---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/31/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: New windshield material (andynfultz@bellsouth.net) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: Cowling spacing (dcsfoto) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Gasoline Question? (Noel Loveys) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Catz631@aol.com) 5. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (RAY Gignac) 6. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Lynn Matteson) 7. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Lynn Matteson) 8. 08:14 AM - Re: Bing carbs (avidfox) 9. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 10. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Lynn Matteson) 11. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Lynn Matteson) 12. 12:49 PM - Re: New windshield material (Andy Fultz) 13. 12:52 PM - Re: New windshield material (patrick reilly) 14. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: skis (patrick reilly) 15. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (patrick reilly) 16. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Bing carbs (Lynn Matteson) 17. 02:15 PM - Re: Wanted Starting motor (dave) 18. 02:28 PM - Re: New windshield material (dave) 19. 03:15 PM - Re: Re: skis (84KF) 20. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: skis (patrick reilly) 21. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: New windshield material (Andy Fultz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:03 AM PST US From: andynfultz@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New windshield material ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:36 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cowling spacing From: "dcsfoto" the UHS spinner plate mounts on the front face of the prop. I have Warp and IVO,IVO is much easier to adjust. I cut a round plywood plate the size of the spinner,mounted it to the engine flange and spaced my cowl using that. Do not arcive David Model 7 Model 3 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173841#173841 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:52 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? Same thing on this side of the 49th. Noel Do not archive From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:35 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? Michel, Right on! Burning your food for energy when you have oil is about as dumb as you can get. You have to be economically ignorant not to see the dedrimental repercussion to our food prices and supply. But, then most of Americans are, and sadly enough to say that inculdes our politicians that are mainly just concerned with getting reelected. We have a few good politicians, but damn few. Do not archive Pat Reilly > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 11:59:51 -0230 > > > Michel: > > I think you would be surprised to find there are many people who think > ethanol production is god's answer to fuel shortage. One of the problems is > there is so much contradictory info out there. One has to dig deep always > asking the question is there an ulterior motive to info. > > The cases you describe do not entail removing thousands of acres of the > world's prime farm land to produce ethanol. I'm in full agreement that a > farmer with a small still can make his own hooch for pennies a gallon using > scraps from the back 40 but when he ramps up for commercial production the > costs rise exponentially. To add insult to injury the costs of dependent > (pork, chicken, cornflakes etc.) foods also rise. > > I can see where limited ethanol fuel production of otherwise useless > materials is a big plus. Production quantities will probably be fairly > small and concentrations of ethanol in gas would also be very small. It > would just be a way of getting rid of unwanted substance with the added > benefit of higher octane rating. The efficiency of production on small > scale would also be a lot higher than the U.S. model. In short it's a > different wheel on a different cart. > > Why not use this slow process ethanol for consumption.. Let's face it a > litre of whisky brings a higher price than a gallon of E100. That could > stimulate a country's economy. > > Noel > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel > Verheughe > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:26 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Gasoline Question? > > > From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca] > > Before putting it in your car consider... > > Noel, growing corn to produce ethanol and use fossile fuel in the process of > making it is pure madness and the result of a panic measure of the US > government; everybody surely must agree with that. > But burning what we grow instead of fossile fuel that was meant to recycle > millions of years ago, make sense. Here, in Norway, we are considering > producing at a very slow pace ethanol from waste, such as biologic household > waste and timber industry. The energy to produce it then must be taken from > another non fossile source such as hydro-electric energy or ... ethanol > itself. > I recently read that in Africa there is a tree that I unfortunately forgot > the name of, which produces a fruit that is not proper to human consumption > or anything else. Yet the tree grows in very dry climate and the fruit can > be used to produce ethanol that can help those countries to produce their > own fuel thus reducing their foreign debt mostly due to the import of crude > fossile oil. > So, the answer to our need for energy is not to forget ethanol but not to > panic and plan a viable solution there where it works best. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > Do not archive > > > 

> 
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.c
> om/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution
> 
>  
> 
> 


________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 05:56:38 AM PST US
From: Catz631@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs

Lynn,
  I attended the Lockwood school in Jan. We tore a carb completely apart and 
reassembled it as part of the school. The diaphragm is normally replaced do to

time on the rubber part.(unless damaged of course) I replaced my diaphragms 
when I returned home from the school. The old ones appeared fine so I really 
doubt they needed it. I remember from the class that it is really easy to get 
the cast rubber protrusion on the diaphragm out of alignment with the 
corresponding slot in the carb casting. You have to hold it in the slot with your
thumb 
while you assemble the two halves. The diaphragm is NOT glued down in any 
fashion.
  I don't know if this relates to your problem but you might check, if you 
have to disassemble them. I know I replaced the needles (again do the time on 
the rubber tips) and ended up going back to the originals because of fuel 
spitting out of the intakes.(springs too strong on the new needles I think)
  Please let us know what the problem was when you find it!
                                                   Thanks,Dick Maddux
                                                               Fox4-1200
                                                               Rotax 912UL
                                                               Pensacola,Fl 


**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL 
Home.      
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)

________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 06:43:25 AM PST US
From: RAY Gignac 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


Bad news, I called Bing about our Bing 64's, they said they will not work o
n the carbs used in aircraft, but will sell the parts to do your self.

