---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/18/08: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:49 AM - Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (JC Propeller Design) 2. 02:54 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Dave G.) 3. 04:19 AM - Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (fox5flyer) 4. 06:04 AM - Re: Battery Re-Location? (Dee Young) 5. 06:18 AM - Re: cracks in wing tank sealant(could be titled wing structure._ (Tom Jones) 6. 08:02 AM - Re: TUNDRA TIRES & WHEELS FOR SALE (Don McIntosh) 7. 08:29 AM - Re: cracks in wing tank sealant (jdmcbean) 8. 08:41 AM - Re: Battery Re-Location? (Noel Loveys) 9. 09:39 AM - Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (Guy Buchanan) 10. 09:39 AM - Re: TUNDRA TIRES & WHEELS FOR SALE (SkySteve) 11. 09:46 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Lynn Matteson) 12. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: horizontal stabilizer (Lynn Matteson) 13. 09:56 AM - Strobe/position lights () 14. 10:15 AM - Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (dave) 15. 10:19 AM - Re: Door Latching you really Like? (Lynn Matteson) 16. 10:40 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer () 17. 11:01 AM - Re: Door Latching you really Like? (dave) 18. 11:39 AM - About flying...off topic? (Lynn Matteson) 19. 11:46 AM - Re: Strobe/position lights (SUE MICHAELS) 20. 12:11 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Tom Jones) 21. 12:13 PM - Re: Strobe/position lights (jdmcbean) 22. 12:14 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Clint Bazzill) 23. 12:47 PM - Re: Strobe/position lights (dcsfoto) 24. 01:39 PM - Re: Door Latching you really Like? (Clint Bazzill) 25. 02:39 PM - Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (JC Propeller Design) 26. 02:42 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (paul wilson) 27. 03:04 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Mike Chaney) 28. 05:48 PM - Door Latch Pictures (Guy Buchanan) 29. 05:49 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV speed Range (Guy Buchanan) 30. 06:28 PM - Re: Door Latch Pictures (Steve Shinabery) 31. 06:32 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer (Lynn Matteson) 32. 06:50 PM - Re: Door Latch Pictures (jeff puls) 33. 07:52 PM - Re: Re: Door Latching you really Like? (Guy Buchanan) 34. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Door Latch Pictures (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:52 AM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range Lee, going from 80 to 100 hp will gain 7,7 % top speed, but the climb will be a lot better. If you have a sport license your plane isn't allowed to have in air adjustable prop. Fairings gain more speed and reduce fuel burn at cruise, (getting there faster or flying with less power at same speed) Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "bigboyzt0yz" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range > > I was thinking about changing my 70 hour 912UL for a 912ULS so that it has > a greater top speed cruise. I was wondering is it better to ad all the > fairings to the struts and rods on the whole plane? Along with Wheel pants > and Spring gear to clean it up a bit. Or do I keep the same motor and add > a in flight adjustable unit to the current prop drive. What is the > expected flight speed for the plane in general? I know the Vne is listed > at 140 Knots and with a Sport Pilot ticket you are not supposed to fly > over 120 knots. so is there a limit to how fast that air foil shape is > expected to go. My plane is 675 Lbs and has a 80 hp so where is the brick > wall for how far you can really go? (The 701 kinda maxes out at 85 MPH > with the tall airfoil) I do like flying slower looking at all the sights > below, but some times you just want to get there sooner and so far this > plane will do both pretty well. Along with being able to get into some > pretty short fields. > I will be flying (next year after we build the plane together) with a > friend that has a Sonex on order and is going to put in a Jab. 3300 in it. > Or just tell him to deal with the fact that he will have to just fly > slower or leave later. > > -------- > Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive > prop/100% Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane > since Aug 07 "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the > sky". > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164762#164762 > > > __________ NOD32 2838 (20080131) Information __________ > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:11 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer I've never seen the arrangement you're using, but have you tried placing one strut below the tab and one above it? Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer > > At 05:58 PM 2/16/2008, you wrote: >>I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but I would think the >>flattened areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab. > > Two possibilities: > > 1. Bend the outboard edges of the fuselage tab up to conform to the struts > using a crescent wrench. > > 2. Grind the fuselage tab back. You only require one full hole diameter of > metal outside the hole for full strength. (Probably 3/16") > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:35 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range Lee, the basic rule of thumb is more power will give you better climb, but usually not much difference in speed. To get more speed you need to reduce drag. Reducing drag is a lot cheaper both up front and in the long run. It usually has no effect on slow flight or stall characteristics, but increases speed and reduces fuel per mile traveled. Your gph stays the same, but enroute air time is reduced. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "bigboyzt0yz" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 2:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range > > I was thinking about changing my 70 hour 912UL for a 912ULS so that it has > a greater top speed cruise. I was wondering is it better to ad all the > fairings to the struts and rods on the whole plane? Along with Wheel pants > and Spring gear to clean it up a bit. Or do I keep the same motor and add > a in flight adjustable unit to the current prop drive. What is the > expected flight speed for the plane in general? I know the Vne is listed > at 140 Knots and with a Sport Pilot ticket you are not supposed to fly > over 120 knots. so is there a limit to how fast that air foil shape is > expected to go. My plane is 675 Lbs and has a 80 hp so where is the brick > wall for how far you can really go? (The 701 kinda maxes out at 85 MPH > with the tall airfoil) I do like flying slower looking at all the sights > below, but some times you just want to get there sooner and so far this > plane will do both pretty well. Along with being able to get into some > pretty short fields. > I will be flying (next year after we build the plane together) with a > friend that has a Sonex on order and is going to put in a Jab. 3300 in it. > Or just tell him to deal with the fact that he will have to just fly > slower or leave later. > > -------- > Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive > prop/100% Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane > since Aug 07 "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the > sky". > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164762#164762 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:04 AM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Battery Re-Location? Ray, I installed my battery behind the seat. It sets between the cross braces and is held in place by adel clamps. Works very well. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: RAY Gignac To: kitfox-list Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 9:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery Re-Location? Has anyone on the list relocated the battery from the firewall to behind the rear passenger seat? I was trying to install a larger battery but the current plastic box will not allow for a larger battery. I have a sealed battery and was thinking of placing on a tray behind the seat and held in place with a steel band! I have a Model IV 1200. Ray Lee I know your lurking on the list right now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:43 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: cracks in wing tank sealant(could be titled wing structure._ From: "Tom Jones" A kitfox wing without a fuel tank has a drag tube installed in those rib bays. It is logical to figure that the wing tank provides that structure element at least. I am not an engineer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night but I have built Kitfox wings both with and without fuel tanks. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164782#164782 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:47 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TUNDRA TIRES & WHEELS FOR SALE From: "Don McIntosh" Steve, I am interested in this set of tires if you still have them. I have some questions so contact me offlist. I tried emailing you direct last week, but no response. -------- Don McIntosh Kitfox Series 7 under construction Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164795#164795 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:45 AM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: cracks in wing tank sealant The original Kitfox Wing had a drag/anti braces where the tank is. When looking at the instructions you would find that if one was to retrofit a early model IV wing with a wing tank that the drag braces need to be re-positioned.. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cracks in wing tank sealant > I'd be the last one to comment intelligently about the wing/tank > structural element, but it sounds like maybe if you left enough of > the lip around the fiberglas tank that it might work, provided that > you got a good bond with the plywood. Wait a minute though....there > are baffles inside the f'glas tank that attach to the tank top, and > I'm sure that these would have to go if you were to cut the tank top > off. I'm pretty sure that these baffles add a bunch of structural > strength to the tank, and resist the flexing or twisting of the wing. > I'm no engineer, but I think if the original tank plays the important > role in wing construction that I've read here, maybe just adding the > plywood...even the best aircraft grade...wouldn't be enough. But if > you could tie the plywood into the baffles somehow, then maybe.... Good points Lynn. All this talk has reminded me of old--some of them very old--discussions regarding the wing tanks being structural. The question in my mind was then, and still is, "Are the wing tanks required for structural integrity or do the wing tanks become a part of the structure when they're installed?" In my mind it would be the latter. The wing tanks were not initially part of Kitfox wings. They evolved from the (1) panel tank to a (2) panel tank and six gallon aluminum tank on one side to a (3) to a six gallon aluminum tank on each side to the (4) 12 gallon glass tanks that we now have. As I recall there are some out there with a 6 on one side and a 12 on the other. Installing the new poly tanks inside the existing tanks shouldn't be any problem nor, IMO, would it require any additional bracing other than the recommended sheet of plywood on top for protection. Personally, I agree with what Lynn said. Clean them up, reslosh if you must, then run 100LL if worried about the Ethanol. You can run a lot of that stuff through there for the money it would cost to replace the tanks. Another thing is that the ethanol can be diluted by going 50/50 with Ethanol auto gas and 100LL. Another note. The sloshing was applied not to protect the tanks against chemicals, but to fill in and seal the tiny pin holes in the tanks from the fiberglass weave that caused fuel to wick/seep through the fibers creating a smelly tank. This was all done before Ethanol was a factor. As for whether Kreem is a good product or not, be sure to get your facts before you pass on anecdotal evidence gleaned over the The mighty internet. I always approach anything I read on the net with a healthy dose of skepticism. Kreem has been around a long time and it is used in many types of tanks, not just aircraft. When all of this started, other than Randolph, Kreem was about all we had. Now there are other options of course, which is a good thing. So, before you make a decision on what course of action you take, if any, I suggest you do some research. This Ethanol stuff is still evolving and products will keep emerging as the evolution takes place. FWI W... Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert 5:50 AM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:57 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Battery Re-Location? Sounds like a good idea... Use cushion (Adel) clamps to attach your tray to the frame. Don't forget to do an amendment to your W&B Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAY Gignac Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 1:24 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Battery Re-Location? Has anyone on the list relocated the battery from the firewall to behind the rear passenger seat? I was trying to install a larger battery but the current plastic box will not allow for a larger battery. I have a sealed battery and was thinking of placing on a tray behind the seat and held in place with a steel band! I have a Model IV 1200. Ray Lee I know your lurking on the list right now! _____ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:56 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range At 11:29 PM 2/17/2008, you wrote: > I will be flying (next year after we build the plane together) > with a friend that has a Sonex on order and is going to put in a > Jab. 3300 in it. Or just tell him to deal with the fact that he > will have to just fly slower or leave later. This subject is currently being intensely discussed on the Lancair list. In general: 1. Speed varies with the cube root of power. E.g. double the power, get 26% more speed, or in the linear realm, to increase speed 1%, increase power 3%. 