---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/18/08: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:49 AM - Re: windscreen and flapperons (Dave G.) 2. 06:40 AM - Re: windscreen and flapperons (Jim Hakes) 3. 07:11 AM - Re: windscreen and flapperons (Michel Verheughe) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox XL () 5. 08:12 AM - Re: Kitfox XL (Tom Jones) 6. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: windscreen and flapperons (dave) 8. 11:52 AM - How much money have you spent? (JC) 9. 12:08 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (darinh) 10. 12:52 PM - Flaperons (jdmcbean) 11. 01:30 PM - Re: Flaperons (GONER752@aol.com) 12. 02:25 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (JC) 13. 02:27 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (Tom Jones) 14. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: How much money have you spent? (jdmcbean) 15. 02:52 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (darinh) 16. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: How much money have you spent? (Bill Hammond) 17. 06:12 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 01/15/08 (riquenkelly@aol.com) 18. 06:14 PM - KITFOX EXPANDS (SkySteve) 19. 09:40 PM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 01/15/08 (Guy Buchanan) 20. 09:40 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (Guy Buchanan) 21. 10:24 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (CDE2fly@aol.com) 22. 10:52 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (84KF) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:25 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons I have one new unused flaperon and one original from 1991, I can't see any difference, what should I be looking for? I have mounted them and it all looks good to me. Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hakes To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons Thanks for the info on the windscreens. I also would like to know if anyone with a Model IV has changed the flapperons to the new style. If so, was it a smooth transition. My Fox was originally a Model IV 1050 which I bought in 1992. I participated in the 1st Alaska Adventure in 1998. In the year 2001 I made an unscheduled landing which caused me to change the fuselage to a 1200. At that time I also upgraded the wing tips and landing gear and prepared it for floats. In 2004 one of my float landings ended up at -54 ft. So now I am about to get it flying again for the 3rd time. The Fox actually did a water loop and damaged the wing tip and flapperon. Skystar does not sell the old style flapperon so I have to switch to the new style so I have a matched set. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:54 AM PST US From: "Jim Hakes" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons When contacting Skystar they told me that they do not make the type of flaperon that I have. Mine is symmetrical and they now make them shaped more like a wing. I do not know when they made the change, but I do recall it was with the new models. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:44 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons I have one new unused flaperon and one original from 1991, I can't see any difference, what should I be looking for? I have mounted them and it all looks good to me. Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Hakes To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 2:01 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons Thanks for the info on the windscreens. I also would like to know if anyone with a Model IV has changed the flapperons to the new style. If so, was it a smooth transition. My Fox was originally a Model IV 1050 which I bought in 1992. I participated in the 1st Alaska Adventure in 1998. In the year 2001 I made an unscheduled landing which caused me to change the fuselage to a 1200. At that time I also upgraded the wing tips and landing gear and prepared it for floats. In 2004 one of my float landings ended up at -54 ft. So now I am about to get it flying again for the 3rd time. The Fox actually did a water loop and damaged the wing tip and flapperon. Skystar does not sell the old style flapperon so I have to switch to the new style so I have a matched set. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:36 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: windscreen and flapperons > From: Jim Hakes [jhakes@emily.net] > Mine is symmetrical and they now make them shaped more like a wing. But on my model 3 from 1991 they are not symmetrical; they are flat under, much like a wing profile. Wasn't that changed later to reduce induced yaw? Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:03 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox XL Tom, I think you're getting your models mixed up, I have a Classic 4 and it has a max gross weight of 1200 lbs. ---- Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/Flower Mound,TX ---- Tom Jones wrote: > > > > Could someone explain how to tell the difference between a Kitfox IV 1050 and a IV 1200? Thanks, Don > > > Don, besides the taller fin and rudder, the wing struts and tube landing gear main tubes are one inch OD on the 1200. On the 1050 those are smaller diameter tubes. There are some tubes in the fuselage that are larger on the 1200 also. > > The Classic 4 is limited to 1050 max gross as a power limitation, not an airframe limitation. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158856#158856 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:07 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox XL From: "Tom Jones" > Tom, I think you're getting your models mixed up, I have a Classic 4 and it has a max gross weight of 1200 lbs. I edited my first message to say the "Classic 4 with a 503 engine is limited to 1050 as a power limitation...." The edits must not go to those using the email version of the List. Bear with me, I'm still struggling learning to use this forum. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159027#159027 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:24 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location There is an increase in the size of the wing strut carry through and a couple of extra pieces of tube in the area behind the seat I also think there is a difference in the insert in the spar... John Mc Bean should be able to help you with all that type of thing. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 11:25 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location I am in the process of rebuilding a Model II that was damaged in an accident by the previous owner. In the process, all the fabric has been stripped off, and I have welded a height extension of eight inches onto the rudder and vertical fin. Also, I have installed an electric trim tab on the elevator. In rebuilding the wing, I need to replace at least the leading edge spars, and John and Debra have informed me that the replacements will be made of a heavier gauge tubing, as they will be the current design, and stronger than the originals. I am wondering what else I might have to do to bring the aircraft up to the specs of the Model III, as far as strength goes. Does anyone have any ideas? Mike mclayton@rochester.rr.com Mobile: 585-737-5506 Home: 585-352-1763 8 Adams Trail Spencerport, NY 14559 N16AF (KF II Rebuild in Progress) On Jan 16, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: My plane registered as a model III-A is buy the serial numbers a model II which the builder told me he had upgraded to a the same specs as a model III. I think in order for your mount to fit it would have to come off a model II. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:36 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, My 912 engine mount came off of a model 3. I don't know if it will fit your plane. I'm sure someone out there knows. I also have the grommet door that goes in the middle of the firewall. Shipping to Newfoundland must be expensive from almost anywhere. Pat Reilly _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location I'm in Newfoundland, Canada... As close as you can get to Europe on this continent without doing a lot of swimming. J I'm going to hold on to the 582 until I get the 912 flying then it's up for sale, lock stock and barrel. What model Kitfox is your mount made to fit? That's the big part I need now. My bolt pattern should be the same as the model II. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, Sorry, no, I do not have the 912 exhaust. I got this plane without the engine. I have the complete 912 engine mount and the firewall grommet door, however. What are you doing with your 582 firewall forward? Where are you located? Pat _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Pat I'm going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I'm considering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then putting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleaning. BTW you don't happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it will have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposition it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:44:17 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. Then you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know how far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that time than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194 > > > > > > > &===================== > ================ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:27 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: windscreen and flapperons From: "dave" yes the IV on mine are symmetrical and the newer ones are like the older ones and Avids that look more like a airfoil. Which one is better ? not sure the airfoil one should give better lift and the symmetrical one should be more aerodynamic. It kind of like Droop tips versus hoerner styled tip, no one can point and gain or loss in lift or speed. Only thing droops tips seem to bother some is less visibility for some reason. When i look of wing I can easily see with the droop tip the attitude to the horizon. Not sure if the tips and landing gear is really a upgrade , more like a preference > At that time I also upgraded the wing tips and landing gear and prepared it for floats. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159065#159065 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: How much money have you spent? From: "JC" <4corbett@optonline.net> I was wondering how much your project is costing you in comparison to what the Kitfox website says. Were there certain upgrades you felt you needed? Did instruments or a quality prop blow your budget? Just trying to get an idea what I might be in for if I take the plunge. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159080#159080 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:52 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? From: "darinh" What does the site say you can build one for? I couldn't find anywhere it gives a estimate...just actual kit and option costs. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (under Construction) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159084#159084 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:41 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperons With the talk of flaperons thought it may be time for clarification... The current flaperon is not like the early ones. The early model flaperons were flat bottom... the current ones are truly an airfoil.. If one was to look at a profile of the current ones and the symmetrical ones, one would find there is very little difference in airfoil. In comparison, The new style have decreased adverse yaw and are really much more stable in level flight and still have the sporty feel that the Kitfox is well known for. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" 11:55 AM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:57 PM PST US From: GONER752@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flaperons John, Out of curiosity, would the new style flapperons work with my early mod.II(ser. 375) with the under cambered wing? Hinges in the same location,etc. Thanks. Greg G. Macedon, N.Y. 23NK n375KL Mod 2 582 **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:21 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? From: "JC" <4corbett@optonline.net> darinh wrote: > What does the site say you can build one for? I couldn't find anywhere it gives a estimate...just actual kit and option costs. Price with Firewall Back Kit, Engine Component Kit and Engine $37,683 Firewall Back Kit $17,985 Firewall Forward Kit - Rotax 912 / 912S $4,195 Rotax 912S (100 hp) Engine $15,503 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159111#159111 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:10 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? From: "Tom Jones" > I was wondering how much your project is costing you in comparison to what the Kitfox website says. JC, one just needs to spec out the items they want to complete the plane to know what the total is, then you can stick close to that price by not adding goodies as you go. You will ruin parts occasionally and need to buy some incidentals you didn't think of or decide you must have. The price I paid for add ons in 1994 was about $3500 above the advertised price of $14995 for a complete kit including engine, instruments and polyfiber materials through the polyspray coat, but that probably doesn't mean much today. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159112#159112 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:58 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? JC.. unfortunately the price on the Rotax engine has increased.. The current 912ULS pricing is $19373.00 Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JC Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 3:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? darinh wrote: > What does the site say you can build one for? I couldn't find anywhere it gives a estimate...just actual kit and option costs. Price with Firewall Back Kit, Engine Component Kit and Engine $37,683 Firewall Back Kit $17,985 Firewall Forward Kit - Rotax 912 / 912S $4,195 Rotax 912S (100 hp) Engine $15,503 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159111#159111 11:55 AM 11:55 AM ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? From: "darinh" I don't think John has updated his 912s price yet. Rotax has increased the price on all their engines...the 912s is now $19,373. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (under Construction) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159117#159117 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:23 PM PST US From: Bill Hammond Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: How much money have you spent? I purchased a Series 6 kit in 2001 for the all inclusive price of $39,856. This kit included the Rotax 912S, fuselage, instruments, and interior. Not included were radios, paint, tools, fees, etc. My final out-of-pocket expense when the aircraft first flew in 2003 was $49,061. A detailed expense log is available on my web site (www.itsys3.com/kitfox) at the following link ftp://ftp.itsys3.com/expenselog.pdf Bill Hammond Parker Colorado ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 01/15/08 From: riquenkelly@aol.com Listers, ? Thank you very much for your advice on transporting my airplane.? Sounds like some of you have some good experience with this.? I am going to have to give it some more thought.? An enclosed car trailer would?be the perfect slution but may be cost prohibitive.? I will give it more thought.? I have heard of a special brace that is required to support the front spar while transporting.? Apparently there is a large amount of extra strees on the aft spar joint when the aircraft is subjected to road motion.? Any ideas where I would locate a pair of these? Thank so much for the advice.? I'd hate to damage the aircraft due to my ignorance. Cheers, Rique -----Original Message----- From: Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 2:58 am Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 01/15/08 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-01-15&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-01-15&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/15/08: 45 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:24 AM - Protecting a plane while transporting... (fox5flyer) 2. 04:35 AM - Re: Build time? (jlfernan) 3. 05:57 AM - Re: Build time? (wingnut) 4. 06:03 AM - Re: Battery Location (Lynn Matteson) 5. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 (Lynn Matteson) 6. 06:13 AM - Re: Build time? (Lynn Matteson) 7. 06:16 AM - Re: Build time? (jlfernan) 8. 06:37 AM - Re: engine selection (Lynn Matteson) 9. 07:10 AM - Re: Protecting a plane while transporting... (Noel Loveys) 10. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 (Paul Morel) 11. 09:34 AM - Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 12. 09:43 AM - Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 13. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 14. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 15. 09:54 AM - Re: Battery Location (dave) 16. 10:06 AM - Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 17. 10:08 AM - Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 18. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 19. 10:21 AM - Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 20. 10:30 AM - Re: Simply the best engines to use (jason Parker) 21. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 22. 10:43 AM - Re: Protecting a plane while transporting... (Bob Jones) 23. 10:57 AM - Re: Battery Location (Lynn Matteson) 24. 11:43 AM - Re: Protecting a plane while transporting... (floran higgins) 25. 12:17 PM - Re: Battery Location (patrick reilly) 26. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 27. 12:56 PM - Re: Build time? (wingnut) 28. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Battery Location (fox5flyer) 29. 01:58 PM - Re: Battery Location (Lynn Matteson) 30. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Build time? (steve eccles) 31. 04:34 PM - Build time? (Dee Young) 32. 05:04 PM - Re: Simply the best engines to use (JC Propeller Design) 33. 05:06 PM - Re: Protecting a plane while transporting... (akflyer) 34. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 35. 05:37 PM - Re: Battery Location (Noel Loveys) 36. 05:58 PM - Re: Build time? (W Duke) 37. 06:01 PM - Re: Simply the best engines to use (akflyer) 38. 07:35 PM - Re: Battery Location (Lynn Matteson) 39. 08:01 PM - Re: Build time? (CDE2fly@aol.com) 40. 08:26 PM - Re: Battery Location (dave) 41. 09:27 PM - Re: Battery Location (84KF) 42. 09:36 PM - Re: Battery Location (84KF) 43. 09:42 PM - Re: Battery Location (84KF) 44. 09:50 PM - Re: Battery Location (84KF) 45. 11:49 PM - Re: Simply the best engines to use (Michel Verheughe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:04 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... There was a guy who arrived at Oshkosh with a crushed Kitfox on a trailer. He did exactly what you are suggesting. The heat of the sun shrank the wrap. When I was looking at the mess and wondering what happened, he walked up, told me the story, and tried to sell it to me. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT "Nothing will ever be attempted, if all possible objections must first be overcome".- Samuel Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Zeppin" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... > > Another idea would be to use the wrap that's used on shipping pallets. > It's like saran wrap, but quite a bit thicker. Sticks to itself really > well, but not too much else. > You can get it in 14-16" widths I believe and you'd just wrap the plane up > like a monster loaf of bread or the like. No need to heat shrink. > > Ron > Tempe, AZ > Dreaming of Flying at the moment! > > > floran higgins wrote: >> I used a heat shrink plastic that boat dealers use to cover boats with >> when they ship them. It worked fine. >> Floran Higgins >> Helena, Mt. >> Speedster >> 912 ULS >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* riquenkelly@aol.com >> *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2008 7:30 PM >> *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 >> >> Listers, >> I have a classic 4 and am approaching a move for my work. I >> have a long way to go and intend to trailer the airplane. Has >> anyone tried to design a cover to protect the inside of the >> aircraft while riding on a trailer? The area vacated when the >> turtledeck is removed is exposed to the open air when folded. Any >> experience with this??? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Rique >> Classic 4 >> >> * >> * > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:35 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? From: "jlfernan" [/quote] Huh. That's easy. It's twice as long as whatever you think it is.