Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues (davyken@comcast.net)
2. 06:12 AM - FW: Aluminum Belly Pan (Rick)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: Flaperons Question for John M. (Dave G.)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (dave)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Lynn Matteson)
6. 07:53 AM - kitfox V for sale ()
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Speedster question? (RAY Gignac)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Speedster question? (Lynn Matteson)
9. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
10. 07:57 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
11. 08:12 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Dan Billingsley)
12. 08:28 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
13. 08:44 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Dee Young)
14. 08:47 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
15. 08:54 AM - Re: Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues (patrick reilly)
16. 08:55 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
17. 09:01 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
18. 09:01 AM - Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues (SkySteve)
19. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
20. 09:56 AM - Financial Report (Guy Buchanan)
21. 10:44 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Lynn Matteson)
22. 10:47 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (john oakley)
23. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Lynn Matteson)
24. 11:53 AM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (darinh)
25. 12:15 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
26. 12:43 PM - Re: How much money have you spent? (vetdrem)
27. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues (Noel Loveys)
28. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Noel Loveys)
29. 01:46 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (84KF)
30. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Zimmermans)
31. 02:22 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (jdmcbean)
32. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues (jdmcbean)
33. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Noel Loveys)
34. 03:37 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Jim Corner)
35. 03:41 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
36. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
37. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (patrick reilly)
38. 04:12 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (dave)
39. 05:45 PM - Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (darinh)
40. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (John Alexander)
41. 06:05 PM - Re: aluminum Belly Pan (Jim Corner)
42. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan (Zimmermans)
43. 07:35 PM - wheel base of classicIV (dwight purdy)
44. 07:53 PM - Re: aluminum Belly Pan (Randy Daughenbaugh)
45. 08:12 PM - Re: aluminum Belly Pan (84KF)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues |
Hi Andy,
Seems I remember someone suggesting a heat gun on a low setting to soften the glue.
If you use the flat sheet of Lexan for the wind screen, you'll want to relieve
some of the stress at the bend with a heat gun anyway.
I went with the LP windshield. It adds a little weight but it's a nice option.
It fit great and it's thicker than the Lexan.
http://www.lpaero.com/
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV - 912
Time: 01:34:07 PM PST US
From: "Andy Fultz" <andynfultz@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues
What, if anything can be used to remove the dried glue of the protective
paper covering on the lexan(?) that was shipped with my kit in 1990? I've
tried a product from ACS called UNMASK with no success. I've even tried
silicon lubricant and no success. Is there anything that can be used
without causing damage? I may just have to replace it. If I do, what
exactly do I need to replace it with. I certainly think I'll go with a
little thicker material. What I have now is 60 thousands. I'm thinking
maybe at least 80 thousands. Some one mentioned a product called PetG from
K-Mac Plastics ? ? ? Thanks guys.
Andy F.
<html><body>
<DIV>Hi Andy,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Seems I remember someone suggesting a heat gun on a low setting to soften
the glue. If you use the flat sheet of Lexan for the wind screen, you'll
want to relieve some of the stress at the bend with a heat gun anyway.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I went with the LP windshield. It adds a little weight but it's a nice
option. It fit great and it's thicker than the Lexan.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.lpaero.com/">http://www.lpaero.com/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ken Davy</DIV>
<DIV>N1701S</DIV>
<DIV>Classic IV - 912</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Time: 01:34:07 PM PST US<BR>From: "Andy Fultz" <<A onclick="return doCompose(this);" href="http://mailcenter2.comcast.net/wmc/v/wm/47933857000054F000004CFC2205886014020A0597900E0B?cmd=ComposeTo&adr=andynfultz%40bellsouth%2Enet&sid=c0">andynfultz@bellsouth.net</A>><BR>Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues<BR><BR>What, if anything can be used to remove the dried glue of the protective<BR>paper covering on the lexan(?) that was shipped with my kit in 1990? I've<BR>tried a product from ACS called UNMASK with no success. I've even tried<BR>silicon lubricant and no success. Is there anything that can be used<BR>without causing damage? I may just have to replace it. If I do, what<BR>exactly do I need to replace it with. I certainly think I'll go with a<BR>little thicker material. What I have now is 60 thousands. I'm thinking<BR>maybe at least 80 thousands. Some one mentioned a product called
PetG
from<BR>K-Mac Plastics ? ? ? Thanks guys.<BR><BR>Andy F.<BR></DIV>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Unless it was to provide attachment/ mounting points it would only need
to be half that thick if that. Most likely it would provide better
resistance to tear or penetration from from rock and debris wash. Unless
you are going to be a serious off field flyer why bother. On the other
hand with some ingenuity a removable panel would allow further
inspection access points.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SUE
MICHAELS
Sent: 2008-01-19 21:26
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
What would be the purpose of a aluminum pan under the cabin and would
you cover it all. I'm at the point of covering now.
----- Original Message ----
From: john oakley <john@leptron.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:44:19 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the
cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would
.025 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperons Question for John M. |
I'm a little confused (it's easy). Are there now three types of flaperons?
1) the original flat bottom ones 2) the symmetrical airfoil type from the
Mod IV and 3) a new type from the Super Sport? If so can the new airfoil
type from the Supersport be retrofitted for repair to the older models?
Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "jdmcbean" <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperons
> <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
>
> With the talk of flaperons thought it may be time for clarification...
>
> The current flaperon is not like the early ones. The early model
> flaperons
> were flat bottom... the current ones are truly an airfoil.. If one was to
> look at a profile of the current ones and the symmetrical ones, one would
> find there is very little difference in airfoil. In comparison, The new
> style have decreased adverse yaw and are really much more stable in level
> flight and still have the sporty feel that the Kitfox is well known for.
