Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (fox5flyer)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (Lynn Matteson)
3. 05:18 AM - Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Lynn Matteson)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Dee Young)
5. 05:33 AM - Re: Short changing ourselves (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 05:38 AM - [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Michel Verheughe)
7. 05:42 AM - Re: Take a look at my videos (Catz631@aol.com)
8. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (John W. Hart)
9. 06:09 AM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (Russell Lassetter)
10. 06:41 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Lynn Matteson)
11. 07:22 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Marco Menezes)
12. 07:34 AM - Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Marco Menezes)
13. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) ()
14. 08:34 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Lynn Matteson)
15. 09:40 AM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Chris Budd)
16. 10:39 AM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (dave)
17. 10:41 AM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
18. 10:56 AM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
19. 11:03 AM - Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (fox5flyer)
20. 11:08 AM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
21. 11:14 AM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (dave)
22. 11:42 AM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Michel Verheughe)
23. 12:06 PM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Michel Verheughe)
24. 12:23 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (fox5flyer)
25. 01:00 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Marco Menezes)
26. 01:11 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Michel Verheughe)
27. 01:24 PM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Lyle Persels)
28. 01:27 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (dave)
29. 02:23 PM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (Guy Buchanan)
30. 04:05 PM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (N81JG@aol.com)
31. 04:08 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (dwight purdy)
32. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Short changing ourselves (Steve Shinabery)
33. 04:21 PM - cabin heater muff style (Don G)
34. 04:33 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Dee Young)
35. 07:21 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (dwight purdy)
36. 07:54 PM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (ron schick)
37. 10:01 PM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Andy Fultz)
38. 10:39 PM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (84KF)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Hola, Pedro. Excellent slide show! Thank you for sharing.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: PEDRO PEREZ
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS...
LIST: LOOKS MY VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE
SEND ME ANY COMMENTS!!!
WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/KITFOXN212PR
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Orange Peel!!! |
I'm assuming that you have the instructional video or DVD, or at
least the latest Procedure Manual, and that you are using ALL Poly-
Fiber products. What did you use for the "presurface cleaner"? Poly-
Fiber says to use MEK or reducer and CLEAN rags. You did brush on the
first coat, right? Because all the Poly-Fiber products come with the
same orange and yellow labels, it is easy to grab a can thinking you
have the right product, only to find later that was the wrong can.
(Jim Miller, one of their distributors, has said they have talked
about changing the individual labels, or making them more
identifiable.) Jim is a great resource for answering these questions
(the orange peel, etc.) He is at: 1-877-877-3334 or www.poly-
fiber.com . He and wife Dondi give workshops in their area,
Columbus, Ohio, and various locations around the country.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/450+ hrs
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:11 AM, wadegreaves wrote:
> <reinagreaves@comcast.net>
>
> Was ready to take the next step in covering today and start
> spraying the polybrush. Prepped the surfaces of my horz,rudder,and
> elevator using the presurface cleaner. Mixed up my 3:1 mix and
> upon spraying, was in awe of the most impressive orange peeling I
> have ever seen. I thought it might be just one component so after
> getting the mess off of the elevator, I tried the rudder. Another
> feat in orange peeling!!!
>
> Any experience/advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155681#155681
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Good job, Pedro.
I had to smile at the closing title "Joint me..." Every time I used
that phrase, someone would hand me a funny-looking cigarette. : )
Lynn
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:33 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> Hola, Pedro. Excellent slide show! Thank you for sharing.
> Deke
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: PEDRO PEREZ
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:49 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS...
>
> LIST: LOOKS MY VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE
>
> SEND ME ANY COMMENTS!!!
>
> WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/KITFOXN212PR
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://
> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://
> forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/
> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c_-
> ============================================================ _-
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Good Jobe Pedro!
Dee
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: PEDRO PEREZ<mailto:KITFOX@CHOICECABLE.NET>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS...
LIST: LOOKS MY VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE
SEND ME ANY COMMENTS!!!
WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/KITFOXN212PR<http://www.youtube.com/KITFOXN212PR>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Short changing ourselves |
In a message dated 1/3/2008 2:01:59 AM Central Standard Time,
kitfox-list@matronics.com writes:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/mt_rainier_949.jpg
Steve,
That is one of the best stories I have read! Good for you! I can see
that you have a lot of aviation experience and I am glad you have that airplane.
