---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/26/08: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:13 AM - Re: Fuel for 582 rotax (steve shinabery) 2. 07:02 AM - Re: Fuel for 582 rotax (Robert Harris) 3. 08:27 AM - Re: gas cap leaks (Rick) 4. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: skis (Marco Menezes) 5. 12:32 PM - Re: skis (akflyer) 6. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs (Noel Loveys) 7. 01:27 PM - Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs (vetdrem) 8. 02:16 PM - Re: skis (Noel Loveys) 9. 03:06 PM - 95% Complete??? Registration questions (darinh) 10. 03:19 PM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (84KF) 11. 03:26 PM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (Dee Young) 12. 03:32 PM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (84KF) 13. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: skis (patrick reilly) 14. 04:21 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (SkySteve) 15. 04:37 PM - Re: skis (akflyer) 16. 05:13 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (dave) 17. 05:43 PM - Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs (dave) 18. 05:53 PM - Re: Fuel for 582 rotax (dave) 19. 06:04 PM - Re: Props (Michael Logan) 20. 06:12 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (Rexinator) 21. 06:13 PM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (Fred Shiple) 22. 06:38 PM - Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (dave) 23. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (84KF) 24. 07:08 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (Jose M. Toro) 25. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: skis (patrick reilly) 26. 09:00 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (Rexinator) 27. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: skis (84KF) 28. 09:24 PM - Re: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 29. 10:07 PM - Re: Re: skis (Guy Buchanan) 30. 10:07 PM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:09 AM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel for 582 rotax Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 06:23 PM 3/25/2008, you wrote: >> if there is no auto fuel to get at a airport.can I run my 582 on >> 100LL ?would this hurt my engine.?what about 1/2+1/2 fly for app >> 1+1/2 hr and fill with 100LL??or could I run all 100LL stright??Steve >> Shinabery N554KF KF2 little 582 > > Steve, > I've been running my 582 for 200+ hours on nothing but 100LL > spiked with Decalin lead scavenger. No real problems, but I seem to > have more carbon build up than others. > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > Thanks Guy.I will see if I can get some ....Some where..It is just for when I can not get auto fuel at a airport. Steve Shinabery N554KF ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:34 AM PST US From: Robert Harris Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel for 582 rotax I had very little carbon build up on my 582 Blue Head too. I ran only 100LL with the top of the Line Oil from 1-800-Airwolf California Power Supply AV-2. That's good stuff. Robert Former Model II/582 V/0200 ----- Original Message ---- From: Guy Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:39:54 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel for 582 rotax At 06:23 PM 3/25/2008, you wrote: >if there is no auto fuel to get at a airport.can I run my 582 on >100LL ?would this hurt my engine.?what about 1/2+1/2 fly for app >1+1/2 hr and fill with 100LL??or could I run all 100LL >stright??Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 little 582 Steve, I've been running my 582 for 200+ hours on nothing but 100LL spiked with Decalin lead scavenger. No real problems, but I seem to have more carbon build up than others. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:37 AM PST US From: "Rick" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: gas cap leaks Most likely fuel sloshing forward on taxi and braking out the vent tubes. Not much you can do except be gentle on stops and turns on the ground. Doubtful it is happening in the air. IF your just doing short flight you might consider reducing the fuel load. This will help in several areas to include performance. If you really fill full and go for a short flight and let her sit in the sun be prepared to come out and see fuel dripping off the wings. I have no idea how I know this. I did try sealing the small spaces on the fuel caps, soldered actually. It helped a little. I do not really know what the new fuel caps look like so can not be sure if that applies. One last thing. If you don't park level with full or near full tanks you will also experience the full coming out the vent tubes, acerbated by hotter weather of course. Hope that helps some. Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dcsfoto Sent: 2008-03-24 20:28 Subject: Kitfox-List: gas cap leaks the only remaining issue with my Model 7 is leaking gas caps. Filled the tanks, went for a short flight and returned with fuel running off both wings. one cap is new both gaskets are new and caps fit tight. David M7 and 3 do not arcive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172442#172442 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:43 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis I'd buy a set too Leni, if the price isn't too steep. I'd rather be flying than building skis. But first I need cabin heat. How about manufacturing a heat muff assembly for the 582? do not archive Lynn Matteson wrote: I'd be interested, but I'd be hard pressed put a price on what I'd pay. When I think about parting with dollars, I start thinking about what fun it'd be to build. But if you get some offers and start to manufacture, let it be known and maybe the price would cause me to rethink my frugalness. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual do not archive On Mar 25, 2008, at 6:20 PM, akflyer wrote: > > I just did some checking on those skis. The look great and > apparently worked killer on a kit fox, but were never offered to > the public. Only one set was ever produced, they were shown to see > what kind of interest would be generated. > > I would like to know if anyone on the list would buy a set and if > so, what would you realistically be willing to spend for them. It > may be worth it to get the molds and put them into production as > right now it is a pretty much build your own for our size planes. > > Let me know if there is any interest. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > 95% complete > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172638#172638 > > Marco Menezes Model 2 582 N99KX --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:57 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: skis From: "akflyer" I am checking into production costs, but I would think a target price of 650-750 would not be out of line. It may very well be a tad cheaper but if they came in at anything above that I doubt too many would buy them. Also would think about making straight ski's too a little cheaper. Just food for thought -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172841#172841 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:10 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs You reuse lockwire??? The leg fix looks good though. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vetdrem Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:39 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs here is a pic of mine. This is the inboard side of the left main, but they all look the same. I believe that this is OEM, but I am not sure. I know that I like the looks of mine better than the busted up things that Dave has pictures of. Louie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172333#172333 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/003_213.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs From: "vetdrem" Doug and Dave I took apart the right main and looked close at how it is constructed. They were originally the c channel with the lightening holes like the ones that failed in the pictures. the guy that I bought them from said that he had beefed up the mains, but it didn't mean much to me then, so I just let it go. Now I see that he welded a SS plate to the web of the channel, making it twice as thick, and welded a SS plate to the legs of the channel to turn it into a box shape. This is different than I had said before, so I just wanted to correct myself. I am adding a pic to better explain it. Louie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172852#172852 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0215_323.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:58 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: skis Lynn: Have you ever seen the hydraulic skis they use on certified planes? The weight of the hydraulic system is surprisingly low especially if you can find the aluminium rams. They have two channels in the top of the ski that go past and in front of the wheel hole then a double action rams push a slides under each main wheel. The rams are operated by a hand pump in the cabin. The skis usually have springs which allow the ski to be pushed down a little bit as the slide covers the wheel but I'm sure low pressure tires would do the same thing. As for flying LSA on penetration skis there are two things to consider 1. There is no reconfiguration in the air and 2. The plane is still described as a land plane. If I was going to use them I'd talk to the FAA first. I think the spirit of the LSA is offer flight without complexity i.e. forgetting to put your gear down before landing. Float planes will land pretty well on runways...Taking off again though is another matter. They don't want to allow the planes to get too big, too complex or for that matter too fast so that is the reason for no IFA props. And they don't want anyone to come up with arguments like, "I wasn't using the IFA capability of the prop", or the A&P was supposed to take that prop off before the plane was registered, etc. These are only opinions and as such may not be worth the paper they are not printed on. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 3:20 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis I get so much drag with the tires poking through as far as they do, and if I was to reduce that penetration to 1" instead of 2", I could close up the hole that the tire protrudes through. Or, another school of thought is to make the skis hydraulically operated, and instead of a hole in the shoe for tire protrusion, make a notch like I have seen on other skis, where the tire fits into a notch. Then the ski is kinda "L" shaped, with the wide part of the ski out front like the bottom of the "L", and the tire fitting into the notch which is the included angle between the bottom of the "L" and the vertical part. With this arrangement, there is no part of the shoe that will try to undercut the snow and cause drag. This is what I fight now with shoe area right behind the tire. I've seen this type of ski in pictures, and I've surmised that it could be built as a rigid setup, or possibly as a hydraulically-actuated lowering ski, that would take the tire drag right out of the picture. As a sport Pilot, I might not be able to get away with any form of "repositionable" landing arrangement, however the FAA has approved repositionable wheels for a couple of models of LSA water-landing crafts, so the door has been opened. I think it would be fun to try and make them out of aluminum sheet, formed and riveted into a structural shape, then apply the nylon/ plastic/UHMW material on the bottom as a means to keep the shoe from freezing/sticking to the surface. I've seen pictures of Deke's, and his (no wheels) work well up in his "neck of the woods" where they get more snow than down south here, and it probably stays around longer. Down south here...160-some miles...the snow comes and goes all winter long. Deke might even be subjected to more lake effects snow, being close to Lake Huron. I am lower mid-state, and we kind of get what's left over from battering both sides of the state with snow. So, due to the vagaries of our snowfall, I need wheels on the plane all the time. Just thinking out loud some of the reasons for building mine the way I did/do. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual On Mar 25, 2008, at 10:35 AM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, You mean your going to build anothe pair! I saw a pair of > ingeniously adapted plastic snowmobile skis done by Deke Morrisse > on www.sportflight.com. They are the other end of the spectrum in > time and $ spent from yours. I just might use his technique and add > skateboard wheels protruding through the bottom to roll in and out > of the hanger. > > Do not archive > > Pat reilly > Mod 3 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis > > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:39:45 -0400 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Thanks, Pat...the next pair will be wider, and maybe repositionable. > > I may even try my hand at making them out of aluminum sheet instead > > of the tubing. > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Grass Lake, Michigan > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual > > > > > > > > On Mar 24, 2008, at 11:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > > > > > Lynn, Thanks for the photos. You really put some time and work > into > > > your skis. I saw a picture on the archives of a pair Deke Morisse > > > built from plastic snowmobile skis(not wheel skis though) that are > > > ingeniously simple. > > > Do not archive > > > Pat Reilly > > > Mod 3 Rebuild > > > Rockford,IL > > > > > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis > > > > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:12 -0400 > > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > > > Pat- > > > > I built mine from round 4130 tubing. Tires are 16" OD, > penetrate 2", > > > > but I would make that less next time. > > > > My inner mounts are pictured below, with some of the hardware > shown. > > > > I'm looking for pics of outer "axle." > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > > > ========== _- > > > forums.matronics.com_- > > > ========== _- > > > contribution_- > > > ========= > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:13 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions From: "darinh" First off...why is it that the last 5% of the project takes 95% of the time? Seems like progress has slowed to a snails pace! Now the questions: For those of you who have done this before, when does one get the FAA involved for registration? Does the plane have to be "ready to fly" before starting the paperwork? Obviously, the plane needs to be ready to go when the DAR inspection is scheduled but can I get started on other paperwork before this? If so, anybody care to give me some pointers? Just FYI, I would like to be flying the Phase 1 hours by mid summer or earlier if possible. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Painting) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172868#172868 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:45 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions ".....when does one get the FAA involved for registration? " http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/0ca2845e2aafffbb86256dbf00640cb2/$FILE/AC20-27F.pdf ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:51 PM PST US From: "Dee Young" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions I am going to answer you Darin as I had inspectors from SLC come to Idaho to do mine. I would suggest you start your paper work now. The plane should be pretty well done but it take quit a bit of time to get them there to do the inspection. When they did get there they were not concerned to find mine lacking a couple of things. They were very good to work with and quit helpful. They set up my test flight restrictions and the items left unfinished were completed. I was permitted begin testing with no further inspections. That is the last I heard from them. Dee Young Model II N345DY ----- Original Message ----- From: darinh To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions > First off...why is it that the last 5% of the project takes 95% of the time? Seems like progress has slowed to a snails pace! Now the questions: For those of you who have done this before, when does one get the FAA involved for registration? Does the plane have to be "ready to fly" before starting the paperwork? Obviously, the plane needs to be ready to go when the DAR inspection is scheduled but can I get started on other paperwork before this? If so, anybody care to give me some pointers? Just FYI, I would like to be flying the Phase 1 hours by mid summer or earlier if possible. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Painting) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172868#172868 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:04 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions Hmm...bad link? try.. http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/amateur_built/amateur_regs/ And again... http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/0ca2845e2aafffbb86256dbf00640cb2/$FILE/AC20-27F.pdf ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:10 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: skis Your 582 is water cooled. Get a Fiero heater core, $30 on e-bay, a Radio Sh ack computer cooling fan, $15 (they are 12 volt), mount and plumb it. Forge t about heater muffs. They are for aircooled engines. You have hot water, I t is a better method of heating, use it. Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL itfox-List: Re: skisTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com I'd buy a set too Leni, if the price isn't too steep. I'd rather be flying than building skis. But first I need cabin heat. How about manufacturing a heat muff assembly for the 582? do not archiveLynn Matteson wrote: be hard pressed put a price on what I'd pay. When I think about parting wi th dollars, I start thinking about what fun it'd be to build. But if you ge t some offers and start to manufacture, let it be known and maybe the price would cause me to rethink my frugalness.Lynn MattesonGrass Lake, MichiganK itfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200flying w/480+ hrs/down for annualdo not arc hiveOn Mar 25, 2008, at 6:20 PM, akflyer wrote:> --> Kitfox-List message po sted by: "akflyer" >> I just did some checking on those skis. The look grea t and > apparently worked killer on a kit fox, but were never offered to > the public. Only one set was ever produced, they were shown to see > what k ind of interest would be generated.>> I would like to know if anyone on the list would buy a set and if > so, what would you realistically be willing to spend for them. It > may be worth it to get the molds and put them into production as > right now it is a pretty much build your own for our size p lanes.>> Let me know if there is any interest.>> --------> DO NOT ARCHIVE> Leonard Perry> Soldotna AK> Avid "C" / Mk IV> 582 IVO IFA> Full Lotus 1260> 95% complete>>>>> Read this topic online ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:28 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II From: "SkySteve" I'm reporting back on the Model 1 increase in gross weight to 1050#. I just got off the phone with Dan Denney. We had a good discussion regarding 85DD increase in gross weight from 850# to 1050#. Dan told me that he replaced the model 1 wings with model III wings & flaperons which he took off 89DD. I have verified this from my airframe logbook. Dan told me the gross weight of 85DD is indeed 1050#. Following this and the addition of the 912A Rotax, the Airworthiness Certificate was amended. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172886#172886 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:55 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: skis From: "akflyer" the heater core will not even come close to putting out the hot air a properly constructed heat muff will. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 95% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172890#172890 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II From: "dave" > Dan told me that he replaced the model 1 wings with model III wings & flaperons which he took off 89DD Steve , Excellent !! What is your Wing strut diamters ? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172898#172898 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:26 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: aerocet 1000 amphibs From: "dave" Louie, good stuff. Just remember, you don't want the cable to be supporting the weight but the over centre stop. If the cable does the 3/16's bols will break, bend and/ or the SS tubing will fail. I have fixed several of these on this model floats and made new parts for them outta 4130 -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172905#172905 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:21 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel for 582 rotax From: "dave" Lead will fouls your plus more often and will end up in crankcase in bearings. I get 150 hours of one set of plugs and never have to use any "additives." I run regular gas 95% the odd time premium if I land at marina and that all that I can get and the very odd time a few gallons of Av gas if someone gives it to me. I would bring in a few jerry cans of regular gas before I used AVGAS. It is just pointless to use AVGAS and add an additive. Also I use only Bombardier XPS mineral oil .......... API - TC rated. That is what Rotax recommends and ROTAX recommend to NOT use AVGAS. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172908#172908 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:10 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Props My wife had a Pulsar 912 with a wooden ground adjustable prop and a friend of ours had an identical Pulsar but with the Prince P-Tip prop. With him weighing at least 50 pounds heavier since I am a small person, you would think that I would have the advantage. Not so. On takeoff, he would pull away from me easily and in cruise he was still 5 to 10 mph faster than me. That was a very good prop and he swears by it. Mike Logan -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cudnohufsky's Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:38 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Props Looking for imput on props for a Model 5 912UL combo. I know some are flying the IVO IFA, has it helped with the float spoken of during landing when the idle speed is kept around 2K ? Anyone have any experience with a Prince P-Tip prop? Lloyd C IM Mi Mod 5 912UL ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II From: Rexinator I wonder what the gross weight would be if Model 4 wings were used? I seem to remember someone on this list who has done something like this. -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs SkySteve wrote: > >I'm reporting back on the Model 1 increase in gross weight to 1050#. I just got off the phone with Dan Denney. We had a good discussion regarding 85DD increase in gross weight from 850# to 1050#. Dan told me that he replaced the model 1 wings with model III wings & flaperons which he took off 89DD. I have verified this from my airframe logbook. Dan told me the gross weight of 85DD is indeed 1050#. Following this and the addition of the 912A Rotax, the Airworthiness Certificate was amended. > >-------- >Steve Wilson >Huntsville, UT >Kitfox I-IV 85DD >912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive >Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:06 PM PST US From: Fred Shiple Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions The EAA will supply an info pack that includes all the necessary papers and clear instructions on when and how to get them to the FAA. The best $12 I spent when building my Kitfox and now registering the RV7. You need to