Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: flat area behind struts (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Why the Jail Time? (Noel Loveys)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers (patrick reilly)
4. 07:54 AM - Re: flat area behind struts (bigboyzt0yz)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
6. 11:30 AM - Re: Why the Jail Time? (n85ae)
7. 02:34 PM - Re: Why the Jail Time? (wingnut)
8. 03:31 PM - Re: Why the Jail Time? (n85ae)
9. 03:34 PM - Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers (Guy Buchanan)
10. 05:36 PM - Re: Why the Jail Time? (mikeperkins)
11. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Why the Jail Time? (Noel Loveys)
12. 05:54 PM - Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale (Jimmie Blackwell)
13. 06:12 PM - Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers (Guy Buchanan)
14. 06:21 PM - Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale (Guy Buchanan)
15. 06:32 PM - Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale (Jimmie Blackwell)
16. 06:47 PM - ()
17. 06:47 PM - Re: Re: Why the Jail Time? (Trey Moran)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: flat area behind struts |
This is one method of filling that area. I saw this on a Fox down at Sebring
and duplicated it on mine. It just requires a sheet of .0016 alum and works
well and allows the wing to fold. Another friend of mine used micro balloons and
epoxy. It looks nice and fills the area.
Dick Maddux
Fox4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Why the Jail Time? |
Is there any requirement for a power company to put markers on the
cables crossing a river?? I know some places there is a requirement for
them to have wires crossing a street a minimum of twenty feet at all
times. There are requirements for towers to be lit and marked. Are
there no requirements for wires crossing rivers to be lit and/or marked?
It seems to me the power company may share in responsibility for the
accident.
Do not archive... finally remembered to put it in!
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dpremgood@aim.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:11 PM
Subject: Fwd: Kitfox-List: Why the Jail Time?
-----Original Message-----
Good day all,
I have been following this thread with great interest because this very
same disscussion came up last year on our flying club website.
Here's the FAR as copied from the FAA website:
=C2=A7 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an
aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency
landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or
settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of
1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of
2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the
surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those
cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
91.119(a) is simple; don't hurt yourself or anybody/anything else if
the engine quits.
91.119(c) is also simple; if your over open water, or sparsley
populated areas (ie the boonies), you can fly below 500 feet agl
provided you stay at least 500 feet away from any person, vessel,
vehicle, or structure.
If your in compliance with 91.119 (a) and (c) you can fly below 500 ft
agl safely and legally.
Our club sent this very same question to Transport Canada last year.
Our minimum altitude requirements are the same as in the FARs.
Here's what transpired with us:
Les Gars,
I contacted Transport Canada this morning for a clarification of
CAR602.14. Here is the reply:
Hi Doug,
This is Section 602.14 of the CAR's:
602.14
(2) Except where conducting a take-off, approach or landing or where
permitted under section 602.15, no person shall operate an aircraft
(a) over a built-up area or over an open-air assembly of persons
unless the aircraft is operated at an altitude from which, in the
event of an emergency necessitating an immediate landing, it would be
possible to land the aircraft without creating a hazard to persons or
property on the surface, and, in any case, at an altitude that is not
lower than
(i) for aeroplanes, 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle located
within a horizontal distance of 2,000 feet from the aeroplane,
(ii) for balloons, 500 feet above the highest obstacle located within
a horizontal distance of 500 feet from the balloon, or
(iii) for an aircraft other than an aeroplane or a balloon, 1,000
feet above the highest obstacle located within a horizontal distance
of 500 feet from the aircraft; and
(b) in circumstances other than those referred to in paragraph (a),
at a distance less than 500 feet from any person, vessel, vehicle or
structure.
In fact, para. (b) permits you to fly lower than 500'. The only
requirement is to remain at least at a distance of 500' from the
highest obstacle, measured in any direction. In other words, it is
like staying outside a 500' sphere from the obstacle.
Regards,
Doug Remoundos
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:37 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why the Jail Time?
At 10:22 AM 2/26/2008, you wrote:
>Negligent homicide.....
>
>Here is a good link to the case.
Man, isn't this list awesome! Ask a
difficult question and get great answers! This is
what I was looking for, a presumption of
negligence when flying at 50'. It is interesting
that neither the ASI nor the CFI know the proper
altitude regulation that requires that you fly
high enough to land safely if the engine quits.
(91.119a) It's also interesting that 91.119c
specifically exempts staying 500' above "open
water". Don't know if the river he was over was
"open water". He certainly wasn't 500' over the
power line "structure", if that's what you call
it, though of course he didn't know it was there.
Why am I interested? Because that kind
of flying is what Kitfoxes do best. If it carries
a presumption of negligence then it just got a
lot more dangerous, (for the pilot.)