[/quote] That's exactly what happened to me, which is why I'm here. I originally wanted a Kitfox but just when I was ready to order, the company went out of business. I ended up by a Vans RV-9A kit, have spent two years working and am about a third of the way thru. I'm selling it and am coming back to Kitfox. Vans quotes 1200-1500 on thier QB kits which is why I was asking. By the way, any builders or flyers in S.Fla? -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158255#158255 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:13 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? From: "wingnut" > That's exactly what happened to me, which is why I'm here. I originally wanted a Kitfox but just when I was ready to order, the company went out of business. I ended up by a Vans RV-9A kit, have spent two years working and am about a third of the way thru. Any idea how many hours you've been working on it? -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158265#158265 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:38 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location I guess this proves once and for all that the Jabiru is lighter....my battery is on the firewall, engine side. (tongue firmly in cheek) Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs do not archive On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > Based on the published info, the 912 weighs at least 25# more than > the 582. Thus the rearward battery placement. I have mine on the > firewall, cabin side. I'd say your guess is right on. > > Pat Reilly wrote: > Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 > @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as that is > the only wing tank option I am familiar with. The fuel header tank > is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was installed > about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installing > a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back > of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine batteryBe a > better friend, newshound, and_- > ============================================================ _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > ========================================================== > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:27 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 When I had to move my plane on a trailer for the weight check (20 miles each way), I taped plastic sheeting over the area...it was raining...and it worked well. It sounds like you have much further to go, so I'd really cross-tape the plastic film in place if you decide to do this. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs do not archive On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:30 PM, riquenkelly@aol.com wrote: > Listers, > I have a classic 4 and am approaching a move for my work. I > have a long way to go and intend to trailer the airplane. Has > anyone tried to design a cover to protect the inside of the > aircraft while riding on a trailer? The area vacated when the > turtledeck is removed is exposed to the open air when folded. Any > experience with this??? > > Thanks! > > Rique > Classic 4 > 582 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:05 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Build time? Retired builder here...19 months...6-8 hrs daily, but not every day. Wings were "quick-build" kit. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:24 PM, jlfernan wrote: > > Just started lurking here. I'm going to be going to the factory > for a tour and possible order a Super Sport. One question I have > is what is the approx. build time on Kit Foxes? > > -------- > Jorge Fernandez > N214JL Reserved > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158181#158181 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:16 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? From: "jlfernan" Added it up this morning. 545.2 hrs so far, no end in sight. -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158272#158272 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:29 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: engine selection Similar reply to Michel's....I used the Jabiru-supplied spinner, the Skyfox cowl (Aussie knockoff of the Kitfox, I'm told, bought through Jabiru USA, but needing extensive fiberglas modifications to fit), the jabiru cooling ducts (fiberglas), and followed the Jabiru instructions (such as they were) for the installation. I might be a bit more of an engine person than Michel, but in the end we both have very flyable planes. Hey Michel, we ought to figure out the distances we've flown these birds. : ) Of course, Stan out in Colorado has us all beat with his 49-state flights. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 15, 2008, at 2:40 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 10:55 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> Michel: >> One other point on the cooling. With an air cooled engine, even >> an engine >> which has only air cooled barrels the size and shape of the >> spinner can make >> a considerable difference to your air cooling efficiency. > > Very good point, Noel, and thank you for reminding me that: Yes, I > use a Jabiru spinner. As I said earlier; I am not in the business > of experimental aviation; I only want to be up there - it's a magic > force that makes me cry when I am on the ground and see a perfect > flying day's sky calling me: "Come and play in my clouds! See the > world from above ... " > ... okay, I am loosing the thread here; what I meant to say is > that, if you want to install safe, install as the Aussies meant it > should be: the propeller, the spinner, the little bolt that you > don't know what it is used for - everything - is part of the > propulsion unit. Use it! Some intelligent people have designed it > for you! > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:42 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Be careful when using either heat shrink or cling wrap. One layer won't do too anything but several layers stretched around the plane add together and can do damage to the plane itself... something like tightening the skins too much. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Zeppin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:54 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Another idea would be to use the wrap that's used on shipping pallets. It's like saran wrap, but quite a bit thicker. Sticks to itself really well, but not too much else. You can get it in 14-16" widths I believe and you'd just wrap the plane up like a monster loaf of bread or the like. No need to heat shrink. Ron Tempe, AZ Dreaming of Flying at the moment! floran higgins wrote: > I used a heat shrink plastic that boat dealers use to cover boats with > when they ship them. It worked fine. > > Floran Higgins > Helena, Mt. > Speedster > 912 ULS > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* riquenkelly@aol.com > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2008 7:30 PM > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 > > Listers, > I have a classic 4 and am approaching a move for my work. I > have a long way to go and intend to trailer the airplane. Has > anyone tried to design a cover to protect the inside of the > aircraft while riding on a trailer? The area vacated when the > turtledeck is removed is exposed to the open air when folded. Any > experience with this??? > > Thanks! > > Rique > Classic 4 > > * > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:28 AM PST US From: "Paul Morel" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:19 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Lynn, Looks like you are one of the most experienced Kitfoxers on this site . One more question on this mod 3 rebuild. There is a tube running to the r ear of the fusalage to a static port. It is a few inches forward of the gra b handle on the back of the fusalage. I will leave it there, but is it nece ssary or more accurate located back there. I think it was hooked up to the altimiter. > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Loca tion> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:02:56 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> guess this proves once and for all that the Jabiru is lighter....my > batt ery is on the firewall, engine side. (tongue firmly in cheek)> > Lynn Matte son> Grass Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/460+ hrs> do not archive> > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > > > Based on the published info, the 912 weighs at least 25# more than > > the 582. Thus the rearward battery placement. I have mine on the > > fire wall, cabin side. I'd say your guess is right on.> >> > Pat Reilly wrote:> > Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 > > @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 g als as that is > > the only wing tank option I am familiar with. The fuel h eader tank > > is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was inst alled > > about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installin g > > a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back > > of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine batteryBe a > > better friend, newshound, and_- > > ============== ==================== _- > > http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > ======== = _- > > forums.matronics.com_- > > =========== ======================= _- > > contribution_- > > ================= ====================> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:23 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Noel, Thanks for the advice. I will get the weight and balance of the plane after rebuilding it. I know there are others on this site that have experi ence with this exact circumstance and wanted to make necessary changes befo re recovering. It's much easier. Pat Reilly From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Battery LocationDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:13:45 -0330 With something as major as an engine replacement I would install the new en gine and reweigh the plane then make appropriate changes as necessary. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:0 3 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as that is the only wing tan k option I am familiar with. The fuel header tank is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was installed about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installing a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? Pat Reilly Rockford, Illinois http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.co mhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:32 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Dave thanks for the advice. I wondered if some 582's used the battery locat ion behind the seat. Maybe I will wait to remount the battery. Pat Reilly> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location> From: dave@cfisher.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:13:35 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfo x-List message posted by: "dave" > > Yup , i would wait t ill you all done the do the w & B.> > my IV model with 582 has the battery behind the seat.> > --------> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada> Flying Videos a nd Kitfox Info> http://www.cfisher.com/> > > > > Read this topic online her e:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158205#158205> > > > > -======================= ==> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:10 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it wi ll have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposi tion it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly> Subject: Kitfox-List : Re: Battery Location> From: nahsikhs@elltel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 1 8:44:17 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message pos ted by: "Tom Jones" > > > > My question is, should I m ove the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 eng ine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. The n you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know h ow far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that ti me than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic IV, Phase one> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ellensbur g, WA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/ ================> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location From: "dave" Pat, I could check the builders manual if you like. I also have put 6 gals gas cans behind the seat on skis. I have put in excess of 50 lbs in sack behind seat while on floats -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158322#158322 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:23 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Guy, Thanks for the advice on battery placement. Pat Reilly Rockford IL @nethere.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery LocationAt 04:33 PM 1/14/2008 , you wrote: My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, wher e I see some other 582 engine battery installations? You already know the right way. But I'll add that my 582/IV has the battery just behin d the firewall and its CG is "too far" aft, which means I can't run 40 poun ds in my baggage compartment at full gross without going aft of the rear CG limit. Guy BuchananSan Diego, CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostl y to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:03 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Plan to loose assemble to do your W&B. Then you can make the right decision where to place the battery before running any cable. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:12 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Noel, Thanks for the advice. I will get the weight and balance of the plane after rebuilding it. I know there are others on this site that have experience with this exact circumstance and wanted to make necessary changes before recovering. It's much easier. Pat Reilly _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location With something as major as an engine replacement I would install the new engine and reweigh the plane then make appropriate changes as necessary. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as that is the only wing tank option I am familiar with. The fuel header tank is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was installed about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installing a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? Pat Reilly Rockford, Illinois http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:07 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Pat I'm going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I'm considering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then putting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleaning. BTW you don't happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it will have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposition it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:44:17 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. Then you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know how far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that time than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194 > > > > > > > &==================== > =============== > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:49 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Noel, Thanks. Good advice to loose assemble. Will do. Pat Reilly From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Battery LocationDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:37:23 -0330 Plan to loose assemble to do your W&B. Then you can make the right decisio n where to place the battery before running any cable. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reillySent: Tuesday, January 15, 200 8 2:12 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Loc ation Noel, Thanks for the advice. I will get the weight and balance of the plane after rebuilding it. I know there are others on this site that have experi ence with this exact circumstance and wanted to make necessary changes befo re recovering. It's much easier. Pat Reilly From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Battery LocationDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:13:45 -0330 With something as major as an engine replacement I would install the new en gine and reweigh the plane then make appropriate changes as necessary. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:0 3 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as that is the only wing tan k option I am familiar with. The fuel header tank is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was installed about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installing a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? Pat Reilly Rockford, Illinois http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.co mhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matroni cs.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:03 AM PST US From: jason Parker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use The rotax 912 engine has a track record which spans 18 years and still they are coming out with new CB's. My point is, it takes alot of hours to see what is going to fail in the air and what is going to work. Some engines that work great on the ground, dont due to well in the air. The power to weight ratio of the rotax is outstanding. The build in gear reduction and watercooled heads make the rotax 912's and 914's a very remarkable engine. Find me more than 10 people with a CZ PSRU, or BMW/PSRU with more than a few hundred hours. I can show you a list of people with stock 912's and 914's with 4000hours plus. The only other engine I stand by is the Subaru. Jason JC Propeller Design wrote: @font-face { font-family: Cambria Math; } @font-face { font-family: Calibri; } @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Consolas; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99 } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99 } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99 } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-priority: 99 } PRE { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; mso-style-priority: 99; mso-style-link: "HTML Preformatted Char" } SPAN.HTMLPreformattedChar { FONT-FAMILY: Consolas; mso-style-priority: 99; mso-style-link: "HTML Preformatted"; mso-style-name: "HTML Preformatted Char" } SPAN.EmailStyle19 { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; mso-style-type: personal-reply } .MsoChpDefault { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-style-type: export-only } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } There is a big world outside America, can't be more difficult for American to buy from Europe then for us to buy from USA. If I understand it right there is no import fee in USA for aircraft spare part? My Polish friend recommend the CZ PSRU, after have installed 35 of them with different PSRU's, there is Polish and German built too. There is complete German BMW/PSRU for sale for 7000Euro/10300$US but why pay that much? Or 15-20K for a ROTAX if saving 10.000 USD you can buy a lot of gas for that, and a new GPS, and a single malt for the wife. (they usually don't like it, so you "have to" drink it) And the best is this is real HP's not like Continental where you get about 80-85 HP netto from a O-200 with silencer and alternator The Polish friend just ask for 85 HP at 6200 RPM (98HP / 7200) with a 2,35 gear ratio, driving a 69"X39" prop, he don't have ground clearance for bigger prop, but there is other gear ratio too. He use 10-11 liter/h (2,6-3 GPH) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:32 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Who does??? (Sell them) I looked and couldnt find any one. Also finding a used BMW here is like looking for hens teeth. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC Propeller Design Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Or you can have a BMW 1100 S 98 HP at just 3000USD complete with PSRU and electronic fuel injection. Jan Ps, and I don't even sell them. ----- Original Message ----- From: jason Parker To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use www.experimentalfuelinjection offers fuel injected engines 914's starting at 15000USD and kit for fuel injection starting at 4500. We offer Fuel injection done right. Standard equipment is a wideband 02 sensor and a 55 amp alternator. Jason Parker 661 428-1850 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ NOD32 2789 (20080114) Information __________ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ NOD32 2791 (20080114) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:26 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, Sorry, no, I do not have the 912 exhaust. I got this plane without th e engine. I have the complete 912 engine mount and the firewall grommet doo r, however. What are you doing with your 582 firewall forward? Where are yo u located? Pat From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Re: Battery LocationDate: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 14:42:20 -0330 Pat I=92m going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I=92m co nsidering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then p utting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleanin g. BTW you don=92t happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reillySent: Tuesday, January 15, 200 8 2:21 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it wi ll have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposi tion it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly> Subject: Kitfox-List : Re: Battery Location> From: nahsikhs@elltel.