Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (dave)
2. 01:04 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (dave)
3. 02:19 AM - Re: Sky King.... (rudderdancer)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Rick Spriggle)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jose M. Toro)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Jose M. Toro)
7. 07:12 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve)
9. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (Rexinator)
10. 07:43 AM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (SkySteve)
11. 08:36 AM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (Guy Buchanan)
12. 09:51 AM - Re: Sky King....Sky King.... (George Wells)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: Tru-Trak Autopilot in S5/Vixen (FlyboyTR)
14. 02:45 PM - KitFox ASI on EBAY (Don G)
15. 06:45 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Noel Loveys)
16. 06:48 PM - Re: KitFox ASI on EBAY (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
17. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: Breaker / switch question? (Noel Loveys)
18. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Sky King.... (Noel Loveys)
19. 08:02 PM - Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air (Noel Loveys)
20. 08:08 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (SkySteve)
21. 08:23 PM - Re: Sky King.... (Don G)
22. 08:32 PM - Re: Rotax 912 80HP Idle RPM (Don G)
23. 10:55 PM - Onus or Otis? (Rexinator)
24. 11:14 PM - Compass Question (Andy Fultz)
25. 11:17 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder (Frank Miles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
> I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company would not just
write down a false number. That would be very stupid and dangerous, not to mention
outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customers, but a huge liability
as well. And then to sell the plane with that misrepresentation.
Well correct me if I am wrong but the builder can decide the gross weight for registration.
But if it is a Model 1 then it was published at 850 gross. Model
2 950 and Model 3 at 1050 gross.
What is your wing strut diameter ?
> Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, then I will look
into it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit?
I would ask John how you would benefit as he sells the mod. I would assume you
would get less adverse yaw and a larger flap operating range.
Your Tail mod is intriging but I would never have guessed that it was done for
ground handling.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170335#170335
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Jose, only got a inside pic
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170336#170336
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/picsll_003_145.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
Dear Noel Loveys,
The first airplane they used for Sky King, the one you refer, is a Cessna T-50,
referred to as the Bamboo Bomber. Later they used the Cessna 310.
A friend of mine, Norm Rignier, now departed, leased his T-50 for some of the Sky
King episodes. By the by, I thought Norm looked alot like Dana Andrews.
Regards,
Jack
PS. thanks for the info on the Rotax electrical power.
--------
Kitfox II, 582, Tundra Tires,
rusty pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170338#170338
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
I'm curious now after looking at Steve's pictures. Is the nose gear mount bolt
on, weld on, or both? Looks like where the mount attaches to the bottom of the
fuselage is it bolted on, or at least the support tubes are bolted on. But
also looks like the shock mount on the front of the frame is welded on to where
the two cross braces come together.
Thanks,
Rick
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Dave:
Thanks for the picture. Looks like a good alternative. I prefer the loose nosewheel
system due to the simplicity of the installation, but the planes new owner
prefer to have full steering. We may end copying your installation. Any
additional picture showing details of the installation that you may send in the
future will be valuable.
Thanks for your support!
Jose
----- Original Message ----
From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:01:29 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder
Jose, only got a inside pic
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170336#170336
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/picsll_003_145.jpg
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Steve:
Since the plane is partially uncovered due to the required repairs, it is a good
time to modify the vertical stabilizer. Due you have an idea of the weight
added due to extended vertical stabilizer and rudder? Beside being longer, is
the model IV rudder wider? Which are the airplane weights before and after the
modifications?
Best Regards!
Jose
----- Original Message ----
From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:16:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder
> I did the vertical stabilizer and rudder mods to try to bring my plane more up
to date as long as I was doing the trigear mod. I guess I wouldn't consider
this a required mod, but knowing that it has historically been an issue and very
solvable, it just seemed like it should be done and the difference is VERY
noticeable.
>
Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying yet?
Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross weight
if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the process. 85DD
predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one that
had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off?
I do stand to be corrected on his matter but I like to know how a KF 1 can now
have a gross weight changed from 850 to 1050 before the Kf 2 and 3 were produced.
One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he has a
modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to me would
be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170263#170263
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Jose,
The new rudder is both taller and wider. The total added weight for all the mods
I have completed is 46#. Adding the nose wheel and the Grove main gear were
the largest weight gains. Weight went from 579# to 625#.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170367#170367
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Dave,
> Your Tail mod is intriging but I would never have guessed that it was done for
ground handling.