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John & Debra McBean
> 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
>
>
> 11:55 AM
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
I think that I would be more concerned about the radiator on the Rotax installs
catching debris than the fabric. And if you want a "skid plate " just use
somthing thin like 016 and ADEL clamps.
when you get done armouring your aircraft get some film of why you need it ,
that would be the best part to see what you are doing to warrant this :)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159360#159360
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
I have a Grove gear, and it seems like there must be a bit of drag on
that, where the air passes between the belly of the plane and the
gear. I have thought of putting a belly pan in that area, using the
screws that hold the bottom portion of the firewall...the horizontal
"flap"...to hold the front of the belly pan. My notion was to remove
the screws, slide the front of the belly pan under the firewall flap,
and screw it back down. then slope the belly pan down under the Grove
gear, and then back up to the fuse. I'd make the whole thing about 2
feet long, and this would streamline, to some extent, the Grove gear.
I haven't worked it all out in my mind yet, but the sides could be
formed up, I'm thinking, to cover the gear attaching brackets, and
fair those in as well. The biggest problem as I see it would be
attaching the rear of the pan to the fuse. Maybe some brackets
epoxied inside the fuse to the crosstubes would work. A belly pan in
this area would ease cleanup in this area as well.
A fellow lister has a Model V, and the builder of that plane actually
did some structural work in that area...Grove gear...to fair in the
belly of the plane, and enclose the gear at that point. Danny, Deke,
or Duane might want to shed some light on this, Danny especially.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/460+ hrs
On Jan 19, 2008, at 11:44 PM, john oakley wrote:
> Pat,
>
> If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the
> cabin.
>
>
> John Oakley
>
> 912 speedster cap
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
>
>
> Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin?
> Would .025 thick add too much weight?
>
>
> Pat Reilly
>
> Mod 3 Rebuild
>
> Rockford, IL
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | kitfox V for sale |
FYI--Saw a Kitfox V listed for sale on controller.com. 94 model V, 450 TT,VFR,
needs engine rebuilt. Located in CA. $17,000.--------Do not archive---Leon Morris/Classic
4/60%/Flower Mound, TX
Message 7
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| Subject: | Speedster question? |
I am looking at the Airspeed Limitations in SKYSTAR AIRCRAFT CORPORATIONS
owners manual and pilots operating handbook, and it says: the Speedsters VN
E is 140mph, VFE is 70mph and VNO is 108mph.
Ray
fox-List: Speedster question?To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Does the speedster have a higher Vne then its standard model of the same mo
del year?
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail=AE-get yo
ur "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Speedster question? |
I'm pretty sure that it did...140mph as I recall. I don't have my
1994 Model IV POH here at home, but that's what I recall. And I think
it was allowable because of the thicker windshield, but don't quote
me. I recall reading about the thinner Lexan windshield flexing, I
think?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/460+ hrs
do not archive
On Jan 20, 2008, at 12:20 AM, SUE MICHAELS wrote:
> Does the speedster have a higher Vne then its standard model of the
> same model year?
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Dave, Thanks for the reply. I am going to "armour" the belly. I will use .0
16 or.020 instead of the .025. It just looks like a natural flat area and t
he weight is minimal. It gives access to the underside if needed. Oatley re
plied that he wished he had installed a removable aluminum belly pan on his
. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Alumi
num Belly Pan> From: dave@cfisher.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:50:36 -080
e" <dave@cfisher.com>> > I think that I would be more concerned about the r
adiator on the Rotax installs catching debris than the fabric. And if you w
ant a "skid plate " just use somthing thin like 016 and ADEL clamps. > > wh
en you get done armouring your aircraft get some film of why you need it ,
that would be the best part to see what you are doing to warrant this :)> >
--------> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info> htt
p://www.cfisher.com/> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums
========================> _
=====================> > >
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Rick, Thanks for the reply. I will use .016 or.020. Oakley says he wished h
e had installed a removable belly pan. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford
,IL
: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly PanTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Unless it was to provide attachment/ mounting points it would only need to
be half that thick if that. Most likely it would provide better resistance
to tear or penetration from from rock and debris wash. Unless you are going
to be a serious off field flyer why bother. On the other hand with some i
ngenuity a removable panel would allow further inspection access points.
Rick
-----Original Message-----From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SUE MICHAELSSent:
2008-01-19 21:26To: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Alum
inum Belly Pan
What would be the purpose of a aluminum pan under the cabin and would you
cover it all. I'm at the point of covering now.
----- Original Message ----From: john oakley <john@leptron.com>To: kitfox-l
ist@matronics.comSent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:44:19 PMSubject: RE: Ki
tfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2
:30 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .02
5 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 11
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
One alternative is to make the firewall / pan in one piece so it wraps underneath. Yes, it is a little more weight than the aluminum...however, it seals the cabin a little better from the engine area. Provides more fire protection. Should the plane ever be skidding along the ground going over brush, snags, etc..would be nice to have that extra protection underneath as well. Mine wraps under and covers the length of the floorboard. http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Engine1.html
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
314DW Covering
john oakley <john@leptron.com> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
---------------------------------
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .025
thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Dan, Thanks for the reply. I will be installing an aluminum belly pan. Pat
Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford,IL
: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly PanTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
One alternative is to make the firewall / pan in one piece so it wraps unde
rneath. Yes, it is a little more weight than the aluminum...however, it sea
ls the cabin a little better from the engine area. Provides more fire prote
ction. Should the plane ever be skidding along the ground going over brush,
snags, etc..would be nice to have that extra protection underneath as well
. Mine wraps under and covers the length of the floorboard. http://www.azsh
owersolutions.com/Engine1.html
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
314DW Coveringjohn oakley <john@leptron.com> wrote:
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2
:30 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .02
5 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
I really like this idea wished I would have thought of it.
