Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Re: Breaker / switch question? (Ken Potter)
2. 04:46 AM - Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter)
3. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jose M. Toro)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (dave)
5. 06:41 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve)
6. 07:01 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter)
7. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Noel Loveys)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Noel Loveys)
9. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Randy Lervold)
10. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (patrick reilly)
11. 11:48 AM - Emailing: IMG_1058 (DeWayne Clifford)
12. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Lynn Matteson)
13. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Randy Lervold)
14. 02:53 PM - Electrical Question?? (SUE MICHAELS)
15. 03:03 PM - Sky King.... (kaufjm@aol.com)
16. 03:07 PM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter)
17. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Noel Loveys)
18. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Guy Buchanan)
19. 04:43 PM - Re: Electrical Question?? (Noel Loveys)
20. 05:10 PM - Breaker / switch question? (Rexster)
21. 05:11 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Donroutledge@aol.com)
22. 05:45 PM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (Mike Chaney)
23. 05:58 PM - Re: Sky King.... (steve shinabery)
24. 06:06 PM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (steve shinabery)
25. 06:19 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (dave)
26. 06:51 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve)
27. 07:27 PM - turtle deck cover (DeWayne Clifford)
28. 08:13 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Noel Loveys)
29. 08:24 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Noel Loveys)
30. 08:32 PM - Re: Sky King.... (84KF)
31. 08:36 PM - Re: Sky King.... (84KF)
32. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Lynn Matteson)
33. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Noel Loveys)
34. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring diagrams.
They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to wire my Kitfox
II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate switchs.
Cheers
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170139#170139
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| Subject: | Rotax 582 Alternator |
Hi Folks;
I am currently wiring my Kitfox II which has a Rotax 582 with internal alternator.
I would like to install an Alt/Bat split switch but cannot figure out which
wire coming out of the alternator to the regulator is the field wire. Can
anyone help me out??
Cheers
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170141#170141
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Steve:
I remember your plane on the Dan Denney brochures. Never thought it could look
so beautiful as a tricycle.
After studying the pictures I still have a couple of questions. Do you have a
picture showing the
Grove gear attached to the fuelage? Our model II fuselage has a clip right under
the wing lift strut attachment which, in my opinion, is not as strong as the
two clips that attach the traditional landing gear in the taildragger position.
I would like to confirm that this is the rear clip that you mention.
Do you think that extending the rudder of your plane was a requirement of the conversion
or just an enhancement? I owned this model II for ten years (1997-2007)
and always thought the rudder authority was adequate (enough).
After seen your pictures, "my" plane's new owner became convinced that this is
the direction he wants to move. I didn't mention on my original e-mail that the
plane is now under repair after a groundloop that caused considerable damage
under the seat and at the tailwheel attachment.
Thanks for your support!
Jose
----- Original Message ----
From: SkySteve <Wilson@REinfo.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:49:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder
Jose,
Here are some photos I have that may help. The grove gear should be attached to
the rear clips on the airframe. It comes with attachment plates to attach it
to those rear clips. If your airframe doesn't have rear clips, John McBean
sells them. I purchased some from him just in case mine needed to be moved to
a different location. They did not need to be moved.
McBean also sells the complete (wheel & tire included) nose wheel assembly which
comes with detailed instructions of how to install. I purchased mine from him.
Also, note on photo #6 the addition of height to the vertical stabilizer and the
addition of a Model IV rudder. This has really helped give good rudder authority
which I found out after purchasing my Model I was one of the major problems
that was addressed in later models and finally fixed in the model IV.
Please understand I am not a builder nor am I an engineer and I have no knowledge
in airplane design. I just listen to others well. I hope this info is of
help to you.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170034#170034
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Alternator |
Ken,
You should have 2 yellow wires, one will have a black stripe. these are both AC
voltage and go to your regulator. The regulator is also a rectifier which converts
AC to DC. Although I am a Rotax dealer , I would suggest that a Key west
regulator is a better option fora more constant voltage and liklley a cleaner
voltage.
