---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/16/08: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:40 AM - Re: Breaker / switch question? (Ken Potter) 2. 04:46 AM - Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jose M. Toro) 4. 06:31 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (dave) 5. 06:41 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve) 6. 07:01 AM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter) 7. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Noel Loveys) 8. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Noel Loveys) 9. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Randy Lervold) 10. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (patrick reilly) 11. 11:48 AM - Emailing: IMG_1058 (DeWayne Clifford) 12. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Lynn Matteson) 13. 12:30 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Randy Lervold) 14. 02:53 PM - Electrical Question?? (SUE MICHAELS) 15. 03:03 PM - Sky King.... (kaufjm@aol.com) 16. 03:07 PM - Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Ken Potter) 17. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Noel Loveys) 18. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Guy Buchanan) 19. 04:43 PM - Re: Electrical Question?? (Noel Loveys) 20. 05:10 PM - Breaker / switch question? (Rexster) 21. 05:11 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Donroutledge@aol.com) 22. 05:45 PM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (Mike Chaney) 23. 05:58 PM - Re: Sky King.... (steve shinabery) 24. 06:06 PM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (steve shinabery) 25. 06:19 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (dave) 26. 06:51 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve) 27. 07:27 PM - turtle deck cover (DeWayne Clifford) 28. 08:13 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Noel Loveys) 29. 08:24 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Noel Loveys) 30. 08:32 PM - Re: Sky King.... (84KF) 31. 08:36 PM - Re: Sky King.... (84KF) 32. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Lynn Matteson) 33. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator (Noel Loveys) 34. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:26 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? From: "Ken Potter" The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate switchs. Cheers Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170139#170139 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 582 Alternator From: "Ken Potter" Hi Folks; I am currently wiring my Kitfox II which has a Rotax 582 with internal alternator. I would like to install an Alt/Bat split switch but cannot figure out which wire coming out of the alternator to the regulator is the field wire. Can anyone help me out?? Cheers Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170141#170141 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:05 AM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder Steve: I remember your plane on the Dan Denney brochures. Never thought it could look so beautiful as a tricycle. After studying the pictures I still have a couple of questions. Do you have a picture showing the Grove gear attached to the fuelage? Our model II fuselage has a clip right under the wing lift strut attachment which, in my opinion, is not as strong as the two clips that attach the traditional landing gear in the taildragger position. I would like to confirm that this is the rear clip that you mention. Do you think that extending the rudder of your plane was a requirement of the conversion or just an enhancement? I owned this model II for ten years (1997-2007) and always thought the rudder authority was adequate (enough). After seen your pictures, "my" plane's new owner became convinced that this is the direction he wants to move. I didn't mention on my original e-mail that the plane is now under repair after a groundloop that caused considerable damage under the seat and at the tailwheel attachment. Thanks for your support! Jose ----- Original Message ---- From: SkySteve Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 1:49:51 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder Jose, Here are some photos I have that may help. The grove gear should be attached to the rear clips on the airframe. It comes with attachment plates to attach it to those rear clips. If your airframe doesn't have rear clips, John McBean sells them. I purchased some from him just in case mine needed to be moved to a different location. They did not need to be moved. McBean also sells the complete (wheel & tire included) nose wheel assembly which comes with detailed instructions of how to install. I purchased mine from him. Also, note on photo #6 the addition of height to the vertical stabilizer and the addition of a Model IV rudder. This has really helped give good rudder authority which I found out after purchasing my Model I was one of the major problems that was addressed in later models and finally fixed in the model IV. Please understand I am not a builder nor am I an engineer and I have no knowledge in airplane design. I just listen to others well. I hope this info is of help to you. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170034#170034 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_139.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_new_main_and_tundra_tires_1__10_3_2007_346.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0520_200.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0549_156.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0552_886.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/10_29_2007_168.