Ray> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs> Date
: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:07:26 -0400> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kit
fox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Well, the b
oot looks good at this time. And the fact that this > problem just started 
when I swapped jets makes one think that's the > area to be looking for the
 cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my > carb, and this is the first time 
I've been into the carb this far. I > will get the lowdown on the carb tomo
rrow, I hope, when I talk to the > techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seem
s like a test of some sort > could be performed on the diaphragm without th
e spring in place, > letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able
 to hold air > without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that
 holds > the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It se
ems > to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be > 
made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read > somewher
e that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.> > I'm hoping to b
uy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV > carbs. I only hope it's 
better than the aircraft carb tuning and > parts manual I bought....dark pi
ctures with arrows that point into > the picture, supposedly showing a part
icular part, but the arrow gets > lost in the dark picture, so you don't kn
ow where it's pointing. And > it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs.
..very little on the CV > carbs.> > I see that Bing offers a service of cor
recting distortion in certain > parts, so this must be a common problem.> >
 > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> 
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual> > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick
 reilly wrote:> > > Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure yo
u aren't > > leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned > > 
"diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I > > foole
d with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor > > gave me fits
 because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs > > that I had clea
ned and was distorting them when screwing the carb > > top back on. I don't
 know, maybe?> >> > do not archive> >> > Pat Reilly> >> > > From: lynnmatt@
jps.net> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs> > > Date: Sun, 30 Ma
r 2008 15:39:29 -0400> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > >> > > --> Kitf
ox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > >> > > Thank
s Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or dirt> > > in the
 jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,> > > I've neve
r seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty> > > blue 100LL in
 the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The> > > perplexing thing is t
hat the engine was running fine, but I > > wanted to> > > get the EGT's dow
n a few degrees, so I went up to the next size> > > needle jet, and it balk
ed at running in the mid-range, so I went > > back> > > to the original jet
, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed> > > something up in the mid-ran
ge transition area of the carb, but this> > > thing is so wonderfully simpl
e that it's hard to see what could have> > > gone wrong. I can't wait until
 Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow> > > so I can get some suggestions.> 
> >> > > Lynn Matteson> > > Grass Lake, Michigan> > > Kitfox IV Speedster w
/Jabiru 2200> > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual> > >> > >> > >> > > On 
Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:> > >> > > > --> Kitfox-List messag
e posted by: "akflyer" > > > > > >> > > > Make sure
 the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down> > > > on the jett
ing and it does not change, that would point towards a> > > > blockage in t
he circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you.> > > >> > > > -------->
 > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE> > > > Leonard Perry> > > > Soldotna AK> > > > Avid &
quot;C" / Mk IV> > > > 582 IVO IFA> > > > Full Lotus 1260> > > > 95% c
omplete> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Read this topic online here:> > 
> >> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706> > >
 >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ><==========
===> > >> > >> > >> >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Li
st_- > > ======================
============= _- > > forums.matronics.com_- > > 
========== _- > > contribution_- > > ======
======> > > 
_________________________________________________________________
How well do you know your celebrity gossip?
http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A

________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 07:24:15 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


I'll let you know, Dick. Right now I'm replacing fuel lines firewall  
forward, and checking fuel flow before and after.
Yes, I see how that diaphragm could get out of the slot. I've had the  
carb home here while I watched the race yesterday, just tinkering  
with it and reading the Big manual. I'm gonna gt real well acquainted  
with it before this problem is over. I'm also gonna try one of my old  
float needles, just to try something else.

Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual


On Mar 31, 2008, at 8:53 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote:

> Lynn,
>   I attended the Lockwood school in Jan. We tore a carb completely  
> apart and reassembled it as part of the school. The diaphragm is  
> normally replaced do to time on the rubber part.(unless damaged of  
> course) I replaced my diaphragms when I returned home from the  
> school. The old ones appeared fine so I really doubt they needed  
> it. I remember from the class that it is really easy to get the  
> cast rubber protrusion on the diaphragm out of alignment with the  
> corresponding slot in the carb casting. You have to hold it in the  
> slot with your thumb while you assemble the two halves. The  
> diaphragm is NOT glued down in any fashion.
>   I don't know if this relates to your problem but you might check,  
> if you have to disassemble them. I know I replaced the needles  
> (again do the time on the rubber tips) and ended up going back to  
> the originals because of fuel spitting out of the intakes.(springs  
> too strong on the new needles I think)
>   Please let us know what the problem was when you find it!
>                                                    Thanks,Dick Maddux
>                                                                 
> Fox4-1200
>                                                                 
> Rotax 912UL
>                                                                 
> Pensacola,Fl
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 
> www.matronics.com/contribution _- 
> ===========================================================


________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 07:28:54 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


The Jabiru uses a CV carb, a 40mm, and sells the manual for aircraft  
carbs, so they must know that they are being used. Or is it just the  
64's that should not be used? No matter, they are sold to Jabiru as  
an aircraft carb, and Rotax uses them as well...maybe not the 40mm,  
but a CV carb just the same. Of course, the lawyers will deny that  
they approve any part for aircraft use.

Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual


On Mar 31, 2008, at 9:37 AM, RAY Gignac wrote:

> Bad news, I called Bing about our Bing 64's, they said they will  
> not work on the carbs used in aircraft, but will sell the parts to  
> do your self.
>
> Ray
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs
> > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:07:26 -0400
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this
> > problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the
> > area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my
> > carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I
> > will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to  
> the
> > techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort
> > could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,
> > letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air
> > without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds
> > the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It  
> seems
> > to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be
> > made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read
> > somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.
> >
> > I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV
> > carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and
> > parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into
> > the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow  
> gets
> > lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And
> > it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV
> > carbs.
> >
> > I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain
> > parts, so this must be a common problem.
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
> >
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> >
> > > Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't
> > > leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned
> > > "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I
> > > fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor
> > > gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the  
> carbs
> > > that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb
> > > top back on. I don't know, maybe?
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > Pat Reilly
> > >
> > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs
> > > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400
> > > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > > >
> 
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage  
> or dirt
> > > > in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt  
> with,
> > > > I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but  
> pretty
> > > > blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The
> > > > perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I
> > > wanted to
> > > > get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size
> > > > needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went
> > > back
> > > > to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed
> > > > something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb,  
> but this
> > > > thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what  
> could have
> > > > gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines  
> tomorrow
> > > > so I can get some suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > Lynn Matteson
> > > > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > > > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > > > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up  
> or down
> > > > > on the jetting and it does not change, that would point  
> towards a
> > > > > blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for  
> you.
> > > > >
> > > > > --------
> > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > > > > Leonard Perry
> > > > > Soldotna AK
> > > > > Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > > > > 582 IVO IFA
> > > > > Full Lotus 1260
> > > > > 95% complete
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ><============
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-
> > > =================================== _-
> > > forums.matronics.com_-
> > > ========== _-
> > > contribution_-
> > > ===============================
> &g=
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> How well do you know your celebrity gossip? Talk celebrity  
> smackdowns here._- 
> ============================================================ _- 
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 
> ============================================================ _- 
> forums.matronics.com_- 
> ============================================================ _- 
> contribution_- 
> ===========================================================


________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 08:14:46 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs
From: "avidfox" 


Lynn,
  Question:  Is the carb you use the same as on a 64 used on the Rotax 912UL? I
have not researched this.
If so, you could install one, or both, of mine for trouble shooting purposes. I
don't anticipate flying much for a while....got some jobs to do.
About  80 hrs TT and working fine.
It would require a drive to Howell (OZW) airport, but you're a travlin' man.

Steve
84KF @ OZW


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173888#173888


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 08:24:16 AM PST US
From: kerrjohna@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs

mid range has been the most challenging part of tuning the bings for me.  have
you tried raising the needle/lowering the circlip?

installing the R3600 in a Hatz Classic.  almost done with the rough plumbing and
wiring so I can drop the engine and cover the fuselage.  I figure it will take
about a year to finish up.

John

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Lynn Matteson  

> 
> Hi John- 
> After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went 
> into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great. 
> It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is 
> the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the 
> main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and 
> it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid- 
> range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be 
> oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If 
> this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum leak 
> would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not well anyway. 
> I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't 
> done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on 
> this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise. 
> Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale 
> Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb 
> into shape. : ) 
> 
> What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres 
> from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a 
> 'fox. I just googled his site: 
> 
> www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm 
> 
> 
> Lynn Matteson 
> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 
> 
> 
> On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: 
> 
> > 
> > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the 
> > main jet from the bowl? 
> > 
> > If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented 
> > properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate 
> > indentation. 
> > 
> > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean 
> > for some reason. 
> > 
> > Sorry not to be more helpful 
> > 
> > John Kerr 
> > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing 
> > 
> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- 
> > From: Lynn Matteson 
> >> 
> >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this 
> >> problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the 
> >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my 
> >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far. I 
> >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to the 
> >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort 
> >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place, 
> >> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air 
> >> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds 
> >> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems 
> >> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be 
> >> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read 
> >> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in, but not sure. 
> >> 
> >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV 
> >> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and 
> >> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point into 
> >> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the arrow gets 
> >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And 
> >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV 
> >> carbs. 
> >> 
> >> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in certain 
> >> parts, so this must be a common problem. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Lynn Matteson 
> >> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote: 
> >> 
> >>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't 
> >>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned 
> >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not since I 
> >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor 
> >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the carbs 
> >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the carb 
> >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe? 
> >>> 
> >>> do not archive 
> >>> 
> >>> Pat Reilly 
> >>> 
> >>>> From: lynnmatt@jps.net 
> >>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs 
> >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400 
> >>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or 
> >>>> dirt 
> >>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with, 
> >>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty 
> >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The 
> >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I 
> >>> wanted to 
> >>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size 
> >>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went 
> >>> back 
> >>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed 
> >>>> something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this 
> >>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could 
> >>>> have 
> >>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow 
> >>>> so I can get some suggestions. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Lynn Matteson 
> >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up or down 
> >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a 
> >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> -------- 
> >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE 
> >>>>> Leonard Perry 
> >>>>> Soldotna AK 
> >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV 
> >>>>> 582 IVO IFA 
> >>>>> Full Lotus 1260 
> >>>>> 95% complete 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Read this topic online here: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> <============= 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>> 
> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 
> >>> ============================================================ _- 
> >>> forums.matronics.com_- 
> >>> ============================================================ _- 
> >>> contribution_- 
> >>> ============================================================ 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


mid range has been the most challenging part of tuning the bings for me. 
have you tried raising the needle/lowering the circlip?