"Her opinion was that
he flew in violation of =C2=A7 91.119 of the US FAR
91.16, which is entitled =9CMinimum Safe
Altitudes=9D that requires an altitude of 500 feet
about the surface over congested areas. This
would include that an aircraft should not be
operated closer than 500 feet between a
person, vessel, vehicle or structure. She further
believes that his piloting was in violation of
FAR 91.13 entitled =9CCareless or Reckless
Operation of an Aircraft.=9D ASI Krueger=99s opinion
was that Strub was negligent in the piloting of
the airplane over the River flying at altitudes
somewhere in the area of 50 feet above the water.
ASI Krueger states that all pilots are
required to fly at higher altitude so that if
there is a problem with the aircraft, the pilot can
attempt to safely land. The distances off the
ground that Strub was piloting his plane would
clearly not allow him to recover from any engine problem.
6. On August 2, 2005, Gregory Gorak, a pilot with
38 years of piloting experience, certified
as a professional flight instructor holding
several other professional certifications, stated to
Inv. Gosh that he had an opportunity to read a
copy of the accident investigation involving
the crash. In his opinion, this was clear error
on the part of the pilot in being careless and
reckless in the operation of his aircraft since
there would no time for any safe landing when
you operate an aircraft between 30 to 40 feet
above the water, other than possibly a
seaplane. Gorak is aware of the regulations as to
how many feet above water you must
safely operate and that indicated that no prudent
pilot would operate in such a manner as
the defendant did. He stated it was simply =9Can accident waiting
to
happen.=9D"
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Supercharge your AIM. Get the AIM
<http://download.aim.com/client/aimtoolbar?NCID=aolcmp00300000002586>
toolbar for your browser.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Jury and Stab. Strut covers |
Lee, Where did you get the PVC for the strut covers? What is the material d
esigned to be used for ?
Do not archieve
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Jury and Stab. Strut covers> From: bigb
oyzt0yz@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:16:51 -0800> To: kitfox-list@m
yz@yahoo.com>> > Was wondering what is out there to put on the Jury and Hoz
. Stab tubes to clean them up. I really want something that does not requir
e putting wood on them and covering with fabric. I have started installing
the PVC covers on the Struts. Looking better.> > --------> Lee Fritz in owi
ngs Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100% Complete (j
ust adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 "Have
your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".> > > > > Read
this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=16
6689#166689> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/im
-========================
========> > >
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: flat area behind struts |
Thank you the connector it looks real good. I am about to that point and also was
looking for a way to once the wing is folded open for flight a way to add the
rest of the airfoil to the strut. Some Item that can be removed next winter
when It is down for the yearly inspection.
I was thinking of something that is attached at the top and folds down and locks
in place for flight.
Lee
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100%
Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 "Have
your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166742#166742
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers |
Blue Sky Aviation has light weight PVC foils for the small struts. They also have
rod end covers.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "bigboyzt0yz" <bigboyzt0yz@yahoo.com>
>
> Was wondering what is out there to put on the Jury and Hoz. Stab tubes to clean
> them up. I really want something that does not require putting wood on them and
> covering with fabric. I have started installing the PVC covers on the Struts.
> Looking better.
>
> --------
> Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100%
> Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07
> "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166689#166689
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_6774_166.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Blue Sky Aviation has light weight PVC foils for the small struts. They
also have rod end covers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "bigboyzt0yz" <bigboyzt0yz@yahoo.com> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "bigboyzt0yz" <BIGBOYZT0YZ@YAHOO.COM><BR>> <BR>> Was wondering what is out there to put on the Jury and Hoz. Stab tubes to clean <BR>> them up. I really want something that does not require putting wood on them and <BR>> covering with fabric. I have started installing the PVC covers on the Struts. <BR>> Looking better. <BR>> <BR>> -------- <BR>> Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100% <BR>> Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 <BR>> "Have your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky". <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Read this topic online here: <BR>> <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166689#
166689
> _
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
You take somebody for a ride in a plane, you ARE responsible for their
well being. You have an accident that they get injured, or killed, and
there are rules/regulations that govern that activity which you were
ignoring. To me that is negligent, and presumably to most responsible
people the interpretation is that as well.
The guy was doing something stupid and got somebody killed. I think
you can sympathize with how he might feel, however he's in deep
stuff. Which is his own doing.
That's my reading of it.
If that was my kid in his plane, he'd have more than legal issues to
worry about.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166777#166777
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
Certainly the guy did something stupid. Flying low over a part of the river that
he was not intimately familiar with is reckless and the outcome is entirely
his fault. However, whether or not his poor judgment raises to the level of negligent
homicide isn't all the clear cut to me.
The problem I have with the way the case is worded is that they seem to be saying
that the very act of flying low even if your over water is already reason enough
to throw the book at him. I think that there are a few pilots on this list
that would take exception to that view.
Another point that seems relevant to me and hasn't been mentioned is whether the
passenger knew what she was getting into. Did she seek this guy out precisely
because of his reputation for flying low over the river?
