Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Brian Leach)
2. 02:07 AM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Steve Shinabery)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (84KF)
4. 06:12 AM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Lynn Matteson)
5. 06:39 AM - Re: cabin heater muff style (fox5flyer)
6. 06:46 AM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Tom Jones)
7. 07:05 AM - [OFF-TOPIC] Pun WAS: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Michel Verheughe)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Don G)
9. 09:52 AM - Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (dave)
10. 10:12 AM - Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (kitfoxmike)
11. 10:15 AM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (kitfoxmike)
12. 11:30 AM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Michel Verheughe)
13. 11:34 AM - Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... (Michel Verheughe)
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Orange Peel!!! (Don G)
15. 12:22 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
16. 12:28 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
17. 12:32 PM - Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (dave)
18. 12:42 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
19. 12:51 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Marco Menezes)
20. 12:51 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
21. 01:02 PM - Kitfox Biplane (Pat Reilly)
22. 01:26 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Don G)
23. 01:36 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
24. 01:41 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
25. 01:56 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
26. 01:59 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
27. 02:02 PM - Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (kitfoxmike)
28. 02:16 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
29. 02:42 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
30. 02:43 PM - Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) (Michel Verheughe)
31. 02:49 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (dave)
32. 02:57 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (kitfoxmike)
33. 03:30 PM - Re: Kitfox Biplane (Dan Billingsley)
34. 03:37 PM - Re: Kitfox Biplane (Dan Billingsley)
35. 03:43 PM - This feud isn't pretty! (Jim Crowder)
36. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: cabin heater muff style (Lynn Matteson)
37. 04:14 PM - Kitfox Biplane (Dee Young)
38. 04:15 PM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Lynn Matteson)
39. 04:53 PM - Re: This feud isn't pretty! (kitfoxmike)
40. 05:03 PM - Re: cabin heater muff style (kitfoxmike)
41. 05:32 PM - need Tonys Book Kitfox flying (Steve Shinabery)
42. 05:53 PM - Re: need Tonys Book Kitfox flying (Dennis Golden)
43. 06:01 PM - Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (Steve Shinabery)
44. 06:04 PM - Re: Re: This feud isn't pretty! ()
45. 06:33 PM - Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? (Tom Jones)
46. 07:03 PM - Re: Kitfox Biplane (john oakley)
47. 07:18 PM - Re: need Tonys Book Kitfox flying (Lynn Matteson)
48. 07:21 PM - Re: cabin heater muff style (Don G)
49. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Michael Gibbs)
50. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Michael Gibbs)
51. 08:12 PM - Re: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Michael Gibbs)
52. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Autogas - color (Noel Loveys)
53. 09:31 PM - Re: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (Jim Crowder)
54. 10:01 PM - Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! (darinh)
55. 10:01 PM - Re: This feud isn't pretty! (Guy Buchanan)
56. 10:40 PM - Tony Bingelis Books (SOURDOSTAN@AOL.COM)
57. 10:52 PM - FAA Avoidance (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
I have an Avid Flyer taildragger with bungee gear and limit cables, a 912
engine, an empty weight of 620 lb and a gross weight of 1150 lb. In 200
hours I have made several landings that I thought were VERY heavy but
luckily no damage and no bending of the cross member. So I am a little
curious of just how hard you have to hit to actually bend it and wondering
if the Kitfox and Avid have similar construction. Obviously the cross
member is in a different place and perhaps subject to different impact
loading depending on whether it is a trike or a taildragger. Could some of
the statistical gurus on the list tell me if Avids and Kitfoxes have similar
cross members and if the guys that have bent them were flying trikes or
taildraggers and what weight did they have on board when it happened. But
perhaps we don't hit so hard down here because we live on the under side of
the earth !!!!
Brian.
New Zealand
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Andy:what did U use at the fire wall.4 the heater control box??this
looks like a neat set clean set up.good deal.I would like to may B build
one for my FF2 with the 582 engine I think it all so would work 4
me..Thanks Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 little 582
Andy Fultz wrote:
>
> Don,
>
> That is a really neat intallation. Please do let us know how it works.
>
> Andy F.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don G
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:19 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: cabin heater muff style
>
>
>
> OK Gents...Just finished up a heater muff for my 912 speedster. I thought if
> anyone was going to undertake such a project, I might post these pics .
> Total weight as shown on the scales was 2 lbs. And the Heater valve I
> fabricated of steel was 12 oz my itself...the single heaviest component.
> All hardware is included on the scales except the scat hose clamps..which I
> didnt have the right sizes on hand, and the cable to operate the valve.
> Worked out pretty good...I just hope it heats!
>
> --------
> Don G.
> Central Illinois
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Luscombe 8A
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155823#155823
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopfront_955.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oncan_139.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_146.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/heaterdone_119.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight2lbs_476.jpg
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
"But perhaps we don't hit so hard down here because we live on the under
side of
the earth !!!!"
Interesting concept. Very interesting indeed.
I tend to believe we do not understand the *gravity *of flaring to high.
Steve
84KF
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Looks like a good set-up, Don. However, I'm concerned about the
exhaust pipe wrapping. In "Tony Bingelis' on Engines", he states: "I
don't recommend wrapping exhaust pipes with one of those automotive
"Exhaust Insulating Wrap" kits regardless of the claims made for
them." He goes on to cite one example of failure. I've thought about
this practice, and haven't come to any conclusion myself, but if Tony
disapproves of it, that's a pretty good sign.
Anybody else have any proof of this being a bad idea?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/450+ hrs
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Don G wrote:
>
> OK Gents...Just finished up a heater muff for my 912 speedster. I
> thought if anyone was going to undertake such a project, I might
> post these pics .
> Total weight as shown on the scales was 2 lbs. And the Heater valve
> I fabricated of steel was 12 oz my itself...the single heaviest
> component.
> All hardware is included on the scales except the scat hose
> clamps..which I didnt have the right sizes on hand, and the cable
> to operate the valve. Worked out pretty good...I just hope it heats!
>
> --------
> Don G.
> Central Illinois
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Luscombe 8A
>
> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155823#155823
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopfront_955.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oncan_139.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_146.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/heaterdone_119.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight2lbs_476.jpg
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
I read something about this Lynn that stated the exhaust pipes, especially
those closest to the cylinders, need cooling. By wrapping them they keep
the heat inside, which is good for the engine compartment, but the metal
gets too hot which changes the metallurgy properties and reduces it's useful
life. This isn't my opinion, just repeating what I read and I don't know if
it is true or not. FWIW.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be
overcome".- Samuel Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cabin heater muff style
>
> Looks like a good set-up, Don. However, I'm concerned about the exhaust
> pipe wrapping. In "Tony Bingelis' on Engines", he states: "I don't
> recommend wrapping exhaust pipes with one of those automotive "Exhaust
> Insulating Wrap" kits regardless of the claims made for them." He goes on
> to cite one example of failure. I've thought about this practice, and
> haven't come to any conclusion myself, but if Tony disapproves of it,
> that's a pretty good sign.