Dee
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: patrick reilly<mailto:patreilly43@hotmail.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Dan, Thanks for the reply. I will be installing an aluminum belly pan.
Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford,IL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:09:31 -0800
From: dan@azshowersolutions.com<mailto:dan@azshowersolutions.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
One alternative is to make the firewall / pan in one piece so it
wraps underneath. Yes, it is a little more weight than the
aluminum...however, it seals the cabin a little better from the engine
area. Provides more fire protection. Should the plane ever be skidding
along the ground going over brush, snags, etc..would be nice to have
that extra protection underneath as well. Mine wraps under and covers
the length of the floorboard.
http://www.azshowersolutions.com/Engine1.html<http://www.azshowersolution
s.com/Engine1.html>
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
314DW Covering
john oakley <john@leptron.com> wrote:
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under
the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin?
Would .025 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Lynn, Thanks for reply. I am definitly installing an aluminum belly pan. Wh
at about pop riveting or screwing the pan to the fusalage tubing, similar t
o the screws at the front, at the rear. I am going to mount the front as yo
u mentioned, slide it under the bottom of the firewall. I saw your picture
on the Kitfox factory website, nice looking plane. Pat Reilly Mod 3 rebuil
d Rockford, IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum
Belly Pan> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:31:56 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics
> > I have a Grove gear, and it seems like there must be a bit of drag on >
that, where the air passes between the belly of the plane and the > gear.
I have thought of putting a belly pan in that area, using the > screws that
hold the bottom portion of the firewall...the horizontal > "flap"...to hol
d the front of the belly pan. My notion was to remove > the screws, slide t
he front of the belly pan under the firewall flap, > and screw it back down
. then slope the belly pan down under the Grove > gear, and then back up to
the fuse. I'd make the whole thing about 2 > feet long, and this would str
eamline, to some extent, the Grove gear. > I haven't worked it all out in m
y mind yet, but the sides could be > formed up, I'm thinking, to cover the
gear attaching brackets, and > fair those in as well. The biggest problem a
s I see it would be > attaching the rear of the pan to the fuse. Maybe some
brackets > epoxied inside the fuse to the crosstubes would work. A belly p
an in > this area would ease cleanup in this area as well.> > A fellow list
er has a Model V, and the builder of that plane actually > did some structu
ral work in that area...Grove gear...to fair in the > belly of the plane, a
nd enclose the gear at that point. Danny, Deke, > or Duane might want to sh
ed some light on this, Danny especially.> > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Mich
igan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/460+ hrs> > > > On Jan 19
, 2008, at 11:44 PM, john oakley wrote:> > > Pat,> >> > If I had to do it o
ver again, I would put an aluminum pan under the > > cabin.> >> >> >> > Joh
n Oakley> >> > 912 speedster cap> >> >> >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server
@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-server@matronics.com] On Beha
lf Of Pat Reilly> > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM> > To: kitfox-
list@matronics.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan> >> >> >> >
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? > > Would
.025 thick add too much weight?> >> >> >> > Pat Reilly> >> > Mod 3 Rebuild
> >> > Rockford, IL> >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhtt
p:// > > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution> > http:
//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > =========
= _- > > forums.matronics.com_- > > ============
======================= _- >
> contribution_- > > ==================
===================> > >
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues |
Ken, What is LP windshield? I need to replace mine. Pat Reilly Mod3 Rebuil
d Rockford, IL
From: davyken@comcast.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List:
RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen IssuesDate: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:16:53 +0000
Hi Andy,
Seems I remember someone suggesting a heat gun on a low setting to soften t
he glue. If you use the flat sheet of Lexan for the wind screen, you'll wa
nt to relieve some of the stress at the bend with a heat gun anyway.
I went with the LP windshield. It adds a little weight but it's a nice opt
ion. It fit great and it's thicker than the Lexan.
http://www.lpaero.com/
Ken Davy
N1701S
Classic IV - 912
Time: 01:34:07 PM PST USFrom: "Andy Fultz" <andynfultz@bellsouth.net>Subjec
t: Kitfox-List: RE: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen IssuesWhat, if anything can be
used to remove the dried glue of the protectivepaper covering on the lexan
(?) that was shipped with my kit in 1990? I'vetried a product from ACS cal
led UNMASK with no success. I've even triedsilicon lubricant and no succes
s. Is there anything that can be usedwithout causing damage? I may just h
ave to replace it. If I do, whatexactly do I need to replace it with. I c
ertainly think I'll go with alittle thicker material. What I have now is 6
0 thousands. I'm thinkingmaybe at least 80 thousands. Some one mentioned
a product called PetG fromK-Mac Plastics ? ? ? Thanks guys.Andy F.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
John, The purpose of the aluminum belly pan is to protect that area from pu
ncture by debris in off field landing and allow access by removable belly p
an. No, I will not cover or paint it. I will use a clad aluminum. After the
response to this question, I will definitely use an aluminum, either .020
or .016 clad, belly pan. Pat REilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly PanTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
What would be the purpose of a aluminum pan under the cabin and would you
cover it all. I'm at the point of covering now.