1-866-418-4164 toll free
http://www.rotaxservices.com/
If you order ,tell Bob you came from this site.
They will be some give-a-aways to web traffic there soon.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170151#170151
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Jose,
Thanks. I kind of like the looks of it myself.
The rear clip position you refer to is where my new Grove gear is attached. My
rear clips are the same as the front clips. When my plane was on floats, I think
this is where the floats attach also. See attached photo of new main gear
attachment.
I did the vertical stabilizer and rudder mods to try to bring my plane more up
to date as long as I was doing the trigear mod. I guess I wouldn't consider this
a required mod, but knowing that it has historically been an issue and very
solvable, it just seemed like it should be done and the difference is VERY noticeable.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170153#170153
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Alternator |
Thanks Dave;
I have the regulator installed with the two yellow wires as per the Rotax wiring
diagram. Can I lead one of these wires to the alt switch and then back to the
regulator??
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170156#170156
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
There is a convention that says to put the breaker as close to the busses as
possible. Attached directly to the buss is good. I also have a relay at
the battery to protect the whole system from a short.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box going to 912
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring
diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to wire
my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate switchs.
Cheers
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170139#170139
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Alternator |
First of all the 582 strictly speaking has a magneto, not an alternator with
a proper field coil, so it always puts out 100% the power it can for a given
RPM. Personally I wouldn't cut into the AC (Y/Bk tracer) wires going to the
Rectifier/Regulator. You will find a heavier wire, probably red, which goes
from the Rectifier/Regulator through the firewall to the main buss. That is
the wire I'd cut the ALT switch into. To take pressure off the
Rectifier/Regulator the only time I'd turn that switch off is when the
engine is stopped, in an emergency or an overvoltage situation. Turning it
off as a normal part of flight could damage the Rectifier/regulator.
The battery switch is another quintal of fish! Having a big wire running
from your battery through this switch to the main buss and the starter is
going to prove two things... An increase in weight (big wire) and a honkin'
big current running through your panel. Neither of these are what I would
call desirable. I installed a battery relay in my plane right at the
battery. Doing this allows me to control the battery connection to the buss
with a very low (2A could be 1A fused) current. It also allows me to
isolate the whole of the electrical system from the battery in case of an
emergency. Wiring a relay in is no big deal just make sure you get the
relay like the ones they use for additional batteries in trailers and RVs
NOT a starter relay. Starter relays will heat up in less than a minute.
They both cost the low side of $10.00 They can be wired to activate with
the control to ground or voltage positive to the control lug. I wired mine
to activate with a ground (less wire) but with two small leads I could have
wired it for a positive fused 1 or 2A fed directly from the battery. Doing
it that way protects the battery from switching live in the case of a short
circuit on the control line like is possible in a fire.
It's good to be aware that the output of the 582 magneto is only 16A so it's
a good idea to keep a close eye on how much drain you put on it. Eg
radios,T&B, Nav lights, Strobes and a GPS may not leave enough power to
operate landing lights.
Finally do yourself a favour. Make a detailed drawing of exactly what you
install. Where all the connectors, fuses,breakers and switches are. Yes
it's a real pain in the butt to make one but if you ever decide to change or
install something it will save you a lot of time and if you ever sell your
plane...Wow!
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator
Thanks Dave;
I have the regulator installed with the two yellow wires as per the Rotax
wiring diagram. Can I lead one of these wires to the alt switch and then
back to the regulator??
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170156#170156
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
> The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring
> diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to
> wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate
> switchs.
Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but a two time RV builder. We use
Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV world and they work
fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them either. Just curious, don't the
Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram? Using breakers with
separate switches will work fine but you're introducing at least two
additional connections one more device into each circuit and they are each a
potential failure point.