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 1 8:44:17 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message pos ted by: "Tom Jones" > > > > My question is, should I m ove the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 eng ine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. The n you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know h ow far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that ti me than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic IV, Phase one> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ellensbur g, WA> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/ viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194> > > > > > > &======== =============> ========== ======> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhtt p://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:07 AM PST US From: "Bob Jones" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... If you have the flexibility to tow only in good weather, consider covering the fox overnight and during times of rain with a tarp made of soft "breathable" car cover material. I would not want to tow at road speeds with this setup. I had a local boat canvas shop order some of the breathable material, sew a hem around the edge and install some gromets so I can hold the cover in place with lite bungees. (There are multiple grades and manufacturers of waterproof but soft breathable material and the cost per linear foot or square yard varies quite a bit). ( The first boat canvas shop wanted to double the LIST price and shipping of the material to do the job which is a normal practice for custom work. However, sewing a hem around the edge of a rectangular tarp and installing gromets is much less labor intensive than most custom boat canvas work and a second shop gave me a much more reasonable price so be prepared to negotiate a bit if you go this route.) I use this cover frequently when I want to leave the plane outside with the wings folded as well as when I leave the plane in a farm shed where bird droppings are a real problem. Bottom line is the cover has been very useful to me. (As an aside I hanger my model IV in an enclosed car trailer at our house in the Florida Keys to keep the fox out of the horribly corrosive salt air environment. I have towed the plane with the wings folded within the car trailer all over the country on fly-drive trips covering easily over 20,000 miles without damaging the plane. What a hoot!) BJ N154K N626NR bjones@dmv.com 443-480-1023 Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:09 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Be careful when using either heat shrink or cling wrap. One layer won't do too anything but several layers stretched around the plane add together and can do damage to the plane itself... something like tightening the skins too much. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Zeppin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:54 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Another idea would be to use the wrap that's used on shipping pallets. It's like saran wrap, but quite a bit thicker. Sticks to itself really well, but not too much else. You can get it in 14-16" widths I believe and you'd just wrap the plane up like a monster loaf of bread or the like. No need to heat shrink. Ron Tempe, AZ Dreaming of Flying at the moment! floran higgins wrote: > I used a heat shrink plastic that boat dealers use to cover boats with > when they ship them. It worked fine. > > Floran Higgins > Helena, Mt. > Speedster > 912 ULS > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* riquenkelly@aol.com > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2008 7:30 PM > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 > > Listers, > I have a classic 4 and am approaching a move for my work. I > have a long way to go and intend to trailer the airplane. Has > anyone tried to design a cover to protect the inside of the > aircraft while riding on a trailer? The area vacated when the > turtledeck is removed is exposed to the open air when folded. Any > experience with this??? > > Thanks! > > Rique > Classic 4 > > * > * to browse Un/Subscription, Browse, Chat, FAQ, more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.com support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:59 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location We are all in a heap of trouble if I am! : ) No, there are FAR more experienced than me in this group...I'm just one of the mouthy ones, and I can't even take credit for that...they know who they are. : ) The static port has a specific location spelled out in the build instructions. The original Kitfox kit builders did a lot of testing, I'm told, to determine an area that was neutral to the airstream, and thus a good location for the static port which should be "static"...that is, "standing still, having no motion, quiescent." I think it should be used as suggested. I also made another location, directly across the fuse from the originally suggested location, to avoid any discrepancies in airspeed when slipping the aircraft. I hope yours is on the side of the fuselage, and not "on the back" as you describe it. Maybe somebody has their builders instructions closer than mine, and can answer this positioning question for you. Mine's at the hangar, where I'm going pretty soon to make some marks in the new snow. I'll look it up while there. After I wrote the word "quiescent" I knew it was time to head for the hangar and blow out the cobwebs...quiescent? Where in the world did that come from? : ) ( I had to look up "static" and came upon it...anybody that knows me knows damn well that I don't know that word.) Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 15, 2008, at 12:33 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, Looks like you are one of the most experienced Kitfoxers on > this site. One more question on this mod 3 rebuild. There is a tube > running to the rear of the fusalage to a static port. It is a few > inches forward of the grab handle on the back of the fusalage. I > will leave it there, but is it necessary or more accurate located > back there. I think it was hooked up to the altimiter. > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location > > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:02:56 -0500 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > I guess this proves once and for all that the Jabiru is > lighter....my > > battery is on the firewall, engine side. (tongue firmly in cheek) > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/460+ hrs > > do not archive > > > > > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > > > > > Based on the published info, the 912 weighs at least 25# more than > > > the 582. Thus the rearward battery placement. I have mine on the > > > firewall, cabin side. I'd say your guess is right on. > > > > > > Pat Reilly wrote: > > > Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2 > > > @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as > that is > > > the only wing tank option I am familiar with. The fuel header tank > > > is about 18 inches behind the seat back.The battery was installed > > > about 2 feet behind the seat back on the fusalage. I am installing > > > a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I move the battery to the back > > > of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine batteryBe a > > > better friend, newshound, and_- > > > =================================== _- > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > > ========== _- > > > forums.matronics.com_- > > > =================================== _- > > > contribution_- > > > ================================= > > > > > > >========================> > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > ========================================================== ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:14 AM PST US From: "floran higgins" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... The type of heat shrink that I used was cut to fit around the windshield and windows and the opening of the turtle deck. It was held on with a tape that was provided by the boat dealer. This tape would pull loose before the plastic could cause any damage. I trailered the airplane from California to Montana without any damage but it was in the wintertime during a snowstorm so I didn't have to worry about the effect of the sun. Floran Higgins Helena, Mt. Speedster 912 ULS ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:09 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Be careful when using either heat shrink or cling wrap. One layer won't do too anything but several layers stretched around the plane add together and can do damage to the plane itself... something like tightening the skins too much. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Zeppin Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:54 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Protecting a plane while transporting... Another idea would be to use the wrap that's used on shipping pallets. It's like saran wrap, but quite a bit thicker. Sticks to itself really well, but not too much else. You can get it in 14-16" widths I believe and you'd just wrap the plane up like a monster loaf of bread or the like. No need to heat shrink. Ron Tempe, AZ Dreaming of Flying at the moment! floran higgins wrote: > I used a heat shrink plastic that boat dealers use to cover boats with > when they ship them. It worked fine. > > Floran Higgins > Helena, Mt. > Speedster > 912 ULS > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* riquenkelly@aol.com > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, January 14, 2008 7:30 PM > *Subject:* Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 12/19/07 > > Listers, > I have a classic 4 and am approaching a move for my work. I > have a long way to go and intend to trailer the airplane. Has > anyone tried to design a cover to protect the inside of the > aircraft while riding on a trailer? The area vacated when the > turtledeck is removed is exposed to the open air when folded. Any > experience with this??? > > Thanks! > > Rique > Classic 4 > > * > * to browse Un/Subscription, Browse, Chat, FAQ, more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List Web Forums! http://forums.matronics.com support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:41 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Lynn, THE STATIC PORT WAS ON THE SIDE OF THE FUSALAGE JUST IN FRONT OF THE GRAB HANDLE. Looks like I hit the caps lock. Did you join the 2 ports, righ t side and left side with a tee? Pat> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:56:39 -0500> To: on > > We are all in a heap of trouble if I am! : ) No, t here are FAR more > experienced than me in this group...I'm just one of the mouthy ones, > and I can't even take credit for that...they know who they are. : )> The static port has a specific location spelled out in the build > instructions. The original Kitfox kit builders did a lot of testing, > I' m told, to determine an area that was neutral to the airstream, and > thus a good location for the static port which should be > "static"...that is, " standing still, having no motion, quiescent." I > think it should be used a s suggested. I also made another location, > directly across the fuse from the originally suggested location, to > avoid any discrepancies in airspeed when slipping the aircraft. I > hope yours is on the side of the fuselage, and not "on the back" as > you describe it. Maybe somebody has their build ers instructions > closer than mine, and can answer this positioning questi on for you. > Mine's at the hangar, where I'm going pretty soon to make som e marks > in the new snow. I'll look it up while there.> > After I wrote th e word "quiescent" I knew it was time to head for the > hangar and blow out the cobwebs...quiescent? Where in the world did > that come from? : ) ( I had to look up "static" and came upon > it...anybody that knows me knows da mn well that I don't know that word.)> > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michiga n> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/460+ hrs> > > On Jan 15, 200 8, at 12:33 PM, patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn, Looks like you are one of the most experienced Kitfoxers on > > this site. One more question on this mod 3 rebuild. There is a tube > > running to the rear of the fusalage to a static port. It is a few > > inches forward of the grab handle on the back of the fusalage. I > > will leave it there, but is it necessary or more ac curate located > > back there. I think it was hooked up to the altimiter.> >> > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Locati on> > > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:02:56 -0500> > > To: kitfox-list@matronic jps.net>> > >> > > I guess this proves once and for all that the Jabiru is > > lighter....my> > > battery is on the firewall, engine side. (tongue fir mly in cheek)> > >> > > Lynn Matteson> > > Grass Lake, Michigan> > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> > > flying w/460+ hrs> > > do not archive> > > > > >> > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 9:05 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:> > >> > > > Ba sed on the published info, the 912 weighs at least 25# more than> > > > the 582. Thus the rearward battery placement. I have mine on the> > > > firewa ll, cabin side. I'd say your guess is right on.> > > >> > > > Pat Reilly

wrote:> > > > Kitfoxers, I am rebuilding a Model 3 that had a 912 engine and 2> > > > @13 gallon wing tanks. At least I think they are 13 gals as > > that is> > > > the only wing tank option I am famil iar with. The fuel header tank> > > > is about 18 inches behind the seat ba ck.The battery was installed> > > > about 2 feet behind the seat back on th e fusalage. I am installing> > > > a 582 Rotax. My question is, should I mo ve the battery to the back> > > > of the firewall, where I see some other 5 82 engine batteryBe a> > > > better friend, newshound, and_-> > > > = ======== _-> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfo x-List_-> > > > ========== _-> > > > forums.matronics.c om_-> > > > ==================== ============== _-> > > > contribution_-> > > > ==========> > > >> > >> > >======== ===============>> > >> > >> > http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > =========== ======================= _- > > forums.matronics.com_- > > ============== ==================== _- > > contrib ution_- > > ==================== ================> > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:34 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location I'm in Newfoundland, Canada... As close as you can get to Europe on this continent without doing a lot of swimming. J I'm going to hold on to the 582 until I get the 912 flying then it's up for sale, lock stock and barrel. What model Kitfox is your mount made to fit? That's the big part I need now. My bolt pattern should be the same as the model II. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:05 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, Sorry, no, I do not have the 912 exhaust. I got this plane without the engine. I have the complete 912 engine mount and the firewall grommet door, however. What are you doing with your 582 firewall forward? Where are you located? Pat _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Pat I'm going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I'm considering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then putting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleaning. BTW you don't happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it will have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposition it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:44:17 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. Then you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know how far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that time than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194 > > > > > > > &==================== > =============== > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? From: "wingnut" > Added it up this morning. 545.2 hrs so far, no end in sight. If you're 1/3 of the way through with 545 hours then you're not really that far off the high end of the factory estimate of 1500 hours. Am I misunderstanding something? -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158373#158373 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:09 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, there is a 912s exhaust on Barnstomers. I just saw it a couple days ago. Search "Kitfox" and on page three you should run across it. It seems a little pricey, but I don't know what they go for. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:12 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Pat I'm going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I'm considering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then putting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleaning. BTW you don't happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:21 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it will have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposition it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:44:17 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. Then you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know how far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that time than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194 > > > > > > > &==================== > =============== > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:22 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Yes I did, Pat. That was one of the few things that my tech advisor caught me on...I didn't have a support for the "teed" junction, and I had to get in there from an inspection hole in the bottom of the fuse, and install one...what a bear! The tubing is so stiff that it would likely hold itself in place, but he insisted on it. Perhaps vibration over time could break the tubes, what do I know? I couldn't find the drawing of the exact placement in my manual, but I measured my plane and the dimensions are: 5 and 1/8 inches from the bottom of the lower longeron, and 44 inches forward from the center of the cross tube back near the tailwheel....I think it's the only crosstube that is near there that protrudes through the fabric. This does place the port just in front of the lift handle, but quite low on the side. Is that where yours is? Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 15, 2008, at 3:16 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, THE STATIC PORT WAS ON THE SIDE OF THE FUSALAGE JUST IN FRONT > OF THE GRAB HANDLE. Looks like I hit the caps lock. Did you join > the 2 ports, right side and left side with a tee? Pat > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:09 PM PST US From: "steve eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? that last 5% is a kicker Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? > Added it up this morning. 545.2 hrs so far, no end in sight. If you're 1/3 of the way through with 545 hours then you're not really that far off the high end of the factory estimate of 1500 hours. Am I misunderstanding something? -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158373#158373 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:02 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Kitfox-List: Build time? It took me 18 months including many evenings and weekends to get it done. Dee Young Model II Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: steve eccles To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:10 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? > that last 5% is a kicker Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of wingnut Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:54 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Build time? > > Added it up this morning. 