2. Speed varies with the square root of the drag. E.g. half the drag gives 41% more speed, or in the linear realm, to increase speed 1%, decrease drag 2%. 3. Perhaps Jan can chime in with a way of quantifying the value of a variable pitch prop, but the way I look at it is that you get to cruise at max speed, but at a lower RPM. In other words, if I fly my fixed pitch at 5800 rpm at a certain speed, then I'll be able to do the same speed at 5000 rpm with a variable pitch prop. The bottom line being that you probably get the most bang for the buck with #2, drag decreases, followed by #3, the prop, (assuming you're not Light Sport,) followed by #1, horsepower increases. As for bang for the effort, switching to a variable pitch prop is probably the easiest, followed by swapping to the S, followed by drag reductions. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:58 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TUNDRA TIRES & WHEELS FOR SALE From: "SkySteve" Don, Sorry to hear you did not get a reply. I received several emails from people wanting the tires/wheels. They were gone within 5 minutes of my original post. I thought I had responded to all other emails telling them of the sale. Sorry you were missed, it was unintentional. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164819#164819 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:14 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer Mike- I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft Spruce calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was the one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for the #10 mounting bolt. I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts, and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection. I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where it attaches to the fuselage tab. I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab and one below. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/475+ hrs On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > Lynn > > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested that > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube. > > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple. > > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me? > > Mike Chaney > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one > left side and one right side. ...... > > Lynn Matteson > Grass Lake, Michigan > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > flying w/470+ hrs > > > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better > friend, newshound, and _- > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:41 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: horizontal stabilizer Nice picture, Tom...it looks like you had to lower your horizontal stab, eh? (I've got the same "extra" holes in my fairing too.) : ) Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/475+ hrs do not archive On Feb 17, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Tom Jones wrote: > > >> I attached the rod ends to the horizontal stabilizer but when I >> tried to attach the struts to the fuseledge tab the rounded >> portions of the struts touched preventing the flattened areas to >> go together. I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but >> I would think the flattened areas of the struts should go together >> and touch the tab. >> >> Any suggestions? > > > Mike, the front strut goes on top of the fuselage tab and the > bottom strut goes on the bottom of the fuselage tab. Mine do not > touch each other but if they did I would install washer(s) for > clearance. You may need to use a longer bolt if you need the extra > washers. > > Also, the single piece V struts were the original struts. The > modifications are the Two piece for each side (4 total) with two > rod ends on each side for the outboard ends (front and rear). > > Picture of inboard ends attached. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV, Phase one > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164636#164636 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/horizontal_stab_strut_160.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:03 AM PST US From: Subject: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights Just looking for some feedback on the Magnum Strobe Systems,either the dual or triple systems that Kuntzleman Electronics Inc. sells. They are the cheapest ones I have seen ($228). Has anyone installed them? How do they look and do the have the hardware to install the on curved wing tips?---- Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/engine undecided/Flower Mound,TX ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV speed Range From: "dave" Kitfox is a high drag airplane. In flight prop might help a small amount but if you go coarser to a lower rpm like you stated. 5800 to 5000 - i can tell you that your power curve drops off quickly below 5800 rpm with your stock exhaust. Plus with the Skystar exhaust mod which cost all 582 drivers about 5 hp. So if you are cruising at 5800 rpm at 90 mph and drop to 5000 with a courser pitch , I think will will not have enough power and will likely slow down and see lower EGTs as you lug your engine down. 582 likes to run 5800 to 6000 rpm with the stock exhaust. I can tell you that with my last few tuned pipes I have made that I am getting a few more HP and better performance with less rpms giving the same numbers as I was getting with stock setup. eg now at 5600 same as I was doing at 6000 rpm + approx I have a new Inflight prop here GSC with WARP blades that I will try in the spring unless it sells before. List is about 2200.00 http://www.hoverhawk.com/gtaprop.html this one has nickel leading edges ( 240$ option) . I will let it go for 1800$ plus shipping right now. > if I fly my > fixed pitch at 5800 rpm at a certain speed, then I'll be able to do > the same speed at 5000 rpm with a variable pitch prop. > -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164833#164833 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:18 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you really Like? I've heard of occasions where the door blew open due to flex...Michel in Norway comes to mind, but I may be wrong. I may be all wet, but wasn't the double-pin door latch utilized on the Speedster for exactly that reason? When I ran into turbulence in Tennessee last year, that last thing I needed was to have the doors open. If you think of the distance between the door hinges and a bottom-of-door latch, and think of the flex that might occur in the aluminum-framed door (mine, anyway) I feel a lot safer with a mid-door (vertically speaking) latch. Perhaps the later models with their square-tubing doors (they are, aren't they?) are built stronger and don't require this almost bullet- proof latch. Sometimes in building, extra weight IS needed. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/475+ hrs On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote: > What is wrong with the single nylon wing vent type on bottom of > door. Simple, easy and full proof and perfect fit, fast and > cheap. Clint > > Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:07:28 -0800 > From: bigboyzt0yz@yahoo.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you really Like? > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > OK Group, > > Yes I have posted a lot because there is no sense in re inventing > the wheel, there are so great Kitfox minds to pull from on the > list. So what is the VERY best way to make, build, adapt some type > of latching unit for the doors? I saw a really cool setup on a > helicopter it has pins that came out and was operated from a > central turning latch doohickey. > I am getting ready to install some bubble doors and was looking > for some kind of latching unit that is going to keep the door in > place and sealed tight. > > I am thinking of building the door frames either from scratch or by > altering a set that some one might have and wants to part with > reasonably. > > I could Tig, Machine, ETC. something together that would not be any > problem so there is no limit to your creativity. > > Thanks to All > Lee > > > Keep your feet on the peddels and keep reaching for the sky!!!! > > Lee > > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listp:// > forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution_- > ============================================================ _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer You may have a defective strut that happened in the manufacturing process. I had one that was too short. Called the factory and they sent me a replacement. My struts are installed one above and one below the tab.---Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/Flower Mound,TX ---- "Dave G." wrote: > > I've never seen the arrangement you're using, but have you tried placing one > strut below the tab and one above it? > > Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582 > do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Guy Buchanan" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 2:57 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer > > > > > > At 05:58 PM 2/16/2008, you wrote: > >>I suppose I could add washers to fix this problem but I would think the > >>flattened areas of the struts should go together and touch the tab. > > > > Two possibilities: > > > > 1. Bend the outboard edges of the fuselage tab up to conform to the struts > > using a crescent wrench. > > > > 2. Grind the fuselage tab back. You only require one full hole diameter of > > metal outside the hole for full strength. (Probably 3/16") > > > > > > Guy Buchanan > > San Diego, CA > > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Door Latching you really Like? From: "dave" > I've heard of occasions where the door blew open due to flex... sure wakes you up :) -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164840#164840 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:25 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: About flying...off topic? I got a great flying tip from my flight instructor on Saturday. I was flying him down to Benton Harbor (BEH) to pick up a plane he had to deliver. We got out of his snow-covered turf field (and mine) with no problem, and made it to BEH, but when coming in for landing, he showed me something I hadn't thought of, He took control and first let one wheel (wheel skis) touch, then the other, then gave the plane back to me and I landed it. It makes sense to do this when using skis or even when just using wheels in slushy snow or whenever the pilot thinks there might be frozen wheels, brakes, etc. As he pointed out, if a wheel/brake WAS frozen, we would have gone to a nearby turf field or lake and landed using the skis, then freed up the problem, then gone back to the paved field. With 9" of snow locally...until the rain took it out yesterday...a frozen wheel/brake stands a good chance of happening. This might be old news to old-time pilots, but it was just another lesson learned to this rookie. : ) Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/475+ hrs do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:48 AM PST US From: SUE MICHAELS Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights If your wanting wing tip strobes with position lights combo unit you are looking at the wrong price. Now your talking $390.00 which opens things up. http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Safety/LED_Position_Lights/led_position_lights.html Sells a unit that I believe is little more streamlined unit with wiring for ten bucks more, but I bet if you call he will match. The strobe bulb and remote strobe box are from a major electronics firm for emergency equipment and lighting so parts should be always available and through other dealers. I just finished blending mine into the wing tips and about ready to prime so if you want pics let me know? George ----- Original Message ---- From: "l.morris@tx.rr.com" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:53:25 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights Just looking for some feedback on the Magnum Strobe Systems,either the dual or triple systems that Kuntzleman Electronics Inc. sells. They are the cheapest ones I have seen ($228). Has anyone installed them? How do they look and do the have the hardware to install the on curved wing tips?---- Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/engine undecided/Flower Mound,TX ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: horizontal stabilizer From: "Tom Jones" For anyone that might be wondering about the modified Horizontal stab lift struts. I should correct my earlier post about them. I actually know of at least three versions. My Kit was delivered in 1994 with the one piece V struts with 3/16 threaded rod on the front outboard end. Skystar soon produced the first mod which was the two piece with 3/16 threaded rod on both outboard ends. Later they suggested going to their third version which is the two piece with 1/4 threaded rod on both outboard ends. For what its worth there were a few builders that had the 3/16 rod ends break. I think all were noticed during preflight and don't know of any that were confirmed to happen in flight. At least two were found when preflighting to leave a fly in. My opinion is someone lifted the airplane by the horizontal stab and broke it or someone even sat on it at the fly in. > it looks like you had to lower your horizontal > stab, eh? (I've got the same "extra" holes in my fairing too.) : ) Lynn, yes I started flight testing with the front bolt of the horizontal stab in the top hole. I was flying with the CG near the foreword limit and it took just a slight one finger back pressure on the stick to fly level. I couldn't trim nose up because pulling a little flaperon trims the nose down. I then moved the front bolt of the Horizontal stab to the middle hole. Now It flys level hands off with the CG near the foreward limit and I can trim nose down with the flaperons as the CG moves back to fly hands off. It doesn't take much down flaperon trim and I can't see hardly any reduction in air speed. I didn't want to add on a different pitch trim system. My Kitfox is very basic and I like it that way. The only electrical accessory is the starter and I often think about eliminating that. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV, Phase one 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164852#164852 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:10 PM PST US From: "jdmcbean" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights Those are the same lights we currently offer... We may have a complete LED Nav and Strobes that should be available in April... Self contained and no power supply box for the strobes. Fly Safe !! John & Debra McBean 208.337.5111 www.kitfoxaircraft.com "It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!" -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of SUE MICHAELS Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights If your wanting wing tip strobes with position lights combo unit you are looking at the wrong price. Now your talking $390.00 which opens things up. http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Safety/LED_Position_Lights/led_position_light s.html Sells a unit that I believe is little more streamlined unit with wiring for ten bucks more, but I bet if you call he will match. The strobe bulb and remote strobe box are from a major electronics firm for emergency equipment and lighting so parts should be always available and through other dealers. I just finished blending mine into the wing tips and about ready to prime so if you want pics let me know? George ----- Original Message ---- From: "l.morris@tx.rr.com" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:53:25 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Strobe/position lights Just looking for some feedback on the Magnum Strobe Systems,either the dual or triple systems that Kuntzleman Electronics Inc. sells. They are the cheapest ones I have seen ($228). Has anyone installed them? How do they look and do the have the hardware to install the on curved wing tips?---- Leon Morris/Classic 4 (94)/60%/engine undecided/Flower Mound,TX 5:50 AM 5:50 AM ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:41 PM PST US From: Clint Bazzill Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to put anoth er rod of larger size in its place. Just add a flattend tube as all the ad justments that you needed for first flights etc are finshed. Clint> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer> Date: Mo n, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox- List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Mike-> I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not > 1/8"...at least min e was. No matter. What I was told was to replace > the 3/16" threaded end o f the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use > a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was > to buy AN490 threaded rod ends.. .at least that's what Aircraft Spruce > calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun an d happened to find what I thought > I would need at one of the vendors ther e. I didn't know what size I > would need, as I hadn't cut the original str ut open yet, so I bought > two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was the > one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thicknes s. Spruce calls > this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tub e size" ... > 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of t he new > catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 > t hreaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for > the #10 mounting bolt.> > I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my orig inal struts, > and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shoc ked > me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of > the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose > this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into > the tub e and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection.> > I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my > plane) has the s maller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the > threaded rod end bea ring on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't > measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the > front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where > it attaches to the fuselage tab .> > I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, > un less like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab > and o ne below.> > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jab iru 2200> flying w/475+ hrs> > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:> > > Lynn> >> > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped . The one I > > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter t hreaded > > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested t hat > > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks > > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube.> >> > I final ly decided to make the change so I placed the order. I > > received four tu bes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end > > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty > > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send > > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple.> >> > I was told by Skystar that I should make th e modification as few > > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a > > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you des cribed or is > > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me?> >> > Mike Chan ey> >> > Lynn Matteson wrote:> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson> >> > Were there four individual struts, or two s truts V'd together? From> > your description it sounds like they sent you f our struts/tubes. My> > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shap ed struts...one> > left side and one right side. ......