Here's a pic of breaker/switches used for lighting...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg
And here's a pic of them used similarly in a panel (right hand side)...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinished1.jpg
Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to", Bob
Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on experimental
aircraft wiring.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
www.rv-3.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
Randy, I am an RV "lurker" and am rebuilding a Mod 3 Kitfox that was origin
ally built in 93. It was hit by a car while on a trailer. Good to have an R
V'er on board. I figure the Kitfox is a low and slow bush plane and the RV
a get up and go plane for cross counrty. Airplanes are like automobiles or
motorcycles. They have a designated use and envelope of performance. Compro
mise to accomplish it all just doesn't work. Although, I just found out the
Kitfox 7 with a 914 Turbo will cruise at 150 mph. I'd really love to have
an RV 4. I "lurk" on Van's Airforce and Barnstormers for a deal on an RV 4
with damage or no engine. I missed an RV 4, no fwf for $7000. Sold 1st day.
I wonder why? Anyway, welcome aboard. What is your location? This site is
the motherlode of Kitfox info.
Do not archieve
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> From: randy@romeolima.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Sub
ject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 20
ndy@romeolima.com>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Potter" <kj
potter@sympatico.ca>> > The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a numbe
r of generic wiring > > diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am u
sing one of them to > > wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon brea
kers with separate > > switchs.> > Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but
a two time RV builder. We use > Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the t
ime in the RV world and they work > fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with
them either. Just curious, don't the > Kitfox plans come with a suggested w
iring diagram? Using breakers with > separate switches will work fine but y
ou're introducing at least two > additional connections one more device int
o each circuit and they are each a > potential failure point.> > Here's a p
ic of breaker/switches used for lighting...> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq
/Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg> > And here's a pic of them used similarly in a pa
nel (right hand side)...> http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinish
ed1.jpg> > Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to",
Bob > Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on experi
mental > aircraft wiring.> > Randy Lervold> www.rv-8.com> www.rv-3.com> > >
> > >
Message 11
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| Subject: | Emailing: IMG_1058 |
I'll take some installed pictures
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_1058
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier
said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that
I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one
of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit.
(Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes
to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held
it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine.
Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel,
and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag,
and all systems are go. It's never happened since then.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs
On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
> <randy@romeolima.com>
> We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV
> world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them
> either.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv-8.com
> www.rv-3.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
Thanks Pat, I'm up in the Portland, Oregon area, Van's back yard. I plan
to start a Super Sport soon. Just let me know if I can help with
anything, I'm an active EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor as
well.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: patrick reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
Randy, I am an RV "lurker" and am rebuilding a Mod 3 Kitfox that was
originally built in 93. It was hit by a car while on a trailer. Good to
have an RV'er on board. I figure the Kitfox is a low and slow bush plane
and the RV a get up and go plane for cross counrty. Airplanes are like
automobiles or motorcycles. They have a designated use and envelope of
performance. Compromise to accomplish it all just doesn't work.
Although, I just found out the Kitfox 7 with a 914 Turbo will cruise at
150 mph. I'd really love to have an RV 4. I "lurk" on Van's Airforce and
Barnstormers for a deal on an RV 4 with damage or no engine. I missed an
RV 4, no fwf for $7000. Sold 1st day. I wonder why? Anyway, welcome
aboard. What is your location? This site is the motherlode of Kitfox
info.
Do not archieve
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: randy@romeolima.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:04:43 -0700
>
<randy@romeolima.com>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
> > The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic
wiring
> > diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of
them to
> > wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with
separate
> > switchs.
>
> Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but a two time RV builder. We
use
> Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV world and
they work
> fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them either. Just curious,
don't the
> Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram? Using breakers
with
> separate switches will work fine but you're introducing at least two
> additional connections one more device into each circuit and they
are each a
> potential failure point.
>
> Here's a pic of breaker/switches used for lighting...
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg
>
> And here's a pic of them used similarly in a panel (right hand
side)...
> http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinished1.jpg
>
> Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to", Bob
> Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on
experimental
> aircraft wiring.
>
> Randy Ler==============
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Electrical Question?? |
These question are to make me comfortable. I have read enough to contradict my
ever setup. I figured I would ask those who have built a nice but simple setup
that has worked.