----- Original Message ----From: john oakley <john@leptron.com>To: kitfox-l
ist@matronics.comSent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 8:44:19 PMSubject: RE: Ki
tfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2
:30 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .02
5 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 17
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
John, Thanks for your response. I will fabricate an aluminum belly pan. I w
ill use .020 or.016 clad aluminum. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
From: john@leptron.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List
: Aluminum Belly PanDate: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:44:19 -0700
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2
:30 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .02
5 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues |
Here is the address for LP Plastics
http://www.lpaero.com/
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159392#159392
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Darin, I too plan to do alot of off field flying, although I don't have the
opportunity here in IL you have out there. I will slide the pan under the
bottom of the firewall and rivet or screw it to the fusalage tube the same
way the existing firewall is attached. Why are you adverse to pop riveting
with 3/32 rivets into the fusalage tubing? Are you afraid of weakening the
tube? The bottom of the firewall is attached this way. Pat Reilly Mod 3 R
ebuild Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan> From: ge
rns25@netscape.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:19:18 -0800> To: kitfox-list@
ape.net>> > Pat,> > I seriously considered this mod also but have yet to do
it. Most of my flying will be off unimproved strips in Utah and Idaho and
I think this would be a great mod. The way I would think best to attach the
skins would be to fab up some small brackets to attach to the tubing and t
hen rivet the skins to that. Someone suggested that I simply drill through
the bottom of the tubing and rivet to that but that would not be the best i
dea. I doubt this would add much more than a couple pounds.> > Let us know
how it turns out if you decide to make the mod.> > --------> Darin Hawkes>
Series 7 (under Construction)> 914 Turbo> Kaysville, Utah> > > > > Read thi
s topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15930
-========================
========> > >
Message 20
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| Subject: | Financial Report |
As there was some recent discussion on what it costs to build a
Kitfox, I thought I'd offer this brief financial report on the life
of my Kitfox:
Total Kitfox related expenses: $58,010.62 over the last 42 months and
206 hours, including procurement, fabrication, insurance,
maintenance, storage, fuel, and everything else.
Total Kitfox assets: ~$25,000 Kitfox, ~$4,000 trailer.
Net cost: $29,010.62 total; $8290 / year; $690 / month; $140 / hour.
And this for a "cheap" Kitfox kept in a $100 / month toy box. Note,
however, that much of this cost is associated with fabrication, and
that for last year, a more typical year, it looks like:
Total expenses: $6,540 for 120 hours and 12 months. (Boy my flying
has really fallen off. 10 hours per month, 2.5 per week is pretty lame.)
Cost: $545 / month; $54.50 / hour.
However, the cost of a rebuild must be included at $7.33 per hour for
a total of $61.83 per hour. This works out to about 2.9 times the cost of fuel.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Thanks, Pat.
I get nervous about screwing right into the structural fuselage
tubing. I'd rather epoxy some brackets to the tubing, so that the
"structural integrity" [don't know what that means, but it sounds
important : ) ] isn't compromised/weakened. You could epoxy a pre-
drilled bracket(s) to the tubing, then put a hole right through the
fabric, and this would mount the belly pan.
I would make a question-mark shaped bracket, and drill some holes
into the rounded part of the bracket. When you epoxy the bracket in
place, the epoxy oozes through the holes, and helps hold the bracket
to the tubing. Maybe single-screw brackets, or some wide brackets, so
that a couple of screws could be used in each bracket, cutting down
on the number of brackets needed to be epoxied on.
Hey, I just thought of something...Gardner-Bender of Milwaukee, WI,
makes EZ-Cable Clips in various sizes. I found then at a hardware
store in the electrical department.I have some made from aluminum,
and they'd be almost perfect, if bent to shape. I would use anchor
nuts riveted onto the clips, (before gluing the clips in place) and
then use machine screws to secure the belly pan.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/460+ hrs
On Jan 20, 2008, at 11:38 AM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Thanks for reply. I am definitly installing an aluminum belly
> pan. What about pop riveting or screwing the pan to the fusalage
> tubing, similar to the screws at the front, at the rear. I am going
> to mount the front as you mentioned, slide it under the bottom of
> the firewall. I saw your picture on the Kitfox factory website,
> nice looking plane. Pat Reilly Mod 3 rebuild Rockford, IL
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:31:56 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > I have a Grove gear, and it seems like there must be a bit of
> drag on
> > that, where the air passes between the belly of the plane and the
> > gear. I have thought of putting a belly pan in that area, using the
> > screws that hold the bottom portion of the firewall...the horizontal
> > "flap"...to hold the front of the belly pan. My notion was to remove
> > the screws, slide the front of the belly pan under the firewall
> flap,
> > and screw it back down. then slope the belly pan down under the
> Grove
> > gear, and then back up to the fuse. I'd make the whole thing about 2
> > feet long, and this would streamline, to some extent, the Grove
> gear.
> > I haven't worked it all out in my mind yet, but the sides could be
> > formed up, I'm thinking, to cover the gear attaching brackets, and
> > fair those in as well. The biggest problem as I see it would be
> > attaching the rear of the pan to the fuse. Maybe some brackets
> > epoxied inside the fuse to the crosstubes would work. A belly pan in
> > this area would ease cleanup in this area as well.
> >
> > A fellow lister has a Model V, and the builder of that plane
> actually
> > did some structural work in that area...Grove gear...to fair in the
> > belly of the plane, and enclose the gear at that point. Danny, Deke,
> > or Duane might want to shed some light on this, Danny especially.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/460+ hrs
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 19, 2008, at 11:44 PM, john oakley wrote:
> >
> > > Pat,
> > >
> > > If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under
> the
> > > cabin.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Oakley
> > >
> > > 912 speedster cap
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin?