You deserved it. It couldn't go to a better home. The old adage "What comes
around goes around" is certainly true in this case.
Kindest regards,
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Rotax 912 UL
Pensacola, Fl.
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 6
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| Subject: | [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> I had to smile at the closing title "Joint me..." Every time I used
> that phrase, someone would hand me a funny-looking cigarette. : )
Don't bogart that joint, my friend
Pass it over to me.
Roll another one
Just like the other one.
You've been holding on to it
And I sure will like a hit.
... shows my age, right? :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Take a look at my videos |
In a message dated 1/3/2008 2:01:59 AM Central Standard Time,
kitfox-list@matronics.com writes:
WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/KITFOXN212PR
Pedro,
What a fine inspiring video ! Excellent production ! Keep up the good
work and have fun!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
912 UL
Pensacola,Fl
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
A simple truth: Any product or service is worth exactly what you can
convince someone to pay for it.
Your last paragraph is essentially the same statement. I've been told that
some of the things I've sold were priced way too high, and some of the
things that I have bought were way too high. I've had folks attempt to
degrade the property up for sale, and attempt to embellish what they are
trying to sell. The simple part of the equation is kind of like the
difference between rape and seduction. That difference is salesmanship
John Hart
Model IV
Latimer County, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:02 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!!
Ray sez:
>I only put this subject out there because, well maybe my own
>feelings of what I thought this fine airplane should be worth.
>Everyone has made good points on the value of the Kitfox!
What we have proven with this discussion is that opinions are like
butt holes--everybody has one. Anyone who has poured their blood,
sweat, and tears into building an airplane will have a different
notion of the value of their creation than someone looking to
low-ball a seller on price.
Nobody has brought up the less tangible aspects of buying or selling
an experimental aircraft. Like it or not, we live in an increasingly
litigious world and the builder has considerable liability exposure
when they sell their aircraft. I find the notion of selling an
airplane I built to a stranger very frightening! The buyer is also
at risk because the seller likely does not have the means to back up
the product in the event of a problem.
Unfortunately, every seller has their own circumstances to be
concerned with and ultimately it comes down to what a willing buyer
and willing seller agree to. Take a look at the housing market right
now--encouraging sellers to hold out doesn't change a thing.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 9
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|
I also have had excellent service from Jim and Dondi Miller. They are a
"hands on" company and give excellent advice. They can also accurately
match paint for you. They are much more than just "order takers" and that's
refreshing in this day and age.
Russ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:51 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Orange Peel!!!
>
>
>
> I'm assuming that you have the instructional video or DVD, or at
> least the latest Procedure Manual, and that you are using ALL Poly-
> Fiber products. What did you use for the "presurface cleaner"? Poly-
> Fiber says to use MEK or reducer and CLEAN rags. You did brush on the
> first coat, right? Because all the Poly-Fiber products come with the
> same orange and yellow labels, it is easy to grab a can thinking you
> have the right product, only to find later that was the wrong can.
> (Jim Miller, one of their distributors, has said they have talked
> about changing the individual labels, or making them more
> identifiable.) Jim is a great resource for answering these questions
> (the orange peel, etc.) He is at: 1-877-877-3334 or www.poly-
> fiber.com . He and wife Dondi give workshops in their area,
> Columbus, Ohio, and various locations around the country.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/450+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 1:11 AM, wadegreaves wrote:
>
> > <reinagreaves@comcast.net>
> >
> > Was ready to take the next step in covering today and start
> > spraying the polybrush. Prepped the surfaces of my horz,rudder,and
> > elevator using the presurface cleaner. Mixed up my 3:1 mix and
> > upon spraying, was in awe of the most impressive orange peeling I
> > have ever seen. I thought it might be just one component so after
> > getting the mess off of the elevator, I tried the rudder. Another
> > feat in orange peeling!!!
> >
> > Any experience/advice would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155681#155681
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Absolutely, Michel.....from "Easy Rider" the movie, wasn't it? And
done by The Holy Model Riders? or something like that....my memory is
kinda fading, and I'm gettin' the munchies just thinkin' 'bout it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/450+ hrs
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
>> I had to smile at the closing title "Joint me..." Every time I used
>> that phrase, someone would hand me a funny-looking cigarette. : )
>
> Don't bogart that joint, my friend
> Pass it over to me.
> Roll another one
> Just like the other one.
> You've been holding on to it
> And I sure will like a hit.
