Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:41 AM - Re: Cross-Wind T & G (moosepileit)
2. 06:03 AM - Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale (moosepileit)
3. 06:54 AM - Re: Cross-Wind T & G (Michael Laundy)
4. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: Cross-Wind T & G (Noel Loveys)
5. 01:15 PM - Sensenich ground adjustable composite props (W Duke)
6. 05:17 PM - Re: Sensenich ground adjustable composite props (Guy Buchanan)
7. 06:13 PM - Re: Sensenich ground adjustable composite props (markL)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cross-Wind T & G |
I see the same thing- the crab transition to slip for touchdown did not work.
Either poor technique or exceeded limits or a combo of both. Obviously I think
the 155mph was the approach speed. I flew on a C-17 that day into Germany,
winds were 50+ mph until a few hundred feet, then 30 MPH at touchdown, but mostly
down the runway. I think we'll find out the winds were right at the limits
for the aircraft and the decrab was performed too high.
I don't fly the Bus, so I don't know if it is allowed to touchdown with crab. If
so, it might have been necessary to do so in that wind! By decrabbing there
may have not been enough aileron and/or spoiler mix to keep the upwind wing LOW.
When the right wing comes up, centerline was lost.
ALways a camera on you!
Moosepileit
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Speedster, 912UL For Sale |
I'm interested! Coming off first year airline pay soon at UPS! please email pics
when you get them. Sounds right up the alley I'm interested in! Would fly
back to DE and then later Uhaul the rest while pulling the trailer- not a covered
box trailer, but a kitfox open trailer, correct?
Thanks!
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167792#167792
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| Subject: | Re: Cross-Wind T & G |
I have just retired from commercial flying in heavy jets and the technique we used
for crosswinds was wing down and land on the into wind wheels.The maximum
crosswind I have landed in, using that technique was about 40 kts and pretty interesting!
The airbus in the film clip on TV looked as if it was using crab technique, where
the danger with a swept wing aircraft is a powerful rolling couple when applying
a large rudder input, and it looked as if that is what happened. There
is a further problem with the Airbus (which I flew in the mid 90s) in that its
fly by wire control system automatically reduces control effectiveness when
close to the ground to prevent pilot over controlling. The theory being that the
flight control computer would maintain the ac attitude in turbulence without
a control input by the pilot. Personally I did not like that aspect of the Airbus
as it reduced the roll rate significantly when near the ground and on a
few occasions in moderate turbulence I had full deflection side stick with the
aircraft still rolling the other way for a brief period, not a nice feeling!
Another possibility is mutual interference by the pilots as the side stick controls
in the Airbus work independently, it is possible for the pilots to put in
opposite control inputs (i.e. the captain may want to override the copilot),
in that event the computer takes the average of the 2 inputs!
I find in my Kitfox 3 there is little adverse roll when applying rudder so I use
crab technique and kick the drift off just before touchdown, with a short burst
of power to give me more slipstream over the rudder and elevators to increase
their effectiveness.
Mike Laundy
Kitfox 3
England
mscotter@comcast.net wrote: If I'm not mistaken, airline procedures typically
call for the 'crabbing' technique as some heavies can easily touch an engine or
wingtip down when using the slipping technique and getting close to the ground.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: KITFOXZ@aol.com
Still, I'll bet this Airbus pilot could gain some skill level by landing your
3 in a 20 mph cross-wind! --Even though he was dealing with some component of
155 mph! Pat yourself on the back. With your Fox, you don't have the help
of slats, spoilers, and lots of thrust to help you out! I wonder how lightly
loaded he was?
John P. Marzluf "John Z"
Columbus, Ohio
Series V Outback (still out back in the garage)
Do Not Archiven
In a message dated 3/3/2008 1:45:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, michel@online.no
writes:
> From: KITFOXZ@aol.com
> Here's an example of a good save! And we thought our Foxes are a rudder
> workout!
Yes, I have just seen it on the Norwegian television, tonight. Now, I don't want
to to sound arrogant toward a professional pilot with thousands of hours but
...
To me, it looks like he is coming in crabbing, then righten up with the runway
at the last second. The left rudder movement plus the side wind lifts the right
wing up and the left wing is so close to the ground that an accident is barely
avoided.
With my tiny Kitfox, I have train for that and come in in a side slip, keeping
the windward wing low and a foot on the other pedal, ready to avoid weathercocking.
It means, of course, to land on only one gear, the windward one. I have
done it as a training and the m ost wi nd (from the nearby ATIS) I have experienced
is 12 knots. Nothing in comparison to this aircraft but ... probably the
most I dare to experience with my Kitfox 3.
Again, I don't want to be arrogant; just saying what I would have done if I was
him. Please, fire at me; I hope to learn in the process.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
do not archive
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cross-Wind T & G |
Funny thing is it seems as if it only happened yesterday... It ewas so faxt
I didn't even get the chance to ....
Noel
582 out
Waiting on parts to put 912 in!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rexinator
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Cross-Wind T & G
I'd love to have heard the CVR playback from that landing! :-)
do not archive
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
Noel Loveys wrote:
> In Dec 1975 I was in a DC-8 that landed at gander Intl. Airport. The
> runways were extremely icy and the reverse thrusters didn't seem to
> work at all. I was in a right hand seat overlooking the wing.....
> Watching the runway disappear in front of me as the plane slid down
> the runway sideways at what seemed to be the speed of light. It was
> runway 31 and I could see the lights of the town getting closer at an
> alarming rate!
>
> Somehow or the other the plane ended up going down the runway
> backwards.. At least we didn't have to see what was happening! If you
> die that way you'll never get into heaven...St. Peter would never
> believe it! Any way the pilots got the darn thing stopped without
> leaving the runway for a tour of the town. We taxied back to the
> terminal where we slid the last twenty feet or so before the engines
> were shut down.... Bad move... The DC - 8 didn't have an APU and
> ground power wasn't available for close to an hour while the crews
> outside were fighting ice to allow the power wagons to get close
> enough to the plane to hook up. There we sat in the dark quiet cold
> for close to an hour before they would get the power on for heat and
> light ... Then we got to wait another fifteen minutes while the
> walkway to the terminal ( no jetways... Still don't have 'em) was
> being de-iced. There must have been some minor power in the plane
> because the pilot used the intercom to make the announcements about
> the cold and dark and to apologize for shutting down the last engine
> before ground power was hooked up.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Sensenich ground adjustable composite props |
I see Sensenich has come out with ground adjustable composite props for the engines
like my IO240. Does anyone have experience with these or the Sensenich ground
adjustable composite props for the Rotax/jabiru that have been out a little
longer?
Thanks.
Maxwell Duke
S6/TD/IO240
Dublin, GA
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adjustable composite props |
At 01:12 PM 3/5/2008, you wrote:
>Does anyone have experience with these or the Sensenich ground
>adjustable composite props for the Rotax/jabiru that have been out a
>little longer?
The two guys I fly with, (Kitfox / 912S) love them and think
the prop improved their performance by at least a factor of two.
($1700 / $850 = 2.0) I must admit they look great, are easy to
adjust, and are light.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sensenich ground adjustable composite props |
Hi,
I have the Sensenich GA with the nickel leading edge protection. I love it, it
has great thrust on t/o, incredibly easy to adjust (you can fly x/c take a screwdriver
and a wrench with you and adjust it on the ramp in minutes if you want
to go faster or climb better), great protection (bird strike did nothing to
the prop but broke my windshield) and I get a lot of compliments on how cool it
looks with the round cowling.
Regards,
ML
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