The mod was not done for ground handling. That is just where I have noticed it
so far. Remember, the plane has not yet been in the air.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170370#170370
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II |
Steve,
I had also read that the Grove grear was not made to fit earlier
models. I have a model II which I bought with the Grove gear already
installed. I have not contacted Grove to confirm suitability for early
models. Have you talked to Grove about this?
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
SkySteve wrote:
>
>Jose,
>I have just completed a Model I conversion to tri gear. Glad to help if I can.
I used the Grove gear. Many people said it would only fit the Model IV and
newer, but it bolted right onto my Model I. Got the nose gear from John McBean.
When I did mine, I made certain the Grove gear could be repositioned to the
forward position so I could later convert the plane back to taildragger if
I wanted to. Make certain to keep the tail wheel if you do this.
>
>--------
>Steve Wilson
>Huntsville, UT
>Kitfox I-IV 85DD
>912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
>Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II |
Rex,
No, I have not told Grove their gear fits the earlier models. In fact, it never
even crossed my mind. I did tell them I have a model I and they told me there
is no main gear made for my plane. I just bought the gear anyway and it fit
right on. Good idea though. It may help them and some other airplane owner
out there. I will call them today.
I have really felt like a "pioneer" with this mod thing. I haven't been able to
get informational help on any of my mods. It's been like I have the only old
Kitfox out there and everyone thinks nothing will fit them and that there is
no way to upgrade these planes. It has been very frustrating to say the least.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170375#170375
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air |
At 06:02 PM 3/16/2008, you wrote:
>WOW,,sounds scarey..one day I had my KF sitting out by the pumps,and
>a doctor with a R44.was going to fly his chopper up to the pumps.and
>was in a hurry.he told me that my KF would be OK..
We had, prior to the demise of Silver State, a lot of
helicopter traffic at our airport. I too was very wary of even the
R22's and would refuse to taxi anywhere near them.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King....Sky King.... |
That's the Bamboo Bomber -- A T-50 (UC78) Cessna -- I Think !
George
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| Subject: | Re: Tru-Trak Autopilot in S5/Vixen |
The follow-up report on the ADI-II autopilot is rather short and sweet. I am very
satisfied with the performance of this unit. It will hold the altitude +/-
10 feeteven in very rough air! It also maintains the selected course heading
without fail and adjustments in heading are easily accomplished. I hate to
admit it.but this thing flies better than I do! If I had to compare the bang
to the buck and face the would I do it all over again? questionthey answer would
be a definite YES. For our longer flights it has become a lifesaver. Even
on local flightsand/or around the patch, it is great to be able to just let go
of everything for a few seconds, minutes or hours and tend to other business!
From a safety standpoint, I feel that I am now able to focus more attention
outside the cockpit, charts, navigation, etc. Great stuff! HonestlyI had forgotten
how much I enjoyed having an autopilot in the past. It just didnt seem
like a necessary item (for me) to have on our Vixen. I was wrong!
My only complaintWhen trying to fly slow (usually when flying with the 75 MPH &
under crowd) and in rough air, is not the best nor most comfortable feeling.
It feels very squirrely and/or mushywith a lot of yaw. It really cranks the
plane around! Think of being VERY over controlled. I really dont know how to
describe itother than we DONT like the feeling! I can change the rate (or how
fast it responds to heading changes (brought on by rough air) easy enough and
this issue will diminish somewhat. I just choose to leave it in its most sensitive
mode. However, flying at normal cruise speeds 90 120 TAS it is fantasticno
matter how rough the air gets.
The most delicate part is the soldering of the wiring harness. If you are not
good at soldering small wires to a computer type plugpay Stein Air to build your
harness for $200.00. it will be well worth it.
I have the installation pictures completed with descriptions, etc. I have put
it in a Power Point Presentation. It is too large to upload here. (one picture
attached for example). If you would like a copy please feel free to email me
and I will forward it to you. Email is: Flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net (replace
the (at) with @). Please include "Autopilot" in the subject line. Thanks!
If you have any questions or comments (before or after receiving the file), please
post them to this forum for the benefit of everyone!
Travis :D
--------
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
IFR with Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170440#170440
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/autopilot_190.jpg
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| Subject: | KitFox ASI on EBAY |
Hey gents....I just saw an EBAY item that might be of interest here. In fact I
bought one. This fella has several brand new in the box KitFox branded 140 mph
Airspeed indicators for 52 bucks each.
Ebay Item num. 250218653366
They have the KitFox logo on the face.
He in fact as some avid branded and challengers ones too! INcludeing some very
good deals on non-labeled insturments.
