Dick Maddux Model 4 classic **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:38 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: new member to the list From: "dwparker" I just received the Airworthiness Certificate for my Series 7 last Wednesday. I certified it at the 1320# with no problem. Ken, for your information my S7 weighed in at 796# empty weight. That weight is with most options, cabin heater, adjustable rudders, one piece turtle deck, and custom upholstery. I am running a 912S with a GSC 3 bladed prop. I also did not skimp on the finish - because I painted it yellow I needed to put down a cross coat of white Poly-Tone over the Poly-Spray before putting two cross coats of yellow finish on it. I would think you should be able to finish yours well under the 900# you targeted. Dana Parker N474DP Series 7 w/912S Westport, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152657#152657 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:13 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: resending: Help-582 ignition fault From: "eskflyer" Mine did the same thing . the coil for the rev counter died . I use a tinytach it is accurate and gives me a perfect reading everytime and only cost about 45 bucks . -------- FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA Leni's FULL-LOTUS floats on MY plane forever Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152660#152660 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:24 AM PST US From: "Zimmermans" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 Q & A: Question of the Week EAA Aviation Services I'm looking at purchasing an Acro Sport I project which is well on its way, but still far from being finished. The plans call for it to have a gross w eight of 1350 lbs, which doesn't fit the new light-sport aircraft category. If I were to finish this project, can I state that the gross weight is 132 0 lbs when I submit the paperwork=3F Or is the FAA going to go by the publish ed gross weight of 1350 lbs=3F Answer: As the builder of the individual aircraft in question, you have the option of setting the gross weight at whatever level you feel is appropriate. If y ou want to set the gross weight at 1320 instead of 1350, you are welcome to do that. Providing all the other parameters of aircraft configuration and performance meet the definition of a light-sport aircraft (see EAA's sport pilot website), your aircraft will be eligible for operation by sport pilot s. ----- Original Message ----- From: Catz631@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:07 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 In a message dated 12/17/2007 2:02:43 AM Central Standard Time, kitfox-li st@matronics.com writes: http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd=5F111.jpg According To the EAA (per phone call) it is the Kit mfgr that determines the max gross weight for the aircraft. I called John @ Kitfox and he told m e the only model that qualified was the Model 4 and below. However the new model that they are making, has been recertified down to 1320 to qualify al though it can carry more because of a heavier airframe Regards, Dick Maddux Model 4 classic --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. =5F-=========================================================== =5F- =5F-= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- =5F-= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) =5F- =5F-= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on =5F-= the Contribution link below to find out more about =5F-= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts! =5F- =5F-= List Contribution Web Site: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F- =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F- =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FKitfox-List =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F-=========================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- 07 11:36 AM -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:38 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 Dick sez: >According To the EAA (per phone call) it is the Kit mfgr that >determines the max gross weight for the aircraft. As far as the FAA is concerned, YOU are the airplane's manufacturer. The company that supplied the kit is NOT the manufacturer, that's why you are required to build at least 51% of it. As the manufacturer, YOU determine all of the pertinent values for your airplane. In most cases, since people do use figures supplied by the kit manufacturer, the FAA doesn't ask for much documentation of the numbers you provide, but that is at the discretion of the examiner who signs off your airworthiness certificate. Mike G. N728KF Phoenix, AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:35 AM PST US From: "Zimmermans" Subject: Kitfox-List: Building ? I am building a series 5. Can anyone with a newer kit tell me how he or she covered the area (6 X 33 inches) under the rudder pedals=3F I want to have a removable aluminum panel there. I have seen some planes with a removable p anel. The panel is held in place by rivets or screws into aluminum clips c ut from an extrusion and epoxyed to the tubes. My manual does not show this . If this is the current method, what is the part number for the extrusion=3F If the newer kits have another method I would like to know how it is done. Thanks Jim Z Almost ready to cover fuselage. Lake Elmo MN. -- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:15 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: resending: Help-582 ignition fault Russell, Because you detect no change in engine speed when you shut down one CDI, and because you get an accurate rpm reading on the other CDI, I'm