1. ?? I want to the feed and to return the wire from the alternator to a switch
on the panel. 14 ? 16 ? 18 ? wire gauge for alternator wire. Should the return
wire connect directly to the battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master
off) or where? Should I fuse this? I have 50 amp alternator.
2. ?? Master switch one wire goes Directly from the panel switch to the Master
solenoid (small connector) and the other to airframe ground. Wire size ??
No fuse??
3. ?? Hot wire feed for the panel should come from where? Direct from battery?
Cold side of master solenoid (master off) ? The ignition switch ? Or where?
This should be fused I assume with maybe 40 amp since I have 50 amp alternator
and many panel circuits.
Any other Ideas that don't blow a budget that has no funds left in it would be
greatly appreciated.
Thanks George
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Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories!
Jon Kaufmann
IV 1200 912ULS
Bettendorf IA.
Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back
to your
childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember
these, but
for the rest of you, it's a time capsule.
http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Alternator |
Thank Noel;
I have already installed a battery relay (from Aircraft Spruce; pricey but certified)
and am wiring the plane to accepted aircraft standards. Thanks for clarifying
the nature of the "alternator" in the Rotax. I'll run the red wire through
the alt switch and ensure that it is always on unless the engine is off.
As for the diagram, I've been following a generic diagram in Tony Gengelis's book
Firewall Forward, with modifications for my individual loads. I have however
been drawing it out as I install wires. As for loads, I have; nav lights,
tip strobes, transponder, heater fan, Icom handheld radio, and Garmin 296 GPS.
The GPS and the radio both have internal batteries and, even though they are
being wired into the panel, they should not be a large load for the endurance
the aircraft has.
I see from your pic that you are flying floats. I am interested in amphib floats
but am concerned about the weight. Can you give me an idea about the performance
you get from your plane on floats??
Cheers
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170226#170226
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
Lynn:
I quite agree with you about the breaker switches but It is true that if you
are using the switches several times each day they will wear out and break
open sooner and sooner. When that happens replace them. I am bit
surprised that your starter energized draws close to five amps @ 12V I
don't think mine draws a full amp.
Ever notice the number of those switches used in commercial planes??
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, (out) Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier
said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that
I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one
of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit.
(Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes
to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held
it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine.
Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel,
and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag,
and all systems are go. It's never happened since then.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs
On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
> <randy@romeolima.com>
> We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV
> world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them
> either.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv-8.com
> www.rv-3.com
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
At 09:04 AM 3/16/2008, you wrote:
>Just curious, don't the Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram?
HAHAHAHAHA! Hooo. Heee. (Eye wipe emoticon.) Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I can only hope John's improved this area of the manual.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Electrical Question?? |
1 If you really want to, put a switch in the wire marked F only... If you
want to shut off the alternator all you do is chop the power to the field
coils. Generally this is exactly what an overvoltage protection circuit
does.
2.you should have less than 5A in that circuit so AN22 ga. wire should
suffice
3. the main buss should be powered by the battery. I recommend using a relay
right on the battery box with a small fused wire (5A 22ga) feeding the
master switch which in turn energizes the master relay. The main buss
should also have the output of the Alternator, in your case 50A, feeding it.
(50 A breaker on 8ga wire). If you have a load meter then you can load your
system to 100% (50A) Without the load meter then 80% of the output of the
alternator is recommended as maximum installed load.
What I would do depends on a few different things. The type of airplane and
electrical lay out are a few of those things. Consider running a 0 ga wire
with say a 100 A fuse link in front of the master relay. That wire will go
directly to the large lug on your starter motor form there the 8ga. Wire
from the alternator and the 8ga wire to your main buss also is connected.
You could also power one side of your buss from the battery on one side and
form the alternator on the other side.
Get a copy of AC 43.13-1B/2A available online in PDF format and have a look
over chapter 11. More good ideas on how to do it safely than you can shake
a stick at.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SUE MICHAELS
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Electrical Question??
These question are to make me comfortable. I have read enough to contradict
my ever setup. I figured I would ask those who have built a nice but simple
setup that has worked.