> > > Would .025 thick add too much weight?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pat Reilly
> > >
> > > Mod 3 Rebuild
> > >
> > > Rockford, IL
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://
> > > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> > > =================================== _-
> > > forums.matronics.com_-
> > > =================================== _-
> > > contribution_-
> > > ===================================>
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 22
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Pat,
I would also build an attachment system so I did not have to get into the
tubes. I used that idea on the entire project. The planes I have worked on
in the past all were affected by drilling and letting in moisture.
John Oakley
Speedster 4 912ul and cap
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
John, Thanks for your response. I will fabricate an aluminum belly pan. I
will use .020 or.016 clad aluminum. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
_____
From: john@leptron.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .025
thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Hi again, Pat-
When I built my IV, I used some sort of Tinnerman fastener and screws
going into, I believe, 6 tabs that are welded to a crosstube. This is
a factory tab, as I recall...getting old is HELL...can't seem to
recall just what the tab situation looks like, and the pictures I
took at that stage of building don't show enough details of this. But
I know that there was some sort of attaching tab already there. I
balked at EVER using sheet metal screws going directly into the
tubing. Maybe the Model III is slightly different.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/460+ hrs
On Jan 20, 2008, at 12:04 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Darin, I too plan to do alot of off field flying, although I don't
> have the opportunity here in IL you have out there. I will slide
> the pan under the bottom of the firewall and rivet or screw it to
> the fusalage tube the same way the existing firewall is attached.
> Why are you adverse to pop riveting with 3/32 rivets into the
> fusalage tubing? Are you afraid of weakening the tube? The bottom
> of the firewall is attached this way. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan
> > From: gerns25@netscape.net
> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:19:18 -0800
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > I seriously considered this mod also but have yet to do it. Most
> of my flying will be off unimproved strips in Utah and Idaho and I
> think this would be a great mod. The way I would think best to
> attach the skins would be to fab up some small brackets to attach
> to the tubing and then rivet the skins to that. Someone suggested
> that I simply drill through the bottom of the tubing and rivet to
> that but that would not be the best idea. I doubt this would add
> much more than a couple pounds.
> >
> > Let us know how it turns out if you decide to make the mod.
> >
> > --------
> > Darin Hawkes
> > Series 7 (under Construction)
> > 914 Turbo
> > Kaysville, Utah
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159305#159305
> >
> &=========
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Pat,
John hit one reason on the head and that is introducing moisture into the chromoly
tubing. Once this steel gets wet, it will rust pretty fast and this will
be corrosion you will never see until it is too late. Another reason is strength.
I am a structural/Civil engineer and anytime you put a hole in something,
you introduce concentrated stress points around the holes. Granted round holes
are better than sharp edges but not hole is better. The tubing along the
bottom of the fuse will see some pretty good loads especially while landing so
I would go for a different attachment method. I would be easy enough to fab
brackets that are glued with Hysol to the structure and then rivet or rivnut (that
way it is removable) to those. The more I talk about this, the easier is
seems like it would be and maybe I will undertake the mod as I am at that point
now.
Dave,
I have seen sticks, rocks and other debris go through fabric many times. The desert
environment of Southern Utah is especially notorious for this. Wheels often
kick up rocks and alot of them are sharp shale and sandstone chips that are
razor sharp.
I think adding the skin is a great idea!
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159416#159416
Message 25
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Lynn, I like the idea of tabs to secure the belly pan. I also like epoxy at
tachment. I could also weld the tabs on. The front cross tube on my Mod 3 h
ad the lower firewall screwed or riveted directly into that tube. It was no
t attached when I got the plane. It just has the holes in the firewall and
tube. What brand of epoxy do you recommend for the clips. The paint would n
eed to be removed in the area where it was epoxied and repainted. At least
I think most epoxies require clean metal for attachment. I didn't plan on f
abric covering that portion of the belly the pan covers. I will see if I ca
n find the metal cable clips you mention. Again Thank You for your advice.
It is invaluable to have the experience available through this Kitfox Thre
ad. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> S
ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:26:1
9 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by
: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>> > Thanks, Pat.> I get nervous about scr
ewing right into the structural fuselage > tubing. I'd rather epoxy some br
ackets to the tubing, so that the > "structural integrity" [don't know what
that means, but it sounds > important : ) ] isn't compromised/weakened. Yo
u could epoxy a pre- > drilled bracket(s) to the tubing, then put a hole ri
ght through the > fabric, and this would mount the belly pan.> I would make
a question-mark shaped bracket, and drill some holes > into the rounded pa
rt of the bracket. When you epoxy the bracket in > place, the epoxy oozes t
hrough the holes, and helps hold the bracket > to the tubing. Maybe single-
screw brackets, or some wide brackets, so > that a couple of screws could b
e used in each bracket, cutting down > on the number of brackets needed to
be epoxied on.> Hey, I just thought of something...Gardner-Bender of Milwau
kee, WI, > makes EZ-Cable Clips in various sizes. I found then at a hardwar
e > store in the electrical department.I have some made from aluminum, > an
d they'd be almost perfect, if bent to shape. I would use anchor > nuts riv
eted onto the clips, (before gluing the clips in place) and > then use mach
ine screws to secure the belly pan.> > > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michiga
n> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/460+ hrs> > > > On Jan 20, 2
008, at 11:38 AM, patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn, Thanks for reply. I am d
efinitly installing an aluminum belly > > pan. What about pop riveting or s