>
> Anybody else have any proof of this being a bad idea?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/450+ hrs
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Don G wrote:
>
>>
>> OK Gents...Just finished up a heater muff for my 912 speedster. I
>> thought if anyone was going to undertake such a project, I might post
>> these pics .
>> Total weight as shown on the scales was 2 lbs. And the Heater valve I
>> fabricated of steel was 12 oz my itself...the single heaviest component.
>> All hardware is included on the scales except the scat hose
>> clamps..which I didnt have the right sizes on hand, and the cable to
>> operate the valve. Worked out pretty good...I just hope it heats!
>>
>> --------
>> Don G.
>> Central Illinois
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Luscombe 8A
>>
>> http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155823#155823
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/scoopfront_955.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/oncan_139.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/valve_146.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/heaterdone_119.jpg
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/weight2lbs_476.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
I'm glad to see some more heater ideas. My first attempt at building one was a
bust...no heat. My modification made a tiny bit of heat. I have the third generation
installed but too snowy to fly and test now. keep us updated on the
performance Don!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155923#155923
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] Pun WAS: Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
> From: 84KF [avidfox@gmail.com]
> I tend to believe we do not understand the *gravity* of flaring too high.
That's a beautiful pun, Steve! Thanks for sharing.
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Thx Gents...Well, before starting on this project I did a search of the archives
from this list and alot of the dope I read influenced the design.
I have not installed them, but I have a sack of pot scrubbers on the bench!
The Valve on the firewall is a simply flapper type air diverter valve that opens
and shut via a cable on the panel. it diverts the hopefully warm air either
into the cabin or out thru the round outlet pointed down to exit thru the bottom
of the cowl. I fabricated this myself from mild steel sheet and brazed it together.
It is kind of a copy of other aircraft diverter valves I have seen in
the past.
Lynn, In regards to the exhaust wrap. I have Tonys Book, and I am aware of his
statement on pipe wraps. However, I also know if this products usage in many certificated
applications and how effective it can be to reduce under cowl temps.
My decision to use it on my craft was based on the close proximity of the coolant
hoses to the exhaust pipes. The craft operated for about 100 hours without
the wrap on the pipes, and the damage to the heater hoses was begining to
show up. Also damage to the firewall blanket where the rear exhaust pipes come
very close. I considered the really good airflow under the cowl that a round
cowled KitFox has, and determined that was was needed was something to more or
less "sheild" the hoses and blanket from the pipe, not necessarly to reduce
the under cowl temps. Hence, I opted for the wrap. Since installing it..about
80 hours ago..I have kept a close eye on those hoses, and am very happy with the
result. Only time will tell if there is any detrimental effects on the pipes
due to holding in too much heat, and if it happens, I figure that a cracked
pipe is a better failure than a busted coolent hose.
I will keep you posted on the long term effects.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155956#155956
Message 9
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| Subject: | Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
While everyone is got cabin fever, here is a few videos we did on Dec 30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzijAWJ_T6Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6fr1d4m5A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6fr1d4m5A
couple of Kitfox flying around
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155960#155960
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
speak for yourself. I've been flying everyday. Today was a bit warmer 41degrees
f, not the 20's like it has been, but the winds were direct cross with 13-18.
Very fun. The other day I was flying off a runway with ice under and loose
snow on top, very slippery, fun though.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155965#155965
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Forget the flair and just fly it down with 0 decent and wheel land it.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155966#155966
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
Hola Marco,
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:58 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> But before the airplane ever flew (2005)I noticed slack had developed
> in the left bungee.
I've just received a photo from a Swede who bought a second hand Avid
Flyer and I also noticed that one of the bungee was quite slack. The
photo was taken with the plane on a soft ground with high grass and I
think that's what pulled the bungee. When I am parked, I always lift
one wing to put the gears together, especially if the plane was pulled
backward.
Incidentally, while looking at your YouTube video, I was thinking:
That's something I haven't experienced; to see what I built with my
hands fly in the sky. I bought my Kitfox second-hand.
> P.S.:Back to old songs . . . Reading your description ofNorth
> African adventure, I think I heard "Marakesh Express" playing in the
> background.
Yep, Marrakech, Ibiza, Amsterdam and London were the drifters'
gathering points in those days.
Un abrazo,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: [OFF-TOPIC] was: TAKE A LOOK MY VIDEOS... |
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:23 PM, Lyle Persels wrote:
> Michel, I always look forward to your posts.
Thank you for your kind words, Lyle. If I am very, very lucky, I might
still be flying my Kitfox at 75. One thing is for sure; I don't feel
like swapping it for anything else.
On Jan 4, 2008, at 7:13 PM, kitfoxmike wrote:
> Forget the flair and just fly it down with 0 decent and wheel land it.
... Unless you have a flair for flaring! (sorry, I couldn't resist it!
:-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Orange Peel!!! |
AWW GEEE Steve!...Thx for the kind words...and wingman someday?...that would be
cool...maybe someday we could get N84KF and N85KF in formation together for a
photo pass!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155986#155986
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
If
you are that confident, why don't you post your tail number and
address and we'll have the FAA come over and confirm your assertion?
Shouldn't be a problem, right? We could put this to bed right now
and shut all the "experts" up.
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ[/quote]
Wow what a statement, you are the type of person I stay away from.
It's people like you that give the FAA the power they have and harm aviation.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155992#155992
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Who are you both referring too??
> Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> If
> you are that confident, why don't you post your tail number and
> address and we'll have the FAA come over and confirm your assertion?
> Shouldn't be a problem, right? We could put this to bed right now
> and shut all the "experts" up.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
Wow what a statement, you are the type of person I stay away from.
It's people like you that give the FAA the power they have and harm aviation.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155994#155994
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
You lucky dog, I like to get out daily too but even with hangar 100 feet from
me it not always that easy.
At least some that do not get out that often will enjoy watching Kitfoxes fly
[Idea]
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155995#155995
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
[quote="avidfox"]
>
> It was recently posted.
> "I believe some old guy died a ways back and his old widow had no idea of the
value of his Kitfox, and didn't remember to put any value on the 1000 to 1500
hours he put into building it, so she basically gave it away (just to be rid
of it) to some spam-canner that said it was just a TOY and only worth $15K tops...."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was someone... perhaps THE one, who purchased a (possibly the mentioned) Kitfox
for $15,000.
> It is a Series 5, with a 912 UL.
> It had a grand total of..... 26 hours flying time.
> As the great radio personality Paul Harvey says...
> "Now..., for the rest of the story....."