going to guess that you have a digital "tiny tach" already installed. If not, ignore the rest of this post. If you'll have a look you'll find that the "sensor" for this device is no more than a wire wrapped 3-4 turns around one of your plug wires. It measures rpms by detecting the high voltage electronic pulse in this lead. So, when you shut down the CDI that fires though that lead, the digital readout will drop dramatically. At least that's been my experience. I have both digital tiny tach and a very inaccurate analog installed. I use the digital for accurate measurement under normal operation and the analog only to give relative drop during run-up. One day I'll treat myself to an accurate analog instrument that will do both. R & L Ainsworth wrote: Hello List, can anyone help with this problem? I have a Model 4 Kitfox with a blue head 582 with 170 hours on the engine.The plane had a gray head 582 which I replaced on 2005. The problem is when I started the plane last week the engine started ok but when a mag check was done one mag was ok but the other gave a drop of 800 to 1000 rpm on the rev counter but the engine itself did not slow down I have done basic checks on the grounding points for the engine and rev counter but I am not an electronics person.I have looked at the Rotax ignition schmatic but its not much help. I dont understand how the rev counter can read ok on one side but not the other. Russell Ainsworth Mod 4 1050 ZK-KIV NEW ZEALAND do not archive Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:11:58 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: Kitfox-List: Happy Holidays !! Hope everyone has a Safe and Wonderful Holiday !! It has been a great year ! Thank you for all the support from the Kitfox family ! If its for a Kitfox.. give us a shout first.. I would like to address a couple of items that have been talked about recently. Avid vs Kitfox This can be a controversial issue because people have their own accounts of what they have read, heard and believe. Sometimes 3rd and 4th hand. There are always at least 2 sides to ever story. Dean and Dan played their roles as did William Piper and C.G. Taylor.. Im sure there are stories of Aeronca as well I do know a bit of the history from some of the first flights of the Avid to today.. The Avid and Kitfox were evolving quickly in the early 80s. While an interesting read historically, the Kitfox aircraft today is significantly different. Early Models 84DD is being restored as I understand for a very good cause, 85DD is in Utah undergoing a conversion, and the first production Kitfox off the assembly line was delivered to a dealer rep and is now in our hangar. Light Sport A confusing issue. Bottom line. All Kitfox models can qualify to be operated by a Sport Pilot. The Series 7 Super Sport with the Rotax 912 ULS engine can be built in the 750 to 800 empty weight range. With the Continental or Lycomings they are typically 900 plus The Super Sport has been tested up to 1550 max gross.. Therefore it can be certified with the 1320 or 1430 (float plane) gross weights and operated by a Sport Pilot. Lets not confuse an Aircraft Definition (E-LSA / S-LSA / Experimental AB) with an Airmen Certification (Sport Pilot certificate / Private Pilot certificate). A sport pilot can operate a part 23 certified aircraft or an Experimental AB aircraft as long as that aircraft meets the definition of LSA and he/she is rated for that aircraft. In accordance with (IAW) the current regulations if the aircraft already has a airworthiness certificate and was certificated at a gross weight more then the 1320 It cannot be lowered and therefore cannot be operated by a Sport Pilot. This is a heated topic in many circles. Wing Sweep The forward wing sweep is suggested when utilizing the heavier engine choices not with the Rotax power. Pic in Laramie The picture is of the Model IV Speedster N91KS. Stock Model IV Speedster powered with the 80 Rotax 912 UL. The photo was taken by Charles Denny as was many of the marketing photos. I also placed many of these posters in FBOs while in transit from one airshow to another Hopefully well have another such poster in the future to place in FBOs. The signatures are: C.O. Denny (Charles Denny) Marketing and photographer still in the area and still taking photography Skip Cederquist Engineering, Demo pilot, A&P mechanic Went to Bonners Ferry and is now working locally for a major repair station and privately as an A&P Patrick Rediker Demo Pilot, CFI Went with the Red Barrons for a time then last I knew was flying with the St Alphonsus Life Flight Idaho How did they get 3 We would fly 2 or 3 aircraft to several shows.. most likely that was on the way to Oshkosh. Our Factory fly-in is scheduled for Labor Day weekend 2008.. Hope to see you here. Again.. Have a SAFE and WONDERFUL HOLIDAY !!!! NOW Go fly !! after all lets not forget that Orville and Wilber had the first tube and rag aircraft 104 years ago today !!! Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" 2:13 PM ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:50 PM PST US From: Charles Boccaccio Subject: Kitfox-List: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires A few months ago there was talk on the list about bush tires on Kitfoxes. Please find attached a picture of my KF3 with Nankang tires. I've rolled the plane up to 45MPH (well above normal operating speed) and they roll just fine and landings are a little more forgiving. Charlie Kitfox 3 --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:45 PM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires Charlie, What kind of useful load do you have with the tires and Grove gear? Jeff Classic IV ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Boccaccio To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 3:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires A few months ago there was talk on the list about bush tires on Kitfoxes. Please find attached a picture of my KF3 with Nankang tires. I've rolled the plane up to 45MPH (well above normal operating speed) and they roll just fine and landings are a little more forgiving. Charlie Kitfox 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:12 PM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Happy Holidays !! Well said! Thanks John. Jeff Classic IV CMH ----- Original Message ----- From: jdmcbean To: Kitfox List Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:10 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Happy Holidays !! Hope everyone has a Safe and Wonderful Holiday !! It has been a great year ! Thank you for all the support from the Kitfox family ! If its for a Kitfox.. give us a shout first.. I would like to address a couple of items that have been talked about recently. Avid vs Kitfox This can be a controversial issue because people have their own accounts of what they have read, heard and believe. Sometimes 3rd and 4th hand. There are always at least 2 sides to ever story. Dean and Dan played their roles as did William Piper and C.G. Taylor.. I'm sure there are stories of Aeronca as well. I do know a bit of the history from some of the first flights of the Avid to today.. The Avid and Kitfox were evolving quickly in the early 80's. While an interesting read historically, the Kitfox aircraft today is significantly different. Early Models 84DD is being restored as I understand for a very good cause, 85DD is in Utah undergoing a conversion, and the first production Kitfox off the assembly line was delivered to a dealer rep and is now in our hangar. Light Sport A confusing issue. Bottom line. All Kitfox models can qualify to be operated by a Sport Pilot. The Series 7 Super Sport with the Rotax 912 ULS engine can be built in the 750 to 800 empty weight range. With the Continental or Lycomings they are typically 900 plus. The Super Sport has been tested up to 1550 max gross.. Therefore it can be certified with the 1320 or 1430 (float plane) gross weights and operated by a Sport Pilot. Lets not confuse an Aircraft Definition (E-LSA / S-LSA / Experimental AB) with an Airmen Certification (Sport Pilot certificate / Private Pilot certificate). A sport pilot can operate a part 23 certified aircraft or an Experimental AB aircraft as long as that aircraft meets the definition of LSA and he/she is rated for that aircraft. In accordance with (IAW) the current regulations. if the aircraft already has a airworthiness certificate and was certificated at a gross weight more then the 1320 It cannot be lowered and therefore cannot be operated by a Sport Pilot. This is a heated topic in many circles. Wing Sweep The forward wing sweep is suggested when utilizing the heavier engine choices. not with the Rotax power. Pic in Laramie The picture is of the Model IV Speedster N91KS. Stock Model IV Speedster powered with the 80 Rotax 912 UL. The photo was taken by Charles Denny as was many of the marketing photos. I also placed many of these posters in FBO's while in transit from one airshow to another. Hopefully we'll have another such poster in the future to place in FBO's. The signatures are: C.O. Denny (Charles Denny) - Marketing and photographer - still in the area and still taking photography Skip Cederquist - Engineering, Demo pilot, A&P mechanic - Went to Bonners Ferry and is now working locally for a major repair station and privately as an A&P Patrick Rediker - Demo Pilot, CFI - Went with the Red Barrons for a time then last I knew was flying with the St Alphonsus Life Flight - Idaho How did they get 3. We would fly 2 or 3 aircraft to several shows.. most likely that was on the way to Oshkosh. Our Factory fly-in is scheduled for Labor Day weekend 2008.. Hope to see you here. Again.. Have a SAFE and WONDERFUL HOLIDAY !!!! NOW Go fly !! after all lets not forget that Orville and Wilber had the first tube and rag aircraft. 104 years ago today !!! Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:24 PM PST US From: GONER752@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bush tires: Kitfox3 on Nankang Tires Charlie, Could you provide some specifics? Size, price, source? Thanks, Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 do not archive **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:00 PM PST US From: "Steve Magdic" Subject: Kitfox-List: For Sale Due to financial concerns I have to put my KitFox up for sale. It's a model 3 with the Model 4 wing. I thought I'd offer it to the Matronics KitFox group before I post it on Barnstormers or some other web based selling platform. I figure it will be in good hands if someone here decided to purchase it. I'll post some pics soon. Here's the description: FOR SALE KitFox Model 3 With Model 4 Wing (Droop Tips) Registered Experimental Rotax 912 UL - 400 Hrs. Engine and Airframe 3 Blade Warp Prop (Overhauled in 07) 20 Gallon Fuel New 3 Leaf Tail Spring with Soft Rubber Tail Wheel Cargo Pod Snow Skis with all Hardware and ReTrax (Ski Mounted) Retractable Roller Wheels For Moving Aircraft Across Hard Surface/Hanger Left Side Toe Brakes Only New Glass - 06/07 All Service Bulletins Complied With Condition Inspection 11/07 Complete Builders Logs, Construction Manuals with Photos Included Engine and Airframe Log Books Up To Date and Included Standard VFR Panel Needs Nothing - Buy It And Fly It Asking $21,500 Contact: Steve Magdic stevemagdic@wi.rr.com (preferred) Home: 262-820-9938 Cell: 262-370-3182 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:50 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas I have a hard time with being politically correct. (My problem) "Merry Christmas" was good enough for my Grandfathers and my father so It's good enough for me. It must be something about seeing my name in lights this time every year. May each and every one of you enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New Year. Noel ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:57 PM PST US From: Steve Shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas Thanks Noel.and the best for you and your family.and we all hope to see you flying again soon.I hope that you will have blue skys in the new year.and wish you a speedy recovery. Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 582 Noel Loveys wrote: > > I have a hard time with being politically correct. (My problem) Merry > Christmas was good enough for my Grandfathers and my father so Its > good enough for me. It must be something about seeing my name in > lights this time every year. > > May each and every one of you enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy and > prosperous New Year. > > Noel > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:01 PM PST US From: "Sean Moore" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas Noel, Noel! On Dec 16, 2007 6:56 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > I have a hard time with being politically correct. (My problem) "Merry > Christmas" was good enough for my Grandfathers and my father so It's good > enough for me. It must be something about seeing my name in lights this > time every year. > > > May each and every one of you enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy and > prosperous New Year. > > > Noel > > * > > * > > -- Sean Moore moore.sean@gmail.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:48 PM PST US From: "Roger McConnell" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Ken, My Series 7 came in at 800 lbs. empty with the Rotax 100 horse engine. After adding wheel pants and a few accessories it may have gone up to 825 but still with the Rotax you should to able to come in under 850 lbs even with a full panel. Be careful on registering in the Light Sport category. You can do that but then you will have to take the 8 hour repairman's course to qualify for the repairman's certificate so you can do your own condition inspections. This is what the FAA guys told me when I was getting ready to register my plane. Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls Flying sense Jan. 06 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth and Alice Jones Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light sport. It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs. This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage. The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less. I don't know the numbers for it. It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs. Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport? I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7. Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine? The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload. Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane. If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight. With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification. As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind. I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way. Ken Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Sbennett3@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport. Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross. I believe up to model 4 1200 is good for light sport. Steve Bennett Light sport cert. going for private pilot. _____ See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:17 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list You can certify as experimental and still fly it as a sport as long as it fits the deff _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger McConnell Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Ken, My Series 7 came in at 800 lbs. empty with the Rotax 100 horse engine. After adding wheel pants and a few accessories it may have gone up to 825 but still with the Rotax you should to able to come in under 850 lbs even with a full panel. Be careful on registering in the Light Sport category. You can do that but then you will have to take the 8 hour repairman's course to qualify for the repairman's certificate so you can do your own condition inspections. This is what the FAA guys told me when I was getting ready to register my plane. Roger McConnell, Duncan, OK Model 7 Trigear, Rotax 912uls Flying sense Jan. 06 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth and Alice Jones Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I'm in the process of building a Series 7 and I plan to have it specified at a gross weight of 1320 lbs. to qualify as light sport. It is my understanding that the empty weight of a 7 will be roughly 870 to 920 lbs. depending on engine, accessories and how good I am at keeping it light. Lets say I achieve an empty weight of 900 lbs. This will give me 420 lbs. for people, fuel, oil and baggage. The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less. I don't know the numbers for it. It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs. Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport? I'm planning on using the 100 hp Rotax on my Series 7. Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine, but with perhaps a little less than 430 lbs. payload with that engine? The Series 7 was designed (prior to the light sport rules) as a bush type plane with a 1550 gross weight using at that time relatively heavy Lycoming and Continental engines. Skystar advertised 150 lbs. allowable in the baggage area. After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more acceptable for light sport use. So, if you want a light sport, you simply specify your homebuilt Series 7 with a gross of 1320 lbs and its a light sport - but with a lower permissible payload. Your choice of engines and other items that add weight determines the amount of payload permissible in your new light sport airplane. If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 lb. gross weight. With the Series 7 you can have it either way, but you must make your decision before certification. As someone said in an earlier notice, if you have it certified initially as 1550 gross, you cannot later change your mind. I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any way. Ken Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Sbennett3@aol.com Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list I was told that any 5,6,or7 was heavy for light sport. Rules are simple, 1320 lb. or less gross. I believe up to model 4 1200 is good for light sport. Steve Bennett Light sport cert. going for private pilot. _____ See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http ://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:43 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas OK.. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !! Mele Kalikimaka, God Jul, Pier Noel Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas I have a hard time with being politically correct. (My problem) Merry Christmas was good enough for my Grandfathers and my father so Its good enough for me. It must be something about seeing my name in lights this time every year. May each and every one of you enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New Year. Noel 2:13 PM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:14 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas Good for you, Noel...and I'm right there with ya, seconding the "Merry Christmas" sentiment. But just to stay on topic,sort of, I wanted to fly for the last two days because of the 8-10" of new snow that fell, but alas, my carb is waiting parts from Bing. What a bummer...skis waiting, but engine had other ideas...ratz! Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/440+ hrs do not archive On Dec 16, 2007, at 8:56 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > I have a hard time with being politically correct. (My problem) > Merry Christmas was good enough for my Grandfathers and my > father so Its good enough for me. It must be something about > seeing my name in lights this time every year. > > > May each and every one of you enjoy a Merry Christmas and a Happy > and prosperous New Year. > > > Noel > > ============================================================ _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:56 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Need a Rotax 912 Exhaust system for a Speedster Model IV Paul there is an exhaust system as we speak on Barnstormers. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Morel" Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 8:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Need a Rotax 912 Exhaust system for a Speedster Model IV Still plugging away with the Speedster project and looking for a muffler/exhaust system for a Rotax 912. If someone has one they are not using, I'd be happy to buy it. New or used. Paul Morel Speedster Model IV Locust Grove, Georgia ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:16 PM PST US From: great bear Subject: Kitfox-List: thanks, great response! I thank all who responded to my new member to the list ad..I read them all! I would like to address those who expressed a concern about sport light gross weight issues and let you know that this is a new kit and never certified..I believe that many of you are correct and that the 5,6&7 series can be either sport light or the higher 1550 category.....once you decide you can not go back....I will be going sport light for sure as I have seen too many of my friends loose their medicals....now I hope to find a few who have built their 5 (or higher series) and can give me some pointers and hints to avoid any pitfalls in building my 5 outback.....nearly all of my time (25 years) has been in taildraggers so I know that will not be a problem (my glasair being the hottest one) just need to know what the actual performance with a jabiru 2200 would be and any recommendations on any 4 stroke engine prop combinations...I am also looking for some cowling if anyone knows of any...like to use the sleek looking versus the classic bump cowl....I am sure I will have a lot of questions to ask as I try to spool up on these aircraft.....Thanks again for your help and feel free to contact me direct via e-mail av8r2488@yahoo.com GARY Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:23 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Merry Christmas I celebrated the 104th anniversary of the Wright Brother's first flight by getting a fresh BFR this morning in the Turbo Arrow so, along with the medical certificate I received last month, I'm good for two more years! My instructor and I then traded some hood time with each other and we are both instrument current, too. :-) Happy Holidays everyone! Mike G. N728KF (and N31870 today) Phoenix, AZ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 7 E-LSA From: "dcsfoto" First,my Kitfox 3 is 15 years old and I am the 3rd owner. we fell in love with Kitfox just wanted a little more speed and baggage. not a clue on manhours just know it was a lot less than the CH-701 Zenair. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152793#152793 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:05 PM PST US From: "Andy Fultz" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 Dick, What you say here is correct just, misinterpeted by some. Remember that the kit supplier IS NOT the manufacturer. The builder IS the manufacturer and you, as the builder, can set your gross weight to what ever you want. I'm sure you would have no problem at all setting the gross weight at a figure less than what the kit supplier suggest for the max gross. Setting the max gross weight at a figure greater than that recommended by the supplier may bring on a horse of a different color. Andy F. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:08 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 12/16/07 In a message dated 12/17/2007 2:02:43 AM Central Standard Time, kitfox-list@matronics.com writes: http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_111.jpg According To the EAA (per phone call) it is the Kit mfgr that determines the max gross weight for the aircraft. I called John @ Kitfox and he told me the only model that qualified was the Model 4 and below. However the new model that they are making, has been recertified down to 1320 to qualify although it can carry more because of a heavier airframe Regards, Dick Maddux Model 4 classic ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- See AOL's top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape for winter. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:26 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Primer installation 912UL From: "Gary" One final note from me. I managed to drill a .025 hole through the center of the 3.5mm screws that plugged the carb primer fittings. Then the head of the screw was filed down so the diameter matched the O.D. of the brass barbed fitting. The jets screw in nice and tight and the poly primer lines slip on normally. -------- Gary Del Bel Belluz Toronto, IV / 912UL Just getting started Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152811#152811 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:04 PM PST US From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list Thanks Michael: You are right. The forward sweep was for the heavier engine. I guess I was tired when I wrote that. I think Skystar introduced the rearward sweep to accommodate the Rotax engines. Ken Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gibbs" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:35 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new member to the list > > Ken sez: > >>I assume the folks in this group will let me know if I'm incorrect in any >>way. > > Good assumption, Ken. :-) > >>The empty weight of a Series IV 1200 is somewhat less. I don't know the >>numbers for it. It's gross weight I think is 1200 lbs. > > My tricycle-gear Model IV-1200 Speedster with Rotax 912S came in at 660 > pounds empty. I told the FAA that its maximum weight would be 1230 and > they didn't give me a hard time about it. That left a useful load of 570 > pounds. > >>Does this suggest that either one would be OK for light sport? > > Yes, if the finished airplane meets the requirements for light sport > aircraft. > >>Am I correct in assuming the same engine on the lighter Series IV would >>provide better performance than the heavier 7 with the same engine...? > > Less weight + same power = better performance. > >>After the new light sport rules they introduced a slightly forward sweep >>of the wings allowing for use of lighter Rotax engines making them more >>acceptable for light sport use. > > You'd want to sweep the wings forward with a heavier engine, not a lighter > one. A heavier engine would shift the center of gravity forward, > requiring a corresponding forward shift of the center of lift, which can > be accomplished with the forward sweep. > > The aircraft I've seen with forward swept wings are usually earlier models > with heavy engines. > >>If you want a bush plane to carry a heavier load you use the Continental >>IO-240 without the forward wing sweep and have it certified with a 1550 >>lb. gross weight. > > You'd have an even greater payload if you used a lighter engine (such as > the 912) at a max weight of 1550 due to the lower empty weight. > > Mike G. > N728KF > Phoenix, AZ > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:04 PM PST US From: "Kenneth and Alice Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: new member to the list Thanks Dana, your empty weight of 796 lbs. is really good news. I had been led to believe an S7 would be much heavier. I don't recall were I got that information, but I'm glad I was wrong. Another example of good data I receive from this list. Ken Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwparker" Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:14 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: new member to the list > > I just received the Airworthiness Certificate for my Series 7 last > Wednesday. I certified it at the 1320# with no problem. > > Ken, for your information my S7 weighed in at 796# empty weight. That > weight is with most options, cabin heater, adjustable rudders, one piece > turtle deck, and custom upholstery. I am running a 912S with a GSC 3 > bladed prop. I also did not skimp on the finish - because I painted it > yellow I needed to put down a cross coat of white Poly-Tone over the > Poly-Spray before putting two cross coats of yellow finish on it. I would > think you should be able to finish yours well under the 900# you targeted. > > Dana Parker > N474DP Series 7 w/912S > Westport, IN > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=152657#152657 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.