Smooth air folks!
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170474#170474
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
The builder is the manufacturer of the plane... as such he has the right to
put whatever weight rating on the plane he wants. How can that be fraud.
If you wnt to be totally safe check the construction of your plane against
other model I. There is no law that I know of that says you have to fly up
to 1050. If on the other hand you find the pass throughs have been beefed
up, The spars have additional internal support Etc. Etc then feel safe to
fly to Mr. Denney's spec. The Otis, as I see it, is on you, the pilot, to
make sure your plane is safe.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 11:19 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder
Dave,
> Steve, What has change with the additional tail height ? Or is it flying
yet?
>
I have just finished over an hour of taxiing and am getting ready for the
first flight as soon as the weather allows. The additional tail height has
provided very solid rudder authority starting at about 10 mph. As soon as I
get rolling I can feel the rudder effectiveness in steering the plane. When
I would taxi with the model I vertical stabilizer and rudder the plane did
not respond well on the ground. I am thinking that changing to the trigear
may have helped some also as the AOA is now much lower allowing the vertical
stabilizer and rudder to be up in the air and not blocked by the rest of the
plane. Again, I'm certainly no engineer, but this just seems logical to me.
> Also, I would be curious to know what Denney did to state the 1050 gross
weight if anything. The builder could have just wrote in 1050 during the
process
I would certainly hope a builder and the owner of the company would not just
write down a false number. That would be very stupid and dangerous, not to
mention outright fraud to the FAA, the public, and his customers, but a huge
liability as well. And then to sell the plane with that misrepresentation.
I hope not. And of course we must also realize that the current Kitfox
Aircraft Company has been fully aware of the transaction for a couple of
years now, and this plane is very well known to them. If any of the above
were to be shown to be true I guess I would soon be the new owner of Kitfox
Aircraft. The legal fiduciary requirements to one's customers is paramount
in the aircraft industry. So, I am confident that all has been presented to
me in a fully disclosed and truthful manner. (Sorry about the rant, but I
can't even imagine such fraud)
> 85DD predecesor was 84DD ? Does anyone know if that Kitfox 1 was the one
that had the wing attach points at the longerons torn off?
>
Sorry, but I am totally ignorant as to the history stated here.
> One more thing you might want to do it to contact Mc Bean as I think he
has a modifed mixer kit that will give you flapperon differential. That to
me would be a definate must do for older Kitfoxes.
Sounds like I'm about to spend more money. If it is a must, then I will
look into it. Exactly what will be the change/benefit?
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170269#170269
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| Subject: | KitFox ASI on EBAY |
I bought one of his Avid airspeed indicators. Got it about 3 days later.
Haven't tried it out but it seems fine looking at it. Jim Chuk Avids Mn>
Subject: Kitfox-List: KitFox ASI on EBAY> From: donghe@one-eleven.net> Date
: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:41:45 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kit
fox-List message posted by: "Don G" <donghe@one-eleven.net>> > Hey gents...
.I just saw an EBAY item that might be of interest here. In fact I bought o
ne. This fella has several brand new in the box KitFox branded 140 mph Airs
peed indicators for 52 bucks each.> Ebay Item num. 250218653366 > They have
the KitFox logo on the face.> He in fact as some avid branded and challeng
ers ones too! INcludeing some very good deals on non-labeled insturments.>
> Smooth air folks!> > --------> Don G.> Central Illinois> Kitfox IV Speeds
ter> Luscombe 8A> > http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm> >
> > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic
========================> _
=============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.-You IM, we g
ive.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Breaker / switch question? |
I think you will have to do a lot more than 482 hr to wear out those
breakers to the pint where they will have to be swapped out. The good thing
is as they age they open sooner and sooner not later and later.
Better 5A than no protection at all.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
Noel-
The starter breaker is only to protect the wire that runs from the 5
amp breaker behind the panel to the starter button. The only reason
that I used a 5 amp is because those particular breakers don't come
in anything less than that, and I wanted all the switches to look the
same. Probably a *real* electrical person would shudder at that
thought, but other people might not even have a breaker in that
application.
When they fail, I'll definitely junk 'em and replace. But in two
years of service, and 482 hours of operation, the one breaker has
only given me a problem that one time. And it opened as the result
of the sun beating on the black panel. And when it cooled, operation
was normal. But before it cooled and would stick closed on its own, I
just held it closed and hit the starter and it worked. No problems
since. Where I absolutely had to use a smaller breaker than the 5A.,
I used a fuse.