> For 10 years prior to the death of the original owner and builder, Ray, I was
the A&P IA who maintained and inspected his "fleet" of aircraft. This was composed
of a Dehavilland Super Chipmunk, a Cessna 337, and 2 Fairchild 24's and
a North American "Yale". (a WWII trainer.) This coincided with my working on
his neighbors North American AT-6 and Boeing Stearman. I was in the Warbird restoration
business at the time and my qualifications unquestionable.
> I did this work at a very (very) low hourly rate, after hours from my "day"
job, as I enjoyed working on the aircraft mentioned and we often went on late
evening flights in the various aircraft, all in the name of "maintenance tests"....naturally.
> My flying experience began with the purchase of a 1948 PA-15 Vagabond for $4500.00
back in 19(cough cough) and I owned and flew the plane for 15 years before
selling it to help finance the kids college. I did a total restoration of
it about half way through that time and learned the art of dope and fabric at
that time. To this day I consider it my speciality and there are many local examples
of my work flying, be it individual flight controls or entire airframes.
> Over the past 30 years I have (honestly) logged 1300 + hours in aircraft ranging
from that original PA-15 Vagabond (first solo) to J-3's, 4's, 20's, Cessnas
120140's, Champs, Citabrias Stearmans, T-6's, and best of all, 4 different
WWII German Fi-156 Fieselers "Storch's" If you ever saw a "Storch" at Oshkosh
during the '90's....I flew one of them there.
> Hardly a "spam-canner" pilot,
> Soon after Ray's death, the widow asked me to determine a "value" for the Kitfox,
but not being familiar with the Experimental Amateur-Built market all I
could was go through his receipts he maliciously saved during construction and
determined that he had spent $41,000 which included airframe kit, engine and
installation kit, King digital flip-flop comm, transponder, encoder, elt, panel
design and installation, Kitfox interior, and upgrades such as Grove gear,
Hooker Harness setup, Cleveland wheels and brakes and a Scott tail wheel assembly.
> Ray did, in my opinion, a beautiful job of constructing the aircraft, and the
covering job is excellent. Everything was done, as I later discovered, "by
the book", the construction manuals check-off squares dated and initialed. All
work performed is what we in the business would refer to as "aircraft quality"
Top notch all the way..That is how Ray was too.
> For 5 years after his death ( we now have 15 years of family association) I
helped the widow with the upkeep of the hanger, lawn equipment servicing and
repair and once or twice a year would run the Kitfox up and change the oil. It
was a "cute" little thing, but I had no interest in it and was not in a position
to purchase and assume the cost of ownership of another aircraft.
> All this time the aircraft was advertised for sale and she was asking $35,000,
plus or minus.
> Every so often I would get a call from her saying that potential buyers would
be coming to look at it and could I be there at the time. "Sure..., no problem.".
> I lost count of the tire kickers, Yeager wannabe's and Kitfox "experts" who
would try to con the poor old lady, thinking she had no idea of what she was
trying to sell. They all tried to lowball her price, many stating that it was
just "junk", with no finish paint, and good for a few parts only. I stayed out
of $ negotiation as she could take care of herself.
> Others wanted a "fresh annual" (it's a "condition report"...jeeze!) No one
ever brought an A&P or professional appraiser with them. Some even wanted to fly
it as is...just to "get the feel for it" I do not recall one person who stated
" It's a fine piece of workmanship, I could trailer it out of here , give
it a good once-over, and be happy, Let's negotiate on the price."
> Everyone wanted to be the one who had discovered the "barn find" of the century
and steal it away from the old widow. Not to be....
> Note: I would not do the "condition report" because...
> #1, In this litigation crazy, sue everyone for anything world we have now, I
didn't want to "get involved".with these "strangers".
> #2, I was not familiar with the Kitfox type aircraft and even less knowledgeable
about the Rotax 912UL engine.
> She understood this completely and was fine with it. .
> Last year the widow lady called and said the plane was leaking fuel...could
I come over and fix it as she was intent on emptying the hanger so she could
move from the airpark home into a local condo. The leak originated at the mil-6000
fuel lines, which I replaced with quality automotive hose. I suspect this
was due to ethanol contamination over the 5 years of inactivity.
> At this time she was tired of the cons and asked if I was interested it the plane,
even though she knew my financial situation would not allow me to pay her
asking price. She stated a "quite" lower price then I expected, but still out
of my reach.
> I went home that night and realized that she was intent on selling the plane,
now not to recover the cost but to be able to move off the property. She really
didn't need the money. She was (is) quite well off financially. She just
wanted to get out from under it and be done with it.
> After a sleepless night I went back and told her I would love to give the bird
a good home, but just didn't have the money. She asked what I could afford,
and I blurted out that $15,000 was the most I could do with out taking out a
loan. And that was the God's honest truth. If my home furnace went out, or my
roof developed a leak, I would be "up a creek..." as they say...
> She looked at me, and, I swear, with a tear in her eye, she looked "up" to where
Ray now resides and asked him, out loud...., "Raymond...? Is that OK with
you?? (pause..)
> She then said to me..."That's fine."
> The next day, she got paid, and I, with help, folded the wings and pulled it
home with the tailwheel tied down over the top of a padded pick-up truck lift
gate to my garage. I spent the better part of the next few weeks going over every
nut, bolt and pop rivit to determine it's condition. It was perfect, as I
have said, By the book . The little nubbies were still on the tires, the seats
still had fuzz on them. It had that "new airplane" smell too.
> I have now put another 40 or so hours flight time on it this past season. I
have also worked out a deal with a T-6, CubCrafter and Bonanza owner where as
I receive a free, insulated, heated hanger at a local airport in exchange for
my occasional A&P and IA services. So far my cost of ownership, with the exception
of the purchase price, has been $00.00. (My personal vehicle fuel cost to
"work" on these aircraft is also reimbursed.)
> I tell this story for a number of reasons.
> First, you don't need to be rich to fly if you are willing to make sacrifices.
> Second, treat people right and they will treat you the same.
> Third, if the potential buyers hadn't tried to cheat and lie to the widow, and
offered her a reasonable price for what was obviously a fine product, they would
be flying a great airplane today for a cost less the the investment in the
airframe kit and engine alone, not me.
>
> Now, when I approached this group a year or so ago I was immediately condemned
by the self-called "experts" when I inquired about Sport Pilot Privileges
with a Series 5. These "experts", who "knew it all" said I didn't "deserve" to
own or fly such a craft as I hadn't built it myself. One went so far as to send
E-mail glorifying his "vast" experience and "requesting" that I never, ever,
fly "over his house" as he considered me a danger due to my "limited knowledge
of aviation."
> That person then proceeded within the year to ball his own aircraft up in a field
for reasons that have never been explained in this forum.
> . I shouldn't admit it but I find that quite ironic.
> I am pleased to say that I am able to, and do, fly my "5" under Sport Pilot privileges.