545.2 hrs so far, no end in sight. If you're 1/3 of the way through with 545 hours then you're not really that far off the high end of the factory estimate of 1500 hours. Am I misunderstanding something? -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158373#158373 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:15 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Oh my ... I didn't realize you are selling used engines, 12-17K each and no guarantee. good deal! I stay out of the CB's Jan Ps there is BMW with 3500 h, and you get 5 engines for 15K that's 17500 h :-) Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: jason Parker To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use The rotax 912 engine has a track record which spans 18 years and still they are coming out with new CB's. My point is, it takes alot of hours to see what is going to fail in the air and what is going to work. Some engines that work great on the ground, dont due to well in the air. The power to weight ratio of the rotax is outstanding. The build in gear reduction and watercooled heads make the rotax 912's and 914's a very remarkable engine. Find me more than 10 people with a CZ PSRU, or BMW/PSRU with more than a few hundred hours. I can show you a list of people with stock 912's and 914's with 4000hours plus. The only other engine I stand by is the Subaru. Jason JC Propeller Design wrote: There is a big world outside America, can't be more difficult for American to buy from Europe then for us to buy from USA. If I understand it right there is no import fee in USA for aircraft spare part? My Polish friend recommend the CZ PSRU, after have installed 35 of them with different PSRU's, there is Polish and German built too. There is complete German BMW/PSRU for sale for 7000Euro/10300$US but why pay that much? Or 15-20K for a ROTAX if saving 10.000 USD you can buy a lot of gas for that, and a new GPS, and a single malt for the wife. (they usually don't like it, so you "have to" drink it) And the best is this is real HP's not like Continental where you get about 80-85 HP netto from a O-200 with silencer and alternator The Polish friend just ask for 85 HP at 6200 RPM (98HP / 7200) with a 2,35 gear ratio, driving a 69"X39" prop, he don't have ground clearance for bigger prop, but there is other gear ratio too. He use 10-11 liter/h (2,6-3 GPH) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:32 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Who does??? (Sell them) I looked and couldn't find any one. Also finding a used BMW here is like looking for hen's teeth. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC Propeller Design Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:19 PM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Or you can have a BMW 1100 S 98 HP at just 3000USD complete with PSRU and electronic fuel injection. Jan Ps, and I don't even sell them. ----- Original Message ----- From: jason Parker To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use www.experimentalfuelinjection offers fuel injected engines 914's starting at 15000USD and kit for fuel injection starting at 4500. We offer Fuel injection done right. Standard equipment is a wideband 02 sensor and a 55 amp alternator. Jason Parker 661 428-1850 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c __________ NOD32 2789 (20080114) Information __________ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution __________ NOD32 2791 (20080114) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:18 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Protecting a plane while transporting... From: "akflyer" My brother towed his from OK to Alaska on an open car hauler that he put a vee nose on. The plane made it here in one piece un-harmed. He drove through rain, sleet, snow and sunshine. I promise you that the trip he made was much more punishing than any county road or interstate. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158423#158423 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/johns_kitfox_on_trailer_699.jpg ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:08 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Found it but it is for a pusher configuration. Thanks keep your eyes open for me Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Noel, there is a 912s exhaust on Barnstomers. I just saw it a couple days ago. Search "Kitfox" and on page three you should run across it. It seems a little pricey, but I don't know what they go for. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:12 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Pat I'm going the other way installing a 912 where a 582 now lives. I'm considering moving my header tank, almost 14 lb full, behind the seat. Then putting the oil tank where the header is now, behind the instrument panel. I have to see if it will be easily removable form that location for cleaning. BTW you don't happen to have an exhaust?? Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location Tom, Thanks for the advice. I have removed the battery. I am 90% sure it will have to come forward with the lighter engine. But, I will wait to reposition it with the new weight and balance. Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net > Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:44:17 -0800 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > > Pat, I would leave the battery where it is until the rebuild is complete enough to do a close weight and balance. Then you can move the battery forward if needed and you will be able to know how far. It will probably be easier to remove the existing cables at that time than to reinstall them if you need the CG to move back. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158194#158194 > > > > > > > &==================== > =============== > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:42 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Location With the tube going forward it can exert a considerable stress on the cross tube. That in turn coulddamage your exterior finish. If the long tube ever broke or came free it could possibly foul your rudder cables or elevator tube.... Mr. Murphy is alive and well let's not tempt him :-) Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Yes I did, Pat. That was one of the few things that my tech advisor caught me on...I didn't have a support for the "teed" junction, and I had to get in there from an inspection hole in the bottom of the fuse, and install one...what a bear! The tubing is so stiff that it would likely hold itself in place, but he insisted on it. Perhaps vibration over time could break the tubes, what do I know? I couldn't find the drawing of the exact placement in my manual, but I measured my plane and the dimensions are: 5 and 1/8 inches from the bottom of the lower longeron, and 44 inches forward from the center of the cross tube back near the tailwheel....I think it's the only crosstube that is near there that protrudes through the fabric. This does place the port just in front of the lift handle, but quite low on the side. Is that where yours is? Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 15, 2008, at 3:16 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, THE STATIC PORT WAS ON THE SIDE OF THE FUSALAGE JUST IN FRONT > OF THE GRAB HANDLE. Looks like I hit the caps lock. Did you join > the 2 ports, right side and left side with a tee? Pat > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:00 PM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Build time? 2 and a half years with appr 1200 hours. S6/TD/IO240/IFR equipped/ 3 color paint. Half of the hours were cover and paint. Beforehand I did not believe it when everybody said covering was the the most satisfying. Now I agree. Maxwell Duke Just started lurking here. I'm going to be going to the factory for a tour and possible order a Super Sport. One question I have is what is the approx. build time on Kit Foxes? -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158181#158181 Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Simply the best engines to use From: "akflyer" Jan, Do you have a web site for the 98 hp? sounds like something I would be interested in. Thanks -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158435#158435 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:04 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Huh? Are we talking about the same tube here, Noel? I was talking about the 3/16" or 1/4" nylon tube that carries the static pressure. In my case I had the two side static port tubes going into a tee, and from there forward about 12" to a tie wrap around a fuselage cross member. From there forward, the tubing was supported every 12" or so with tie wraps done in the approved way...with standoffs. My tech advisor wanted a bracket to support the tubes at the "tee." The side tubes curved upwardly to the tee, thus there was some vibration absorption going on via the curved tubing...nylon tubing. Are you suggesting this nylon tubing is gonna foul my rudder cables or elevator tube? Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/460+ hrs On Jan 15, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > With the tube going forward it can exert a considerable stress on > the cross > tube. That in turn coulddamage your exterior finish. If the long > tube ever > broke or came free it could possibly foul your rudder cables or > elevator > tube.... Mr. Murphy is alive and well let's not tempt him :-) > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:25 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location > > > Yes I did, Pat. That was one of the few things that my tech advisor > caught me on...I didn't have a support for the "teed" junction, and I > had to get in there from an inspection hole in the bottom of the > fuse, and install one...what a bear! The tubing is so stiff that it > would likely hold itself in place, but he insisted on it. Perhaps > vibration over time could break the tubes, what do I know? > I couldn't find the drawing of the exact placement in my manual, but > I measured my plane and the dimensions are: 5 and 1/8 inches from > the bottom of the lower longeron, and 44 inches forward from the > center of the cross tube back near the tailwheel....I think it's the > only crosstube that is near there that protrudes through the fabric. > This does place the port just in front of the lift handle, but quite > low on the side. Is that where yours is? > > Lynn Matteson > Grass Lake, Michigan > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > flying w/460+ hrs > > > On Jan 15, 2008, at 3:16 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > >> Lynn, THE STATIC PORT WAS ON THE SIDE OF THE FUSALAGE JUST IN FRONT >> OF THE GRAB HANDLE. Looks like I hit the caps lock. Did you join >> the 2 ports, right side and left side with a tee? Pat >> > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:50 PM PST US From: CDE2fly@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Build time? Jorge: I'm nearing the completion of a Model 7 and estimate I have 100 hours left. I purchased the kit from a meticulous builder that had 1200 hours of construction documented when I purchased it. The kit included quick build wings from the factory. The original builder was a retired engineer and I'm sure his primary objective was not finishing as quickly as possible. When I purchased the kit, most of the subassembly work was complete and control linkages were installed. I've logged approximately 1000 hours over the last couple of years completing covering and painting, fully upholstered interior, firewall forward (factory supported 912S installation) and a fairly extensive glass instrument panel. A good portion of work I've done could have been completed in less time with a very functional finished product. My covering has a 4 color aerothane finish with LOTS of masking. Numerous parts have been painted numerous times because I wasn't happy with the first (or second) finish (a run, a bug, some dust, etc.). The instrument panel/electronics is far more extensive than necessary for basic day VFR flight. All of these items take more time then necessary but the beauty of building your own is that you get to balance the time/money decisions to suit your objectives for the airplane and your intended mission(s). The other factor is obviously your level of experience in building airplanes. This is my first though I've spent many years building and flying model airplanes competitively so many of tools and techniques were easily applied to the Kitfox. However, many steps (i.e., rib stitching, panel wiring, and FWF) were a "learn first, do second" process which certainly adds to the hours. All in all, my estimates are as follows: Basic well built airplane; quick build kit, little deviation from plans, experienced builder (completed at least one airplane prior) - 1000 hours Basic well built airplane; quick build kit, little deviation from plans, first time builder - 1500 hours Extensive paint and panel work can easily add a several hundred hours. The good news is that I've thoroughly enjoyed building the Kitfox and we're very fortunate to have the level of factory support that Kitfox Aircraft provides. I've called the factory and chatted countless times and John and Deb and they have ALWAYS been able to provide the part or advice I needed. In the end, I will have acquired new skills, enjoyed many satisfying hours building, met some great people, and have an airplane that is configured exactly the way I want it to be. To me that's what homebuilding is all about. Good luck with your decision. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:42 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Battery Location From: "dave" > At 04:33 PM 1/14/2008, you wrote: > Quote: > My question is, should I move the battery to the back of the firewall, where I see some other 582 engine battery installations? > > You already know the right way. But I'll add that my 582/IV has the battery just behind the firewall and its CG is "too far" aft, which means I can't run 40 pounds in my baggage compartment at full gross without going aft of the rear CG limit. > > > Guy Buchanan Well, according to my manual for my Kitfox IV 1050 it states behind the seat is where battery goes with the 582 and the dash fuel tank. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158466#158466 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:55 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location One can always rely on AC 43.13 2a for specific information, such as static system installations. Go to this FAA link http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/CONTENTS.pdf and then go * CHAPTER 12. AIRCRAFT AVIONICS SYSTEMS SECTION 4. PITOT/STATIC SYSTEM Steve Benesh A&P, IA 84KF "5" \ 912ul * ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:07 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location That should read: AC 43.13 1b not AC 43.13 2a Although...., in AC 43.13-2a you will also find battery installation information http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/e533bb05389c90e486256a54006e47b2/$FILE/Contents.pdf Chapter 10 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:57 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location Correction: The battery installation link has been revised Use the link below to go to the page that includes Chapter 10. On Jan 16, 2008 12:33 AM, 84KF wrote: > That should read: > > AC 43.13 1b not AC 43.13 2a > > Although...., in AC 43.13-2a you will also find battery installation > information > > http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/e533bb05389c90e486256a54006e47b2/$FILE/Chapter%209-13.pdf > > Chapter 10 > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:38 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Location And this link for the Static installation link... AC 43.13 1B, Chapter 12 SECTION 4. PITOT/STATIC SYSTEM http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2012-13.pdf Hey. it's late. Forgive me. I'm trying not to mention anything regarding LSA issues. (Opps.., I did it again!!) Steve Benesh ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:05 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Simply the best engines to use Friends, "Simply the best engine to use" is mine. That's what we all think. Can't we, please, forget our tribal instincts and agree that - even if we are so pleased with what we have - diversity is what we all gain from at the end. Imagine there was only one manufacturer of light aircraft engines. They wouldn't need to bother to stay competitive; price would increase and quality become neglected. Bottom line: Vive la difference! :-) Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 do not archive ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: KITFOX EXPANDS From: "SkySteve" I just read an article in the Jan 11, 2008 issue of GA News (page20) that starts out with, "Kitfox Aircraft has broken ground on a new 5,000 square foot facility at Homedale Airport (S66) in Homedale, Idaho. . . " Sounds like things are growing. That's great news for all. John McBean, can you tell us more about this expansion? [Question] [/b] -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159142#159142 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 45 Msgs - 01/15/08 At 06:09 PM 1/18/2008, you wrote: >I will give it more thought. I have heard of a special brace that >is required to support the front spar while >transporting. Apparently there is a large amount of extra strees on >the aft spar joint when the aircraft is subjected to road motion. I can't remember; are you going long distance? If so you should pull the wings. It's easy and worth the hassle to avoid damage. If short distance ignore me. >Any ideas where I would locate a pair of these? As far as I know you have to make them. It's not very hard. I'll try to put together a photo essay for you this weekend. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:55 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: How much money have you spent? At 11:49 AM 1/18/2008, you wrote: >Just trying to get an idea what I might be in for if I take the plunge. Hah! That one's easy too! It costs twice as much as you think it's going to cost. (Just call me the resident cynic.) Actually, when I used to estimate engineering jobs I did exactly that. I took my best guess then doubled it and was usually pretty close. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:06 PM PST US From: CDE2fly@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: How much money have you spent? I'll have high 50's into my Model 7/912S that's nearly finished. Some of the "extras" for me were as follows (rough numbers): IVO in-flight adjustible prop - $1000 Muffler - $950 External Alternator - $850 Air Intake Plenum - $500 Langing/Taxi Lights - $350 Dash Lights w/Dimmer - $200 Dynon D100 - $2500 Flight Cheetah 210 GPS w/in-flight weather - $3500 EIS Engine Analyzer - $500 EXP DC Load Center - $450 Nav. Radio - $800 Intercom - $300 Transponder - $1300 ELT and various antenna - $400 Paint - $1500 Upolstery - $1000 Full Lexan Turtle Deck - $250 Electric Rudder Trim/Wire Harness - $350 Avionics Wire Harness Prep at shop - $300 Various speed fairings, elevator gap seals - $200 Misc. tools, paint equipment, paint booth construction, paint fixtures, etc. - $1500 **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:43 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: How much money have you spent? Cost is a relative issue If you feel you need to "buy" everything you need, "new", then cost will be high. If you can borrow things, such as covering tools, (pinking shears, paint gun, compressor, filters etc) there is less cost. You will probably only need certain speciality tools for this project.....scrounge and borrow. Many a\c owners have used, but serviceable instruments, misc. hoses, filters, ...all sorts of parts just laying around hanger and home, and not all of these guys want to try to make a profit ....they're happy to see the stuff go into good project. It's not always about money. Get to know a local independent GA A&P... most have a garage full of parts that are serviceable, hardware left over from jobs, all kinds of good stuff, just waiting for a home. You'd be surprised at what they collect, knowing that it will be good for something someday.(A good A&P NEVER throws ANYTHING out.) There is a lot of "stuff" just waiting out there.... make it known what your plans are, and what you might need. Beg, borrow, barter. And just to put the $ where my mouth is ... I have a "small", almost brand new "Earls Performance Products" oil cooler ...free to a honest, needy home. I don't see a P\N , but the dimensions 7" long, 3" high, and 2" deep, w\ 2 brass barbed 90' 1\2" hose fittings ,. I believe it was used on 84KF by the original owner, but swapped it out for a larger on after a few flights. I'll never use it, and it didn't cost me any thing...so it gets passed along to someone in need. That's how it work around this neck of the woods. Steve Benesh 84KF A&P IA "5" 912UL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.