>
> ... shows my age, right? :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
> do not archive
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Holy Modal Rounders, as I recall (somewhat vaguely, as tho through a pall of smoke).
;-)
do not archive
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
Absolutely, Michel.....from "Easy Rider" the movie, wasn't it? And
done by The Holy Model Riders? or something like that....my memory is
kinda fading, and I'm gettin' the munchies just thinkin' 'bout it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/450+ hrs
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
>> I had to smile at the closing title "Joint me..." Every time I used
>> that phrase, someone would hand me a funny-looking cigarette. : )
>
> Don't bogart that joint, my friend
> Pass it over to me.
> Roll another one
> Just like the other one.
> You've been holding on to it
> And I sure will like a hit.
>
> ... shows my age, right? :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> forums.matronics.com
> www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Beautiful job Pedro! Congratulations on successful completion. I recognize that
grin!
Do not archive.
PEDRO PEREZ <KITFOX@CHOICECABLE.NET> wrote:
LIST: LOOKS MY VIDEOS IN YOUTUBE
SEND ME ANY COMMENTS!!!
WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/KITFOXN212PR
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Lowell, Are you trying to say that my bungee chords stored in a box in my attic
since 1994 are no good?(LOL). Really, are there other bungee geared aiplanes
out there that use limit cables?----- Leon Morris/Classic 4(94)/60%/like Jab/Flower
Mound,TX
---- Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Good question. What I am suggesting is that people consider the possible
> outcomes of the various scenerios. As you recall, I chose the heavy spring
> gear rather than a more cost effestive pair or dikes in my right hand.
> When I build again I will likely use tube gear for weight issues, and due to
> the destroyed bulkhead will not install the limit cables - my choice. But
> then none of my friends flying with bungee gear have limit cables. And then
> again, that is a personal preference. But their choice was based on the
> possible structural damage with a hard landing.
>
> Now a question for you. With properly maintained bungees, what is the
> greater likelyhood, a broken bungee, or a messed up landing. Realizing that
> there are different levels of proficiency, one has to consider all sides of
> the issue, which is only what I propose. But consider the poor goofballs
> like Mark or Wray who might ding their airplanes at any moment with a hard
> landing. Mark has nearly 2000 hours in three models of Kitfoxes and Wray
> has 3000 hours in DC-3s and 1000 in his Fox, not to mention the Storches and
> Learjets - just kidding. Neither have limit cables for the mentioned reason
> and we have talked about it many times. They just change out the bungees in
> a timely manner. Did I mention off airport landings - tons and lots of
> first timers too.
>
> I just thought of another question. Has anyone ever heard of bungees
> breaking and the gear hanging on the limit cables or damaging a prop? The
> Mil Spec for 3/8" bungees is a minimum breaking force of 300 lbs. Multiply
> that by 7 wraps and that's some serious Gs as well for gear legs that
> supports between 275 and 400 lbs each.
>
> I searched the Service Bulletins and there is nothing, as you found. There
> is, interestingly, nothing on the recommended frequency of bungee
> replacemtent either - whatever that means.
>
> Again, I have to say. I have no personal interest in what people do with
> their airplanes. For some reason, I find it difficult to sit on my hands
> when I know of experiences that others have had that might shed a bit of
> light on an issue.
>
> Question the Kitfox supplier - good idea. Best to make a decision after all
> the info is in.
>
> Improper installation. Who knows, but the one that most easily comes to
> mind - a good friend, we used to room together at the Skystar Fly-ins and I
> remember all the details. He was showing off at a local fly-in event at a
> private one way strip. He was nicknamed Dr. Downhill after that. He was an
> engineer by profession. Who was that man :-)
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:31 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv)
>
>
> >
> > Lowell,
> >
> > I am still wondering why you are suggesting no safety cable on the bungee
> > gear? There are there for a reason to arrest the gear in the event of a
> > bungee failure. Without it alot of damage could occur. If there was a
> > safety bulletin that I missed please post it.
> >
> > If the reason to not use them is to not bend a cross member in the event
> > of a hard landing then i would suggest some one better learn to land
> > better. You are talking some serious G's here to do that kind of damage.
> > Possibly close to what you experienced in your accident.
> >
> > I would highly recommend that you talk to your Kitfox supplier to see if
> > it is advisable to not use safety cables -- they are there for a reason.
> >
> > Next point -- is it possible that the cable in the cases you mention where
> > never properly installed and possibly too long or short of a loop that
> > caused this damage?