Perfectly legal under the LSA rules and regulations. Learn what "Maximum
Takeoff Weight" is, as defined by the FAA in regards to LSA issues, and
apply it.
> In the words of Forest Gump..."That is all I have to say about that."
> Steve B.
> Michigan
>
>
>
> [b]
This post from Steve B.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155997#155997
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
God ettermiddag, Michel.
That was Pedro's (Puerto Rico) video. Wish I was there. I live in cold, snowy
Michigan. Imagine Norway without the mountains. I was PIC for my Model 2's first
flight but cannot take credit for building her. The "heavy lifting" was done
by George Dendzel formerly of Royal Oak, Michigan who did a magnificent job.
Sees senare! (That about exhausts my Norwegian.)
do not archive.
Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
Hola Marco,
On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:58 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> But before the airplane ever flew (2005) I noticed slack had developed
> in the left bungee.
I've just received a photo from a Swede who bought a second hand Avid
Flyer and I also noticed that one of the bungee was quite slack. The
photo was taken with the plane on a soft ground with high grass and I
think that's what pulled the bungee. When I am parked, I always lift
one wing to put the gears together, especially if the plane was pulled
backward.
Incidentally, while looking at your YouTube video, I was thinking:
That's something I haven't experienced; to see what I built with my
hands fly in the sky. I bought my Kitfox second-hand.
> P.S.: Back to old songs . . . Reading your description of North
> African adventure, I think I heard "Marakesh Express" playing in the
> background.
Yep, Marrakech, Ibiza, Amsterdam and London were the drifters'
gathering points in those days.
Un abrazo,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
---------------------------------
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
I think Steve is right about that LSA weight issue a while back.
I am in Canada but am close to some Transport, FAA people that told me that.
I think I would be more concerned on LSA pilots that they CANNOT legally fly in
Canada without a Aviation medical yet. I understand that it is being looked
at but no where near getting resolved yet. so on that note LSA not only has some
restrictions like altitude and wight of aircraft but also keeps you on your
side of Border.
We have similar issues with FAA now , If you want the info posted I will be happy
too.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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Kitfoxers, I saw on Matt's Kitfox website a mod 4 that was converted to
a biplane by Denny. Does anybody know where I can find out more info on
that plane and the conversion?
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Back to the orginal subject...
I Certainly agree that it seems a shame that KitFox's dont seem to bring near what
a person invests in building one when it comes time to sell.
And I also completely concour with the observation that very few Experimental aircraft
do. RV's seem to be an obvious exception t that rule.
I submit that , in my opinoin, it has more to do with the supply vs demand than
it does with the KitFox owners failure to refuse to sell at a higher price. I
am sure plenty of owners who have put up their planes for sale, have in fact
done just that...refused to take what they thought it was worth...and remained
an "owner", not a seller!
I have built 5 flying machines in my life and I have long ago relegated to the
fact that It was a lousy investment. The only time I ever got out of a flying
plane the investment price, was way back in the late 70's when I was a WeedHopper
dealer. I could buy a kit...if you bought htem 5 at a time for 2 k each...the
selling price was 2995 and it only took me about 40 hours to build one,(for
the few customers that wanted me to.)
As a young freshly graduated aeronautical engineer I was not makeing anywhere near
that much money a week...in fact, my memory is foggy that far back, but I
think 250 to 300 a week was about my salary at my regular job. After the infamous
20-20 program that destroyed our fledgeling flying machine industry was aired,
I moved to experimental projects and I have just kinda looked at it like
a fellow does when building a HotRod, or any other custom vehicle. The market
for them just is not big enough to make any money building them, especially one
at a time , on a regular basis. You have to do it for the sense of accomplishment,
not economy. I think if we all take a backwards look at the tremendous
amount of companies, even Kit companies, that have come and gone trying to do
just that...it is pretty obvious. The market just wont support but a very few.
Only the best designs have survived, and if even a few mistakes are made in business
operations, even they can fail so easily.
I now own the first experimental aircraft that I didnt build, and as you know by
now, its a KitFox. I choose to do this not because I dont enjoy the building
process, for I enjoy it immensely, and will continue to build very likely. But
I choose to do this because I consider the KitFox to be probably the MOST undervalued
experimental on the market.
I couldnt bring myself to invest the 35 to 40 grand needed plus the time. It seemed
like I would be paying to have the privilege to build one from 15 to 20 K
compared to what a flying used craft could be aquired for. IF I didnt like the
workmanship, I would have alot of cushion here for a rebuild or a modification
or whatever tinkering It would need.
If I build again, which , as I said is very likely, I will probably do an RV, because
I want one so bad AND Its easier to Justify the investment due to the resale
AND I cant seem to buy one for less than I can build it. OR go back to ultralites
for projects because the loss vs investment is not so great.
Right now I am restoreing a Luscombe 8A to satisfy my builders urge and its no
bargain project either . Be real lucky to get out of it what I'll have wrapped
up. What the industry needs is more pilots....bigger market..simple as that.
As previously stated on the list....Better enjoy it, cause its gonna cost you!
Good thing I do, and as I keep telling my wife.."It keeps me outta the taverns
!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
> As previously stated on the list....Better enjoy it, cause its gonna cost you!
> Good thing I do, and as I keep telling my wife.."It keeps me outta the taverns
!
>
I just say , "well at least you know where I am " [Rolling Eyes] :P [Shocked]
:D :D
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
It is a shame the kitfox is under rated, in the eyes of the consumer. I think
it is the most wonderful piece of airplane. I hear all the time on the radio
from airline pilots. Is that a Kitfox, with surprise. Mainly because of the
way I fly it. I come back with an affirmative. For some reason, they have gotten
some bad press. What these airplanes can do is simply amazing.
As far as building an experimental, I'm doing it so I can bypass the red tape,
I want to do my own yearly inspections. I want the freedom. Forget that certified
garbage. When done with my current project, I'm done. I'll keep the fox,
for I think the return will be bad, but keeping it will be fun.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156010#156010
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Mike , What exactly do you mean by this ?
>
> For some reason, they have gotten some bad press.
I agree a great flying airplane and one of the best bang for the buk !![/quote]
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
I don't mean bad press in the conventional means, aka tv or radio. I mean reviews
from other pilots. If you go back a couple months and remember the post from
the RV pilots. Slammed the fox pretty bad.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
I don't think I'm lucky, I'm fortunate. I have a wife that lets me fly. I have
a job that I can get away every day up to two hours and go fly. I love to fly
and I'm going to do it. I schedule it in. If the fox needs work, that's done
in the evening. It gets fueled in the evening. The airport is 2 miles from
my house and 7 miles from work. I'm a happy man.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Well , I can tell that I came across a study done by a Challenger owner and I added
to his chart Kitfox and Avids . What the chart fails to show is the quantity
of each plane flying. But the writer did a good job.