1. ?? I want to the feed and to return the wire from the alternator to a
switch on the panel. 14 ? 16 ? 18 ? wire gauge for alternator wire. Should
the return wire connect directly to the battery? Cold side of master
solenoid (master off) or where? Should I fuse this? I have 50 amp
alternator.
2. ?? Master switch one wire goes Directly from the panel switch to the
Master solenoid (small connector) and the other to airframe ground. Wire
size ?? No fuse??
3. ?? Hot wire feed for the panel should come from where? Direct from
battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master off) ? The ignition switch ?
Or where? This should be fused I assume with maybe 40 amp since I have 50
amp alternator and many panel circuits.
Any other Ideas that don't blow a budget that has no funds left in it would
be greatly appreciated.
Thanks George
Message 20
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| Subject: | Breaker / switch question? |
Hmmmmm.
I bought my Model 3 kit in 1990 and it came with a pretty nice wiring di
agram that I just had to modify slightly for my application. It "may" ha
ve been produced by Rotax but it came with the Kitfox kit.
Rex in Michigan / 639 hours / 912 UL / Warp
-- Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com> wrote:
At 09:04 AM 3/16/2008, you wrote:
>Just curious, don't the Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagr
am?
HAHAHAHAHA! Hooo. Heee. (Eye wipe emoticon.) Sorry. Couldn't resist.
I can only hope John's improved this area of the manual.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Free information - Learn about the best Cell Phone Accessories. Click he
re.
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
Jon, Bless you for thinking of us old timers. Thanks,Don
In a message dated 3/16/2008 5:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
kaufjm@aol.com writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kaufjm@aol.com
Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories!
Jon Kaufmann
IV 1200 912ULS
Bettendorf IA.
Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back
to your
childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember
these, but
for the rest of you, it's a time capsule.
http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
Do not archive
**************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air |
I had a similar experience but much less dangerous when some type of turbo prop
plane returning after carrying jumpers decided to do what seemed like a full
power turn on the ramp. I anticipated something about to happen so I walked up
to my Fox and placed my foot on the tire just to keep it from rolling back.
Then all of a sudded the blast came and I'm almost sure the pilot side wheel
lifted off the ground. Fortunately a few other pilots close by saw what was beginning
to happed and came to assist. The other pilot, as in your case also,
had no response, if he knew at all.
SkySteve <Wilson@REinfo.org> wrote:
Hey Gary,
I just read the AOPA account of your prop wash adventures with a King Air. Sounds
scary. Nice "flying" though to stay safe!!
"Never Again Online: Propwash
By Guy Buchanan
E-mail the author at bnn@nethere.com."
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169820#169820
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
Donroutledge@aol.com wrote:
> Jon, Bless you for thinking of us old timers. Thanks,Don
>
> In a message dated 3/16/2008 5:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> kaufjm@aol.com writes:
>
>
>
> Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories!
>
> Jon Kaufmann
> IV 1200 912ULS
> Bettendorf IA.
> Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed
> back
> to your
> childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember
> these, but
> for the rest of you, it's a time capsule.
>
> http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
>
>
> Do not p; he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp;
> - List Contribution Web Site ;
> ========================
>
>
> Thanks John,,This brings back ol memories when I was a little
> boy..Dreaming of flying some day.may be this is where it all started
> for me...sitting in front of the old black+white TV.what a GREAT time
> I am having watching these tonight.all I need now is some pop corn.and
> I am 52yr,and I still have not grow up.just the price of my TOYS.and I
> am still dreaming of flying...John keep up the good work in finding
> these for us..I had a great time flying my KF today..and now watching
> these old shows of SKYKING..what a great day for me...Does not get any
> better than this....THANKS....Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
> <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air |
Mike Chaney wrote:
> I had a similar experience but much less dangerous when some type of
> turbo prop plane returning after carrying jumpers decided to do what
> seemed like a full power turn on the ramp. I anticipated something
> about to happen so I walked up to my Fox and placed my foot on the
> tire just to keep it from rolling back. Then all of a sudded the
> blast came and I'm almost sure the pilot side wheel lifted off the
> ground. Fortunately a few other pilots close by saw what was
> beginning to happed and came to assist. The other pilot, as in your
> case also, had no response, if he knew at all.