> >
> > The bungee suspension could be made stronger and eliminate the Bungees by
> > using a compression spring type suspension , but you would end up like the
> > Grove or Hammerhead gear with extra weight that was not necessary. Goes
> > back to the Keep it simple theory. How does formula go? For every
> > pound of weight you add to your plane you will lose 3 to 4 FPM of climb
> > rate.
> >
> >
> > Speaking of bent tubing -- I would rather see Bent 4130 tubing then
> > cracked or broken tubing that was too brittle.
> >
> > --------
> > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> > Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> > http://www.cfisher.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155645#155645
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
So this is where all the '60's children went, eh? They all took up
flying, because the other way of getting high got too: (a) expensive
(b) illegal (c) fattening
Lynn
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2008, at 10:22 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> Holy Modal Rounders, as I recall (somewhat vaguely, as tho through
> a pall of smoke). ;-)
>
> do not archive
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
> Absolutely, Michel.....from "Easy Rider" the movie, wasn't it? And
> done by The Holy Model Riders? or something like that....my memory is
> kinda fading, and I'm gettin' the munchies just thinkin' 'bout it. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/450+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> >> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> >> I had to smile at the closing title "Joint me..." Every time I used
> >> that phrase, someone would hand me a _-
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Dave wrote:
Don you make some great points. I Too have been bewildered why Kitfox are SO DAMN
CHEAP!!!!
According to some on supercub.org forum Kitfox are not real airplanes like cubs
..... HEll who wold want a cub that is 60 years old and got worse performances
?
Look at it this way most CUBS cannot CARRY their won weight on top of empty weight.
Can a Kitfox ? -- Depends on empty weight of course.
NEw Super sprt i think is about 700 lbs or so and it goes to 1550 ?
MY 1050 is 550 empty on wheels and can carry me a nd passenger 450lbs plus
18 gals of gas (110lbs plus another 6 gals in 3 - 2 gal jerry ans bedind seat
and about 700 emtpy on amphibs and can carry same 2 guys plus baggage plus 16 more
gallons in floats --add it up
700 + 110 plus 450 + 96 lbs + case beer and food. --yeah it adds up eh !!
even takes 40 to 50 secdons to get off water ..... try loading a 65 HP cub to
2300 to 2500 lbs.
certainly for referance only
Dave,
I have a question? Are you saying your aircraft is 700lbs. on floats and you can
carry 450lbs people plus 96lbs. of fuel plus 110lbs. of stuff in addition to
that a case of beer and food? Or where you talking about the new super sport?
Chris Budd
Kitfox Speedster Classic IV
VW 2180 210hrs
St. Louis, MO
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
> I searched the Service Bulletins and there is nothing, as you found. There
> is, interestingly, nothing on the recommended frequency of bungee
> replacemtent either - whatever that means.
Lowell same link i found on google say replace annually.
http://kitfox.lazair.com/Service_Letters/sl48.htm
. The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it should be replaced
annually.
I would really doubt that many Kitfoxes are not using safety cables .
How about a poll......... ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155761#155761
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Chris,
What I am saying is that that 700 empty Kitfox can carry it's own weight of another
700lbs.
Can a 65 HP Cub carry it s own weight ?
Dave
> add it up700 + 110 plus 450 + 96 lbs + case beer and food. --yeah it adds up
eh !!even takes 40 to 50 secdons to get off water ..... try loading a 65 HP cub
to2300 to 2500 lbs. certainly for referance onl
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155762#155762
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
I thought you said you have the 1050 kitfox 4. that makes you 350lbs over gross.
Hummmmmm.... . If you have the 1200 that makes you 200 over gross.
Hummmmmm... At least in my book 700+700=1400
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155765#155765
Message 19
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| Subject: | Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Dave, I suspect the bulletins and service letters at KitfoxAircraft are not
complete which is not surprising considering all the commotion with the
bankruptcy and picking up the pieces. Somewhere are several photos of
Kitfoxes with the center bulkhead destroyed by these cables when all that
happened was a hard landing. Nobody is trying to sway you into taking yours
off.