I posted it here http://www.cfisher.com/accident.html
And there is a link there to the original study with credit given to him > Walter
Lounsbery
I would like to expand that study to see what the most frequent cause was of Kitfox
Accidents. I would venture to guess that fuel issues and stall or stall/spin
would be 2 of the top ones though ( gut feel only )
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
I have to say it is tough to spin a fox, not impossible, but tough. The reason,
you have to go pretty slow. I've gone up to altitude and slowed to 60mph and
did a left bank 90 degrees and the fox made the turn with just a little shake,
this was with little power. I was amazed. So if people are dropping out of
the sky it's there own fault not the airplane, watch your speeds people. One
last note, the reason for the kitfox accidents, are the same for all of aviation.
People flying to slow.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156021#156021
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| Subject: | Re: Shock cords -- FWIW (triv) |
On Jan 4, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> That was Pedro's (Puerto Rico) video.
Oops! Sorry Marco! Today, an old friend of mine wrote to me: "You know
that you are over 60 (I'll be 60 in a few weeks) when you can tell a
secret to a friend ... chances are that he won't remember it either!"
:-)
> Wish I was there.I livein cold, snowy Michigan. Imagine Norway
> without the mountains.
We call it Sweden! :-)
> Sees senare! (That about exhausts my Norwegian.)
Excellent Norwegian!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
> are the same for all of aviation. People flying to slow.
>
I have to agree there but would like to add that slow is ok but you need to be
proficient in slow flight and know your aircraft and what it feels like in slow
flight, in stalls in all aspects - climb and turing.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
What I'm talking about with slow is running 2 mph above stall for your final, very
stupid. I know pilots that do that as a norm. I can't tell them anything
either, they keep doing it. Leaves a very small margin of error.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156024#156024
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Biplane |
Pat, I don't know alot about that plane other than it is no more. The plane was
taken apart and no longer exists. I heard that the wings were tucked away in
someones hanger, but I don't recall who or where. FWIW
Dan B
Do not archive
Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kitfoxers, I saw on Matt's Kitfox website a mod 4 that was converted
to a biplane by Denny. Does anybody know where I can find out more info on that
plane and the conversion?
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Biplane |
Don't know why some of the posts I send show up empty...odd
try this again
Pat, I don't know alot about that plane other than it is no more. The plane was
taken apart and no longer exists. I heard that the wings were tucked away in
someones hanger, but I don't recall who or where. FWIW
Dan B
Do not archive
Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kitfoxers, I saw on Matt's Kitfox website a mod 4 that was converted
to a biplane by Denny. Does anybody know where I can find out more info on that
plane and the conversion?
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| Subject: | This feud isn't pretty! |
What is it about email lists and the "road rage" that sometimes develops.
Mean and cruel things are said by people who face to face are very likely
decent people. Like "rolled up in a ball." Why not just let the issue drop
and do your own things. Don't keep arguing an issue that we as a list will
never seem to agree on--Steve.
On the other side having two nearly identical, or identical airplanes and
saying one can, and one cannot, be flown as LSA compliant is stupid, unfair,
and if one had enough money to fight, probably not enforceable. I also
suspect that if the paperwork in the plane, (and only the weight and balance
papers show it), show the 1320 lbs., and the plane is otherwise compliant,
it will never be questioned.
While it is big to some in our group, it's not a big issue in the general
flying community and probably not with the FAA--unless we push their nose
into it. But here is the point, why are some so uptight about Steve and
those who choose to see it differently, or as a grey area. Are we afraid
someone else is going to have some fun flying? Do we think it is somehow
immoral and that they are doing something that endangers the public?
Baloney. I know a lot of people who fly without insurance and not all of
them are flying experimental. Most states don't require insurance and
aircraft insurance companies write a lot of pretty meager overages and are
very apt to find something to deny coverage over anyway. If we think they
are taking a risk on there selves with the FAA, what is the concern to us?
As pilots we should be on their side, not defending a silly unfair rule.
It's a new year and lets look at what we agree on. I for one hate the hard
edge and meanness I read in some of our emails. Like I said in the subject
line I changed--This feud isn't pretty! I like all of you and hope I
haven't made enemies here. It is not my intent.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of kitfoxmike
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:22 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!!
>
>
>
> If
> you are that confident, why don't you post your tail number and
> address and we'll have the FAA come over and confirm your assertion?
> Shouldn't be a problem, right? We could put this to bed right now
> and shut all the "experts" up.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ[/quote]
>
> Wow what a statement, you are the type of person I stay away from.
>
> It's people like you that give the FAA the power they have and
> harm aviation.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> model IV, 1200
> speedster
> 912ul
> building
> RV7a
> slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
> "if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then
> you're not flying enough"
> Do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155992#155992
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Well, Don, if the wrapping proves to be a problem, you can also do
away with it, and just install a standoff shield on the coolant hoses
or other affected items. Of course the simplest and most direct
method is the wrap of the exhaust pipe, as you did.
When I worked for the Chrysler Proving Grounds Wind Tunnel, we would
often install thermocouples on a particular part like the catalytic
convertor. We would then put another t'couple on the CC shield,
another on the floor pan, the carpet, etc. All of the thermocouples
were "stacked" that is, all in line with each other vertically. It
was surprising how the temperature dropped behind the shield, on the
floor pan, etc.
Now would not be a good time to mention the Jabiru doesn't have
cooling hoses, eh? I didn't think so. : ) Besides, the Jab's got
their own problems: )
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/450+ hrs
On Jan 4, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Don G wrote:
>
> Thx Gents...Well, before starting on this project I did a search of
> the archives from this list and alot of the dope I read influenced
> the design.
> I have not installed them, but I have a sack of pot scrubbers on
> the bench!
>
> The Valve on the firewall is a simply flapper type air diverter
> valve that opens and shut via a cable on the panel. it diverts the
> hopefully warm air either into the cabin or out thru the round
> outlet pointed down to exit thru the bottom of the cowl. I
> fabricated this myself from mild steel sheet and brazed it
> together. It is kind of a copy of other aircraft diverter valves I
> have seen in the past.
>
> Lynn, In regards to the exhaust wrap. I have Tonys Book, and I am
> aware of his statement on pipe wraps. However, I also know if this
> products usage in many certificated applications and how effective
> it can be to reduce under cowl temps. My decision to use it on my
> craft was based on the close proximity of the coolant hoses to the
> exhaust pipes. The craft operated for about 100 hours without the
> wrap on the pipes, and the damage to the heater hoses was begining
> to show up. Also damage to the firewall blanket where the rear
> exhaust pipes come very close. I considered the really good
> airflow under the cowl that a round cowled KitFox has, and
> determined that was was needed was something to more or less
> "sheild" the hoses and blanket from the pipe, not necessarly to
> reduce the under cowl temps. Hence, I opted for the wrap. Since
> installing it..about 80 hours ago..I have kept a close eye on those
> hoses, and am very happy with the result. Only time will tell if
> there is any detri!