>
> */SkySteve <Wilson@REinfo.org>/* wrote:
>
>
> Hey Gary,
> I just read the AOPA account of your prop wash adventures with a
> King Air. Sounds scary. Nice "flying"
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
WOW,,sounds scarey..one day I had my KF sitting out by the pumps,and a
doctor with a R44.was going to fly his chopper up to the pumps.and was
in a hurry.he told me that my KF would be OK..and I told him NO WAY I
was going to let my KF sit there while he hovered to the pumps.to fill
up.he said it would not hurt..BULL SHIT I told him..it only weights 533#
emptly.I told him he was going to waite un till I moved it to a safer
location. good thing I did..but he was mad,that I moved it.I told him
that he could pay for it.if he fliped it.he did not say a world after
that to me...Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
> I did the vertical stabilizer and rudder mods to try to bring my plane more up
to date as long as I was doing the trigear mod. I guess I wouldn't consider
this a required mod, but knowing that it has historically been an issue and very
solvable, it just seemed like it should be done and the difference is VERY
noticeable.
>
Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet?
Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight
if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the process. 85DD
predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that
had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off?
I do stand to be corrected on his matter but I like to know how a KF 1 can now
have a gross weight changed from 850 to 1050 before the Kf 2 and 3 were produced.
One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a
modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would
be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170263#170263
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Dave,
> Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet?
>
I have just finished over an hour of taxiing and am getting ready for the first
flight as soon as the weather allows. The additional tail height has provided
very solid rudder authority starting at about 10 mph. As soon as I get rolling
I can feel the rudder effectiveness in steering the plane. When I would taxi
with the model I vertical stabilizer and rudder the plane did not respond
well on the ground. I am thinking that changing to the trigear may have helped
some also as the AOA is now much lower allowing the vertical stabilizer and
rudder to be up in the air and not blocked by the rest of the plane. Again, I'm
certainly no engineer, but this just seems logical to me.
> Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight
if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the process
I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company would not just write
down a false number. That would be very stupid and dangerous, not to mention
outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customers, but a huge liability
as well. And then to sell the plane with that misrepresentation. I hope
not. And of course we must also realize that the current Kitfox Aircraft Company
has been fully aware of the transaction for a couple of years now, and this
plane is very well known to them. If any of the above were to be shown to
be true I guess I would soon be the new owner of Kitfox Aircraft. The legal fiduciary
requirements to one's customers is paramount in the aircraft industry.
So, I am confident that all has been presented to me in a fully disclosed and
truthful manner. (Sorry about the rant, but I can't even imagine such fraud)
> 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that
had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off?
>
Sorry, but I am totally ignorant as to the history stated here.
> One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a
modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would
be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes.
Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, then I will look into
it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit?
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170269#170269
Message 27
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| Subject: | turtle deck cover |
I am sorry if the pictures get doubled up , I will be glad to answer any
questions .
Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
IMG_1056 (2)
Message 28
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When I first saw this program must have been close to the end of the series
around 1959. What is the twin with the radials?? Reminds me of a beech 18,
smaller with a single rudder.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kaufjm@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Sky King....
Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories!
Jon Kaufmann
IV 1200 912ULS
Bettendorf IA.
Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back
to your
childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember
these, but
for the rest of you, it's a time capsule.
http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
Do not archive
Message 29
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|
A short while ago one of the channels on satellite offered all westerns.
There were some really great shows from my childhood, which I had no problem
in watching again. Have Gun Will Travel, The Rifleman, Wanted Dead Or alive
with Steve McQueen, Hopalong Cassidy and my favourite... The Lone Ranger
with Clayton Moore and Jay Silverheels. Sure they are a bit hookey but
fifty years later I still get a thrill to hear" Hi-Yo silver Away!!!"