allow 12 weeks to get your registration completed by the FAA, so should get your registration form, bill of sale and notarized builder form to them now. Fred ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:56 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II From: "dave" > I wonder what the gross weight would be if Model 4 wings were used? I > seem to remember someone on this list who has done something like this. Guys, Wake up !!!! You cannot JUST change the wings and get a higher gross weight. There are many other things that have changed from Models 1 to IV eg- Tube size, and wall thickness and different bracing. this alone will be found on longerons, crossmembers, wingstruts. If you believe that this is infact the correct gross weight get Mc Bean to tell you in writing. Or even Dan Denney since he is the one who set the wight in the first place. But remember the builder can SET the wight to what ever he /she wants. I would compare to other model 1s and 3 models to see what changed. And for you who do not know there were early model failure of parts of the fuselage near the wing struts attach point at the longerons. No one wants to talk about that but Dan denney would certainly know this. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172921#172921 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:34 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II Steve, Great name... Would it be correct..., or incorrect..., to say that there was no information about the "gross weight" concerning N85DD on file with the FAA that would have made the conversation with Mr.Denny unnecessary? (Note, to no one in particular, all past and present aircraft info is available on a CD thru the FAA at http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp for $10.00) Would it be correct, or incorrect, to say that Mr. Denny (and who would know better?) has only stated that in his (undisputable) opinion, due to modification to the original design, that the aircraft is now safe to fly at a total weight of 1050#, yet this weight is not "certificated" or "certified" by the FAA in any way? (I am preparing a post on this exact subject and it would be helpful information. Your response might save me some grief..., or help prove a point.) Respectfully, Steve Benesh 84KF KF5\912UL ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:41 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II "dave" wrote: "And for you who do not know there were early model failure of parts of the fuselage near the wing struts attach point at the longerons. No one wants to talk about that but Dan denney would certainly know this." Dave, do you have specific information on this statement? Jose ----- Original Message ---- From: dave Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:35:57 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II > I wonder what the gross weight would be if Model 4 wings were used? I > seem to remember someone on this list who has done something like this. Guys, Wake up !!!! You cannot JUST change the wings and get a higher gross weight. There are many other things that have changed from Models 1 to IV eg- Tube size, and wall thickness and different bracing. this alone will be found on longerons, crossmembers, wingstruts. If you believe that this is infact the correct gross weight get Mc Bean to tell you in writing. Or even Dan Denney since he is the one who set the wight in the first place. But remember the builder can SET the wight to what ever he /she wants. I would compare to other model 1s and 3 models to see what changed. And for you who do not know there were early model failure of parts of the fuselage near the wing struts attach point at the longerons. No one wants to talk about that but Dan denney would certainly know this. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=172921#172921 Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:52 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: skis I would imagine you are right. But, the question is, will the heater core p ut out "enough" heat. Do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 Rebuild Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: skis> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:35:12 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > -- heater core will not even come close to putting out the hot air a properly constructed heat muff will.> > --------> DO NOT ARCHIVE> Leonard Perry> Sol dotna AK> Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA> Full Lotus 1260> 95% co mplete> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com ================> > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II From: Rexinator Just to clarify, My question was meant as a point of engineering curiosity. I am aware that certain fuselage changes were made with each model and gross weight increase. This question probably may only be answered by a qualified Aeronatical Engineer. Until then I withdraw the question. -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs dave wrote: > > >>I wonder what the gross weight would be if Model 4 wings were used? I >>seem to remember someone on this list who has done something like this. >> >> > >Guys, Wake up !!!! You cannot JUST change the wings and get a higher gross weight. There are many other things that have changed from Models 1 to IV >eg- Tube size, and wall thickness and different bracing. >this alone will be found on longerons, crossmembers, wingstruts. > >If you believe that this is infact the correct gross weight get Mc Bean to tell you in writing. Or even Dan Denney since he is the one who set the wight in the first place. > >But remember the builder can SET the wight to what ever he /she wants. > >I would compare to other model 1s and 3 models to see what changed. > >And for you who do not know there were early model failure of parts of the fuselage near the wing struts attach point at the longerons. No one wants to talk about that but Dan denney would certainly know