---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/28/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Re: 582 Cabin Heat. Was Re: skis (Noel Loveys) 2. 02:03 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (steve shinabery) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: V/G s (Noel Loveys) 4. 07:16 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Chuck Popenoe) 5. 07:27 AM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (A Smith) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Noel Loveys) 7. 09:46 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (bjones@dmv.com) 8. 10:03 AM - Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions (darinh) 9. 10:05 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (patrick reilly) 10. 01:14 PM - Re: Wanted Starting motor (john beirne) 11. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Wanted Starting motor (patrick reilly) 12. 02:58 PM - Tundra Tires (Chris Budd) 13. 04:03 PM - gas door struts install? (jerry evans) 14. 06:25 PM - Re: gas door struts install? (Noel Loveys) 15. 06:41 PM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Glenn Horne) 16. 07:34 PM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Noel Loveys) 17. 08:04 PM - Re: gas door struts install? (Lynn Matteson) 18. 08:32 PM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Tom Jones) 19. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: Gasoline Question? (patrick reilly) 20. 09:47 PM - Black paint (rcsfca) 21. 10:12 PM - Re: gas door struts install? (jerry evans) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Cabin Heat. Was Re: skis Yes.. that's the heat muff. Sometimes people have also stuffed them with stainless steel Brillo pads to help heat conduction to the air. When using this type of heater a CO detector is a must! I have also seen a system on a Rotax 503 where there was a duct taken off the cooling air for the head and run forward to the cabin of a Challenger. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of avidfox Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:57 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Cabin Heat. Was Re: skis Forgive be if someone has mentioned this in the past, but has anyone tried to use the type of device that is used on (at least) a C-172L to collect hot air for carburetor heat? It is a simple, foward facing, open-ended stainless box,with small tabs top and bottom, and is attached to an exhaust header with 2 stainless hose clamps. Must weigh all of 3-4 oz's. Airflow in flight forces hot air radiating the pipe to flow to the carb. This is the best picture I have, but if you zoom in you can see it attached to the rear exhaust header feeding hot air to the carb air box. Simple, cheap, lightweight, ....and available pre-fabricated. Just a thought.... Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173185#173185 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/024_182.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:52 AM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? jeff puls wrote: > This brings up another question, do pumps have to have a decal > desclosing an Ethenol or Alcohol mixture? Jeff Classic IV KTZR > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* RAY Gignac > *To:* kitfox-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:05 AM > *Subject:* RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. > > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > Yes they do i know here in OHIO..it is the Law.Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:15 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: V/G s Consensus around here is 7-10%the chord of the wing. Some say they work, some say not... I'd try at 7% and if you get no significant change move them back a half inch at a time. Because the wings, all Kitfox and avid, have such high lift characteristics you may find to take advantage of any gains from VGs you may also have to install gap seals on the empennage and larger main tires for better(higher) AOA while landing. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Murphy Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:39 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: V/G s Can anyone tell me the best postion for mounting V/G s , how far aft of the leading edge. Thanks , John Murphy Classic 4 ,Speedster wing ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:15 AM PST US From: "Chuck Popenoe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? do pumps have to have a decal disclosing an Ethanol or Alcohol mixture? Answer is NO! Except in certain states which have mandated this requirement. It seems that MD and VA have not! Chuck Avid N113P Checked by AVG. 3/27/2008 7:15 PM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:13 AM PST US From: "A Smith" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 95% Complete??? Registration questions I got my paper work from the FAA out of SLC. You should be talking to them now. The paperwork took quite awhile on both of my planes. They were great to work with and the inspector was very helpful even before he came to Idaho. He let me know what he expected before he showed up. That was a couple of years back so a phone call would be your best bet to get things started I think. Albert Smith MudLake, Idaho 5TD, NSI T, CAP ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:24 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? Apparently that requirement depends on the jurisdiction you happen to be in. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff puls Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 12:39 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? This brings up another question, do pumps have to have a decal desclosing an Ethenol or Alcohol mixture? Jeff Classic IV KTZR ----- Original Message ----- From: RAY Gignac Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? _____ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:02 AM PST US From: bjones@dmv.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? Re E-10 auto gas As I understand it, certain counties in Maryland (near DC and Baltimore) are required to dispense ethanol blended auto gas in order to strive for better air quality so the state can continue to receive federal transportation funding. Counties outside of the requirement may still be able to dispense either. So stations outside of the requirement area may or may not have ethanol blend. Buyer beware. I find that labelling indicating presence of ethanol may not be posted on the pumps and I routinely test unless I happen to be able to talk with the station manager. Do not trust the counter clerk to know, test it yourself if in doubt, its easy. I have noticed labelling showing up on some pumps in the Florida Keys, so ethhanol blended fuel is reaching this area, despite the problems it creates with boat engines and fuel systems. There may be more boats than cars in the Keys and lots of snow birds who leave boats unused for months inviting condensation and atmospheric moisture absorption into the fuel leading to settleout. I would hate to run low on fuel out on the ocean beyond anchor depth and switch to a tank that was loaded with settleout. Power boats turn into "sail boats" and with prevailing winds out of the NE I might get to visit Fidel and his buddies in Cuba. BJ N154K 443-480-1023 do not archive Chuck Popenoe : > do pumps have to have a decal > disclosing an Ethanol or Alcohol mixture? > > > > Answer is NO! Except in certain states which have mandated this requirement. > It seems that MD and VA have not! > > > > Chuck > > > > Avid N113P > > > > > Checked by AVG. > 3/27/2008 > 7:15 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------ This message was sent using Delmarva Online's Webmail. http://www.dmv.com/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 95% Complete??? Registration questions From: "darinh" Thank for the info guys! I have my n-number reserved and have since read the AC on registration of homebuilt aircraft. This document has provided everything I need so I am sending the paperwork in today. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Painting) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173279#173279 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:07 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? B. Jones, What method do you use to test gasoline for ethanol? Do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 rebuild Rockford, IL> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:40:45 -0400> From: bjones@dmv.com> Re E-10 auto gas> As I understand it, certain counties in Maryland (near D C and Baltimore) are > required to dispense ethanol blended auto gas in ord er to strive for better air > quality so the state can continue to receive federal transportation funding. > Counties outside of the requirement may s till be able to dispense either. > > So stations outside of the requirement area may or may not have ethanol blend. > Buyer beware.> > I find that lab elling indicating presence of ethanol may not be posted on the > pumps and I routinely test unless I happen to be able to talk with the station > mana ger. Do not trust the counter clerk to know, test it yourself if in doubt, > its easy.> > I have noticed labelling showing up on some pumps in the Flo rida Keys, so > ethhanol blended fuel is reaching this area, despite the pr oblems it creates > with boat engines and fuel systems. There may be more b oats than cars in the > Keys and lots of snow birds who leave boats unused for months inviting > condensation and atmospheric moisture absorption into the fuel leading to > settleout. I would hate to run low on fuel out on th e ocean beyond anchor > depth and switch to a tank that was loaded with set tleout. Power boats turn > into "sail boats" and with prevailing winds out of the NE I might get to visit > Fidel and his buddies in Cuba.> > BJ N154K > 443-480-1023> do not archive> > Chuck Popenoe :> > > d o pumps have to have a decal > > disclosing an Ethanol or Alcohol mixture?> > > > > > > > Answer is NO! Except in certain states which have mandated t his requirement.> > It seems that MD and VA have not!> > > > > > > > Chuck> > > > > > > > Avid N113P > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG. > > 3/27/2008 > > 7:15 PM> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- --------> This message was sent using Delmarva Online's Webmail.> http://ww =====> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:22 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wanted Starting motor From: "john beirne" Hi I have just purchased a starter from this company. it is identical to the one removed. http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/ws1?