crewing the pan to the fusalage > > tubing, similar to the screws at the fr
ont, at the rear. I am going > > to mount the front as you mentioned, slide
it under the bottom of > > the firewall. I saw your picture on the Kitfox
factory website, > > nice looking plane. Pat Reilly Mod 3 rebuild Rockford,
IL> >> > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Aluminum
Belly Pan> > > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:31:56 -0500> > > To: kitfox-list@m
nnmatt@jps.net>> > >> > > I have a Grove gear, and it seems like there must
be a bit of > > drag on> > > that, where the air passes between the belly
of the plane and the> > > gear. I have thought of putting a belly pan in th
at area, using the> > > screws that hold the bottom portion of the firewall
...the horizontal> > > "flap"...to hold the front of the belly pan. My noti
on was to remove> > > the screws, slide the front of the belly pan under th
e firewall > > flap,> > > and screw it back down. then slope the belly pan
down under the > > Grove> > > gear, and then back up to the fuse. I'd make
the whole thing about 2> > > feet long, and this would streamline, to some
extent, the Grove > > gear.> > > I haven't worked it all out in my mind yet
, but the sides could be> > > formed up, I'm thinking, to cover the gear at
taching brackets, and> > > fair those in as well. The biggest problem as I
see it would be> > > attaching the rear of the pan to the fuse. Maybe some
brackets> > > epoxied inside the fuse to the crosstubes would work. A belly
pan in> > > this area would ease cleanup in this area as well.> > >> > > A
fellow lister has a Model V, and the builder of that plane > > actually> >
> did some structural work in that area...Grove gear...to fair in the> > >
belly of the plane, and enclose the gear at that point. Danny, Deke,> > >
or Duane might want to shed some light on this, Danny especially.> > >> > >
Lynn Matteson> > > Grass Lake, Michigan> > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru
2200> > > flying w/460+ hrs> > >> > >> > >> > > On Jan 19, 2008, at 11:44 P
M, john oakley wrote:> > >> > > > Pat,> > > >> > > > If I had to do it over
again, I would put an aluminum pan under > > the> > > > cabin.> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > John Oakley> > > >> > > > 912 speedster cap> > > >> > > >>
> > >> > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-ki
tfox-> > > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly> > > > Sent
: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin?> > > > Wo
uld .025 thick add too much weight?> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Pat Reilly>
> > >> > > > Mod 3 Rebuild> > > >> > > > Rockford, IL> > > >> > > > http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://> > > > forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Kitfox-List_-> > > > ================
=================== _-> > > > forums.
matronics.com_-> > > > =================
================== _-> > > > contributi
on_-> > > > =====================
==============>> > >> > >> > http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > =============
====================== _- > > f
orums.matronics.com_- > > ================
=================== _- > > contributi
on_- > > ======================
========================> _
===============> > >
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: How much money have you spent? |
Steve, I have been looking for an oil cooler, and sure could use yours. I have
a model 3 with a 912, but the builder didn't install one, and I have been concerned
about it. My oil temps haven't gone over max, but have come close.
Please give me a call at (989)387-4662
Louie
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159419#159419
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues |
Anybody try WD40??? It penetrates cold, won't damage plastic and you can
use it to clean the glass at the same time.
I had some old plexiglass pieces my father had since the mid sixties... WD40
did the trick on removing the paper.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 9:42 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues
Andy- I would try soap and hot water first. Keep it wet fora period of time
? >> Throw in hot tub overnight ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159298#159298
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Especially considering the mud hopping you've shown us! I always thought it
was the under side of the wings that you had to be careful hot to hit with
mud coming off the wheels.
Noel
when you get done armouring your aircraft get some film of why you need
it , that would be the best part to see what you are doing to warrant this
:)
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Vintage Pipers, J-3's, 4's, PA-15's,17's, 20's, 22's, etc. have small,
drilled tabs welded to the tubing with clip-on tinnermans to attach a
aluminum belly pan. It works perfect and has for 70 years
A 2007 $125,000.00 CubCrafter has small holes drilled right into the tubing
and the pan is attached with a zillion #4 PK screws. I don't care to think
about what the holes will look like in a few years after the pan has been
removed for each inspection and general maintenance, No doubt all augured
out and oversized with an assortment of #4's, #6's, and in time #8, I'm
concerned also about what was mentioned about future internal corrosion
because of the holes compromising the tubing interior
No doubt CubCrafters does this for labor cost savings and simplicity, but it
sucks.
Steve Benesh
A&P, IA
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
A friend is building a series 5 and so am I. His kit came with an
aluminum extrusion to use to cut out clips to attach the aluminum pan
under the rudder pedals. He had me cut them for him and here is a
picture of the extra one. This is the second plane that I have seen use
them. They get epoxied to the tubes, then either a rivet or screw holds
the aluminum pan.
Jim Z
Series 5 0-200
Covering.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
Has anyone thought about maybe using heavy fabric on the bottom instead of
the aluminum ?? Just a thought.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
John, Thanks for your response. I will fabricate an aluminum belly pan. I
will use .020 or.016 clad aluminum. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
_____
From: john@leptron.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .025
thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
2:15 PM
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues |
We are also a LP distributor...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: [avid_flyer] Wind Screen Issues
Here is the address for LP Plastics
http://www.lpaero.com/
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159392#159392
2:15 PM
2:15 PM
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Lynn:
The only time I ever heard of any one intentionally putting a hole in a tube
frame is when they are inhibiting the interior of the tube. Other than that
tabs would always be welded to the exterior before the frame was inhibited.