this. > >-------- >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info >http://www.cfisher.com/ > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:19 PM PST US From: 84KF Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis Pat, The Series 5 I have is equipped with a heater core. Referring to the original Skystar packing list, dated 01/23/95, it was part of "Heater Kit, Single, 912 #69014.000 ". The "Radiator, Cabin Heater" is part #15044.000. The included fan was a 4" All other parts and part #'s are included in the list also. The heater does work. But, you wouldn't know it unless you stick your hand under it. The total efficiency is going to be determined by actual coolant temps and how air tight you cabin is. I do not have a thermostat in the system so coolant temps are at the mercy of ambient air temps and my cabin has a lot of drafts so, in *my particular plane*, it's just about useless. With some work (read $$), maybe. I'm talking about flying in 35' 'F or less, and when you consider wind chill and any altitude, It gets cold. Gloves were mandatory for me this winter. I am not saying it couldn't be better... it is all due to the individual construction of the plane, and mine has not been modified from the original design. Steve 84KF KF5\912UL ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:39 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, I know that Kitfox want ed to sell me a sub kit of Kitfox 4 wings for my Kitfox 3 project and they said they would fit just fine. But if the carry throughs (or struts or som ething else) was only good for a lower weigh, that would be the weakest lin k. I know they didn't say I would end up with a higher gross weight JIm Chuk Avids Mn> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:56:37 -0600> To: kitfox-list@matr onics.com> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Tricycle Kitfox II> From: hefferan l.com>> > Just to clarify, My question was meant as a point of engineering > curiosity. I am aware that certain fuselage changes were made with each > model and gross weight increase. This question probably may only be > answ ered by a qualified Aeronatical Engineer. Until then I withdraw the > quest ion.> > -- > Rex Hefferan> SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repai sher.com>> > > >> >>I wonder what the gross weight would be if Model 4 wing s were used? I > >>seem to remember someone on this list who has done somet hing like this.> >> > >>> >> >Guys, Wake up !!!! You cannot JUST change the wings and get a higher gross weight. There are many other things that have changed from Models 1 to IV > >eg- Tube size, and wall thickness and diffe rent bracing. > >this alone will be found on longerons, crossmembers, wings truts.> >> >If you believe that this is infact the correct gross weight get Mc Bean to tell you in writing. Or even Dan Denney since he is the one who set the wight in the first place. > >> >But remember the builder can SET t he wight to what ever he /she wants.> >> >I would compare to other model 1s and 3 models to see what changed. > >> >And for you who do not know there were early model failure of parts of the fuselage near the wing struts atta ch point at the longerons. No one wants to talk about that but Dan denney w ould certainly know this.> >> >--------> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada> >Fl ========================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGL M_Mobile_Zune_V3 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:12 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis At 09:16 PM 3/26/2008, you wrote: >I do not have a thermostat in the system so coolant temps are at the >mercy of ambient air temps and my cabin has a lot of drafts so, in >my particular plane, it's just about useless. With some work (read $$), maybe. The thermostat is only 135F. Even with it in you're not going to get much heat unless you're running near the 180F max water temp. On my plane that only happens in the summer on climb-out. Not much requirement for a heater then. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:13 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions At 03:03 PM 3/26/2008, you wrote: >Now the questions: For those of you who have done this before, when >does one get the FAA involved for registration? Does the plane have >to be "ready to fly" before starting the paperwork? Obviously, the >plane needs to be ready to go when the DAR inspection is scheduled >but can I get started on other paperwork before this? If so, >anybody care to give me some pointers? You can do the registration anytime. If you are an EAA member their membership pages walk you through it nicely. The FAA also has a nice pamphlet on registration. Working from memory you: 1. Reserve an N number on-line. (You can let the FAA pick it, but why?) 2. Make sure you've got a complete bill of sale trace from the original manufacturer to you. For some reason the FAA has gotten anal about this. 3. Fill out and mail in your registration with the bill of sale information. 4. Get your registration back. 5. Put on your N numbers. (I wouldn't do it until after registration, just in case.) 6. Finish the plane, including a complete "conditional inspection". 7. Make an appointment with a convenient DAR. Take out a 3rd mortgage to pay his fee. (You already took out a 2nd to finish the plane, right?) 8. MAKE SURE THE INFORMATION ON THE DATA PLATE IS EXACTLY WHAT IS ON THE FAA FORMS. My DAR was seriously anal about this. I don't know why. I had to redo the forms before his arrival to exactly match my data plate. 9. The DAR comes and verifies that yes, your's looks like an airplane, helps you fill out the forms, takes your home in payment, then leaves. 10. You go flying. 11. If you want to do your own conditional inspections you go to your local FSDO and fill out another form and they'll issue a Repairman's Certificate. They might even ask if you built it. Mea culpa if I missed a few steps, it's been a while and I worked from memory. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.