> mental effects on the pipes due to holding in too much heat, and
> if it happens, I figure that a cracked pipe is a better failure
> than a busted coolent hose.
> I will keep you posted on the long term effects.
>
> --------
> Don G.
>
Message 37
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I saw the wings in a hanger in Nampa, Idaho a few years back.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Billingsley<mailto:dan@azshowersolutions.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Biplane
Don't know why some of the posts I send show up empty...odd
try this again
Pat, I don't know alot about that plane other than it is no more. The
plane was taken apart and no longer exists. I heard that the wings were
tucked away in someones hanger, but I don't recall who or where. FWIW
Dan B
Do not archive
Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kitfoxers, I saw on Matt's Kitfox website a mod 4 that was converted
to a biplane by Denny. Does anybody know where I can find out more info
on that plane and the conversion?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
To quote Tony Bingelis a little more regarding the failure of a
wrapped exhaust system: "A local Mustang II equipped with a mild
steel exhaust system suffered complete failure of the pipes in all of
the bend areas. His thermal wrapped pipes had completely burned
through." Reference is "Tony Bingelis on Engines," pages179-182.
Just to throw in an observation of my own, I've never seen a race car
with the pipes wrapped. I've seen the ads for the wrapping, but never
seen it in use. And you'd think if any group of engine enthusiasts
would be going for that last horse, it'd be race cars. And while I'm
pretty new at this aviation thing, I haven't seen the certified
planes with wrapping on their exhausts, either....those that I've
seen anyway.
Maybe a better method of retaining heat (to raise the efficiency of
the cabin heat muff) would be ceramic coating? While Tony does not
mention ceramic coating, he does list Jet Hot Coatings in his sources.
The other thing about the wrapping is that water/ice/snow can be
trapped under the wrapping, further causing problems...I know, how
long is ice going to last at 1400? Not long, I'm thinking: )
On Jan 4, 2008, at 9:37 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> I read something about this Lynn that stated the exhaust pipes,
> especially those closest to the cylinders, need cooling. By
> wrapping them they keep the heat inside, which is good for the
> engine compartment, but the metal gets too hot which changes the
> metallurgy properties and reduces it's useful life. This isn't my
> opinion, just repeating what I read and I don't know if it is true
> or not. FWIW.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
> "Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must
> first be overcome".- Samuel Johnson
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: This feud isn't pretty! |
Thank you Jim,
I agree whole heartedly. But don't put that to just email. I find that pilots
sit on the ground and WATCH for people to break a rule just to turn them into
the FAA. WHat a crock. I think we need to adopt a rule here. NO MORE NARCING.
Come on. Put the FAA in their place, leave them alone. The only people
that are going to give the FAA strength are those running to them all the time,
turning in other pilots. We should be saying, we are not going to the FAA for
anything period, for any reason. Let them find out about pilots on THEIR OWN.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156041#156041
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Something you might want to think about is to have the air passing through the
heat muff all the time, in other words let the air dump when you turn off the
heat. I don't know if your valve does that or not. That way the heat around
the muffler doesn't get to hot and burn out the muffler.
--------
kitfoxmike
model IV, 1200
speedster
912ul
building
RV7a
slowbuild wings, fuse, finish kit
"if you're not getting razzed from pilots or the FAA then you're not flying
enough"
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156043#156043
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| Subject: | need Tonys Book Kitfox flying |
If any one has a copy of Tonys book.I would like to have one..new or
used..or tell me where I could get a copy.sounds like a interesting book
that I may beable to use..Thanks Steve Shinabery,,N554KF KF2 email me
at shinco@bright.net
Don G wrote:Read this topic online
Navigator to browse
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: need Tonys Book Kitfox flying |
Steve Shinabery wrote:
>
> If any one has a copy of Tonys book.I would like to have one..new or
> used..or tell me where I could get a copy.sounds like a interesting book
> that I may beable to use..Thanks Steve Shinabery,,N554KF KF2 email me
> at shinco@bright.net
Just go to the EAA site. The set is on sale now to EAA members.
Regards,
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
Dave all ways you have great Videos again..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
dave wrote:
>
> While everyone is got cabin fever, here is a few videos we did on Dec 30
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzijAWJ_T6Y
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6fr1d4m5A
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H6fr1d4m5A
>
>
> couple of Kitfox flying around
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155960#155960
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: This feud isn't pretty! |
Thanks Mike. You hit it right on the head. It's no surprise that pilots are the
most anal retentive people on the face of the planet. That's why they make good
pilots - they obsess with everything all the time. On the positive side, it
helps keep them safe and improves commercial aviation. On the negative side,
they pull their hair out when they imagine anyone not following ALL OF THE RULES
(and they tattle)!!!! The FAA (authority)is GOD. As children, they tattled
on each other to their teachers. People don't change much, do they? They just
get older. But look at our culture! Endless, mindless PC sheep who can't think
for themselves! Independent thought is becoming a very rare commodity!! Break
out the Charmin! Kitfox Flyers ought to be a better breed. KICK ME NOW.
John Sandt, Ridgecrest Kitfox 7 constructor/independent thinker
<<<<<<<<Thank you Jim, I agree whole heartedly. But don't put that to just email.
I find that pilots sit on the ground and WATCH for people to break a rule
just to turn them into the FAA. Kitfoxmike>>>>>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fever -- no one flying ? |
Thanks for posting the links to the video's Dave. I'm getting a bad case of the
cabin fever. Pass on my compliments to the new flying Kitfox owner.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV, Phase one
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156059#156059
Message 46
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Dan took my floats and converted the bipe to a high lift aircraft so he and
his son could fly into high altitude lakes.
John Oakley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 5:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Biplane
I saw the wings in a hanger in Nampa, Idaho a few years back.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Billingsley <mailto:dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Biplane
Don't know why some of the posts I send show up empty...odd
try this again
Pat, I don't know alot about that plane other than it is no more. The plane
was taken apart and no longer exists. I heard that the wings were tucked
away in someones hanger, but I don't recall who or where. FWIW
Dan B
Do not archive
Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kitfoxers, I saw on Matt's Kitfox website a mod 4 that was converted to a
biplane by Denny. Does anybody know where I can find out more info on that
plane and the conversion?
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: need Tonys Book Kitfox flying |
There are 4 of 'em , Steve.
Lynn
On Jan 4, 2008, at 8:31 PM, Steve Shinabery wrote:
>
> If any one has a copy of Tonys book.I would like to have one..new
> or used..or tell me where I could get a copy.sounds like a
> interesting book that I may beable to use..Thanks Steve
> Shinabery,,N554KF KF2 email me at shinco@bright.net
>
> Don G wrote:Read this topic online Navigator to browse
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater muff style |
Roger that Mike... the valve has 2 outlets..when it is closed to the cabin, it
is diverted thru the outlet pointed down. I didn't stick a short hose on it yet.