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_i_iv_small_112.jpg Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:59 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator From: "dave" Ken, You should have 2 yellow wires, one will have a black stripe. these are both AC voltage and go to your regulator. The regulator is also a rectifier which converts AC to DC. Although I am a Rotax dealer , I would suggest that a Key west regulator is a better option fora more constant voltage and liklley a cleaner voltage. 1-866-418-4164 toll free http://www.rotaxservices.com/ If you order ,tell Bob you came from this site. They will be some give-a-aways to web traffic there soon. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170151#170151 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder From: "SkySteve" Jose, Thanks. I kind of like the looks of it myself. The rear clip position you refer to is where my new Grove gear is attached. My rear clips are the same as the front clips. When my plane was on floats, I think this is where the floats attach also. See attached photo of new main gear attachment. I did the vertical stabilizer and rudder mods to try to bring my plane more up to date as long as I was doing the trigear mod. I guess I wouldn't consider this a required mod, but knowing that it has historically been an issue and very solvable, it just seemed like it should be done and the difference is VERY noticeable. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170153#170153 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/85dd_new_main_and_tundra_tires2_10_3_2007_177.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:12 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator From: "Ken Potter" Thanks Dave; I have the regulator installed with the two yellow wires as per the Rotax wiring diagram. Can I lead one of these wires to the alt switch and then back to the regulator?? Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170156#170156 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:14 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? There is a convention that says to put the breaker as close to the busses as possible. Attached directly to the buss is good. I also have a relay at the battery to protect the whole system from a short. Noel Loveys AME Intern, RPP Kitfox III-A, 582,B box going to 912 Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:07 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate switchs. Cheers Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170139#170139 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:26 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator First of all the 582 strictly speaking has a magneto, not an alternator with a proper field coil, so it always puts out 100% the power it can for a given RPM. Personally I wouldn't cut into the AC (Y/Bk tracer) wires going to the Rectifier/Regulator. You will find a heavier wire, probably red, which goes from the Rectifier/Regulator through the firewall to the main buss. That is the wire I'd cut the ALT switch into. To take pressure off the Rectifier/Regulator the only time I'd turn that switch off is when the engine is stopped, in an emergency or an overvoltage situation. Turning it off as a normal part of flight could damage the Rectifier/regulator. The battery switch is another quintal of fish! Having a big wire running from your battery through this switch to the main buss and the starter is going to prove two things... An increase in weight (big wire) and a honkin' big current running through your panel. Neither of these are what I would call desirable. I installed a battery relay in my plane right at the battery. Doing this allows me to control the battery connection to the buss with a very low (2A could be 1A fused) current. It also allows me to isolate the whole of the electrical system from the battery in case of an emergency. Wiring a relay in is no big deal just make sure you get the relay like the ones they use for additional batteries in trailers and RVs NOT a starter relay. Starter relays will heat up in less than a minute. They both cost the low side of $10.00 They can be wired to activate with the control to ground or voltage positive to the control lug. I wired mine to activate with a ground (less wire) but with two small leads I could have wired it for a positive fused 1 or 2A fed directly from the battery. Doing it that way protects the battery from switching live in the case of a short circuit on the control line like is possible in a fire. It's good to be aware that the output of the 582 magneto is only 16A so it's a good idea to keep a close eye on how much drain you put on it. Eg radios,T&B, Nav lights, Strobes and a GPS may not leave enough power to operate landing lights. Finally do yourself a favour. Make a detailed drawing of exactly what you install. Where all the connectors, fuses,breakers and switches are. Yes it's a real pain in the butt to make one but if you ever decide to change or install something it will save you a lot of time and if you ever sell your plane...Wow! Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator Thanks Dave; I have the regulator installed with the two yellow wires as per the Rotax wiring diagram. Can I lead one of these wires to the alt switch and then back to the regulator?? Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170156#170156 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:29 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Potter" > The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring > diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to > wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate > switchs. Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but a two time RV builder. We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them either. Just curious, don't the Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram? Using breakers with separate switches will work fine but you're introducing at least two additional connections one more device into each circuit and they are each a potential failure point. Here's a pic of breaker/switches used for lighting... http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg And here's a pic of them used similarly in a panel (right hand side)... http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinished1.jpg Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to", Bob Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on experimental aircraft wiring. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com www.rv-3.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:50 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Randy, I am an RV "lurker" and am rebuilding a Mod 3 Kitfox that was origin ally built in 93. It was hit by a car while on a trailer. Good to have an R V'er on board. I figure the Kitfox is a low and slow bush plane and the RV a get up and go plane for cross counrty. Airplanes are like automobiles or motorcycles. They have a designated use and envelope of performance. Compro mise to accomplish it all just doesn't work. Although, I just found out the Kitfox 7 with a 914 Turbo will cruise at 150 mph. I'd really love to have an RV 4. I "lurk" on Van's Airforce and Barnstormers for a deal on an RV 4 with damage or no engine. I missed an RV 4, no fwf for $7000. Sold 1st day. I wonder why? Anyway, welcome aboard. What is your location? This site is the motherlode of Kitfox info. Do not archieve Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL> From: randy@romeolima.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Sub ject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 20 ndy@romeolima.com>> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Potter" > > The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a numbe r of generic wiring > > diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am u sing one of them to > > wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon brea kers with separate > > switchs.> > Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but a two time RV builder. We use > Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the t ime in the RV world and they work > fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them either. Just curious, don't the > Kitfox plans come with a suggested w iring diagram? Using breakers with > separate switches will work fine but y ou're introducing at least two > additional connections one more device int o each circuit and they are each a > potential failure point.> > Here's a p ic of breaker/switches used for lighting...> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq /Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg> > And here's a pic of them used similarly in a pa nel (right hand side)...> http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinish ed1.jpg> > Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to", Bob > Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on experi mental > aircraft wiring.> > Randy Lervold> www.rv-8.com> www.rv-3.com> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:23 AM PST US From: "DeWayne Clifford" Subject: Kitfox-List: Emailing: IMG_1058 I'll take some installed pictures Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: IMG_1058 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:12 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit. (Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine. Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel, and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag, and all systems are go. It's never happened since then. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote: > > We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV > world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them > either. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-8.com > www.rv-3.com > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:09 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Thanks Pat, I'm up in the Portland, Oregon area, Van's back yard. I plan to start a Super Sport soon. Just let me know if I can help with anything, I'm an active EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor as well. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: patrick reilly To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:35 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Randy, I am an RV "lurker" and am rebuilding a Mod 3 Kitfox that was originally built in 93. It was hit by a car while on a trailer. Good to have an RV'er on board. I figure the Kitfox is a low and slow bush plane and the RV a get up and go plane for cross counrty. Airplanes are like automobiles or motorcycles. They have a designated use and envelope of performance. Compromise to accomplish it all just doesn't work. Although, I just found out the Kitfox 7 with a 914 Turbo will cruise at 150 mph. I'd really love to have an RV 4. I "lurk" on Van's Airforce and Barnstormers for a deal on an RV 4 with damage or no engine. I missed an RV 4, no fwf for $7000. Sold 1st day. I wonder why? Anyway, welcome aboard. What is your location? This site is the motherlode of Kitfox info. Do not archieve Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL > From: randy@romeolima.com > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:04:43 -0700 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Potter" > > The Tony Bingelis book Firewall Forward has a number of generic wiring > > diagrams. They range from simple to complex. I am using one of them to > > wire my Kitfox II right now. I am using Klixon breakers with separate > > switchs. > > Guys, I'm a Kitfox lurker right now but a two time RV builder. We use > Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV world and they work > fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them either. Just curious, don't the > Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram? Using breakers with > separate switches will work fine but you're introducing at least two > additional connections one more device into each circuit and they are each a > potential failure point. > > Here's a pic of breaker/switches used for lighting... > http://www.romeolima.com/RV3hq/Electrical/DSC_1627.jpg > > And here's a pic of them used similarly in a panel (right hand side)... > http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/PanelFinished1.jpg > > Although it is a bit theoretical and not necessarily a "how to", Bob > Nuckoll's AeroElectric Connections is considered the bible on experimental > aircraft wiring. > > Randy Ler============== > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:31 PM PST US From: SUE MICHAELS Subject: Kitfox-List: Electrical Question?? These question are to make me comfortable. I have read enough to contradict my ever setup. I figured I would ask those who have built a nice but simple setup that has worked. 1. ?? I want to the feed and to return the wire from the alternator to a switch on the panel. 14 ? 16 ? 18 ? wire gauge for alternator wire. Should the return wire connect directly to the battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master off) or where? Should I fuse this? I have 50 amp alternator. 2. ?? Master switch one wire goes Directly from the panel switch to the Master solenoid (small connector) and the other to airframe ground. Wire size ?? No fuse?? 3. ?? Hot wire feed for the panel should come from where? Direct from battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master off) ? The ignition switch ? Or where? This should be fused I assume with maybe 40 amp since I have 50 amp alternator and many panel circuits. Any other Ideas that don't blow a budget that has no funds left in it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks George ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:18 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... From: kaufjm@aol.com Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories! Jon Kaufmann IV 1200 912ULS Bettendorf IA. Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back to your childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember these, but for the rest of you, it's a time capsule. http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:26 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator From: "Ken Potter" Thank Noel; I have already installed a battery relay (from Aircraft Spruce; pricey but certified) and am wiring the plane to accepted aircraft standards. Thanks for clarifying the nature of the "alternator" in the Rotax. I'll run the red wire through the alt switch and ensure that it is always on unless the engine is off. As for the diagram, I've been following a generic diagram in Tony Gengelis's book Firewall Forward, with modifications for my individual loads. I have however been drawing it out as I install wires. As for loads, I have; nav lights, tip strobes, transponder, heater fan, Icom handheld radio, and Garmin 296 GPS. The GPS and the radio both have internal batteries and, even though they are being wired into the panel, they should not be a large load for the endurance the aircraft has. I see from your pic that you are flying floats. I am interested in amphib floats but am concerned about the weight. Can you give me an idea about the performance you get from your plane on floats?? Cheers Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170226#170226 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:06 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Lynn: I quite agree with you about the breaker switches but It is true that if you are using the switches several times each day they will wear out and break open sooner and sooner. When that happens replace them. I am bit surprised that your starter energized draws close to five amps @ 12V I don't think mine draws a full amp. Ever notice the number of those switches used in commercial planes?? Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, (out) Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit. (Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine. Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel, and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag, and all systems are go. It's never happened since then. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote: > > We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV > world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them > either. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-8.com > www.rv-3.com > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:27 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? At 09:04 AM 3/16/2008, you wrote: >Just curious, don't the Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagram? HAHAHAHAHA! Hooo. Heee. (Eye wipe emoticon.) Sorry. Couldn't resist. I can only hope John's improved this area of the manual. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:52 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Electrical Question?? 