---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/06/08: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:13 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (dave) 2. 02:39 AM - Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension (dave) 3. 02:41 AM - Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension (dave) 4. 04:07 AM - Re: 6" gear extension (dave) 5. 04:08 AM - Re: Re: Sun-N-Fun 2008: What are your plans? (Lynn Matteson) 6. 05:34 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Pete Christensen) 7. 05:34 AM - Re: Re: TCP (Noel Loveys) 8. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Pete Christensen) 9. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: TCP (Noel Loveys) 10. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Pete Christensen) 11. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension (steve shinabery) 12. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: Bungee Gear Leg (Noel Loveys) 13. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Noel Loveys) 14. 07:00 AM - Re: Re: 6" gear extension (Noel Loveys) 15. 07:13 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Rexinator) 16. 07:24 AM - Re: Making Bungees (Tom Jones) 17. 07:44 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Tom Jones) 18. 07:49 AM - Re: Making Bungees (fox5flyer) 19. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Ted Palamarek) 20. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Lynn Matteson) 21. 10:47 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (dave) 22. 10:53 AM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (dave) 23. 12:48 PM - Draining Wing Tanks (Pete Christensen) 24. 01:44 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (RAY Gignac) 25. 02:57 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (Rexinator) 26. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Clint Bazzill) 27. 05:16 PM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (John W. Hart) 28. 06:27 PM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (dave) 29. 06:28 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (samscycles@juno.com) 30. 06:52 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (Keith C.) 31. 06:55 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (Keith C.) 32. 07:16 PM - Re: Draining Wing Tanks (dave) 33. 07:50 PM - Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Noel Loveys) 34. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose (Noel Loveys) 35. 08:30 PM - Re: Re: Making Bungees (Noel Loveys) 36. 09:01 PM - Re: Wanted Starting motor (AKFLYERBOB) 37. 09:51 PM - Re: GSC Prop blades (Rexinator) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:17 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose From: "dave" Pete, I would consider your GSC blades to be "expired" . Also I would not use them if the alum blocks at touching. This means that it has likely been over tightened in the past. GSc makes a decent prop but once the root ends are compromised you are facing a blade departure now without a moments notice. I will say that the IVO does seem to perform better on a 912 than a GSC does. ON a 582 I would say the differences are minimal. I sell props and if GSC has blades in stock you can get shipped overnight. If not it might be a week or so. IVO usually in stock. WARP is taking 8 to 12 weeks now. GSC replacment blades are about 200$ each. I would change them all. If you fly and loose a blade it will be costly and you could do alot of damage . Your plane should be grounded until you can replace or borrow a prop. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175044#175044 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension From: "dave" Deke, First off my Kitfox that is off in 100 feet or less will cruise at 92 mph with the 21 " King fox tires. That is TAS not IAS. I have a WARP ground adjustable on it now and those are the numbers. Plain and simple it works and works well. Engine has 420 hours on it and never been apart yet. According to popular belief that 2 stroke should have flown apart hundreds of hours ago. ? Heck man on Amphib floats I cruise at 85 MPH with a stinking 582 -- PS if you Kitfox will get off the ground in 100 feet ?> I would like to see that on Video, --See the difference between me and others is that is put my camera where my mouth is.Some like it -- others do not . But At least I can verify what I say with a video. > Oops, I just reread my message and saw that I might have ruffled some > feathers, especially "Rotax Dealer". If you're pitched to get off the > ground in 100 feet, then you're pitched to cruise at 65 mph! > Deke > > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175045#175045 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:10 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension From: "dave" Larry, Snaps just put together a 740 cc for his Avid, should be interesting this summer . Paul has one of his short take off on voutube. Totally amazing. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175046#175046 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:21 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 6" gear extension From: "dave" > I have yet to pull the flaps while on step... Usually around that time I'm > too busy getting into the air without introducing another variable. Noel, The KF 1,2 and 3 had less of flapperon effect being limited to around 15 degrees or so. The Model IV like mine will go past 30 degrees down although some limit theirs to 20 degrees. I will use 30 Degree + ( full) for short, soft and glassy water takeoffs. I will start with usually zero to 20 degree ees and pull full flaps to break the suction. This is quite simular to a C 180 and used by many to get the weight from gear to wings as quickly as possible. On Landing over 20 degrees has little or no effect in shortening landing or reducing stall speed. Best thing for anyone is to know their own limitations and their airplanes total operating envelope. And to improve both are real "gotta- haves" -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175049#175049 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:22 