> >> > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> > flying w/4 70+ hrs> >> >> >> > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote:> >> > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I> > > purch ased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox> > > and was in stalling them and ran into a problem. When Be a better > > friend, newshoun d, and _- > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > > www.matronics. com/contribution _- > > ================= ====================> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:33 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Strobe/position lights From: "dcsfoto" I have them,nav/strobe and a strobe on top of the tail. love them, easy to install David Model 7 and 3 do not arcive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164864#164864 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:52 PM PST US From: Clint Bazzill Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you really Like? I don't believe the door blows open. It is a cam lock like a window vent a nd when installing the doors, bend frame slightly so the front closes first , then the rear gets pulled in with perfect wind seal. I cut notches in th e nylon to be able to open the door about 3/4 inch on bottom. This lets i n a lot of air on those hot days. Also, have a small bunge that is used to hold tarps etc connected in the old welding on the door. This allows me t o reach and close the doors if I decide to fly with them open, taking pict ures etc. Also have a small bolt and washer mounted just under the instrum ent panel that I connect this little bunge to to prevent the door from flyi ng open when in the cut out notch. Simple and easy, 10 times as good as my friends double latch, also 10 times as cheap. 300 hours on this setup, would do it over again Clint P.S. I have flown in a number of planes with front and rear door latches, I just do not like them. > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you reall y Like?> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:14:18 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.c > I've heard of occasions where the door blew open due to flex...Michel > i n Norway comes to mind, but I may be wrong. I may be all wet, but > wasn't the double-pin door latch utilized on the Speedster for > exactly that reas on? When I ran into turbulence in Tennessee last > year, that last thing I needed was to have the doors open. If you > think of the distance between t he door hinges and a bottom-of-door > latch, and think of the flex that mig ht occur in the aluminum-framed > door (mine, anyway) I feel a lot safer wi th a mid-door (vertically > speaking) latch.> Perhaps the later models with their square-tubing doors (they are, > aren't they?) are built stronger an d don't require this almost bullet- > proof latch. Sometimes in building, e xtra weight IS needed.> > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Sp eedster w/Jabiru 2200> flying w/475+ hrs> > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:> > > What is wrong with the single nylon wing vent typ e on bottom of > > door. Simple, easy and full proof and perfect fit, fast and > > cheap. Clint> >> > Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:07:28 -0800> > From: b igboyzt0yz@yahoo.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you really Like ?> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> >> > OK Group,> >> > Yes I have posted a lot because there is no sense in re inventing > > the wheel, there are so great Kitfox minds to pull from on the > > list. So what is the VERY best way to make, build, adapt some type > > of latching unit for the doors? I s aw a really cool setup on a > > helicopter it has pins that came out and wa s operated from a > > central turning latch doohickey.> > I am getting read y to install some bubble doors and was looking > > for some kind of latchin g unit that is going to keep the door in > > place and sealed tight.> >> > I am thinking of building the door frames either from scratch or by > > alt ering a set that some one might have and wants to part with > > reasonably. > >> > I could Tig, Machine, ETC. something together that would not be any > > problem so there is no limit to your creativity.> >> > Thanks to All> > Lee> >> >> >> >> > Keep your feet on the peddels and keep reaching for the sky!!!!> >> > Lee> >> > arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator? Kitfox-Listp:// > > forums.matronics.comblank>http://www.matronics.com/cont ribution_- > > ==================== =============== _- > > http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > ============== ===================== _- > > foru ms.matronics.com_- > > ================= ================== _- > > contribution_ - > > ======================= ===============> > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:00 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range An in flight adjustable / constant speed prop on a slow (relative) plane will gain some increase in climb, on a fast plane, it will make a big difference. on a fast sleek plane with low power it will make all the difference in take off and climb. I am not sure how fast a Kitfox is with 912 80HP is, but lets say that This! kitfox is doing 110 mph SL WOT at 1200 lbs. with a fixed pitch 68" diameter prop it have a initial climb of 700 fpm. with a constant speed prop 68" it will climb 940 fpm. 34% better. With 912S 100 Hp and fixed pitch 960 fpm 100 hp and CS prop 1270 fpm Assuming all the rest remain the same, I didn't check for different gear ratio. max speed? 119 mph. Propeller efficiency at 110 mph 77,5% so total drag is 80 * 76 * 0,775 / 49 = 96 kg (212 lb) Say you have total 60 feet (18 meter) of wingstrut drag from faired struts will be 4 kg or 4% of total (plus interference between strut and wing/fuselage) Round tubes? 4 times more or so, that will eazy make a difference of 15 miles. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV speed Range > > At 11:29 PM 2/17/2008, you wrote: >> I will be flying (next year after we build the plane together) with a >> friend that has a Sonex on order and is going to put in a Jab. 3300 in >> it. Or just tell him to deal with the fact that he will have to just fly >> slower or leave later. > > This subject is currently being intensely discussed on the Lancair > list. In general: > > 1. Speed varies with the cube root of power. E.g. double the power, get > 26% more speed, or in the linear realm, to increase speed 1%, increase > power 3%. > > 2. Speed varies with the square root of the drag. E.g. half the drag gives > 41% more speed, or in the linear realm, to increase speed 1%, decrease > drag 2%. > > 3. Perhaps Jan can chime in with a way of quantifying the value of a > variable pitch prop, but the way I look at it is that you get to cruise at > max speed, but at a lower RPM. In other words, if I fly my fixed pitch at > 5800 rpm at a certain speed, then I'll be able to do the same speed at > 5000 rpm with a variable pitch prop. > > The bottom line being that you probably get the most bang for the > buck with #2, drag decreases, followed by #3, the prop, (assuming you're > not Light Sport,) followed by #1, horsepower increases. As for bang for > the effort, switching to a variable pitch prop is probably the easiest, > followed by swapping to the S, followed by drag reductions. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > > __________ NOD32 2838 (20080131) Information __________ > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:03 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer Its NOT ok to weld a socket head cap screw the thing will become brittle and would be subject to easy fracture with a little vibration. They should all be replaced with the AN490 insert and the appropriate rod end. Plenty of tube length when carefully measured, a Simple fix. It is my belief that a stronger tube (thicker wall thickness) is not required. Be sure to switch from #10 threads to 1/4" threads. Paul ================== At 09:43 AM 2/18/2008, you wrote: >I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts, >and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked >me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of >the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose >this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into >the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection. > > >Lynn Matteson >Grass Lake, Michigan >Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 >flying w/475+ hrs ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:46 PM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem with the horizontal stabilizer struts. I went back to the hanger today and decided that I could make it work if I did sandwich the fuseledge tab and a thin spacer between the two struts. The struts were too long so I had to cut off about 1/8 to 3/16 inch off the length of the struts at the flatened area where it attaches to the fuseledge. Mike Chaney Clint Bazzill wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to put another rod of larger size in its place. Just add a flattend tube as all the adjustments that you needed for first flights etc are finshed. Clint > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > Mike- > I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not > 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace > the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and use > a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was > to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft Spruce > calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought > I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I > would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought > two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was the > one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls > this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... > 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new > catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 > threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for > the #10 mounting bolt. > > I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original struts, > and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked > me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of > the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose > this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes into > the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded connection. > > I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my > plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the > threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't > measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and the > front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near where > it attaches to the fuselage tab. > > I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, > unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the tab > and one below. > > Lynn Matteson > Grass Lake, Michigan > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > flying w/475+ hrs > > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > > > Lynn > > > > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I > > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded > > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested that > > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks > > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube. > > > > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I > > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end > > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty > > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send > > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple. > > > > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few > > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a > > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is > > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me? > > > > Mike Chaney > > > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > > > > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? From > > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/tubes. My > > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one > > left side and one right side. ...... > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/470+ hrs > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > > > > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I > > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox > > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better > > friend, newshound, and _- > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > > ================================== > > > --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:02 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Latch Pictures Attached please find the promised door latch pictures. The lug in photo 2 was bought with Murle's kit. I couldn't make his kit work because the latch wasn't long enough to reach my sill. (It could have been made to work with some tube bending and counter-sunk screws.) I made this latch because it self aligns and "snaps" when closed. I used wave springs to provide enough friction to keep the latch where you left it last. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:10 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox IV speed Range At 10:12 AM 2/18/2008, you wrote: >In flight prop might help a small amount but if you go coarser to a >lower rpm like you stated. 5800 to 5000 - i can tell you that your >power curve drops off quickly below 5800 rpm with your stock >exhaust. Plus with the Skystar exhaust mod which cost all 582 >drivers about 5 hp. Sorry for the confusion Dave, I was talking 912 RPM, not 582. (Yes I have a 582, but know some of the 912 #'s.) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:39 PM PST US From: Steve Shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latch Pictures Guy Buchanan wrote: > Attached please find the promised door latch pictures. The lug > in photo 2 was bought with Murle's kit. I couldn't make his kit work > because the latch wasn't long enough to reach my sill. (It could have > been made to work with some tube bending and counter-sunk screws.) I > made this latch because it self aligns and "snaps" when closed. I used > wave springs to provide enough friction to keep the latch where you > left it last. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Guy,,,That is some nice work..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:22 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer If they were too long, I'd check and see if the hort. stab is straight and level, and not drooping. If it is, it will make the elevator hard to work, as the hinge line will be curved instead of a straight line. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/475+ hrs On Feb 18, 2008, at 5:59 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded to my problem with the horizontal > stabilizer struts. I went back to the hanger today and decided > that I could make it work if I did sandwich the fuseledge tab and a > thin spacer between the two struts. The struts were too long so I > had to cut off about 1/8 to 3/16 inch off the length of the struts > at the flatened area where it attaches to the fuseledge. > > Mike Chaney > > Clint Bazzill wrote: > If you decide to change out the rod end, it makes little sense to > put another rod of larger size in its place. Just add a flattend > tube as all the adjustments that you needed for first flights etc > are finshed. Clint > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: horizontal stabilizer > > Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:43:48 -0500 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Mike- > > I think you'll find that the original rod end was 3/16"...not > > 1/8"...at least mine was. No matter. What I was told was to replace > > the 3/16" threaded end of the strut with a 1/4" threaded end, and > use > > a suitable rod end bearing on that new threaded end. What I did was > > to buy AN490 threaded rod ends...at least that's what Aircraft > Spruce > > calls them. I was at Sun 'n' Fun and happened to find what I thought > > I would need at one of the vendors there. I didn't know what size I > > would need, as I hadn't cut the original strut open yet, so I bought > > two each of three sizes. It turned out that the size I needed was > the > > one for use with 3/8" tubing of .035" wall thickness. Spruce calls > > this part # AN490HT6P, and describes it as "used with tube size" ... > > 3/8"x .035" At $11.30 each, they aren't cheap...page 137 of the new > > catalog. Then you'll have to find a rod end bearing of 1/4"-28 > > threaded female shank, with a .190" bore...or 3/16"...this is for > > the #10 mounting bolt. > > > > I just looked at the ends that I had cut off from my original > struts, > > and looking into the tubing I saw something that rather shocked > > me...Skystar had used a socket head cap screw welded into the end of > > the tubing instead of the proper AN490 threaded rod end. I suppose > > this might be OK, but the AN490 has a MUCH longer area that goes > into > > the tube and therefore makes for a much more secure welded > connection. > > > > I looked at my plane yesterday, and the original (at least on my > > plane) has the smaller diameter tube...3/8"...on the front, with the > > threaded rod end bearing on it, and a larger diameter tube...didn't > > measure it...on the rear. The rear tube is flat on both ends, and > the > > front tube intersects it at an angle, and is welded to it, near > where > > it attaches to the fuselage tab. > > > > I can't speak to what Skystar had in mind sending you four tubes, > > unless like Dave G. said, that you are to put one brace above the > tab > > and one below. > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/475+ hrs > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > > > > > Lynn > > > > > > My original is the same as yours, one piece V shaped. The one I > > > have been flying with for years has the 1/8 inch diameter threaded > > > end that goes into the rod end. Skystar at the time suggested that > > > all of the 1/8 in style be replaced with what was larger, it looks > > > like about 1/4 inch bold welded into the end of the tube. > > > > > > I finally decided to make the change so I placed the order. I > > > received four tubes, two for each side. Each tube has a rod end > > > and is flattened on the other end. This replacement seemed pretty > > > simple, take the old off and put the new on. Kitfox did not send > > > any instructions so I just figured it was obviously simple. > > > > > > I was told by Skystar that I should make the modification as few > > > years ago at Oshkosh. Is this modification for my 1994 model IV a > > > one piece V shaped part as my origional and as you described or is > > > it the two seperate tubes as they sent me? > > > > > > Mike Chaney > > > > > > Lynn Matteson wrote: > > > > > > Were there four individual struts, or two struts V'd together? > From > > > your description it sounds like they sent you four struts/ > tubes. My > > > Model IV struts came from the factory as two V-shaped struts...one > > > left side and one right side. ...... > > > > > > Lynn Matteson > > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > > flying w/470+ hrs > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Mike Chaney wrote: > > > > > > > This concerns the horizontal stabilizer struts on a Model IV. I > > > > purchased the beefed up horizontal stabilizer struts from Kitfox > > > > and was installing them and ran into a problem. When Be a better > > > friend, newshound, and _- > > > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-Be a better friend, > newshound, and_- > ============================================================ _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:35 PM PST US From: "jeff puls" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latch Pictures Gary, Quick questions, does your window fit flush with the opening or does it overlap the opening. I believe that if my window overlapped I wouldn't have the problem of the window bowing out in flight. Jeff Classic IV CMH ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Door Latch Pictures > Attached please find the promised door latch pictures. The > lug in photo 2 was bought with Murle's kit. I couldn't make his kit > work because the latch wasn't long enough to reach my sill. (It could > have been made to work with some tube bending and counter-sunk > screws.) I made this latch because it self aligns and "snaps" when > closed. I used wave springs to provide enough friction to keep the > latch where you left it last. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:01 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latching you really Like? At 10:14 AM 2/18/2008, you wrote: >If you >think of the distance between the door hinges and a bottom-of-door >latch, and think of the flex that might occur in the aluminum-framed >door (mine, anyway) I feel a lot safer with a mid-door (vertically >speaking) latch. The bubble doors are incredibly stiff, (and incredibly heavy,) and will mitigate this problem. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:27 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List: Door Latch Pictures At 06:47 PM 2/18/2008, you wrote: >Quick questions, does your window fit flush with the opening or does >it overlap the opening. I believe that if my window overlapped I >wouldn't have the problem of the window bowing out in flight. Jeff >Classic IV CMH My window is recessed along the forward edge, flush along the top edge, and overlapping along the bottom and aft edges. My window doesn't bow because it's a bubble door, and therefore incredibly stiff, with or without the frame. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.