1 If you really want to, put a switch in the wire marked F only... If you want to shut off the alternator all you do is chop the power to the field coils. Generally this is exactly what an overvoltage protection circuit does. 2.you should have less than 5A in that circuit so AN22 ga. wire should suffice 3. the main buss should be powered by the battery. I recommend using a relay right on the battery box with a small fused wire (5A 22ga) feeding the master switch which in turn energizes the master relay. The main buss should also have the output of the Alternator, in your case 50A, feeding it. (50 A breaker on 8ga wire). If you have a load meter then you can load your system to 100% (50A) Without the load meter then 80% of the output of the alternator is recommended as maximum installed load. What I would do depends on a few different things. The type of airplane and electrical lay out are a few of those things. Consider running a 0 ga wire with say a 100 A fuse link in front of the master relay. That wire will go directly to the large lug on your starter motor form there the 8ga. Wire from the alternator and the 8ga wire to your main buss also is connected. You could also power one side of your buss from the battery on one side and form the alternator on the other side. Get a copy of AC 43.13-1B/2A available online in PDF format and have a look over chapter 11. More good ideas on how to do it safely than you can shake a stick at. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SUE MICHAELS Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:20 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Electrical Question?? These question are to make me comfortable. I have read enough to contradict my ever setup. I figured I would ask those who have built a nice but simple setup that has worked. 1. ?? I want to the feed and to return the wire from the alternator to a switch on the panel. 14 ? 16 ? 18 ? wire gauge for alternator wire. Should the return wire connect directly to the battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master off) or where? Should I fuse this? I have 50 amp alternator. 2. ?? Master switch one wire goes Directly from the panel switch to the Master solenoid (small connector) and the other to airframe ground. Wire size ?? No fuse?? 3. ?? Hot wire feed for the panel should come from where? Direct from battery? Cold side of master solenoid (master off) ? The ignition switch ? Or where? This should be fused I assume with maybe 40 amp since I have 50 amp alternator and many panel circuits. Any other Ideas that don't blow a budget that has no funds left in it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks George ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:18 PM PST US From: "Rexster" Subject: Kitfox-List: Breaker / switch question? Hmmmmm. I bought my Model 3 kit in 1990 and it came with a pretty nice wiring di agram that I just had to modify slightly for my application. It "may" ha ve been produced by Rotax but it came with the Kitfox kit. Rex in Michigan / 639 hours / 912 UL / Warp -- Guy Buchanan wrote: At 09:04 AM 3/16/2008, you wrote: >Just curious, don't the Kitfox plans come with a suggested wiring diagr am? HAHAHAHAHA! Hooo. Heee. (Eye wipe emoticon.) Sorry. Couldn't resist. I can only hope John's improved this area of the manual. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Free information - Learn about the best Cell Phone Accessories. Click he re. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nRZ6g7CSu4PxAVPIJnr7I 9EPSzAvUkMLGHXNFj6KbKKzEw7/ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:02 PM PST US From: Donroutledge@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... Jon, Bless you for thinking of us old timers. Thanks,Don In a message dated 3/16/2008 5:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, kaufjm@aol.com writes: --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kaufjm@aol.com Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories! Jon Kaufmann IV 1200 912ULS Bettendorf IA. Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back to your childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember these, but for the rest of you, it's a time capsule. http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp Do not archive **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:34 PM PST US From: Mike Chaney Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air I had a similar experience but much less dangerous when some type of turbo prop plane returning after carrying jumpers decided to do what seemed like a full power turn on the ramp. I anticipated something about to happen so I walked up to my Fox and placed my foot on the tire just to keep it from rolling back. Then all of a sudded the blast came and I'm almost sure the pilot side wheel lifted off the ground. Fortunately a few other pilots close by saw what was beginning to happed and came to assist. The other pilot, as in your case also, had no response, if he knew at all. SkySteve wrote: Hey Gary, I just read the AOPA account of your prop wash adventures with a King Air. Sounds scary. Nice "flying" though to stay safe!! "Never Again Online: Propwash By Guy Buchanan E-mail the author at bnn@nethere.com." -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=169820#169820 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:15 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... Donroutledge@aol.com wrote: > Jon, Bless you for thinking of us old timers. Thanks,Don > > In a message dated 3/16/2008 5:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > kaufjm@aol.com writes: > > > > Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories! > > Jon Kaufmann > IV 1200 912ULS > Bettendorf IA. > Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed > back > to your > childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember > these, but > for the rest of you, it's a time capsule. > > http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp > > > Do not p; he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; > - List Contribution Web Site ; > ======================== > > > Thanks John,,This brings back ol memories when I was a little > boy..Dreaming of flying some day.may be this is where it all started > for me...sitting in front of the old black+white TV.what a GREAT time > I am having watching these tonight.all I need now is some pop corn.and > I am 52yr,and I still have not grow up.just the price of my TOYS.and I > am still dreaming of flying...John keep up the good work in finding > these for us..I had a great time flying my KF today..and now watching > these old shows of SKYKING..what a great day for me...Does not get any > better than this....THANKS....Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:25 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air Mike Chaney wrote: > I had a similar experience but much less dangerous when some type of > turbo prop plane returning after carrying jumpers decided to do what > seemed like a full power turn on the ramp. I anticipated something > about to happen so I walked up to my Fox and placed my foot on the > tire just to keep it from rolling back. Then all of a sudded the > blast came and I'm almost sure the pilot side wheel lifted off the > ground. Fortunately a few other pilots close by saw what was > beginning to happed and came to assist. The other pilot, as in your > case also, had no response, if he knew at all. > > */SkySteve /* wrote: > > > Hey Gary, > I just read the AOPA account of your prop wash adventures with a > King Air. Sounds scary. Nice "flying" > > * > > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > > WOW,,sounds scarey..one day I had my KF sitting out by the pumps,and a doctor with a R44.was going to fly his chopper up to the pumps.and was in a hurry.he told me that my KF would be OK..and I told him NO WAY I was going to let my KF sit there while he hovered to the pumps.to fill up.he said it would not hurt..BULL SHIT I told him..it only weights 533# emptly.I told him he was going to waite un till I moved it to a safer location. good thing I did..but he was mad,that I moved it.I told him that he could pay for it.if he fliped it.he did not say a world after that to me...Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:16 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder From: "dave" > I did the vertical stabilizer and rudder mods to try to bring my plane more up to date as long as I was doing the trigear mod. I guess I wouldn't consider this a required mod, but knowing that it has historically been an issue and very solvable, it just seemed like it should be done and the difference is VERY noticeable. > Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet? Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the process. 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off? I do stand to be corrected on his matter but I like to know how a KF 1 can now have a gross weight changed from 850 to 1050 before the Kf 2 and 3 were produced. One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170263#170263 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder From: "SkySteve" Dave, > Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet? > I have just finished over an hour of taxiing and am getting ready for the first flight as soon as the weather allows. The additional tail height has provided very solid rudder authority starting at about 10 mph. As soon as I get rolling I can feel the rudder effectiveness in steering the plane. When I would taxi with the model I vertical stabilizer and rudder the plane did not respond well on the ground. I am thinking that changing to the trigear may have helped some also as the AOA is now much lower allowing the vertical stabilizer and rudder to be up in the air and not blocked by the rest of the plane. Again, I'm certainly no engineer, but this just seems logical to me. > Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the process I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company would not just write down a false number. That would be very stupid and dangerous, not to mention outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customers, but a huge liability as well. And then to sell the plane with that misrepresentation. I hope not. And of course we must also realize that the current Kitfox Aircraft Company has been fully aware of the transaction for a couple of years now, and this plane is very well known to them. If any of the above were to be shown to be true I guess I would soon be the new owner of Kitfox Aircraft. The legal fiduciary requirements to one's customers is paramount in the aircraft industry. So, I am confident that all has been presented to me in a fully disclosed and truthful manner. (Sorry about the rant, but I can't even imagine such fraud) > 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off? > Sorry, but I am totally ignorant as to the history stated here. > One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes. Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, then I will look into it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit? -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170269#170269 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:11 PM PST US From: "DeWayne Clifford" Subject: Kitfox-List: turtle deck cover I am sorry if the pictures get doubled up , I will be glad to answer any questions . Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: IMG_1056 (2) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:07 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... When I first saw this program must have been close to the end of the series around 1959. What is the twin with the radials?? Reminds me of a beech 18, smaller with a single rudder. Noel Loveys AME Intern, RPP Kitfox III-A, 582,B box Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kaufjm@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... Sky King....Boy, does this bring back memories! Jon Kaufmann IV 1200 912ULS Bettendorf IA. Click on any one of these episodes & be prepared to be transformed back to your childhood. Some of you will probably be too young to even remember these, but for the rest of you, it's a time capsule. http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp Do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:41 