Don't think it will be needed but I made it so I could just in case. It would
need to be about 6 inchs long and go straight down to the under-cowl opening.
I believe this will also help keep some heat away from the lower motor mount
rubbers, which as you know are real close to the muffler can. I am sure your
912 speedster is just like it. my motor mount rubbers show a little heat brittle
on the edges closest to the can now. This heat muff oughtta help that some.
And Lynn, yes, I understand and agree, in fact, in addition to the wrap on the
rear pipes that come so close to the firewall blanket, I installed small alum
sheilds against the firewall over the blanket because with the wrap on, it just
about touchs the blanket right on the bend. The heat had already cooked 2 black
spots on the blanket in that 1st 70 hours.
And when I read Tonys book, I also considered that the EGT temps could get a bunch
higher on the Mustang which probably had a 320 or a 360 in it, than on a
912, particularly when you have mixture control in the cockpit. Plus, he specified
they were mild steel headers, not stainless like mine. These considerations
gave me a little more confidence it the application.
As for the wraps on certified birds, they are pretty popular in alot of areas,
especially the further south you get. I also believe they are required on a Aztec,
and come standard on some models of Bonanza's.
When I was in College, at Spartan in Tulsa, we had wraps on most all of the 150's
on the flight line. Of Course back in the heyday of Aviation..the early 70s,
Those birds didnt cool off all day long, every day, as their flight training
program was very very busy.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156071#156071
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
I had sed:
>If you are that confident, why don't you post your tail number and
>address and we'll have the FAA come over and confirm your assertion?
To which kitfoxmike sez:
>Wow what a statement, you are the type of person I stay away from.
>It's people like you that give the FAA the power they have and harm aviation.
Mike, you have absolutely no idea what kind of person I am. I'm a
card carrying Libertarian and spend the rest of my time working hard
on reducing government to a size that most people would find
disturbingly small. I have never turned anyone in to the FAA, though
God knows there have been a few that deserve it for trying to kill
me. Like the guy that overflew Buckeye airport during my BFR a few
weeks ago 500 feet BELOW pattern altitude and perpendicular to the
runway. He was just passing through, it seems.
Apparently several of you missed my point. My comment above was an
attempt to get Steve to put up or shut up. Have you noticed that, no
matter the topic, he has a way of working his takeoff weight agenda
into the discussion? Somebody asks why Kitfoxes and Avids don't sell
for more on the used market and somehow he turns it into a jab at
Lowell and another plug for his interpretation of sport pilot rules.
Here's how I envision a conversation with Steve.
Me: "Hey Steve, how's it going?"
Steve: "Great, wanna see my hangar?"
Me: "Sure."
Steve: "This is my series 5, I fly it under sport pilot rules."
Me: "Pretty."
Steve: "If it weren't for all those people bashing me on the Kitfox
list and telling me I don't deserve to have it I could explain to
them how sport pilot rules work."
Me: "Yes, we've been through this before. So, where do you like to
go in your 'fox?"
Steve: "I like checking out the lakes in northern Minnesota. I can
do that because of the sport pilot rule."
Me: "Cool. Where else?"
Steve: "Any place the sport pilot rule lets me go. To bad those
'experts' on the Kitfox list are too dense to understand them."
Me: "You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as are the others on
the list."
Steve: "All they have to do is read about the sport pilot rules on
the FAA's web site."
Me: "Steve, is that ALL you can talk about, sport pilot rules?"
Steve: "Nah, there's much more to life. For example, we took some
great pictures when we were up north last time, keeping our takoff
weights under the limits in the sport pilot rule."
On the other hand, maybe my impression of Steve is as wrong as your
impression of me...
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Dave sez:
>I think Steve is right about that LSA weight issue a while back.
You mean a year ago and about 20 times since then? Yes, he's right
that the rule only mentions "maximum takeoff weight." The part he's
confused about is the meaning of the word "maximum", as in, "the most
ever" not "the takeoff weight I'm at today on this flight". Of
course, "maximum takeoff weight" makes no sense in the context of
only one takeoff, that would be just your "takeoff weight".
What the heck, we're talking about it again! :-)
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Don sez:
>I have built 5 flying machines in my life and I have long ago
>relegated to the fact that It was a lousy investment.
It's hard to imagine the terms "investment" and "home-built" in the
same sentence. :-)
I'm sure everyone has heard the old saw, "You know how to make a
small fortune in the aviation industry? Start with a large one!"
Mike G.
N728KF
Phoenix, AZ
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Autogas - color |
Gascolator removes water form gasoline, and I wouldn't be without one.
However the gascolator does the square root of sweet nothing for fuel laced
with ethanol except screen it. If you really have to fly on ethanol
contaminated fuel you are best off to use the oil injector in colder climes
as that is when you can get the phase separation.
Just back from New Years in St. John's
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, N.D.B., Newfoundland, Canada
E-Mail: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Kitfox III-A, 582, B-Box, Ivo IFA
Aerocet 1100 floats.
CDN Rec-PP, AME intern.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:06 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Autogas - color
BJ, I have seen the same in bench tests that same as you have.
Now If you add some blue pre mix oil into misture and shake it, it turns
blue.
NOW let it settle, you will see the gas oil mix stays blue and water
/ethanol will not adhere to the oil.
I have had no issues yet but I also buy gas in smaller quantities now and
use sealed containers and filter all my gas. I also use a gascolator.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=155496#155496
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Now that was funny and I hope Steve sees the humor in it. But I would add,
lets all keep it light and quit arguing the issue. We should like each
other for the sport we enjoy. I contend the whole FAA approach is just
plain stupid and that that should be the issue here--not what Steve is doing
or not doing. And Steve, don't say something hurtful that will turn your
allies away.
The FAA's possible interpretation as stated by EAA is like making sense out
of non sense. For those who don't agree with Steve, as the musical Can Can
says, "So What, So What." What's it to you. And Steve, don't talk about it
so much. The last thing you need is to draw attention from that one FAA
enforcer that thinks it matters a dam and that you are wrong. Go do your
thing and I for one will quietly cheer from behind the hangar. We should
all cheer for the pilot, not for some stupid, ill thought out rule
interpretation that is non sense.
I will try to make this my last posting on the subject.
Jim Crowder
do not archive
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Michael
> Gibbs
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 9:11 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Changing Ourselves!!
>
>
>
> I had sed:
>
> >If you are that confident, why don't you post your tail number and
> >address and we'll have the FAA come over and confirm your assertion?
>
> To which kitfoxmike sez:
>
> >Wow what a statement, you are the type of person I stay away from.
> >It's people like you that give the FAA the power they have and
> harm aviation.