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166813#166813
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
Seems clear enough to me. He was operating outside what's allowed by the
fars, and it wasn't an emergency. in fact he was intentionally flying low.
Which as I see it isn't like he busted some controlled airspace or something
like that. The result of his doing it was his passenger died.
Drag racing in a car on city streets, and killing a passenger will you get
you the same thing.
Hitting a tree while drunk on a snowmobile and killing a passenger will
get you the same thing.
Running a water skier into a dock while driving a boat, same thing.
To my way of thinking all of the above are the same thing. I think
negligient homicide should just be renamed "killing somebody by
being stupid".
Maybe that's harsh. But just because your version of a stupid thing, cost
a lot and requires a lot of training, doesn't make it less stupid, right? In
fact, you might argue that since it does take a lot of training, and in fact
the pilot HAD been tested on his knowledge (i.e. pilot exam) he really
has no excuse. Hence it is even more stupid, than somebody killing
somebody with a car. Since operating a car takes a lot less training.
Jails have lots of people in them who will spend the rest of their lives
with deep remorse for having done something stupid that cost a life.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166825#166825
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers |
At 10:16 PM 2/27/2008, you wrote:
>Was wondering what is out there to put on the Jury and Hoz. Stab
>tubes to clean them up. I really want something that does not
>require putting wood on them and covering with fabric. I have
>started installing the PVC covers on the Struts. Looking better.
Mine were made from 4130 streamlined tubing from ACS, PN
03-11300. They were slipped over then end, (where applicable,) then
filled with expanding foam. Joints were glassed.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
Instructors don't always know the FARs. I had an instructor in a BFR ask that I
simulate an engine-out landing down to 50 feet over an open field. I had to tell
him the FARs didn't allow that and he insisted, resulting in an "large" discussion
right then and there.. . . Another instructor tested me witn a simulated
engine-out just to SEE if I knew the FARs and would violate the altitude
restriction. At 600 feetI initiated a discussion about it, and at 550, we were
on our way up.
I suggest each pilot have a current copy of FAR/AIM and periodically read it. It's
only $18.
Also, don't forget to fill out an ASRS form after an uninmtentional violation. It's also sometimes called the NASA get-out-of-jail form. See http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ for the form and immunity information.
Nothing, however, prevents a district attorney from filing criminal charges or
a private person from filing a civil lawsuit against a pilot for any action that
harmed someone or something.
- Mike Perkins
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166844#166844
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
I really can't find much fault in your arguments except if the local
aviation charts didn't designate the power corridor for whatever reason. I
think it's a bit convenient that the pilot take the full responsibility for
the accident. If however he didn't check the charts of the area before the
flight then he didn't take the prescribed precautions to have a safe flight
and as you say that is negligence. If however he had within a reasonable
period of time consulted the charts and the info was either missing or
incorrect then he could have correctly thought he was flying inside the FARs
that is not negligence.
Using your examples of the drag racing. The drivers manuals everywhere warn
against doing this, as they warn against the operation of any power machine
while intoxicated... Locally it is also illegal to operate a small power
boat or even a power wheel chair while intoxicated even if you don't leave
your own driveway. As for driving a water skier into a dock that can only
be done if you aren't towing that skier ( the skier is not on a hard tow rod
but a rope which allows him to make directional changes) but there is a
responsibility of the boat operator to avoid congested areas where a skier
could be forced into a crash. However if the operators of any of the above
equipment take reasonable steps to ensure a safe trip then they are not
negligent. i.e. drag racing at a strip (people can and have been killed)...
snowmobiling in known territory at reasonable speeds, or water skiing in
open water with the proper look outs.
The case as I see it comes down to the term reasonable. If it can be proven
the pilot did have and regularly use VFR charts and had used the route
several times in the past etc. Etc. Then there may be an argument for
others, The Power company and the FAA cartographers, to shoulder some of the
blame and responsibility.
I say some of the responsibility because in the end the pilot has the
principal responsibility for everything to do with his plane once he takes
control, just as the captain of a ship is responsible for even the actions
of lowly cabin attendants on his ship.
The problem here is, we don't have all the information only that there was a
crash into power lines at low altitude which resulted in a fatality. In
fact we don't even know if the "Expert witnesses" even toured the crash site
or if they testified in generalities or un informed opinion. There may also
be other extenuating circumstances that are not mentioned... For example
was there a lot of other traffic at higher altitudes that would have
prolonged a flight with a sick passenger on board??
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 7:58 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why the Jail Time?
Seems clear enough to me. He was operating outside what's allowed by the
fars, and it wasn't an emergency. in fact he was intentionally flying low.
Which as I see it isn't like he busted some controlled airspace or something
like that. The result of his doing it was his passenger died.
Drag racing in a car on city streets, and killing a passenger will you get
you the same thing.