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... A short while ago one of the channels on satellite offered all westerns. There were some really great shows from my childhood, which I had no problem in watching again. Have Gun Will Travel, The Rifleman, Wanted Dead Or alive with Steve McQueen, Hopalong Cassidy and my favourite... The Lone Ranger with Clayton Moore and Jay Silverheels. Sure they are a bit hookey but fifty years later I still get a thrill to hear" Hi-Yo silver Away!!!" Watched 7 episodes of Sky king tonight... They're great. Noel Loveys AME Intern, RPP Kitfox III-A, 582,B box Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats > Thanks John,,This brings back ol memories when I was a little > boy..Dreaming of flying some day.may be this is where it all started > for me...sitting in front of the old black+white TV.what a GREAT time > I am having watching these tonight.all I need now is some pop corn.and > I am 52yr,and I still have not grow up.just the price of my TOYS.and I > am still dreaming of flying...John keep up the good work in finding > these for us..I had a great time flying my KF today..and now watching > these old shows of SKYKING..what a great day for me...Does not get any > better than this....THANKS....Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:51 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:57 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Sky King.... opps.. redundant link. sorry 2008/3/16 84KF : > http://www.americanflyers.net/entertainment/skyking.asp > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:31 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? Noel- The starter breaker is only to protect the wire that runs from the 5 amp breaker behind the panel to the starter button. The only reason that I used a 5 amp is because those particular breakers don't come in anything less than that, and I wanted all the switches to look the same. Probably a *real* electrical person would shudder at that thought, but other people might not even have a breaker in that application. When they fail, I'll definitely junk 'em and replace. But in two years of service, and 482 hours of operation, the one breaker has only given me a problem that one time. And it opened as the result of the sun beating on the black panel. And when it cooled, operation was normal. But before it cooled and would stick closed on its own, I just held it closed and hit the starter and it worked. No problems since. Where I absolutely had to use a smaller breaker than the 5A., I used a fuse. Lynn On Mar 16, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Lynn: > > I quite agree with you about the breaker switches but It is true > that if you are using the switches several times each day they will > wear out and break open sooner and sooner. When that happens > replace them. I am bit surprised that your starter energized > draws close to five amps @ 12V I dont think mine draws a full amp. > > > Ever notice the number of those switches used in commercial planes?? > > > > > > Noel Loveys > > Campbellton, NL, Canada > > CDN AME intern, PP-Rec > > C-FINB, Kitfox III-A > > 582 B box, Ivo IFA, (out) Aerocet 1100 floats > > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:48 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question? > > > > > Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier > > said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that > > I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one > > of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit. > > (Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes > > to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held > > it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine. > > Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel, > > and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag, > > and all systems are go. It's never happened since then. > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/480+ hrs > > > On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote: > > > > > > > > We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV > > > world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them > > > either. > > > > > > Randy Lervold > > > www.rv-8.com > > > www.rv-3.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to browse > > Un/Subscription, > > Browse, Chat, FAQ, > > more: > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > > > Web Forums! > > http://forums.matronics.com > > > support! > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:44 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator The floats I have are Aerocet 1100s. They are a pretty slick glass float with a decently deep keel to smooth out a few small waves. They are available with Amphib gear but the amphibs are factory made not retro fitted. They tell me that just about the only thing better for the back woods are the Full Lotus floats but they are supposed to be draggy. Well this little bird is pretty draggy any way so I can't see how that would hurt. A plus for the Full Lotus is they can be very effective on packed snow and ice... Apparently competing with skis. As for fun the only thing that I got more of a thrill out of was a PA18 with the optional 180 Hp engine. The thrill there was the feeling of having all those horses cone to strain the reign. With two up we could have taken just about anything that would fit inside or be tied to the outside of the plane. The Kitfox is a great performer off the water but it is a smaller plane. Neither plane is going to break any speed records except maybe it's own. Conparing the planes the cub is a rough 4X4 Land Rover.. The 'Fox is a dirt bike. This winter I'm in the throes of swapping out my 582 grey head for a low time 912. That will probably cost me a few feet getting