>
> Mike, you have absolutely no idea what kind of person I am. I'm a
> card carrying Libertarian and spend the rest of my time working hard
> on reducing government to a size that most people would find
> disturbingly small. I have never turned anyone in to the FAA, though
> God knows there have been a few that deserve it for trying to kill
> me. Like the guy that overflew Buckeye airport during my BFR a few
> weeks ago 500 feet BELOW pattern altitude and perpendicular to the
> runway. He was just passing through, it seems.
>
> Apparently several of you missed my point. My comment above was an
> attempt to get Steve to put up or shut up. Have you noticed that, no
> matter the topic, he has a way of working his takeoff weight agenda
> into the discussion? Somebody asks why Kitfoxes and Avids don't sell
> for more on the used market and somehow he turns it into a jab at
> Lowell and another plug for his interpretation of sport pilot rules.
>
> Here's how I envision a conversation with Steve.
>
> Me: "Hey Steve, how's it going?"
>
> Steve: "Great, wanna see my hangar?"
>
> Me: "Sure."
>
> Steve: "This is my series 5, I fly it under sport pilot rules."
>
> Me: "Pretty."
>
> Steve: "If it weren't for all those people bashing me on the Kitfox
> list and telling me I don't deserve to have it I could explain to
> them how sport pilot rules work."
>
> Me: "Yes, we've been through this before. So, where do you like to
> go in your 'fox?"
>
> Steve: "I like checking out the lakes in northern Minnesota. I can
> do that because of the sport pilot rule."
>
> Me: "Cool. Where else?"
>
> Steve: "Any place the sport pilot rule lets me go. To bad those
> 'experts' on the Kitfox list are too dense to understand them."
>
> Me: "You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as are the others on
> the list."
>
> Steve: "All they have to do is read about the sport pilot rules on
> the FAA's web site."
>
> Me: "Steve, is that ALL you can talk about, sport pilot rules?"
>
> Steve: "Nah, there's much more to life. For example, we took some
> great pictures when we were up north last time, keeping our takoff
> weights under the limits in the sport pilot rule."
>
> On the other hand, maybe my impression of Steve is as wrong as your
> impression of me...
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF
> Phoenix, AZ
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Short Changing Ourselves!! |
Mike,
That was classic! It will definitely go down as one of the most humorous posts
I have read on an aviation website! Nice job!
Speaking of resale value, I just walked in from the shop to try to convince my
5 year old that by 10:45 he should be asleep. I am in the process of wiring my
panel and I can guarantee that I will never come close to getting out of my
Fox what I have in it...I will be lucky to get 50 - 60%. I guess it would be
nice for the resale values of our Kitfoxes to increase but I don't loose to much
sleep over it. I don't plan on selling mine.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Ogden, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156090#156090
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: This feud isn't pretty! |
At 03:42 PM 1/4/2008, you wrote:
>But here is the point, why are some so uptight about Steve and
>those who choose to see it differently, or as a grey area. Are we afraid
>someone else is going to have some fun flying?
Jim,
This thread has been repeatedly killed, not because it lacks
merit but because each time, (after the first,) no additional
information came to the fore and no volunteers came forward to test
Steve's theory either way. Michael and I kill any thread that ceases
to "add value" to the discussion in particular and to the list in
general. This time Steve has added that he is putting his money
(license?) where his mouth is and is flying his formerly 1550# gross
5 with a sport pilot license. That's good additional information,
however it doesn't open the thread to another destructive opinion
debate. If and when anybody gets some kind of "hard" confirmation
from the FAA either way I hope they'll share it with us, until then
this thread is still officially dead.
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 56
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| Subject: | Tony Bingelis Books |
Someone was asking where to buy Tony's books--an excellent investment:
SPECIAL MEMBER PRICE ON TONY BINGELIS BOOKS
(http://shop.eaa.org/html/2membership.html?cart_id=) The late Tony Bingelis'
four highly regarded books on homebuilding are available in a set for a
special price for EAA members. The books include ENGINES: Practical information
for all aircraft builders, owners, restorers, and mechanics. (224 pages);
FIREWALL FORWARD: Engine installation for amateur-built aircraft. (302 pages);
SPORTPLANE CONSTRUCTION: An essential handbook for light aircraft homebuilders.
(366 pages); and SPORTPLANE BUILDER: Aircraft construction methods for the
amateur builder. (316 pages). Non-members price is $89.99, but EAA members get
the entire set for $69.99. _Order online_
(http://shop.eaa.org/html/2membership.html?cart_id=) , or call 800-843-3612
Stan Specht
Kitfox Model IV Speedster "Columbine"
Denver, Colorado
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 57
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At 04:53 PM 1/4/2008, you wrote:
>We should be saying, we are not going to the FAA for anything
>period, for any reason. Let them find out about pilots on THEIR OWN.
Mike,
I'm guessing you're either being facetious, or you use some
other means of enforcement. (Baseball bat?) Is it really OK for
someone to drink and fly? Is it OK for them to do low-level
aerobatics over dense residential areas? How about just buzzing
houses? Are you really promoting anarchy in the pattern? Or do you do
recommend some kind of "personal" enforcement?
I could care less what someone does to himself. I
strenuously object, though, when they try to take away my flying
privileges. (I love flying.) That means I get upset when a pilot does
anything to upset the "little people", who don't understand safety,
only perceptions of safety. (I also get upset when pilots kill
passengers, because I never met a pilot who gave realistic risk
assessments to their passengers: e.g. "We're over gross and it's hot
as hell, but we're going to go ahead and take off down-wind because I
think we'll make it. The book says we'll all die, but I think we'll make it.")
Most countries don't even allow GA. In America we can fly
almost anything almost anywhere almost anytime. We get to put the
general public in danger of death and destruction WITHOUT THEIR
CONSENT. What's more, we don't even have to fly certified aircraft
anymore! And all this is done under the purview of the FAA.
If you think about it a little bit, you'll realize that the
FAA is probably on our side. A few statistics: (Source:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/factcard.pdf)
1. Out of 5288 public use airports, only 1381 are served by the
airline industry.
2. 81% of departures were GA.
3. 59% of hours flown were GA.
I suspect the majority of FAA personnel would be rather
upset at the demise of general aviation, as they would probably loose
their job. (Not to mention how many are pilots.)
Now I suppose we could take on enforcement ourselves. A lot
of people have taken to doing that while driving. It's usually called
"road rage" and it's seldom constructive. We, the public, have
constructed the FAA and all the other codes and enforcement to
convince the non-flying public that it is safe for us to fly over
their heads. I suggest we use the FAA to maintain that perception,
since the alternative is anarchy, or something akin to "air-rage",
neither of which will endear us to the ground-bound. If there are
problems with the FAA then we should fix them. We are not
defenseless, far from it.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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