The inhibiting process includes drilling two small holes in the upper and
lower corners of the frame. Inserting about a quart (depending on the size
of the frame) of double-boiled linseed oil into one of the holes ( a hypo
works well) and then sealing the holes with PK self tapping screws. For the
next few days hang the frame and turn it in every direction and let it sit
for a couple of hours to ensure the oil flowed to every part of the interior
of the frame. Then after about a week of this turning you would turn it so
one of the holes was at the low point, remove both screws and drain out the
excess linseed oil. This can take overnight. Re-seal the holes with the
screws. For obvious reasons never drill the holes into joints (welds) and
always drill into the inside of the frame not the outside where the cloth
lies. This form of interior rust control has been protecting tube frame
aircraft for almost a century. Only down side to this process is if you mop
the linseed oil up with a rag you have to be very careful the rag won't
spontaneously combust. Rags wet with linseed oil should be immediately
stored in a fireproof container or used to start the fireplace. I've seen a
wet rag combust in as little as fifteen minutes and fill a hangar with
white, cough, cough, smoke.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan
Hi again, Pat-
When I built my IV, I used some sort of Tinnerman fastener and screws
going into, I believe, 6 tabs that are welded to a crosstube. This is
a factory tab, as I recall...getting old is HELL...can't seem to
recall just what the tab situation looks like, and the pictures I
took at that stage of building don't show enough details of this. But
I know that there was some sort of attaching tab already there. I
balked at EVER using sheet metal screws going directly into the
tubing. Maybe the Model III is slightly different.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/460+ hrs
On Jan 20, 2008, at 12:04 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Darin, I too plan to do alot of off field flying, although I don't
> have the opportunity here in IL you have out there. I will slide
> the pan under the bottom of the firewall and rivet or screw it to
> the fusalage tube the same way the existing firewall is attached.
> Why are you adverse to pop riveting with 3/32 rivets into the
> fusalage tubing? Are you afraid of weakening the tube? The bottom
> of the firewall is attached this way. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan
> > From: gerns25@netscape.net
> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:19:18 -0800
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Pat,
> >
> > I seriously considered this mod also but have yet to do it. Most
> of my flying will be off unimproved strips in Utah and Idaho and I
> think this would be a great mod. The way I would think best to
> attach the skins would be to fab up some small brackets to attach
> to the tubing and then rivet the skins to that. Someone suggested
> that I simply drill through the bottom of the tubing and rivet to
> that but that would not be the best idea. I doubt this would add
> much more than a couple pounds.
> >
> > Let us know how it turns out if you decide to make the mod.
> >
> > --------
> > Darin Hawkes
> > Series 7 (under Construction)
> > 914 Turbo
> > Kaysville, Utah
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159305#159305
> >
> &=========
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Message 35
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| Subject: | Aluminum Belly Pan |
John, Thought about heavy fabric on belly, but doesn't give accessability.
Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
From: jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE:
Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly PanDate: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:19:22 -0700
Has anyone thought about maybe using heavy fabric on the bottom instead of
the aluminum ?? Just a thought.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"
-----Original Message-----From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mai
lto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of patrick reillySent:
Sunday, January 20, 2008 9:56 AMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE:
Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
John, Thanks for your response. I will fabricate an aluminum belly pan. I w
ill use .020 or.016 clad aluminum. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL
From: john@leptron.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List
: Aluminum Belly PanDate: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:44:19 -0700
Pat,
If I had to do it over again, I would put an aluminum pan under the cabin.
John Oakley
912 speedster cap
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2
:30 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Aluminum Belly Pan
Kitfoxers, has anybody put an aluminum belly pan under the cabin? Would .02
5 thick add too much weight?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http:/
/www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listp://forums.matronics.comblank>http:
//www.matronics.com/contribution - The Kitfox-List Email Forum
- --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List - MATR
ONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Con
tribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Jim, Thanks for the picture. I will fabricate some of those clips. What bra
nd epoxy do you recommend? Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, iL
From: jezim@pro-ns.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List
: Re: Aluminum Belly PanDate: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:34:14 -0600
A friend is building a series 5 and so am I. His kit came with an aluminum
extrusion to use to cut out clips to attach the aluminum pan under the rudd
er pedals. He had me cut them for him and here is a picture of the extra on
e. This is the second plane that I have seen use them. They get epoxied to
the tubes, then either a rivet or screw holds the aluminum pan.
Jim Z
Series 5 0-200
Covering.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Darin, Yes I don't think putting an aluminum belly pan on would be difficul
t. Looks easier than fabric covering. Thanks for the reference to Hysol epo
xy. I didn't know what brand to use. I think a 2 piece belly pan would be e
asiest. Front one from firewall 1/2 way back, then another slipped under th
e front one to cover the last 2 feet. Removed, it would facilitate easier b
ungee access also. .020 Alcad aluminum would weigh 3 1/2 pounds and cost $5
0. It seems like a no brainer to me.
Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum
Belly Pan> From: gerns25@netscape.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:50:40 -08
rinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>> > Pat,> > John hit one reason on the head and
that is introducing moisture into the chromoly tubing. Once this steel get
s wet, it will rust pretty fast and this will be corrosion you will never s
ee until it is too late. Another reason is strength. I am a structural/Civi
l engineer and anytime you put a hole in something, you introduce concentra
ted stress points around the holes. Granted round holes are better than sha
rp edges but not hole is better. The tubing along the bottom of the fuse wi
ll see some pretty good loads especially while landing so I would go for a
different attachment method. I would be easy enough to fab brackets that ar
e glued with Hysol to the structure and then rivet or rivnut (that way it i
s removable) to those. The more I talk about this, the easier is seems like
it would be and maybe I will undertake the mod as I am at that point now.
> > Dave,> > I have seen sticks, rocks and other debris go through fabric m
any times. The desert environment of Southern Utah is especially notorious
for this. Wheels often kick up rocks and alot of them are sharp shale and s
andstone chips that are razor sharp.> > I think adding the skin is a great
idea!> > --------> Darin Hawkes> Series 7 (under Construction)> 914 Turbo>
Kaysville, Utah> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matr
===================> > >
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
> I think that I would be more concerned about the radiator on the Rotax installs
catching debris than the fabric. And if you want a "skid plate " just use somthing
thin like 016 and ADEL clamps.