Lynn
On Mar 16, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Lynn:
>
> I quite agree with you about the breaker switches but It is true
> that if you are using the switches several times each day they will
> wear out and break open sooner and sooner. When that happens
> replace them. I am bit surprised that your starter energized
> draws close to five amps @ 12V I don't think mine draws a full amp.
>
>
> Ever notice the number of those switches used in commercial planes??
>
>
> <image001.jpg>
>
>
> Noel Loveys
>
> Campbellton, NL, Canada
>
> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
>
> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
>
> 582 B box, Ivo IFA, (out) Aerocet 1100 floats
>
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Breaker / switch question?
>
>
>
>
> Ditto on the Potter & Brumfield breaker/switches. Somebody earlier
>
> said they were not good, but I beg to differ. The only problem that
>
> I've found with them is when the sun was beating on my panel, and one
>
> of them kicked out. It was a 5 amp breaker in the starter circuit.
>
> (Don't get alarmed, guys...this is just to protect the wire that goes
>
> to the starter button to engage the starter solenoid) I simply held
>
> it "on" until I started the engine, then let it go. It worked fine.
>
> Since then I simply don't park where the sun can beat on the panel,
>
> and if that is not possible, I cover the breakers with a white rag,
>
> and all systems are go. It's never happened since then.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
> Grass Lake, Michigan
>
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>
> flying w/480+ hrs
>
>
> On Mar 16, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
>
> > <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> > We use Potter-Brumfield breaker/switches all the time in the RV
>
> > world and they work fine. Bob Nuckolls has no problem with them
>
> > either.
>
> >
>
> > Randy Lervold
>
> > www.rv-8.com
>
> > www.rv-3.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
> to browse
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
Thanks Jack.
By the time they got around to using the 310 sometime in 58 as far as I can
make out by the copy right on the films, Which was by the way issued to
accompany so is not expired. They must have gotten big enough audience for
the plane to be mentioned in the credits.
I also noticed that some of the landing sequences in the first few years
programming were used in several shows. The rocks that Sky fell off was
also the rock that he in another episode chased a fellow off. Also the mine
was used in at least two episodes one having to do with gold the other was
uranium. All that aside for a program in the rank infancy of television it
is fantastic. Too bad the producers of today's programs don't have a look
at a few of these older shows to see what made them good and try to
recapture the essence instead of just blowing it up.
Noel
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rudderdancer
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 6:46 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Sky King....
Dear Noel Loveys,
The first airplane they used for Sky King, the one you refer, is a Cessna
T-50, referred to as the Bamboo Bomber. Later they used the Cessna 310.
A friend of mine, Norm Rignier, now departed, leased his T-50 for some of
the Sky King episodes. By the by, I thought Norm looked alot like Dana
Andrews.
Regards,
Jack
PS. thanks for the info on the Rotax electrical power.
--------
Kitfox II, 582, Tundra Tires,
rusty pilot.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170338#170338
Message 19
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| Subject: | Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King Air |
Don't those guys get any training in the effects of downwash??
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gary Buchanan, Flying Close Formation with King
Air
At 06:02 PM 3/16/2008, you wrote:
>WOW,,sounds scarey..one day I had my KF sitting out by the pumps,and
>a doctor with a R44.was going to fly his chopper up to the pumps.and
>was in a hurry.he told me that my KF would be OK..
We had, prior to the demise of Silver State, a lot of
helicopter traffic at our airport. I too was very wary of even the
R22's and would refuse to taxi anywhere near them.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Noel,
Do you really mean what you just said? That the builder/manufacturer has the RIGHT
to put whatever weight rating on the plane he wants? And that the otis is
on the pilot to make sure the plane is safe?
OK, I'll bite. Let me tell you a short story: I am the manufacturer of an airplane.
Let's see, what to call my new airplane. Oh, yes, I'll call it a Kitcoyote.
Yea, I really like that name. Now when I build this airplane and do the
engineering on it I find out it can only carry 850# gross weight (plus a safety
factor of 1.5 because I want to be safe). Now I want to sell a lot of these
new Kitcoyotes for my new Kitcoyote Areocraft Company, so I decide to commit
intentional fraud and write down on the weight and balance that my new plane
can carry, say, 5000# gross weight. Yea, that should sell a lot of planes.
You, Noel, purchase my airplane because you think it would be great to have
this new little two seater that can carry 5,000#. Now you load up your wife and
about 4,000# of her luggage (you limit her to only 4,000# because you, too
want to be safe) and you try to fly off on vacation. Of course you don't make
it, crash, kill yourself and your wife and all her stuff burns in the fire.