Take a poll if you want, but it won't prove a thing and will just eat up
unnecessary space and time. If you like them there, then by all means keep
them. I was just pointing out that Skystar, after the damage, recommended
they be removed. However, those old manuals were probably never changed to
reflect that. I've been involved with Kitfoxes since about 1990 and I
recall zero incidents of bungies actually breaking. When I saw the photos I
couldn't get those cables cut off there quick enough. As for annually
replacing the bungies, nothing new there either. It's always been that way.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be
overcome".- Samuel Johnson
>
>> I searched the Service Bulletins and there is nothing, as you found.
>> There
>> is, interestingly, nothing on the recommended frequency of bungee
>> replacemtent either - whatever that means.
>
>
> Lowell same link i found on google say replace annually.
> http://kitfox.lazair.com/Service_Letters/sl48.htm
>
> . The condition of the bungee should also be checked, and it should be
> replaced annually.
>
>
> I would really doubt that many Kitfoxes are not using safety cables .
>
> How about a poll......... ?
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155761#155761
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Mike, I see that you are shooting from the hip here. try reading the original
post .
I copied it below to save you having to looking back
Dave
700 + 110 plus 450 + 96 lbs + case beer and food. --yeah it adds up eh !!
even takes 40 to 50 secdons to get off water ..... try loading a 65 HP cub to 2300
to 2500 lbs.
certainly for referance only
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155769#155769
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
To destroy the center bulkhead you would need on hell of a hard landing.
To tear the cables through the bulkhead you have ot ask your self what "could have
" happened had the cables not been there ?
I would not be in a hurry to remove mine or anyones.
I have been around flying not just kitfox but GA to ultralight and homebuilts since
1980.
I would like to see these pictures and referance to remove them.
How does one land thathard anyhow ? Stall and drop straight in from 50 feet ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155770#155770
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:01 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> As for annually replacing the bungies, nothing new there either.
> It's always been that way.
Er ... maybe, Deke. And, BTW, thanks Dave for the link to the service
bulletin that I had never seen before.
I replaced my bungees last year after ... 13 years and about 950
landings. I thought it was time although the one I removed were still
in a splendid condition. Of course, I do inspect about everything on my
plane, as a pre-flight and at any other occasion I am in the hangar and
e.g. lift the cowling or just admire my bird. Inspection is never
overdone but ... do we really have to change the bungees annually?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
On Jan 3, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> So this is where all the '60's children went, eh? They all took up
> flying, because the other way of getting high got too: (a) expensive
> (b) illegal (c) fattening
... or, too stupid, Lynn. I also smoked the occasional joint and,
unlike Clinton, I inhaled. But more as a social thing than a habit. In
1971, I was travelling in Morocco with the girl who became my wife. We
lived, like many others, in a camper van. At the time, a gathering
place was a beautiful beach outside Essaouira, a place I believe even
Jimi Hendrix visited. Anyway, as I woke up one morning, a guy came to
me with a big fat joint. "Er ... no, thank you!" I said, "... a bit too
early for me!" We then drove south to Goulimine, the camel marketplace,
then into the Sahara desert ... had a great time. A couple of weeks
later, on our way home, we stopped at the same beach for the night. The
next morning ... the same guy came with a joint. He hadn't moved at all
during all that time! We saw Morocco and he saw ... the beach. The
bottom line is: If you are in a Turkish jail for the rest of your life:
Smoke grass! If you want to do something with your life: go and get it,
man! That's groovy! Go and sail across the ocean! That's far out, man!
Buy a plane and learn to fly! That's a cool trip, man! Do whatever but
get your fat ass out of that smoke and go and get the world, it's all
waiting for you! ... But I'm sure you agree! :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Er...Michel, no you don't have to change them annually. You change them
whenever you want to. I never recommended them be changed annually and I
don't personally believe they need to be changed annually. I was just
making the point that "annually" was -- and unless it has been changed --
the factory recommendation and it's been that way from when Denney had it.
Somewhere there will be a reference to this or perhaps it's right in the
older builder manuals. I dunno. I'm still looking for something that makes
any reference at all to the bungies. If I find it I'll pass it on.
Otherwise, I'm moving on.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be
overcome".- Samuel Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv)
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:01 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
>> As for annually replacing the bungies, nothing new there either. It's
>> always been that way.
>
> Er ... maybe, Deke. And, BTW, thanks Dave for the link to the service
> bulletin that I had never seen before.
> I replaced my bungees last year after ... 13 years and about 950 landings.