off the water but I should gain on climb which right now is just over 1000'/min at gross (950#) Of course the four stroke engine should be a little easier on the go juice too. In summer of '09 I'm planning a true Trans Canada trip from ocean to ocean and return to commemorate Newfoundland being part of the Canadian confederation for sixty years. That is the reason for the engine swap to help get me through the mountains on the other side of the country. Right now at gross weight (where I've been doing most of my flying) the plane is off in around ten seconds or less it lands in near glassy conditions in less than 500'. As i burn off fuel it lands and takes off even shorter. About the only thing I can think of better for fishing is a canoe and the 'Fox is a bit too light to stick one on the struts. I think there is a guy on this list who used to carry a kayak on his plane... I may give that a try. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Potter Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:35 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 582 Alternator Thank Noel; I have already installed a battery relay (from Aircraft Spruce; pricey but certified) and am wiring the plane to accepted aircraft standards. Thanks for clarifying the nature of the "alternator" in the Rotax. I'll run the red wire through the alt switch and ensure that it is always on unless the engine is off. As for the diagram, I've been following a generic diagram in Tony Gengelis's book Firewall Forward, with modifications for my individual loads. I have however been drawing it out as I install wires. As for loads, I have; nav lights, tip strobes, transponder, heater fan, Icom handheld radio, and Garmin 296 GPS. The GPS and the radio both have internal batteries and, even though they are being wired into the panel, they should not be a large load for the endurance the aircraft has. I see from your pic that you are flying floats. I am interested in amphib floats but am concerned about the weight. Can you give me an idea about the performance you get from your plane on floats?? Cheers Ken Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170226#170226 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:03 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder I just was looking at John's website and reading about the changes that wer e made in the model 2 to make it 950 gross weight, and then the additional changes made to the Kitfox 3 to make it 1050 gross weight. If you look at the bottom of the page it lists the different models. Different spars, hea vier carrythroughs, ect. I know also another difference in the 1 to the 3 is the diaganal braceing in the wings. The 1 had 1/8" smaller diameter tub es. I have a set of Kitfox 1 wings in my hangar and used to have a Kitfox 3 project. Ones used a different stiffener in the wing than the 3. The 1 also had shorter struts than the 3 so more wing is out beyond the strut att ach point on it than the 3. I don't know how this factored into the higher gross weights though. Jim Chuk Avids Mn> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tric ycle Kitfox II-Reminder> From: Wilson@REinfo.org> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18 :49:07 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message post ed by: "SkySteve" > > Dave,> > > Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet? > > > > > I have jus t finished over an hour of taxiing and am getting ready for the first fligh t as soon as the weather allows. The additional tail height has provided ve ry solid rudder authority starting at about 10 mph. As soon as I get rollin g I can feel the rudder effectiveness in steering the plane. When I would t axi with the model I vertical stabilizer and rudder the plane did not respo nd well on the ground. I am thinking that changing to the trigear may have helped some also as the AOA is now much lower allowing the vertical stabili zer and rudder to be up in the air and not blocked by the rest of the plane . Again, I'm certainly no engineer, but this just seems logical to me.> > > > Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the p rocess> > I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company wou ld not just write down a false number. That would be very stupid and danger ous, not to mention outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customer s, but a huge liability as well. And then to sell the plane with that misre presentation. I hope not. And of course we must also realize that the curre nt Kitfox Aircraft Company has been fully aware of the transaction for a co uple of years now, and this plane is very well known to them. If any of the above were to be shown to be true I guess I would soon be the new owner of Kitfox Aircraft. The legal fiduciary requirements to one's customers is pa ramount in the aircraft industry. So, I am confident that all has been pres ented to me in a fully disclosed and truthful manner. (Sorry about the rant , but I can't even imagine such fraud)> > > > 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Do es anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off? > > > > Sorry, but I am totally ignorant as to the history stated here.> > > > > > One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would be a definate must do for older K itfoxes. > > Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, th en I will look into it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit?> > ------- -> Steve Wilson> Huntsville, UT> Kitfox I-IV 85DD> 912A / 3 Blade Warp Driv e > Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel> > > > > Read this topic online h ere:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170269#170269> > > > ===> > > _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g ive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.