Hitting a tree while drunk on a snowmobile and killing a passenger will
get you the same thing.
Running a water skier into a dock while driving a boat, same thing.
To my way of thinking all of the above are the same thing. I think
negligient homicide should just be renamed "killing somebody by
being stupid".
Maybe that's harsh. But just because your version of a stupid thing, cost
a lot and requires a lot of training, doesn't make it less stupid, right? In
fact, you might argue that since it does take a lot of training, and in fact
the pilot HAD been tested on his knowledge (i.e. pilot exam) he really
has no excuse. Hence it is even more stupid, than somebody killing
somebody with a car. Since operating a car takes a lot less training.
Jails have lots of people in them who will spend the rest of their lives
with deep remorse for having done something stupid that cost a life.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166825#166825
Message 12
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| Subject: | Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale |
I have made a very difficult decision today to sell my Kitfox. Wanted
to offer it on the list before I advertise it on Barnstormers.
Here are some of the vitals about the airplane and accessories:
Kitfox IV, 912 UL Speedster, solid 9 + in and out: Red and Yellow color
scheme.
Grove gear
Strobes
Nav lights
IVO ground adjustabe prop
Wheel pants (painted to match airplane, but not installed)
Two 13 Gallon tanks
912 UL Rotax engine, 440 hours TTA&E
Oil cooler
Scoop radiator cover
King KX-125A comm/nav
King Transponder
MGL Artifical horizon and Compass
Dash mounted Card Compass
Electric Trim
ELT
Speedster options including top and bottom false ribs and aerodynamic
tail feathers
Other things that come with the plane:
Custom made trailer, (plane has never been trailered. I was just ready
in case). Trailer painted to match color scheme of plane.
Lowrance 1000 GPS. Database updated 3 months ago.
A hangar full of misc. parts for the Kitfox including about $700.00
worth of new AN hardware.
Rotax 912 UL compresstion gauge.
Metal tube bending set.
Extra tail wheel and springs.
Extra set of 8" Douglas wheels with brake rotor attached.
Set of new brake shoes.
Rib stitching needles and thread.
Several rolls of pinked edge tape, 10 rolls I believe
Spare oil, gas and coolant hoses.
Lots of other stuff in the hangar such as saw hoses, old compressor
(works), hardware storage cabinets, three plastic gas cans, wing braces
small refrigirator and lots of other things to maintain the Kitfox.
All the obove for $28,500.
Will have new pictures in the next few days and will be happy to send
them to anyone interested.
Feel free to call me at 512 695-6627.
Thanks to all.
Jimmie Blackwell
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jury and Stab. Strut covers |
At 08:02 AM 2/28/2008, you wrote:
>Blue Sky Aviation has light weight PVC foils for the small
>struts. They also have rod end covers.
>
John,
Do you have a URL for Blue Sky? I got too many hits.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale |
At 05:51 PM 2/28/2008, you wrote:
>I have made a very difficult decision today to sell my
>Kitfox. Wanted to offer it on the list before I advertise it on Barnstormers.
Where are you Jimmie?
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale |
I am in Cedar Park, Texas which is a suburb of Austin. I keep the
airplane in a hangar at T74, Taylor, Texas.
Jimmie
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Buchanan
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale
At 05:51 PM 2/28/2008, you wrote:
I have made a very difficult decision today to sell my Kitfox.
Wanted to offer it on the list before I advertise it on Barnstormers.
Where are you Jimmie?
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Why the Jail Time? |
Mike,
I am not advocating flying low in unfamiliar territory, and I am not
advocating engine out approaches to a low altitude go around (as a CFI,
I don't do it). But you can't say the FARs prohibit either, unless you
are falling back on the "reckless operation" paragraph. There is nothing
in the minimum altitude requirements of FAR 91.119 that prohibits either
of these situations.
Trey Moran
----- Original Message -----
From: mikeperkins
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 6:32 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why the Jail Time?
<michael.perkins@rauland.com>
Instructors don't always know the FARs. I had an instructor in a BFR
ask that I simulate an engine-out landing down to 50 feet over an open
field. I had to tell him the FARs didn't allow that and he insisted,
resulting in an "large" discussion right then and there.. . . Another
instructor tested me witn a simulated engine-out just to SEE if I knew
the FARs and would violate the altitude restriction. At 600 feetI
initiated a discussion about it, and at 550, we were on our way up.
I suggest each pilot have a current copy of FAR/AIM and periodically
read it. It's only $18.
Also, don't forget to fill out an ASRS form after an uninmtentional
violation. It's also sometimes called the NASA get-out-of-jail form. See
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/ for the form and immunity information.
Nothing, however, prevents a district attorney from filing criminal
charges or a private person from filing a civil lawsuit against a pilot
for any action that harmed someone or something.
- Mike Perkins
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166844#166844
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