> I thought it was time although the one I removed were still in a splendid
> condition. Of course, I do inspect about everything on my plane, as a
> pre-flight and at any other occasion I am in the hangar and e.g. lift the
> cowling or just admire my bird. Inspection is never overdone but ... do we
> really have to change the bungees annually?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Michel,
The original bungees in my plane came with the kit, delivered in 1989. Prior
owner had only 4 wraps on them and I eventually squeezed 7 out of that set of
rubberbands. But before the airplane ever flew (2005) I noticed slack had developed
in the left bungee. Don't know if it was age (certainly wasn't wear) that
caused stretching. Anyway I replaced with a set I made. A year later I replaced
again tho old ones still looked fine.
Because the job is such a chore (at least for me) I've asked myself the same
question, i.e., is replacement every year really necessary? Personally, I think
not. So I'm going with every 2 years, tho I do check their condition routinely.
P.S.: Back to old songs . . . Reading your description of North African adventure,
I think I heard "Marakesh Express" playing in the background.
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:01 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> As for annually replacing the bungies, nothing new there either.
> It's always been that way.
Er ... maybe, Deke. And, BTW, thanks Dave for the link to the service
bulletin that I had never seen before.
I replaced my bungees last year after ... 13 years and about 950
landings. I thought it was time although the one I removed were still
in a splendid condition. Of course, I do inspect about everything on my
plane, as a pre-flight and at any other occasion I am in the hangar and
e.g. lift the cowling or just admire my bird. Inspection is never
overdone but ... do we really have to change the bungees annually?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:22 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> I never recommended them be changed annually and I don't personally
> believe they need to be changed annually.
Oh, I know Deke! I never implied that. I just wanted the group to know
that, at least in my case, the bungees were still in good shape after
13 years. You know, I have an art education; I know really nothing
about mechanics. In my mind, anything that is made out of rubber or any
other 'soft' stuff, has a limited life time. That's why I changed mine.
But I think those little 'rubber bands' are good stuff and I am
impressed. It makes me think that, after all, it is not a wonder that
no bungee failure has been registered yet and that ... maybe removing
the safety wire is a good idea. I still have mines but I'll be thinking
about removing them.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
Michel, I always look forward to your posts. You are a philosopher
and an inspiration. At 75, I've never used grass (as a career naval
officer I was well insulated from the 60s counter-culture) or
anything stronger than a little alcohol, but I am occasionally driven
to indolence. Your passion for aviation and for life is most obvious.
And would that we could all use our native language as articulately
and skillfully as you do.
Now I've got to go get off my ass. There's still a lot of world to be
gotten out there.
Happy New Year,
Lyle Persels
Model IV-1200 912 ULS
Do not archive
On 01 3, 08, at 2:05 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 5:26 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> So this is where all the '60's children went, eh? They all took up
>> flying, because the other way of getting high got too: (a)
>> expensive (b) illegal (c) fattening
>
> ... or, too stupid, Lynn. I also smoked the occasional joint and,
> unlike Clinton, I inhaled. But more as a social thing than a habit.
> In 1971, I was travelling in Morocco with the girl who became my
> wife. We lived, like many others, in a camper van. At the time, a
> gathering place was a beautiful beach outside Essaouira, a place I
> believe even Jimi Hendrix visited. Anyway, as I woke up one
> morning, a guy came to me with a big fat joint. "Er ... no, thank
> you!" I said, "... a bit too early for me!" We then drove south to
> Goulimine, the camel marketplace, then into the Sahara desert ...
> had a great time. A couple of weeks later, on our way home, we
> stopped at the same beach for the night. The next morning ... the
> same guy came with a joint. He hadn't moved at all during all that
> time! We saw Morocco and he saw ... the beach. The bottom line is:
> If you are in a Turkish jail for the rest of your life: Smoke
> grass! If you want to do something with your life: go and get it,
> man! That's groovy! Go and sail across the ocean! That's far out,
> man! Buy a plane and learn to fly! That's a cool trip, man! Do
> whatever but get your fat ass out of that smoke and go and get the
> world, it's all waiting for you! ... But I'm sure you agree! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
> do not archive
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Michel read up a a few posts ........of mine
> Attached is a pic of mine with well over 700 hours on them.
> Look like RED RED Yellow ?
>
> Next pic will show mine that are not tight to stops.
> I agree-- whazzzzzzzzza all da fuss about ?
> Use what works and is proven.