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Sun-N-Fun 2008: What are your plans? At this point I'm waiting until I see that Florida is no longer "green and red" (rain and severe thunderstorms)on the Weather Channel. Another cell sitting out in the Gulf, too. Not too much fun to fly to lower Georgia and sit and wait. And if I wait too long, Michigan will turn "green". I see that Moblie, AL is pretty wet right now, eh? Look at the brochure for the event...no mention of EAA other than the discounts for EAA members and Florida Air Museum Memberships, which they push at every opportunity. Not even a link to the EAA in their list of website links. From what I see and hear, the EAA has backed out of the association, or SnF has dropped them. Lynn On Apr 5, 2008, at 9:47 PM, FlyboyTR wrote: > > I may be wrong about the SNF/EAA affiliation. I know that... way > back when... SNF was EAA sponsored. Until two years ago, we had > been away from airplanes for 8-9 years. A lot of things have changed. > > Lynn, what day are you planning on leaving, weather permitting? > > Travis :D > > -------- > Travis Rayner > Mobile, AL > Skystar Vixen, N-789DF > Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop > ADI-II Autopilot > AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175021#175021 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:36 AM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose I believe you are right about the dry. It sat in a wide truck box for a couple years baking in Arizona heat. There are NO signs of over tightening or crushing. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: ron schick To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:30 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose Pete The by the book crowd will insist the prop is junk and it may be. I would think if it were overtightened to that degree there would be material pressed into the parting line. I just wonder if maybe it's dryer than a popcorn fart in Texas and Arizona. I'll bet after about two days on the Oregon coast you would have your .020 gap at the parting line. Raining like hell here so I'm probably just all wet. :) Ron NB Ore KF IV, Avid A, C152 > From: apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose > Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:28:02 -0600 > > > I just bought a Used Kitfox III in Arizona and yesterday flew it to within > 100 miles of El Paso before I ran out of daylight. This morning while doing > a walk around before the final leg home I found that the blades were loose. > The good Lord was looking after me as I flew it yesterday for 6 hours > without a problem. One blade was so loose I turned it by hand. It had an > annual the day I bought the plane. I suspect it was loose when I left AZ > but I never checked as it was not on my checklist. It had been stored in an > enclosed storage container for probably a couple years. > > Is there a fix or is the prop trash? > > Pete > Kitfox III N73BH > > &===================== > ================ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:41 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Thanks Jim I saved the URL for the next time someone asks for the ingredients. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 11:35 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Hi Noel, I posted another message right after that one that had the right link on it. I'll try it again, otherwise google Marvel mystery oil FAA and look at the topic NYCO2LA it was the ninth item down on the first page when I checked. Here is the link again, hope it works http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1 Jim Chuk Avids Mhn _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP I couldn't get the link to work but the percentages look familiar. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #) http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1 > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP > From: rlee468@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay? > The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent. > > -------- > Ron Lee > Tucson, Arizona > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719 > &g========= > > > _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:52 AM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Thanks Chuck, I will consider an IVO. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Others may have other opinions, but it you need a different prop, go with an IVO, it is the easiest to adjust of them all and performs quite well. The nice thing about an adjustable prop, compared to a fixed pitch prop is that if the fixed prop isn't right, you just spent a bunch of money for nothing, or at least not really what you want. With the adjustable, you set it where you want it. For instance, if you want to fly a cross country, maybe you add a bit of pitch for better cruise speed, but later, you are trying to get out of some short strips, you can take out some pitch and have more of a climb prop. I now have a Jabiru in my Avid, and really do miss being able to set the prop up the way I want it like I could with the 582 before. Just my 2 cents worth, Jim Chuk > From: apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose > Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 20:09:05 -0600 > > > Thanks Tom, > > This plane has been through about 6 owners. Bound to be one of them that > over tightened the hub. I really don't like the complexity of the ground > adjustable. I would prefer fixed pitch. The instructions that came with > the prop leave allot to be desired and the GSC web site is even less > helpful. > > Pete > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Jones" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:44 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose > > > > > > > > peteohms wrote: > >> Tom, > >> Well there was NO gap between hub halves and the bolts were plenty tight. > >> I > >> took the prop apart and it looks brand new inside and out. I just made > >> some > >> aluminum shims for the inside of