Now are you telling me that I have no liability and no fraud was committed and
that you alone as the pilot have the "otis to make sure your plane is safe?
You mean you can't count on me as the manufacturer at all to be truthful with
you since there is "no law that says you have to fly up to 5,000#". Come on,
you don't really believe that, do you?
When you do a weight and balance on an airplane, any airplane, you don't empty
all the fuel, take out all the gages, radios, etc and weigh the empty airplane
each time do you? No, of course not. You go to the POH just like the FAA tells
you to and you look up the empty weight, add in all the gages, radios and
other stuff, plus fuel, luggage, pilot, passengers, etc and calculate your weight
and balance. You count on the manufacturer to provide you with factual information
to work from.
Do you, as the pilot tear the entire plane apart and check each item it was built
with? Of course not, you count on the manufacturer to be honest with you that
the plane was built right. So how can you say that the manufacturer has the
RIGHT to put whatever weight rating on the plane he wants. The manufacturer
DOES NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT. The manufacturer has the responsibility to be truthful
and honest about what he built. And don't open the argument that the word
Experimental covers all wrong and thereby allows anyone to commit intentional
fraud. It does not. We are all expected to be honest. We are all expected
to not commit fraud.
When there is an airliner crash, the FAA, NTSB and all the attorneys in the free
western world do not wait at the pilot's doorstep if the plane crash was caused
by a default in the aircraft. They go to the manufacturer. If your logic
was correct, they would all go to the pilot because you have stated that "the
otis ...is on the pilot, to make sure your plane is safe". Yes, the pilot is
responsible to make sure the plane is safe, by using the honest information provided
by the manufacturer for those items that the pilot cannot know or test
by not being the manufacturer.
Now, just so we are both on the same page. And just in case your comments were
about something I might have said earlier in this thread, please read all my
comments. Especially the one where I very clearly state, and I quote, "So, I
am confident that all has been presented to me in a fully disclosed and truthful
manner." This final comment seems to have been missed too many times already.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170550#170550
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Sky King.... |
This just may be the best discovery I have ever had on the world wide web! I have
bee watching SkyKing all evening and I thank you so much for sharing this
find.
As a very young boy I never missed Sky-King on the tube...and I think the one of
the Highlites of my adult life was just a few years ago, at OshKosh, as I was
walking thru the Cessna parking area, I came upon an elegant old woman sitting
in front of a show quality 310 with SongBird on the nose and the ranch's logo
on the fuse.... As I have seen many 310s with this name on them I almost walked
by, but then , as I approached the center of the parking spot, I looked at
the Lady, with a card table and autographed photos of a much younger her there,
along with other memorabilia, and a realized I was looking right into the
eyes of Penny. She was as elegant as they come, and the smile told me right away
she was real thing....my first "TV Love"...sitting right here and patronizing
all us old dreamers.. I had a great chat with her and valued this interview
right up there with talks with Bob Hoover, Chuck Yeager, The Rutan bros.. and
other OshKosh regulars. I don't know if she still does this, as I have never
seen her there since, but I still walk the Cessna parking area every year..hoping
for a glance at that smile.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170551#170551
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 80HP Idle RPM |
I have found that If I have the prop set..(taper tip warp) at a good cruise pitch,
and the wide open rpms in flight will just touch redline, that at Rotaxs Recommended
min idle speed I have a heck of a time getting the Plane to land...makes
it a tremendous floater. I either have to take some pitch out of the prop
to get good landings, or reduce the idle speed to 1500, at which It begins
to get rough.
--------
Don G.
Central Illinois
Kitfox IV Speedster
Luscombe 8A
http://www.geocities.com/dagger369th/my_firefly.htm
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170552#170552
Message 23
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Noel and Steve,
I respect you both for what you have contributed here, please believe
that. I wish I could speak from as much life experience as even the
average person on this list. I hope our discussions serve all towards
increasing understanding of every aspect of owning a Kitfox. Without
personal conflicts would be preferable. We should all know it is
trickier to debate subjects via email than in person and still avoid
provoking misunderstandings.
That said, shouldn't it be: onus not Otis? This is a minor detail to be
sure. We all have errors and misconceptions, I know I do and have made
similar errors. I hope someone will point them out to me when I make one
again.
I'm doing this now because I read a great little article here:
http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/str/4.html
It kinda got me fired up to try to correct errors when I see them. It'll
subside soon and I'll get back to letting these little nitpicks go
without comment. Otherwise good points of discussion.