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155798#155798
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Orange Peel!!! |
At 10:11 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote:
>Mixed up my 3:1 mix and upon spraying, was in awe of the most
>impressive orange peeling I have ever seen. I thought it might be
>just one component so after getting the mess off of the elevator, I
>tried the rudder. Another feat in orange peeling!!!
>
>Any experience/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Questions:
1. Type of gun? (e.g. HVLP, air, airless?)
2. Temperature of air and temperature of parts? (Quite different when
you start spraying here in San Diego at 9:00am. The parts will still
be in the 40's, whereas the air temp might be 70.)
3. Air pressure at the cap or gun?
4. Spray distance?
Suggestions:
1. Too little air pressure.
2. Reducer incorrect for temperature. (Usually the temp is too hot
and the reducer flashes off too soon.)
3. Too much material too soon. (I'm constantly guilty of this, as I'm
an impatient painter.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Orange Peel!!! |
Hi Wade,
I would review the book on PolyFiber and call them for advice. Orange peel
is usually due to too thick a mix that doesn't allow it to flow out to a smooth
wet look before it sets. It could also be due to too cold a temp making it
thicker. I think that PolyFiber calls for more reducer (thinner) to allow more
time for the finish to level out and set. There is a fine line between too
thick (orange peel and flat look) and too thin ( runs). I don't know how the
cold and humidity in OR could effect it. PolyFiber could give you the answer
better.
I flew the VE for 3 hrs total and noted a hot spot on the #1 cylinder so Rex
and I pulled that cylinder and found severe piston scuffing, ring chatter
and scouring of the cylinder. The #2 cylinder was also bad, not as severe. It
appears the rings were too tight with little or no end gap so they closed up on
heating and jammed in the cylinders. All the rings had the chrome worn off
and sent through the engine oil. So the engine is trashed. We took it off
yesterday, I called LyCon to come pick it up and fix it. They seemed to accept
the fact that we knew what we were talking about and will make it right. I am
disappointed to say the least with the 19000 I paid them for the overhaul and
the time I spent getting it off and back on and off again. They now know we
will be looking at the result closely and it is their reputation at stake.
Call me and I will give you more details about the flights and engine damage.
Have you been x-country skiing? How did the skis work?
Love, Dad
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
I also have been lurking, with my tongue or keyboard pecking fingers tied .
I bought my replacement bungee cord at the local Ace hardware. Made and
installed at least three years ago (500 hours). Yes they are a little weak
or soft but smoothes out a rough field. I worry more about chafing than
strength. I will admit that the plane is light and I fly solo most of the time.
Dwight Purdy
model ll
At 12:58 PM 1/3/2008 -0800, you wrote:
>Michel,
>
>The original bungees in my plane came with the kit, delivered in 1989.
>Prior owner had only 4 wraps on them and I eventually squeezed 7 out of
>that set of rubberbands. But before the airplane ever flew (2005) I
>noticed slack had developed in the left bungee. Don't know if it was age
>(certainly wasn't wear) that caused stretching. Anyway I replaced with a
>set I made. A year later I replaced again tho old ones still looked fine.
>
>Because the job is such a chore (at least for me) I've asked myself the
>same question, i.e., is replacement every year really necessary?
>Personally, I think not. So I'm going with every 2 years, tho I do check
>their condition routinely.
>
>P.S.: Back to old songs . . . Reading your description of North African
>adventure, I think I heard "Marakesh Express" playing in the background.
>
>Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
>
>On Jan 3, 2008, at 8:01 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> > As for annually replacing the bungies, nothing new there either.
> > It's always been that way.
>
>Er ... maybe, Deke. And, BTW, thanks Dave for the link to the service
>bulletin that I had never seen before.
>I replaced my bungees last year after ... 13 years and about 950
>landings. I thought it was time although the one I removed were still
>in a splendid condition. Of course, I do inspect about everything on my
>plane, as a pre-flight and at any other occasion I am in the hangar and
>e.g. lift the cowling or just admire my bird. Inspection is never
>overdone but ... do we really have to change the bungees annually?
>
>Cheers,
>Michel Menezes
>Model 2 582 N99KX
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>3:52 PM
>
:52 PM
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Short changing ourselves |
Thank U Dick Maddux,, Steve shinabery N554KF KF2 withe the little
mighty 582,
Catz631@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/3/2008 2:01:59 AM Central Standard Time,
> kitfox-list@matronics.com writes:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/mt_rainier_949.jpg
>
> Steve,
> That is one of the best stories I have read! Good for you! I can
> see that you have a lot of aviation experience and I am glad you have
> that airplane. You deserved it. It couldn't go to a better home. The
> old adage "What comes around goes around" is certainly true in this case.