>
> when you get done armouring your aircraft get some film of why you need it ,
that would be the best part to see what you are doing to warrant this
>
John and Darin covered the most important points with regard to the 4130 tubing.
Whats about the radiator ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159461#159461
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Pat,
The Hysol you want is 9460 and is available from John. Like you said, it is best
to adhere to bare metal that has been cleaned and prepped for adhesive.
Dave,
I don't have to worry about the radiator as on the 7 it is inside the cowl...on
my Model 3 it was under the cabin and I had it in the radiator fairing. I had
a bunch of chips out of the fiberglass fairing but luckily never had anything
get inside and puncture it.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (under Construction)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=159471#159471
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
I've been following this thread with interest. I see any number of uses for tabs
like that from belly pans to mounts for an autopilot. Where can such aluminum
extrusion be found?
John Alexander
Woodland, CA
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:34:14 -0600, Zimmermans wrote
> A friend is building a series 5 and so am I. His kit came with an aluminum extrusion
to use to cut out clips to attach the aluminum pan under the rudder pedals.
He had me cut them for him and here is a picture of the extra one. This
is the second plane that I have seen use them. They get epoxied to the tubes,
then either a rivet or screw holds the aluminum pan.
> Jim Z
> Series 5 0-200
> Covering.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: aluminum Belly Pan |
On 20-Jan-08, at 8:31 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
I have a Grove gear, and it seems like there must be a bit of drag on
that, where the air passes between the belly of the plane and the
gear. I have thought of putting a belly pan in that area, using the
screws that hold the bottom portion of the firewall...the horizontal
"flap"...to hold the front of the belly pan. My notion was to remove
the screws, slide the front of the belly pan under the firewall flap,
and screw it back down. then slope the belly pan down under the Grove
gear, and then back up to the fuse. I'd make the whole thing about 2
feet long, and this would streamline, to some extent, the Grove gear.
I haven't worked it all out in my mind yet, but the sides could be
formed up, I'm thinking, to cover the gear attaching brackets, and
fair those in as well. The biggest problem as I see it would be
attaching the rear of the pan to the fuse. Maybe some brackets
epoxied inside the fuse to the crosstubes would work. A belly pan in
this area would ease cleanup in this area as well.
A fellow lister has a Model V, and the builder of that plane actually
did some structural work in that area...Grove gear...to fair in the
belly of the plane, and enclose the gear at that point. Danny, Deke,
or Duane might want to shed some light on this, Danny especially.
Lynn
Just happens that I had the same thought as you that the Grove gear
area would create an area of -extra drag between the gear and the
belly. - I just finished fabricating a small belly pan which will be
attached at the front under the firewall flap using screws into a 1/2
x 3/4 wood cross brace which is in turn held to the fuse by screws
through the floorboards. -(i.e. -no holes in tubing.)
At the rear I have drilled and tapped a couple of holes into the
round aluminum gear retainers and then attached an aluminum angle
across the width of the fuselage. -The bottom of the angle is flush
with the bottom of the Grove gear. --
A couple of small photos attached.
Jim Corner
Model 2, 582,. Ivo med !FA, 1100 hrs
Model 5 under construction
Calgary, AB
IMGP2702.JPG
IMGP2703.JPG
IMGP2704.JPG
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum Belly Pan |
Hysol 9460 John Mcbean has it.
----- Original Message -----
From: patrick reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:42 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan
Jim, Thanks for the picture. I will fabricate some of those clips.
What brand epoxy do you recommend? Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford,
iL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: jezim@pro-ns.net
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Aluminum Belly Pan
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:34:14 -0600
A friend is building a series 5 and so am I. His kit came with an
aluminum extrusion to use to cut out clips to attach the aluminum pan
under the rudder pedals. He had me cut them for him and here is a
picture of the extra one. This is the second plane that I have seen use
them. They get epoxied to the tubes, then either a rivet or screw holds
the aluminum pan.
Jim Z
Series 5 0-200
Covering.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/19/2008 6:37 PM
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | wheel base of classicIV |
I need a quick answer. I need to pick up a model IV with the original
tubular gear legs. Will it fit my model II tailor ? My wheels are snug fit
in trapped pockets.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
--
Message 44
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| Subject: | aluminum Belly Pan |
Hey guys,
Don't for get that the grove gear moves below the center of the cockpit.
The center moves down as the wheels flex up. Just be sure to design for
it if you are fairing it in. I like the access that a removable pan would
allow. I have had no problems (yet!) with holes from sticks or stones.
Randy
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Corner
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: aluminum Belly Pan
On 20-Jan-08, at 8:31 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
I have a Grove gear,
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: aluminum Belly Pan |
On Jan 20, 2008 10:52 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com> wrote:
> rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
>
> Hey guys,
> Don't for get that the grove gear moves below the center of the cockpit.
> The center moves down as the wheels flex up. Just be sure to design for
> it if you are fairing it in. I like the access that a removable pan would
> allow. I have had no problems (yet!) with holes from sticks or stones.
>
> Randy
-------------
--------------------------------------
Go here for a video demo of what Randy is speaking of....
http://www.groveaircraft.com/drptst.html
Here is Grove's site a w\picture of flex.
> http://www.groveaircraft.com/droptest.html#
>
> .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Corner
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:03 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: aluminum Belly Pan
>
> On 20-Jan-08, at 8:31 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I have a Grove gear,
>
>
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