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
Noel Loveys wrote:
> The builder is the manufacturer of the plane... as such he has the
> right to put whatever weight rating on the plane he wants. How can
> that be fraud. If you wnt to be totally safe check the construction of
> your plane against other model I. There is no law that I know of that
> says you have to fly up to 1050. If on the other hand you find the
> pass throughs have been beefed up, The spars have additional internal
> support Etc. Etc then feel safe to fly to Mr. Denneys spec. The Otis,
> as I see it, is on you, the pilot, to make sure your plane is safe.
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Compass Question |
I have just acquired a PAI-700 vertical card compass from a friend. He
had no documentation with this unit. Do any of you possibly know what the
proper procedure is for calibrating this compass? I went to PAI's website
hoping to find the info there, but there is no tech info at all on the
website. Thanks
Andy F.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder |
Guys, I believe the word you looking for is "onus". Otis? Seems I saw that
on an elevator>
Definition
the onus Show phonetics
noun [S] FORMAL
the responsibility or duty to do something:
[+ to infinitive] The onus is on the landlord to ensure that the property is
habitable.
We are trying to shift the onus for passenger safety onto the government.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II-Reminder
Noel,
Do you really mean what you just said? That the builder/manufacturer has
the RIGHT to put whatever weight rating on the plane he wants? And that the
otis is on the pilot to make sure the plane is safe?
OK, I'll bite. Let me tell you a short story: I am the manufacturer of an
airplane. Let's see, what to call my new airplane. Oh, yes, I'll call it a
Kitcoyote. Yea, I really like that name. Now when I build this airplane
and do the engineering on it I find out it can only carry 850# gross weight
(plus a safety factor of 1.5 because I want to be safe). Now I want to
sell a lot of these new Kitcoyotes for my new Kitcoyote Areocraft Company,
so I decide to commit intentional fraud and write down on the weight and
balance that my new plane can carry, say, 5000# gross weight. Yea, that
should sell a lot of planes. You, Noel, purchase my airplane because you
think it would be great to have this new little two seater that can carry
5,000#. Now you load up your wife and about 4,000# of her luggage (you
limit her to only 4,000# because you, too want to be safe) and you try to
fly off on vacation. Of course you don't make it, crash, kill yourself and
your wife and all her !
stuff burns in the fire. Now are you telling me that I have no liability
and no fraud was committed and that you alone as the pilot have the "otis to
make sure your plane is safe? You mean you can't count on me as the
manufacturer at all to be truthful with you since there is "no law that says
you have to fly up to 5,000#". Come on, you don't really believe that, do
you?
When you do a weight and balance on an airplane, any airplane, you don't
empty all the fuel, take out all the gages, radios, etc and weigh the empty
airplane each time do you? No, of course not. You go to the POH just like
the FAA tells you to and you look up the empty weight, add in all the gages,
radios and other stuff, plus fuel, luggage, pilot, passengers, etc and
calculate your weight and balance. You count on the manufacturer to provide
you with factual information to work from.
Do you, as the pilot tear the entire plane apart and check each item it was
built with? Of course not, you count on the manufacturer to be honest with
you that the plane was built right. So how can you say that the
manufacturer has the RIGHT to put whatever weight rating on the plane he
wants. The manufacturer DOES NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT. The manufacturer has the
responsibility to be truthful and honest about what he built. And don't
open the argument that the word Experimental covers all wrong and thereby
allows anyone to commit intentional fraud. It does not. We are all
expected to be honest. We are all expected to not commit fraud.
When there is an airliner crash, the FAA, NTSB and all the attorneys in the
free western world do not wait at the pilot's doorstep if the plane crash
was caused by a default in the aircraft. They go to the manufacturer. If
your logic was correct, they would all go to the pilot because you have
stated that "the otis ...is on the pilot, to make sure your plane is safe".
Yes, the pilot is responsible to make sure the plane is safe, by using the
honest information provided by the manufacturer for those items that the
pilot cannot know or test by not being the manufacturer.
Now, just so we are both on the same page. And just in case your comments
were about something I might have said earlier in this thread, please read
all my comments. Especially the one where I very clearly state, and I
quote, "So, I am confident that all has been presented to me in a fully
disclosed and truthful manner." This final comment seems to have been
missed too many times already.
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox I-IV 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170550#170550
Checked by AVG.
10:48 AM
Checked by AVG.
10:48 AM
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