 


installing the R3600 in a Hatz Classic.  almost done with the rough plumbing
and wiring so I can drop the engine and cover the fuselage.  I figure
it will take about a year to finish up.


 


John


 


-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net> 

> --> Kitfox-List message posted by:
Lynn Matteson 
> 
> Hi John- 
> After this
problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went 
> into the
top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great. 
> It wasn't
the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is 
> the "cruise
jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the 
> main jet on
what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and 
> it's the one
that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid- 
> range mixture.
I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be 
> oriented correctly
into the indentation, and of course it was. If 
> this were to be assembled
out of line, I'd think that a vacuum leak >
 would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not well anyway. 
> I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't 
> done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on 
> this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise. 
> Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale 
> Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb 
> into shape. : ) 
> 
> What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres 
> from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a 
> 'fox. I just googled his site: 
> 
> www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm 
> 
> 
> Lynn Matteson 
> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual 
> 
> 
> On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: 
> <
 BR>>
; > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kerrjohna@comcast.net 
> >

> > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change
the 
> > main jet from the bowl? 
> > 
> > If from
the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented 
> > properly with
the index nub properly seated in the appropriate 
> > indentation.

> > 
> > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak
to being lean 
> > for some reason. 
> > 
> > Sorry
not to be more helpful 
> > 
> > John Kerr 
> >
912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing 
> > 
> > -------------- Original
message ---------------------- 
> > From: Lynn Matteson 
>
>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson

> >> 
> >> Well, the boot looks
good at this time. And the fact that this 
> &
 gt;>
; problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think that's the 
>
>> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my 
>
>> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this far.
I 
> >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when
I talk to the 
> >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like
a test of some sort 
> >> could be performed on the diaphragm without
the spring in place, 
> >> letting you know whether or not
the diaphragm was able to hold air 
> >> without leaking. Just for
the record, there is a spring that holds 
> >> the diaphragm and
the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems 
> >> to me that
if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be 
> >> made
to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read 
> >>
somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in
 , but 
not sure. 
> >> 
> >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing
sells on overhauling the CV 
> >> carbs. I only hope it's better
than the aircraft carb tuning and 
> >> parts manual I bought....dark
pictures with arrows that point into 
> >> the picture, supposedly
showing a particular part, but the arrow gets 
> >> lost in
the dark picture, so you don't know where it's pointing. And 
> >>
it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on the CV 
>
>> carbs. 
> >> 
> >> I see that Bing offers a
service of correcting distortion in certain 
> >> parts, so this
must be a common problem. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>
Lynn Matteson 
> >> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> >> Kitfox
IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual

> >> 
> >> 
> >&
 gt; On
 Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote: 
> >> 
> >>>
Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't 
>
>>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned 
>
>>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not
since I 
> >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda
interceptor 
> >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the
diaphrams down in the carbs 
> >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting
them when screwing the carb 
> >>> top back on. I don't
know, maybe? 
> >>> 
> >>> do not archive 
>
>>> 
> >>> Pat Reilly 
> >>> 
>
>>>> From: lynnmatt@jps.net 
> >>>> Subject:
Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs 
> >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar
2008 15:39:29 -0400 
> >>>> To: kit
 fox-li
st@matronics.com 
> >>>> 
> >>>> --> Kitfox-List
message posted by: Lynn Matteson 
> >>>>

> >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's
no blockage or 
> >>>> dirt 
> >>>> in
the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with, 
> >>>>
I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty

> >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through.
The 
> >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was
running fine, but I 
> >>> wanted to 
> >>>>
get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size 
> >>>>
needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I went 
>
>>> back 
> >>>> to the original jet, and it
still balked. Obviously I screwed 
> >>
 >&g
t; something up in the mid-range transition area of the carb, but this 
>
>>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could

> >>>> have 
> >>>> gone wrong. I can't
wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow 
> >>>> so
I can get some suggestions. 
> >>>> 
> >>>>
Lynn Matteson 
> >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan 
> >>>>
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 
> >>>> flying
w/480+ hrs/down for annual 
> >>>> 
> >>>>

> >>>> 
> >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45
PM, akflyer wrote: 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> -->
Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 
> >>> 
>
>>>>> 
> >>>>> Make
sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go u
 p or d
own 
> >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towards a 
> >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you. 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> -------- 
> >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE 
> >>>>> Leonard Perry 
> >>>>> Soldotna AK 
> >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV 
> >>>>> 582 IVO IFA 
> >>>>> Full Lotus 1260 
> >>>>> 95% complete 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Read this topic online here: 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
 
&g
 y List








________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 10:51:17 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


For some  reason the Jabiru mods to the carb include using a  
"proprietary" needle, using just one groove. Later Service Bulletins  
have you installing a 2-groove needle which is fatter at the top (low  
range and idle) and a larger needle jet, to control EGT's a little  
better.
I'm thinkin' positive that I will reinstall carb, light it up and  
it'll be ready to fly! Perhaps God has different ideas though,  
because it's foggier than hell here today. : )

Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
do not archive


On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:20 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:

> mid range has been the most challenging part of tuning the bings  
> for me.  have you tried raising the needle/lowering the circlip?
>
> installing the R3600 in a Hatz Classic.  almost done with the rough  
> plumbing and wiring so I can drop the engine and cover the  
> fuselage.  I figure it will take about a year to finish up.
>
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Lynn Matteson 
>
> >
> > Hi John-
> > After this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and  
> went
> > into the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks  
> great.
> > It wasn't the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is
> > the "cruise jet" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the
> > main jet on what they call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and
> > it's the one that the needle slides in and out of, changing the mid-
> > range mixture. I had read earlier that there was a tab that must be
> > oriented correctly into the indentation, and of course it was. If
> > this were to be assembled out of line, I'd think that a vacuum  
> leak > would exist, and running the engine might not happen...not  
> well anyway.
> > I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in place, but this wasn't
> > done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get Bing's take on
> > this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise.
> > Right now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale
> > Earnhardt, hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb
> > into shape. : )
> >
> > What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres
> > from Olathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec  
> in a
> > 'fox. I just googled his site:
> >
> > www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.htm
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Grass Lake, Michigan
> > Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
> >
> >
> > On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> > >
> > > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just change the
> > > main jet from the bowl?
> > >
> > > If from the top is is critical that the diaphra be oriented
> > > properly with the index nub properly seated in the appropriate
> > > indentation.
> > >
> > > Applying the enrichener for improvement does speak to being lean
> > > for some reason.
> > >
> > > Sorry not to be more helpful
> > >
> > > John Kerr
> > > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > From: Lynn Matteson
> > >>
> > >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the fact that this
> > & gt;> ; problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think  
> that's the
> > >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued in my
> > >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this  
> far. I
> > >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk  
> to the
> > >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some  
> sort
> > >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,
> > >> letting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold  
> air
> > >> without leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that  
> holds
> > >> the diaphragm and the sliding piston in its lowest position.  
> It seems
> > >> to me that if this spring was removed temporarily, a test  
> could be
> > >> made to show the "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read
> > >> somewhere that the diaphragms need to be glued in , but not sure.
> > >>
> > >> I'm hoping to buy the DVD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV
> > >> carbs. I only hope it's better than the aircraft carb tuning and
> > >> parts manual I bought....dark pictures with arrows that point  
> into
> > >> the picture, supposedly showing a particular part, but the  
> arrow gets
> > >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't know where it's  
> pointing. And
> > >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carbs...very little on  
> the CV
> > >> carbs.
> > >>
> > >> I see that Bing offers a service of correcting distortion in  
> certain
> > >> parts, so this must be a common problem.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Lynn Matteson
> > >> Grass Lake, Michigan
> > >> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
> > >>
> > >>
> > >& gt; On Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Lynn, Someone already mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't
> > >>> leaking air in around the carb boots. Also, you mentioned
> > >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a bing carb, at least not  
> since I
> > >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an early Honda interceptor
> > >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaphrams down in the  
> carbs
> > >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when screwing the  
> carb
> > >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe?
> > >>>
> > >>> do not archive
> > >>>
> > >>> Pat Reilly
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs
> > >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0400
> > >>>> To: kit fox-li st@matronics.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks Leonard, but I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or
> > >>>> dirt
> > >>>> in the jets that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt  
> with,
> > >>>> I've never seen a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but  
> pretty
> > >>>> blue 100LL in the bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The
> > >>>> perplexing thing is that the engine was running fine, but I
> > >>> wanted to
> > >>>> get the EGT's down a few degrees, so I went up to the next size
> > >>>> needle jet, and it balked at running in the mid-range, so I  
> went
> > >>> back
> > >>>> to the original jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed
> > >> >&g t; something up in the mid-range transition area of the  
> carb, but this
> > >>>> thing is so wonderfully simple that it's hard to see what could
> > >>>> have
> > >>>> gone wrong. I can't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines  
> tomorrow
> > >>>> so I can get some suggestions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Lynn Matteson
> > >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan
> > >>>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> > >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go u p  
> or d own
> > >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point  
> towards a
> > >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for  
> you.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --------
> > >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > >>>>> Leonard Perry
> > >>>>> Soldotna AK
> > >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > >>>>> 582 IVO IFA
> > >>>>> Full Lotus 1260
> > >>>>> 95% complete
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Read this topic online here:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173706#173706
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> &g y List _- 
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 
> www.matronics.com/contribution _- 
> ===========================================================


________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 11:03:26 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


Thanks for the offer, Steve, but I think the 64 is a different breed.  
My carb ( a 94 CV) is the constant depression (does this describe the  
way people feel who work on the damn things?) carb, also known as a  
CV...don't ask me why, and the person I talked to at Bing didn't know  
the connection. Suffice it to say that constant velocity and constant  
depression mean the same thing to Bing. I got some good feedback from  
Bing, including the diagnosis that my diaphragm is probably ok, and  
there is no test, as I had hoped, to tell whether or not it was good  
other than a visual, and that it did not "flop all over the place."  
So I'm putting it back together, changing some fuel lines, and if all  
goes well I'll report what I did.

Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual


On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:11 AM, avidfox wrote:

>
> Lynn,
>   Question:  Is the carb you use the same as on a 64 used on the  
> Rotax 912UL? I have not researched this.
> If so, you could install one, or both, of mine for trouble shooting  
> purposes. I don't anticipate flying much for a while....got some  
> jobs to do.
> About  80 hrs TT and working fine.
> It would require a drive to Howell (OZW) airport, but you're a  
> travlin' man.
>
> Steve
> 84KF @ OZW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173888#173888
>
>


________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 12:49:04 PM PST US
From: "Andy Fultz" 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New windshield material

Pat,
  I see that the message I sent earlier was blank, so here it is again.
  That was me.  I asked about the use of PTEG vs Lexan.  Someone here had
mentioned that product.  It is considerably less expensive than Lexan and is
supposed to have about the same properties.  If you want to e-mail me direct
it is andynfultz@bellsouth.net .  Thanks

Andy F.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
  Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 5:07 PM
  To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
  Subject: Kitfox-List: New windshield material


  Who asked a month ago about a new plexiglass material supplied out of
Ohio? I bought a sheet, have some experience to share. And, I can't believe
I can't find any of the paperwork on the material and don't remember the
supplier .

  do not archive

  Pat Reilly


________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 12:52:23 PM PST US
From: patrick reilly 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New windshield material


Andy, Your e-mail came through blank. I found the paper work from K-Mac fro
m, not Ohio, but MI. The product is PETg Vivak. I used the .080 thick sheet
 to build a windshield. I am building a 2 piece windshield. The cabin top i
s made of .125 tinted plexi, the windshield .080 clear Vivak. I will overla
p and rivet the 2 pcs at the crossbar at top of windshield portion. The Viv
ak is indestructible. I cut it with sheetmetal shears. It is softer than re
gular acrylic plexiglass. And, formable at 200 degreees F. It appears to sc
ratch easier. I don't know how easy it is to polish scratches out of. I wou
ld guess it would not polish as easy as acrylic as it is softer and the scr
atches are deeper. It is very flexible, not as stiff as acrylic. Would I re
commend it? So far so good but school isn't out yet on the servicabilty of 
the material. Very forgiving to work with. You can't fracture it like acryl
ic of Lexan.


> From: andynfultz@bellsouth.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: R
e: Kitfox-List: New windshield material> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:00:43 +0
000> > > 

________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 01:05:13 PM PST US
From: patrick reilly 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: skis


Steve, What does the term, cold seizure, refer to? I thought it was caused 
by cooling the engine below operating temps too quickly on no power decent 
and having rings sieze. Does this happen and wouldn't a thermostat prevent 
this?

Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL


@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis
"....Wouldn't a (coolant) thermostat be necessary to run in winter in a col
d climate?"

Necessary? No.
Desired for comfort? Perhaps.
The engine was not designed with one, not necessary..., and there is no min
imum head temp given in the Operations Manual, (10.1  General operating Lim
itations)....just the max.

Nothing wrong with running cool cylinders, and low head temps in cold weath
er is just a direct reflection of coolant temps at the cylinders. (Note: co
olant temp is not being displayed on the gauge, it's head temp..)

Steve 
84KF
KF5\912UL


________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 01:07:10 PM PST US
From: patrick reilly 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


Lynn, There wasn't any glue on the Honda Interceptor carb diaphrams from th
e factoy either. But, I gave up took the bike to a dealer, and he said all 
he did was lightly rubber cement the diaphram to the carb body to avoid dis
torition of the diaphram when screwing the carb top back on. I don't know i
f that is what is happening. Maybe?

Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
  > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs> Date:
 Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:01:23 -0400> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitf
ox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson > > Hi John-> Af
ter this problem came up, I pulled the carb off the engine and went > into 
the top to see what shape the diaphragm was in...it looks great. > It wasn'
t the main jet that I changed, but the needle jet. This is > the "cruise je
t" more or less. It's the one that sits just above the > main jet on what t
hey call the Mixing Tube (a/k/a Jet Stock), and > it's the one that the nee
dle slides in and out of, changing the mid- > range mixture. I had read ear
lier that there was a tab that must be > oriented correctly into the indent
ation, and of course it was. If > this were to be assembled out of line, I'
d think that a vacuum leak > would exist, and running the engine might not 
happen...not well anyway.> I've also heard of gluing this diaphragm in plac
e, but this wasn't > done on my carb that I could detect anyway. I'll get B
ing's take on > this practice, unless somebody can tell me otherwise.> Righ
t now I've got the carb sitting in front of a picture of Dale > Earnhardt, 
hoping that the Intimidator's glare will whip the carb > into shape. : )> >
 What have you got the Rotec in, John? A Kitfox? I met Joe Meyeres > from O
lathe, KS at last year's Oshkosh, and he has a 7 cyl Rotec in a > 'fox. I j
ust googled his site:> > www.rotecradialengines.com/customers/joemeyeres.ht
m> > > Lynn Matteson> Grass Lake, Michigan> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 22
00> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual> > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, ke
a@comcast.net> >> > Lynn, did you disassemble the carb from the top or just
 change the > > main jet from the bowl?> >> > If from the top is is critica
l that the diaphra be oriented > > properly with the index nub properly sea
ted in the appropriate > > indentation.> >> > Applying the enrichener for i
mprovement does speak to being lean > > for some reason.> >> > Sorry not to
 be more helpful> >> > John Kerr> > 912ul, rotek 3600 with 40mm Bing> >> > 
-------------- Original message ----------------------> > From: Lynn Mattes
> >>> >> Well, the boot looks good at this time. And the 
fact that this> >> problem just started when I swapped jets makes one think
 that's the> >> area to be looking for the cure. The diaphragm is not glued
 in my> >> carb, and this is the first time I've been into the carb this fa
r. I> >> will get the lowdown on the carb tomorrow, I hope, when I talk to 
the> >> techs at Bing. I'm not sure, but it seems like a test of some sort>
 >> could be performed on the diaphragm without the spring in place,> >> le
tting you know whether or not the diaphragm was able to hold air> >> withou
t leaking. Just for the record, there is a spring that holds> >> the diaphr
agm and the sliding piston in its lowest position. It seems> >> to me that 
if this spring was removed temporarily, a test could be> >> made to show th
e "health" of the diaphragm. It seems like I read> >> somewhere that the di
aphragms need to be glued in, but not sure.> >>> >> I'm hoping to buy the D
VD that Bing sells on overhauling the CV> >> carbs. I only hope it's better
 than the aircraft carb tuning and> >> parts manual I bought....dark pictur
es with arrows that point into> >> the picture, supposedly showing a partic
ular part, but the arrow gets> >> lost in the dark picture, so you don't kn
ow where it's pointing. And> >> it was mostly geared toward ultralight carb
s...very little on the CV> >> carbs.> >>> >> I see that Bing offers a servi
ce of correcting distortion in certain> >> parts, so this must be a common 
problem.> >>> >>> >> Lynn Matteson> >> Grass Lake, Michigan> >> Kitfox IV S
peedster w/Jabiru 2200> >> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual> >>> >>> >> On
 Mar 30, 2008, at 5:49 PM, patrick reilly wrote:> >>> >>> Lynn, Someone alr
eady mentioned it, But are you sure you aren't> >>> leaking air in around t
he carb boots. Also, you mentioned> >>> "diaphram" I have never been in a b
ing carb, at least not since I> >>> fooled with BSA's 100 years ago, but an
 early Honda interceptor> >>> gave me fits because I was't gluing the diaph
rams down in the carbs> >>> that I had cleaned and was distorting them when
 screwing the carb> >>> top back on. I don't know, maybe?> >>>> >>> do not 
archive> >>>> >>> Pat Reilly> >>>> >>>> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> >>>> Subjec
t: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs> >>>> Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:39:29 -0
400> >>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> >>>>> >>>> --> Kitfox-List message
 posted by: Lynn Matteson > >>>>> >>>> Thanks Leonard, bu
t I'm pretty confident there's no blockage or > >>>> dirt> >>>> in the jets
 that I just changed. In all the carbs I've dealt with,> >>>> I've never se
en a carb as clean as this carb...nothing but pretty> >>>> blue 100LL in th
e bowl. All jets are clean clear through. The> >>>> perplexing thing is tha
t the engine was running fine, but I> >>> wanted to> >>>> get the EGT's dow
n a few degrees, so I went up to the next size> >>>> needle jet, and it bal
ked at running in the mid-range, so I went> >>> back> >>>> to the original 
jet, and it still balked. Obviously I screwed> >>>> something up in the mid
-range transition area of the carb, but this> >>>> thing is so wonderfully 
simple that it's hard to see what could > >>>> have> >>>> gone wrong. I can
't wait until Bing opens it's phone lines tomorrow> >>>> so I can get some 
suggestions.> >>>>> >>>> Lynn Matteson> >>>> Grass Lake, Michigan> >>>> Kit
fox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200> >>>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual> >>>
>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2008, at 2:45 PM, akflyer wrote:> >>>>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> >>>>> Make sure the jets do not have any blockage. if you go up o
r down> >>>>> on the jetting and it does not change, that would point towar
ds a> >>>>> blockage in the circuit. A fine piece of wire may do it for you
.> >>>>>> >>>>> --------> >>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE> >>>>> Leonard Perry> >>>>> 
Soldotna AK> >>>>> Avid "C" / Mk IV> >>>>> 582 IVO IFA> >>>>> Ful
l Lotus 1260> >>>>> 95% complete> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Read th
is topic online here:> >>>>>> >>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
hp?p=173706#173706> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> <=
============> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_-> >>> ==========
 _-> >>> forums.matronics.com_-> >>> ============
======================= _-> >
>> contribution_-> >>> =================
==================> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
=======> > > 

________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 02:12:42 PM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Bing carbs


Success! Or a least 99% certain of success. I haven't flown it yet,  
but it looks promising. I ran it up after the fix, and it was a  
marked improvement....I tried to force the throttle open quicker than  
normal and it hesitated a bit but took the bait. It no longer just  
quits. I was pushing it a bit quicker than normal, which was not a  
fair test, but it was taking it.
Now for the cure....it seemed to be between two things....low float  
level, maybe the wrong float needle. I had changed the float needle  
and seat back in Dec., and had told Bing to send me the correct  
needle for the 2.5 mm seat, and they sent me the light-springed  
version. They are available in light, medium and heavy springs. The  
light one worked right up until last week when I changed to the 2.78  
mm needle jet, and that's where all this nonsense began. When I  
changed back to the 2.76 mm needle jet, it still quit during mid- 
range, so something had to be wrong other than the needle jets. Then  
I started to change things. I changed float level and that didn't  
help. What finally worked was going back to the medium spring on the  
float needle, and setting the float level absolutely parallel to the  
carb base...I had it much too low, but in my defense, I was setting  
it by opening the fuel flow, and raising the float to shut off the  
flow and noting the position of the float...this was with the carb on  
the plane. Today, with the carb off the plane and inverted, I set the  
float to be parallel to the base with the medium-spring needle, and  
that's what worked. The real proof will come tomorrow, if the weather  
is good enough for a flight.