> Kindest regards,
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4-1200
> Rotax 912 UL
> Pensacola, Fl.
>
>
> top rated recipes and easy ways to stay in shape
> <http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003>
> for winter.
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | cabin heater muff style |
OK Gents...Just finished up a heater muff for my 912 speedster. I thought if anyone
was going to undertake such a project, I might post these pics .
Total weight as shown on the scales was 2 lbs. And the Heater valve I fabricated
of steel was 12 oz my itself...the single heaviest component.
All hardware is included on the scales except the scat hose clamps..which I didnt
have the right sizes on hand, and the cable to operate the valve. Worked out
pretty good...I just hope it heats!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155823#155823
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopfront_955.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oncan_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_146.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/heaterdone_119.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight2lbs_476.jpg
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Dwight your taking a huge risk saying you purchased your bungees at the
local hardware store. Someone will verbally assault you for it.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: dwight purdy<mailto:dpurdy@comteck.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv)
I also have been lurking, with my tongue or keyboard pecking fingers
tied .
I bought my replacement bungee cord at the local Ace hardware. Made
and installed at least three years ago (500 hours). Yes they are a
little weak or soft but smoothes out a rough field. I worry more about
chafing than strength. I will admit that the plane is light and I fly
solo most of the time.
Dwight Purdy
model ll
1/3/2008 3:52 PM
:52 PM
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Dee
I wish I had wrote down the length I bought so as to do it again.
DwightPurdy
model ll
At 05:28 PM 1/3/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>Dwight your taking a huge risk saying you purchased your bungees at the
>local hardware store. Someone will verbally assault you for it. cf2b5c.gif
>
>Dee Young
>Model II
>N345DY
>
>Do not archive
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:dpurdy@comteck.com>dwight purdy
>To: <mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:06 PM
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv)
>
>I also have been lurking, with my tongue or keyboard pecking fingers tied .
> I bought my replacement bungee cord at the local Ace hardware. Made and
> installed at least three years ago (500 hours). Yes they are a little
> weak or soft but smoothes out a rough field. I worry more about chafing
> than strength. I will admit that the plane is light and I fly solo most
> of the time.
>
> Dwight Purdy
> model ll
>>
>>1/3/2008 3:52 PM
>
>
>:52 PM
>
>
>3:52 PM
:52 PM
Message 36
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Mixed Polybrush 3:1 with what? Ron NB Ore> Subject: Kitfox-List: Orange P
eel!!!> From: reinagreaves@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:11:59 -080
egreaves" <reinagreaves@comcast.net>> > Was ready to take the next step in
covering today and start spraying the polybrush. Prepped the surfaces of my
horz,rudder,and elevator using the presurface cleaner. Mixed up my 3:1 mix
and upon spraying, was in awe of the most impressive orange peeling I have
ever seen. I thought it might be just one component so after getting the m
ess off of the elevator, I tried the rudder. Another feat in orange peeling
!!! > > Any experience/advice would be greatly appreciated.> > > > > Read t
his topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155
=========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_1220
07
Message 37
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| Subject: | cabin heater muff style |
Don,
That is a really neat intallation. Please do let us know how it works.
Andy F.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don G
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: cabin heater muff style
OK Gents...Just finished up a heater muff for my 912 speedster. I thought if
anyone was going to undertake such a project, I might post these pics .
Total weight as shown on the scales was 2 lbs. And the Heater valve I
fabricated of steel was 12 oz my itself...the single heaviest component.
All hardware is included on the scales except the scat hose clamps..which I
didnt have the right sizes on hand, and the cable to operate the valve.
Worked out pretty good...I just hope it heats!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155823#155823
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopfront_955.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/oncan_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_146.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/heaterdone_119.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight2lbs_476.jpg
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Orange Peel!!! |
**
>
> *Don G would seem to be a man that should be asked for advise on covering.
*
**
*Take a look at this portion of his site. *
*http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/wingcovering_9.htm*
**
*Scroll to the bottom of the page...read what he calls his "short pitch for
Poly-brush" More then few good tips there...*
**
* Beautiful work Mr G. *
*I'd be your wingman anyday. (Top Gun)*
**
*Steve B.*
*84KF*
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