both halves. They appear to work. I do > >> have the instructions. It seems like it would be easier to fly it the 60 > >> or > >> so miles than to try to find a trailer that will fit. > >> > >> Pete > >> Kitfox III 912 N73BH > >> --- > > > > > > Pete, your prop situation is different than I have heard of. That being > > the bolts are tight, hub halves touching, and the blades still loose. The > > blade roots can be crushed and thus damaged if it has been over-torqued in > > the past. > > > > People have reported a blade slipping in flight due to over torqueing, > > which crushes the blade root and the hub halves touch. Being able to turn > > a blade by hand with the bolts tight indicates to me that either the blade > > root diameter is too small or the hub sockets too large. GSC keeps a > > record of blade serial numbers (I think) so may be able to shed some light > > on the issue for you. Probably won't be able to get ahold of anyone there > > until Monday though. > > > > -------- > > Tom Jones > > Classic IV > > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > > Ellensburg, WA > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175020#175020 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:48 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP A few of things of interest to note from the NTSB crash report. 1. The MMO seems to be mixed at close to double the recommended strength. 2. It didn't work... The whole top end was packed with soot. And the CR were all below spec. 3. It was probably the poor condition of the engine that caused the loss of power. 4. An investigation into the practices of the FBO should be conducted. I'd love to know who passed the inspection on an engine with a 5/80 CR. That didn't happen overnight. The pilot was darn unlucky the plane even left the ground. Sounds like the only thing working properly was the fuel selector valve. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Those long links are hard to get right. If it doesn't work, google Marvel mystery oil FAA and it will be on the first page, 9th item down titled NYCO2LA I'll try the link again, left out a 2 last time http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1 _____ From: thesupe@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #) http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610 &nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1 > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP > From: rlee468@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay? > The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent. > > -------- > Ron Lee > Tucson, Arizona > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719 > &g========= > > > _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:51 AM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Robert Will the IVO bolt on the same prop hub as the gsc? Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Harris To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:57 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose I had a a three blad GSC prop on my Quad City challenger and it slipped in the hub too. After readjusting it I could get it to stop slipping but what an awful lot of work. The IVO prop is very easy to aduust in comparison. Robert San Diego Former II/582 V/0200 N200KF ----- Original Message ---- From: Pete Christensen To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 5, 2008 7:09:05 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Thanks Tom, This plane has been through about 6 owners. Bound to be one of them that over tightened the hub. I really don't like the complexity of the ground adjustable. I would prefer fixed pitch. The instructions that came with the prop leave allot to be desired and the GSC web site is even less helpful. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" To: Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 7:44 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose > > > peteohms wrote: >> Tom, >> Well there was NO gap between hub halves and the bolts were plenty tight. >> I >> took the prop apart and it looks brand new inside and out. I just made >> some >> aluminum shims for the inside of both halves. They appear to work. I do >> have the instructions. It seems like it would be easier to fly it the 60 >> or >> so miles than to try to find a trailer that will fit. >> >> Pete >> Kitfox III 912 N73BH >> --- > > > Pete, your prop situation is different than I have heard of. That being > the bolts are tight, hub halves touching, and the blades still loose. The > blade roots can be crushed and thus damaged if it has been over-torqued in > the past. > > People have reported a blade slipping in flight due to over torqueing, > which crushes the blade root and the hub halves touch. Being able to turn > a blade by hand with the bolts tight indicates to me that either the blade > root diameter is too small or the hub sockets too large. GSC keeps a > record of blade serial numbers (I think) so may be able to shed some light > on the issue for you. Probably won't be able to get ahold of anyone there > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:51 AM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Short field take off : was 6" extension dave wrote: > > Deke, > > First off my Kitfox that is off in 100 feet or less will cruise at 92 mph with the 21 " King fox tires. That is TAS not IAS. I have a WARP ground adjustable on it now and those are the numbers. Plain and simple it works and works well. Engine has 420 hours on it and never been apart yet. According to popular belief that 2 stroke should have flown apart hundreds of hours ago. ? Heck man on Amphib floats I cruise at 85 MPH with a stinking 582 -- > > PS if you Kitfox will get off the ground in 100 feet ?