Thanks for all the input, guys and gals. Like it says in the manual,  
try one thing at a time or you won't know what cured the problem. If  
I could accept that philosophy, I might make a better mechanic, after  
being one for all these years.  : )

Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual


________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 02:15:20 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wanted Starting motor
From: "dave" 



> john beirne
> 
> 
> 
> Joined: 02 Oct 2006
> Posts: 16
> Location: Ireland
>  Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Wanted Starting motor
 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> Hi 
> I have just purchased a starter from this company. it is identical to the one
removed. 
> 
> http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/ws1?&caSKU=ws1&caTitle=100%25%20NEW%20Seadoo%20Starter%20580%20650%20GTS%20GTX%20SP%20SPX%20XP%20WS1 
>  


John, Have you tried this starter yet ?   looks like it rotates  CCW , Rotax requires
Clockwise. Good price if it works. 

What is wrong with starter ?  parts are usually available

--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173967#173967


________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 02:28:26 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New windshield material
From: "dave" 



>  It is very flexible, not as stiff as acrylic. Would I recommend it? So far so
good but school isn't out yet on the servicabilty of the material. Very forgiving
to work with. You can't fracture it like acrylic of Lexan. 
> 
> 
> 


You can successfully use .090 to .125 in one piece to do your Kitfox. The Pre IV
models have a steeper windshield and I would stick to  .060 to .080 "  lexan.
It won't crack if you treat it right. Cutting with tin snips works but you fracture
the edges and MUST clean them up or cracks can propagate from the edges
and especially at the top where the windshield bends around in a complex bend.
you can use a hand plane to true up the straight edges and take of the sharps
edges. On the inside and outside corners just polish up the edges with 220
working up to  400 or better . No nicks  =  longer life with no cracks.   You
can use a heat gun on corners are top  to relieve stress as well.

--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173970#173970


________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 03:15:33 PM PST US
From: 84KF 
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis

I believe your example is more descriptive of "shock cooling", a common
problem faced when behind an air cooled, hi-performance 4 stroke,
although all engines  are susceptible if the conditions are right.  It's the
result of the rapid change in cylinder temps when power is quickly  reduced
from a sustained cruise RPM, to a much lower RPM, (such as idle) in order to
achieve a rapid decent, usually in the approach to landing phase. No
buck...No Buck Rogers.
The proper procedure is to make carry throttle in decent, minor throttle
changes, and planning ahead by starting descents earlier.

My 912 4 stroke coolant (head) temps, although low in cold air, remain
fairly consistent through the flight, including descents, but proper
throttle management is still adhered to. And the engine is properly warmed
up before takeoff.

It would  seem that "cold seizure", somewhat similar, is more a concern to
the 2-stroke operators, who would have more first hand information,
opinions, and avoidance techniques.

http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/coldseizure.htm

http://www.ultralightnews.com/engineinfo/coldseizure.htm

Steve
A&P, I.A.
84KF

________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 03:40:04 PM PST US
From: patrick reilly 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: skis


Steve, Thank you for the references to cold siezure engine articles. They w
ere excellent. My 582 WILL have a thermostat installed. I will add one. It 
will help with my heater also.
Do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL 


@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: skis
I believe your example is more descriptive of "shock cooling", a common pro
blem faced when behind an air cooled, hi-performance 4 stroke, although all
 engines  are susceptible if the conditions are right.  It's the result of 
the rapid change in cylinder temps when power is quickly  reduced from a su
stained cruise RPM, to a much lower RPM, (such as idle) in order to achieve
 a rapid decent, usually in the approach to landing phase. No buck...No Buc
k Rogers.
The proper procedure is to make carry throttle in decent, minor throttle ch
anges, and planning ahead by starting descents earlier.

My 912 4 stroke coolant (head) temps, although low in cold air, remain fair
ly consistent through the flight, including descents, but proper throttle m
anagement is still adhered to. And the engine is properly warmed up before 
takeoff.

It would  seem that "cold seizure", somewhat similar, is more a concern to 
the 2-stroke operators, who would have more first hand information, opinion
s, and avoidance techniques.

http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/coldseizure.htm

http://www.ultralightnews.com/engineinfo/coldseizure.htm

Steve
A&P, I.A.
84KF


________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 08:20:46 PM PST US
From: "Andy Fultz" 
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New windshield material


Dave,

  Are you refering to the PETG material in your reply?

Andy F.



>  It is very flexible, not as stiff as acrylic. Would I recommend it? So
far so good but school isn't out yet on the servicabilty of the material.
Very forgiving to work with. You can't fracture it like acrylic of Lexan.
>
>


You can successfully use .090 to .125 in one piece to do your Kitfox. The
Pre IV models have a steeper windshield and I would stick to  .060 to .080 "
lexan. It won't crack if you treat it right. Cutting with tin snips works
but you fracture the edges and MUST clean them up or cracks can propagate
from the edges and especially at the top where the windshield bends around
in a complex bend.  you can use a hand plane to true up the straight edges
and take of the sharps edges. On the inside and outside corners just polish
up the edges with 220  working up to  400 or better . No nicks  =  longer
life with no cracks.   You can use a heat gun on corners are top  to relieve
stress as well.

--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=173970#173970


 

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