&caSKU=ws1&caTitle=100%25%20NEW%20Seadoo%20Starter%20580%20650%20GTS%20GTX%20SP%20SPX%20XP%20WS1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173302#173302 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:43 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Wanted Starting motor John, What engine did you replace the starter on? Do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wanted Starting motor> From: jmcb@o ceanfree.net> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:11:32 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matron .net>> > Hi> I have just purchased a starter from this company. it is ident ical to the one removed.> > http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/ws1? &caSKU=ws1&caTitle=100%25%20NEW%20Seadoo%20Starter%20580%20650%20GTS%20 GTX%20SP%20SPX%20XP%20WS1> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://f ======================> > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:48 PM PST US From: Chris Budd Subject: Kitfox-List: Tundra Tires Hi everyone, Does anyone have the GoodYear 26" tundra tires on there KF? They fit on the 6x6 rims. They look great! However they are very pricey. If anyone has them I curious what they think of them? I am also thinking about going with some AirTrac 8.50x6-6 tires. Does anyone have these? What you think of them and how big/tall are they? I would also like to know how tall the 8.00x6-6 tires are as well. I know the 8.00 tires are a little lighter. Any info would be great. Chris... Kitfox IV Speedster VW 2180 76hp 220+ hrs No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text1.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:26 PM PST US From: jerry evans Subject: Kitfox-List: gas door struts install? How are you guys installing the strut to the door frames and inside the plane ANY pictures? Thanks Jerry Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. N582'er' kitfox 555 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:49 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: gas door struts install? It's rough but it works. This is right beside the seat... A piece of angle turned into a bracket and held to the frame behind the seat with worm gear clamps. I did have to cur small holes in the back of the seat. The strut is outboard enough to give an over centre situation to help keep the door closed. Door Lift 2.jpg This is the whole ball of wax. The upper support is another angle bracket designed to assist in the over centre on closing. Itr is also held in place with worm clamps. (hose clamps) So far I only have struts on the left side. Total cost was to read an OBDII error at a local scrap yard. And four hose clamps J Three years now and it's still secure... It does get checked before each flight Door Strut.jpg Hope this helps. Same plane below. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jerry evans Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: gas door struts install? How are you guys installing the strut to the door frames and inside the plane ANY pictures? Thanks Jerry Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. N582'er' kitfox 555 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:28 PM PST US From: "Glenn Horne" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? We do here in Virginia. 100 percent Ethanol. GLENN HORNE Kitfox Model II ----- Original Message ----- From: jeff puls To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? This brings up another question, do pumps have to have a decal desclosing an Ethenol or Alcohol mixture? Jeff Classic IV KTZR ----- Original Message ----- From: RAY Gignac To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:29 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? Too bad you can't drink it... They put something in it to make it non drinkable. From what I understand you can't distil the crap out to make it palatable. Before putting it in your car consider... you will have to use around 1.4 gal of eth to go as far as you would go on 1 gal of gas... The idea its cleaner is only if you ignore the CO2 given off in the fermentation process (it does burn cleaner)... it takes more than a gallon of diesel to grow the corn, ferment the alcohol and ship one gallon of eth to your station then you are closer to 50% the power of a gallon of diesel. A professor, I believe from M.I.T.,was on the Discovery Channel. He said spectrum analysis of burning ethanol shows an organic compound being given off that really eats the ozone layers. I've been trying to find the program again to document the details. I really can't see why anyone would want to burn ethanol. Use it to clean your printer instead. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? We do here in Virginia. 100 percent Ethanol. GLENN HORNE Kitfox Model II ----- Original Message ----- From: jeff puls Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:09 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? This brings up another question, do pumps have to have a decal desclosing an Ethenol or Alcohol mixture? Jeff Classic IV KTZR ----- Original Message ----- From: RAY Gignac Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:05 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? _____ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:52 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas door struts install? My Model IV Speedster fuselage had the brackets welded on by the factory, and the door end of the strut was attached by a bracket that was a piece of tubing with ears welded perpendicular to opposite sides of the tube. The tube was then cut in half along it's length, leaving you with two half-tubes with a perpendicular bracket sticking up. These half-tubes were riveted to the door frame at a position that would give you an slight over-center position to the strut-to- door relationship, helping to keep the door closed. This feature was called a "Cabin Door Gas Spring Kit". For some reason I didn't shoot the process when I did it, but I can shoot pics tomorrow if it would help you. You really wouldn't have to have the brackets welded to the fuselage or the door, but some welding would be necessary to build the tubes themselves. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual On Mar 28, 2008, at 6:57 PM, jerry evans wrote: > How are you guys installing the strut to the door frames and inside > the plane ANY pictures? Thanks Jerry > > Jerry Evans > 96% done 582 > Magalia Calif. > N582'er' > kitfox 555 > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:53 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gasoline Question? From: "Tom Jones" [quote="patreilly43(at)hotmail.co"]B. Jones, What method do you use to test gasoline for ethanol? Do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 rebuild Rockford, IL [quote] Pat, I use a half gallon clear mouth wash bottle. Put about an ounce of water in and mark the water level while the bottle sits upside down. Fill about half way up with fuel and shake it up then set it on its lid for a few minutes. any alochol will absorb the water and settle out with the water and be seen as a level above your line. The picture attached shows no alochol. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173362#173362 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/alochol_test_138.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:24 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Gasoline Question? Tom, OK, That would be the method Noel explained to use on a bigger scale t o "wash" alcohol out of gasoline and siphon the gas off the top or drain th e water off the bottom. Do not archive Thanks Pat Reilly > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gasoline Question?> From: nahsikhs@e lltel.net> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:29:38 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics >> > [quote="patreilly43(at)hotmail.co"]B. Jones, What method do you use to test gasoline for ethanol?> > Do not archive> > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 rebui ld> Rockford, IL> [quote] > > Pat, I use a half gallon clear mouth wash bot tle. Put about an ounce of water in and mark the water level while the bott le sits upside down. Fill about half way up with fuel and shake it up then set it on its lid for a few minutes. any alochol will absorb the water and settle out with the water and be seen as a level above your line. The pictu re attached shows no alochol.> > --------> Tom Jones> Classic IV> 503 Rotax , 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ellensburg, WA> > > > > Read this topic online he re:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173362#173362> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/alochol_test_138.jpg> ===> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:01 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Black paint From: "rcsfca" Paint jobs that are predominantly black are rather rare but I've come up with a re-paint scheme that is exactly that, although the design includes substantial red and orange stripes for contrast. Has anyone taken a close look at the use (or rejection) of black paint as it relates to excessive cabin heating on sunny days, gas tank expansion, or navigation perception problems? Or other troubles, if any? Rich Cunningham Model IV - 1200/912 SF Bay Area Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173371#173371 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:46 PM PST US From: jerry evans Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gas door struts install? This is great info if you have more pic I would love to see Thanks for all your time My Model IV Speedster fuselage had the brackets welded on by the factory, and the door end of the strut was attached by a bracket that was a piece of tubing with ears welded perpendicular to opposite sides of the tube. The tube was then cut in half along it's length, leaving you with two half-tubes with a perpendicular bracket sticking up. These half-tubes were riveted to the door frame at a position that would give you an slight over-center position to the strut-to- door relationship, helping to keep the door closed. This feature was called a "Cabin Door Gas Spring Kit". For some reason I didn't shoot the process when I did it, but I can shoot pics tomorrow if it would help you. You really wouldn't have to have the brackets welded to the fuselage or the door, but some welding would be necessary to build the tubes themselves. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual On Mar 28, 2008, at 6:57 PM, jerry evans wrote: > How are you guys installing the strut to the door frames and inside > the plane ANY pictures? Thanks Jerry > > Jerry Evans > 96% done 582 > Magalia Calif. > N582'er' > kitfox 555 > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. 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