Watched 7 episodes of Sky king tonight... They're great.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
> Thanks John,,This brings back ol memories when I was a little
> boy..Dreaming of flying some day.may be this is where it all started
> for me...sitting in front of the old black+white TV.what a GREAT time
> I am having watching these tonight.all I need now is some pop corn.and
> I am 52yr,and I still have not grow up.just the price of my TOYS.and I
> am still dreaming of flying...John keep up the good work in finding
> these for us..I had a great time flying my KF today..and now watching
> these old shows of SKYKING..what a great day for me...Does not get any
> better than this....THANKS....Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
opps.. redundant link. sorry
2008/3/16 84KF <avidfox@gmail.com>:
> http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
Noel-
The starter breaker is only to protect the wire that runs from the 5
amp breaker behind the panel to the starter button. The only reason
that I used a 5 amp is because those particular breakers don't come
in anything less than that, and I wanted all the switches to look the
same. Probably a *real* electrical person would shudder at that
thought, but other people might not even have a breaker in that
application.
When they fail, I'll definitely junk 'em and replace. But in two
years of service, and 482 hours of operation, the one breaker has
only given me a problem that one time. And it opened as the result
of the sun beating on the black panel. And when it cooled, operation
was normal. But before it cooled and would stick closed on its own, I
just held it closed and hit the starter and it worked. No problems
since. Where I absolutely had to use a smaller breaker than the 5A.,
I used a fuse.
Lynn
On Mar 16, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Lynn:
>
> I quite agree with you about the breaker switches but It is true
> that if you are using the switches several times each day they will
> wear out and break open sooner and sooner. When that happens
> replace them. I am bit surprised that your starter energized
> draws close to five amps @ 12V I dont think mine draws a full amp.
>
>
> Ever notice the number of those switches used in commercial planes??
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
> Noel Loveys
>
> Campbellton, NL, Canada
>
> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
>
> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
>
> 582 B box, Ivo IFA, (out) Aerocet 1100 floats
>
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
>
>
>
>
> Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier
>
> said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that
>
> I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one
>
> of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit.
>
> (Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes
>
> to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held
>
> it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine.
>
> Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel,
>
> and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag,
>
> and all systems are go. It's never happened since then.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
> Grass Lake, Michigan
>
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>
> flying w/480+ hrs
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
>
> > <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> > We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV
>
> > world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them
>
> > either.
>
> >
>
> > Randy Lervold
>
> > www.rv-8.com
>
> > www.rv-3.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> to browse
>
> Un/Subscription,
>
> Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>
> more:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>
>
> Web Forums!
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> support!
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 582 Alternator |
The floats I have are Aerocet 1100s. They are a pretty slick glass float
with a decently deep keel to smooth out a few small waves. They are
available with Amphib gear but the amphibs are factory made not retro
fitted. They tell me that just about the only thing better for the back
woods are the Full Lotus floats but they are supposed to be draggy. Well
this little bird is pretty draggy any way so I can't see how that would
hurt. A plus for the Full Lotus is they can be very effective on packed
snow and ice... Apparently competing with skis.
As for fun the only thing that I got more of a thrill out of was a PA18 with
the optional 180 Hp engine. The thrill there was the feeling of having all
those horses cone to strain the reign. With two up we could have taken just
about anything that would fit inside or be tied to the outside of the plane.
The Kitfox is a great performer off the water but it is a smaller plane.
Neither plane is going to break any speed records except maybe it's own.
Conparing the planes the cub is a rough 4X4 Land Rover.. The 'Fox is a dirt
bike.
This winter I'm in the throes of swapping out my 582 grey head for a low
time 912. That will probably cost me a few feet getting off the water but I
should gain on climb which right now is just over 1000'/min at gross (950#)
Of course the four stroke engine should be a little easier on the go juice
too.
In summer of '09 I'm planning a true Trans Canada trip from ocean to ocean
and return to commemorate Newfoundland being part of the Canadian
confederation for sixty years. That is the reason for the engine swap to
help get me through the mountains on the other side of the country.
Right now at gross weight (where I've been doing most of my flying) the
plane is off in around ten seconds or less it lands in near glassy
conditions in less than 500'. As i burn off fuel it lands and takes off even
shorter.
About the only thing I can think of better for fishing is a canoe and the
'Fox is a bit too light to stick one on the struts. I think there is a guy
on this list who used to carry a kayak on his plane... I may give that a
try.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator
Thank Noel;
I have already installed a battery relay (from Aircraft Spruce; pricey but
certified) and am wiring the plane to accepted aircraft standards. Thanks
for clarifying the nature of the "alternator" in the Rotax. I'll run the
red wire through the alt switch and ensure that it is always on unless the
engine is off.
As for the diagram, I've been following a generic diagram in Tony
Gengelis's book Firewall Forward, with modifications for my individual
loads. I have however been drawing it out as I install wires. As for loads,
I have; nav lights, tip strobes, transponder, heater fan, Icom handheld
radio, and Garmin 296 GPS. The GPS and the radio both have internal
batteries and, even though they are being wired into the panel, they should
not be a large load for the endurance the aircraft has.
I see from your pic that you are flying floats. I am interested in amphib
floats but am concerned about the weight. Can you give me an idea about the
performance you get from your plane on floats??
Cheers
Ken
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170226#170226
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
I just was looking at John's website and reading about the changes that wer
e made in the model 2 to make it 950 gross weight, and then the additional
changes made to the Kitfox 3 to make it 1050 gross weight. If you look at
the bottom of the page it lists the different models. Different spars, hea
vier carrythroughs, ect. I know also another difference in the 1 to the 3
is the diaganal braceing in the wings. The 1 had 1/8" smaller diameter tub
es. I have a set of Kitfox 1 wings in my hangar and used to have a Kitfox
3 project. Ones used a different stiffener in the wing than the 3. The 1
also had shorter struts than the 3 so more wing is out beyond the strut att
ach point on it than the 3. I don't know how this factored into the higher
gross weights though. Jim Chuk Avids Mn> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tric
ycle Kitfox II-Reminder> From: Wilson@REinfo.org> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18
:49:07 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message post
ed by: "SkySteve" <Wilson@REinfo.org>> > Dave,> > > Steve, What has change
with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet? > > > > > I have jus
t finished over an hour of taxiing and am getting ready for the first fligh
t as soon as the weather allows. The additional tail height has provided ve
ry solid rudder authority starting at about 10 mph. As soon as I get rollin
g I can feel the rudder effectiveness in steering the plane. When I would t
axi with the model I vertical stabilizer and rudder the plane did not respo
nd well on the ground. I am thinking that changing to the trigear may have
helped some also as the AOA is now much lower allowing the vertical stabili
zer and rudder to be up in the air and not blocked by the rest of the plane
. Again, I'm certainly no engineer, but this just seems logical to me.> > >
> Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross
weight if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the p
rocess> > I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company wou
ld not just write down a false number. That would be very stupid and danger
ous, not to mention outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customer
s, but a huge liability as well. And then to sell the plane with that misre
presentation. I hope not. And of course we must also realize that the curre
nt Kitfox Aircraft Company has been fully aware of the transaction for a co
uple of years now, and this plane is very well known to them. If any of the
above were to be shown to be true I guess I would soon be the new owner of
Kitfox Aircraft. The legal fiduciary requirements to one's customers is pa
ramount in the aircraft industry. So, I am confident that all has been pres
ented to me in a fully disclosed and truthful manner. (Sorry about the rant
, but I can't even imagine such fraud)> > > > 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Do
es anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that had the wing attach points
at the longerons torn off? > > > > Sorry, but I am totally ignorant as to
the history stated here.> > > > > > One more thing you might want to do it
to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a modifed mixer kit that will give you
flapperon differential. That to me would be a definate must do for older K
itfoxes. > > Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, th
en I will look into it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit?> > -------
-> Steve Wilson> Huntsville, UT> Kitfox I-IV 85DD> 912A / 3 Blade Warp Driv
e > Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel> > > > > Read this topic online h
ere:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170269#170269> > > >
===> > >
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