> I would like to see that on Video, --See the difference between me and others is that is put my camera where my mouth is.Some like it -- others do not . But At least I can verify what I say with a video. > > > >> Oops, I just reread my message and saw that I might have ruffled some >> feathers, especially "Rotax Dealer". If you're pitched to get off the >> ground in 100 feet, then you're pitched to cruise at 65 mph! >> Deke >> >> --- >> > > > -------- > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada > Flying Videos and Kitfox Info > http://www.cfisher.com/ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175045#175045 > > > GOOD going DAVE,,may be they should see your Videos as I have...and they would belive too.what the little 582 can do..DAVE keep up the good work...STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2 with a nother little 582 rotax ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:15 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Bungee Gear Leg I think I'd replace the whole gear leg. The cluster joints at the top inside and the axel have been compromised and I wouldn't trust them. I expect it would be easier to weld up another leg from scratch. Did you hit anything in flight??? It looks like a bird strike without the usual blood. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Bungee Gear Leg Cory, Thanks for posting the pictures of the collapsed gear leg. I see that the tube without a fairing attached is the one that failed. I was just wondering if epoxying a wood fairing on that front tube also would strengthen it. It shouldn't be too visible as long as the gear is covered. If you haven't found them yet here is a direct link to a service letter on thew gear legs. http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_letters/sl48.htm -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174777#174777 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:06 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Dave Didn't you have picture a blade departure on a float plane.. Maybe post it so the guys can see what they are up against with a departure. Also show them what may be required not to have an engine departure too. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:40 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Pete, I would consider your GSC blades to be "expired" . Also I would not use them if the alum blocks at touching. This means that it has likely been over tightened in the past. GSc makes a decent prop but once the root ends are compromised you are facing a blade departure now without a moments notice. I will say that the IVO does seem to perform better on a 912 than a GSC does. ON a 582 I would say the differences are minimal. I sell props and if GSC has blades in stock you can get shipped overnight. If not it might be a week or so. IVO usually in stock. WARP is taking 8 to 12 weeks now. GSC replacment blades are about 200$ each. I would change them all. If you fly and loose a blade it will be costly and you could do alot of damage . Your plane should be grounded until you can replace or borrow a prop. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175044#175044 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:51 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 6" gear extension I haven't had any problem getting un-stuck since I swapped out the tach. Before that getting off the water was ... shall I say interesting. I would pop her off one float at a time and when it finally broke the second float free it would be in a pretty nose high attitude and the acceleration was quite noticible. I figured I was actually using around 45 HP. Landing is a bit different. If I let the plane run out with a slightly nose high attitude the run out is quite short. If however I pull full back on the stick in the run out the plane starts reverse porpoiseing ( nose up to nose level ) and I think actually takes longer to drop off step. I doubt the new 912 will get me of the water any faster but I'm expecting to improve my climb ability once airborne. As it is with the 582 there is almost no step time between throttle and flight. It's some time now since I had to roll it into the air. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 8:34 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 6" gear extension > I have yet to pull the flaps while on step... Usually around that time I'm > too busy getting into the air without introducing another variable. Noel, The KF 1,2 and 3 had less of flapperon effect being limited to around 15 degrees or so. The Model IV like mine will go past 30 degrees down although some limit theirs to 20 degrees. I will use 30 Degree + ( full) for short, soft and glassy water takeoffs. I will start with usually zero to 20 degree ees and pull full flaps to break the suction. This is quite simular to a C 180 and used by many to get the weight from gear to wings as quickly as possible. On Landing over 20 degrees has little or no effect in shortening landing or reducing stall speed. Best thing for anyone is to know their own limitations and their airplanes total operating envelope. And to improve both are real "gotta- haves" -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175049#175049 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose From: Rexinator I hope this only applies for props installed as I've got a set of new GSC props in the box that are well over 5 years old. =-O -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs Pete Christensen wrote: > > > After doing a little research online, it turns out that the GSC props > are only good for 5 years or 500 hours. This prop is 14 years old and > has probably 400 hours on it. > > Pete > Kitfox III N73BH > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:46 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees From: "Tom Jones" I couldn't find any instructions for making the bungee loops so started experimenting. I tried using safety wire but after about half a day gave that up. It was difficult to pull the wire snug and all my attempts looked like a mess. I ended up using rib lacing cord. the wrap is about an inch long and each individual wrap is secured with a square knot. So, if one knot lets go or lacing cord gets cut somehow the whole wrap won't come off. Picture attached any ideas to improve it or other constructive criticism. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175068#175068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_bungee_153.jpg ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose From: "Tom Jones" Rex Hefferan wrote: > I hope this only applies for props installed as I've got a set of new > GSC props in the box that are well over 5 years old. =-O > > Rex Hefferan > SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs > > Pete Christensen wrote: > > > > > After doing a little research online, it turns out that the GSC props > > are only good for 5 years or 500 hours. This prop is 14 years old and > > has probably 400 hours on it. > > > > Pete > > Kitfox III N73BH > > > Rex, here's a direct link to the 5 or 500 service bulletin on GSC's web site. http://www.ultralightprops.com/bulletins/bulletins.htm It kind of implies the bulletin was implemented due to planes being bought and sold and the new owners having no way to be certain the prop bolts had never been over torqued. But, it does kind of leave you hanging. If you want to throw the prop away, I'll take it off your hands. Just kidding, probably should give them a call and see if you get a straight answer. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175072#175072 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:33 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees Good job Tom. That'll work fine. Thanks for sharing with the group. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees > > I couldn't find any instructions for making the bungee loops so started > experimenting. I tried using safety wire but after about half a day gave > that up. It was difficult to pull the wire snug and all my attempts > looked like a mess. > > I ended up using rib lacing cord. the wrap is about an inch long and each > individual wrap is secured with a square knot. So, if one knot lets go or > lacing cord gets cut somehow the whole wrap won't come off. > > Picture attached any ideas to improve it or other constructive criticism. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175068#175068 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_bungee_153.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:59 AM PST US From: "Ted Palamarek" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Noel The blade that departed was on a float plane and was a composite blade not a GSC and it happened to the fellow out of Montreal if I remember correctly. It had something to do with the hub. His picture showed the departed blade impaled into the front of the float. I think the fellows name is Gary and his arcft was C-GOOT. I think the above info is correct --- perhaps Gary could elaborate on this as I am sure he is aware of the incident if it wasn't him. DO NOT ARCHIVE Ted Palamarek Edmonton -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: April 6, 2008 7:21 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Dave Didn't you have picture a blade departure on a float plane.. Maybe post it so the guys can see what they are up against with a departure. Also show them what may be required not to have an engine departure too. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:40 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Pete, I would consider your GSC blades to be "expired" . Also I would not use them if the alum blocks at touching. This means that it has likely been over tightened in the past. GSc makes a decent prop but once the root ends are compromised you are facing a blade departure now without a moments notice. I will say that the IVO does seem to perform better on a 912 than a GSC does. ON a 582 I would say the differences are minimal. I sell props and if GSC has blades in stock you can get shipped overnight. If not it might be a week or so. IVO usually in stock. WARP is taking 8 to 12 weeks now. GSC replacment blades are about 200$ each. I would change them all. If you fly and loose a blade it will be costly and you could do alot of damage . Your plane should be grounded until you can replace or borrow a prop. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175044#175044 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:47 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose This ain't Dave, but the guy who had that happen was Gary Walsh, if I recall correctly. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual do not archive On Apr 6, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Dave > > Didn't you have picture a blade departure on a float plane.. Maybe > post it > so the guys can see what they are up against with a departure. > Also show > them what may be required not to have an engine departure too. > > Noel > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose From: "dave" > I believe you are right about the dry. It sat in a wide truck box for a couple years baking in Arizona heat. There are NO signs of over tightening or crushing. > > Pete Pete, You are wrong. You said the aluminum blocks are touching ? IF you answered yes then it has been overtightened. If anything the 2 year stint in the hot Bin did nothing to help it. Prop is Old - get rid of it. Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175091#175091 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:41 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose From: "dave" The prop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour. Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall correctly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person to deal with. I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I had a blade departure my self once and you what results is a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I deadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to shop. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW engine and PROP. There are very credible and we continue to sell their props. I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 tractors If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. > Noel > > The blade that departed was on a float plane and was a composite blade not a > GSC and it happened to the fellow out of Montreal if I remember correctly. > It had something to do with the hub. His picture showed the departed blade > impaled into the front of the float. I think the fellows name is Gary and > his arcft was C-GOOT. > > I think the above info is correct --- perhaps Gary could elaborate on this > as I am sure he is aware of the incident if it wasn't him. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Ted Palamarek -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175092#175092 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:51 PM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks I need to tow my Kitfox III forward facing on a Uhaul Car trailer for about 60 miles. How much fuel can I leave in the tanks? It has about 15+ gallons now. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP I couldn't get the link to work but the percentages look familiar. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0L A181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #) http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOL A181&akey=1 > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP > From: rlee468@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay? > The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent. > > -------- > Ron Lee > Tucson, Arizona > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719 > &g========= > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:04 PM PST US From: RAY Gignac Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks Pete a few gal's in each tank is ok, what you want to watch for is stress o n the wings when folded and towing! The other thing is you don't want fuel leaking from your tanks when folded. Make sure you support the front spar with an attachment from the spar to the float attachment point. Ray From: apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing TanksDate: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:45:52 -0600 I need to tow my Kitfox III forward facing on a Uhaul Car trailer for about 60 miles. How much fuel can I leave in the tanks? It has about 15+ gallo ns now. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP I couldn=92t get the link to work but the percentages look familiar. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy ChukSent: Friday, April 04, 200 8 1:52 AMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the N STB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, s o who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 0 20916X01610&nstbno=NYC0LA181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, may be this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #)http://www.nstb.g ov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOLA181&akey=1> Subj ect: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP> From: rlee468@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message p osted by: "ronlee" > > I have the same question. How d o you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay?> The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon b arrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also use s barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard sol vent.> > --------> Ron Lee> Tucson, Arizona> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719> &g ==========> > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Ge t started! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.ma tronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN5 1N1653A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks From: Rexinator Pete, I'm sure you are thinking about the stresses that bumps in the road and fuel weight on folded wings can have. It might be enlightening to take note of the effort it takes to lift the tail before and after folding the wings. The extra weight on the tail wheel spring could effect extra stresses too. There's been failures of the tail spring mentioned on this list just from normal use. Car trailers are going to have stiff suspensions with a light load such as a small airplane. Since you will have your Kitfox facing forward and the tail probably down the wings can catch a lot of lift from whatever forward speed plus headwind you may decide to travel. Just take it slow and easy. -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs RAY Gignac wrote: > Pete a few gal's in each tank is ok, what you want to watch for is > stress on the wings when folded and towing! The other thing is you > don't want fuel leaking from your tanks when folded. Make sure you > support the front spar with an attachment from the spar to the float > attachment point. > > Ray > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 13:45:52 -0600 > > I need to tow my Kitfox III forward facing on a Uhaul Car trailer > for about 60 miles. How much fuel can I leave in the tanks? It > has about 15+ gallons now. > > Pete > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:49 PM PST US From: Clint Bazzill Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose If you claim that an IVO prop had a failure, please supply list with that i nformation. I think you are wrong about that and give people bad impressio ns. Clint> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose> From: dave@cfi sher.com> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:51:09 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.c rop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour. Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall corr ectly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person t o deal with. > > I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I h ad a blade departure my self once and you what results is a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I d eadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to sho p. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW e ngine and PROP. There are very credible and we continue to sell their props . > > I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 trac tors If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. > > > > > Noel > > > > The blade that departed was on a float plane and was a composite blade not a > > GSC and it happene d to the fellow out of Montreal if I remember correctly. > > It had somethi ng to do with the hub. His picture showed the departed blade > > impaled in to the front of the float. I think the fellows name is Gary and > > his arc ft was C-GOOT. > > > > I think the above info is correct --- perhaps Gary c ould elaborate on this > > as I am sure he is aware of the incident if it w asn't him. > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > > Ted Palamarek > > > --------> Rot ax Dealer, Ontario Canada> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info> http://www.cfishe r.com/> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com ================> > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:13 PM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Google comes up with a whole bunch of IVO prop failures. John Hart Kitfox IV Wilburton, OK From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose If you claim that an IVO prop had a failure, please supply list with that information. I think you are wrong about that and give people bad impressions. Clint > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose > From: dave@cfisher.com > Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 10:51:09 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > The prop in question was a NSI hub that failed. Gary is a good friend and close neighbour. Lance Wheeler from NSI did nothing to help Gary if I recall correctly. Lance Wheeler had a reputation of not being the most honest person to deal with. > > I had another prop near me depart a blade and yes it was a GSC wood prop. I have also see other brands including IVO shed blades. I had a blade departure my self once and you what results is a sonic like boom as your windshield blows out and the engine gets torn from the mounts. I deadsticked with no damage into a field. Put on trailer and took back to shop. This company unlike NSI replaced all damaged equipment including a NEW engine and PROP. There are very credible and we continue to sell their props. > > I have at least 6 different props in stock now for demos for 582 tractors If anyone wants to fly in and try one or spend a day trying different props that can be arranged. > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:00 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose From: "dave" Clint , like others said lots on google as well. Here is one of my own pics Sounds like you never herad of a IVO failure >? Like i said all props die from time to time -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175151#175151 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/broken_ivo_917.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:32 PM PST US From: "samscycles@juno.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks I believe it would be safer to drain most of the fuel. It would be safe r and you would have more piece of mind, _____________________________________________________________ Take care of your pets with quality veterinary supplies. Click here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mh0AxzSy3vjBlX516XVg0 8QPoYw2bPbqpCfxwVE4R2rjGBF/ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:25 PM PST US From: "Keith C." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks Pete, I just towed mine 1700mi same situation. It was suggested I drain to 5gal. or less in ea. wing. We made it without major mishap. Keith C. Mod IV 912 Mather (MHR) CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Christensen To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:45 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks I need to tow my Kitfox III forward facing on a Uhaul Car trailer for about 60 miles. How much fuel can I leave in the tanks? It has about 15+ gallons now. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP I couldn't get the link to work but the percentages look familiar. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0L A181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #) http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOL A181&akey=1 > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP > From: rlee468@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay? > The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent. > > -------- > Ron Lee > Tucson, Arizona > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719 > &g========= > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:56 PM PST US From: "Keith C." Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks Pete, Long day, I misread, mine was tail forward on a trailer made for it. Still the weight on the tail from the wings is much more. Less is better. Keith C. Mod IV 912 Mather (MHR) CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Christensen To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:45 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Draining Wing Tanks I need to tow my Kitfox III forward facing on a Uhaul Car trailer for about 60 miles. How much fuel can I leave in the tanks? It has about 15+ gallons now. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP I couldn't get the link to work but the percentages look familiar. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 AM To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP Here is something I read a few years ago, it is an accident report on the NSTB site that mentions MMO and in the 5th paragraph up from the bottom, it says that MMO is mineral oil, stoddard solvent, and lard (75%, 24%, 1%) I can't say for sure this is true, it is an official gov. document though, so who knows. Hope this long link comes out okey. I found it again on the web by searching Marvel mystery oil FAA and found it on the second page I think. Jim Chuk Avids Mn http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYC0L A181&akey=1 if that isn't the right link, maybe this is (not sure if the 0 in NYCOLA is a letter or #) http://www.nstb.gov/nstb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&nstbno=NYCOL A181&akey=1 > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: TCP > From: rlee468@comcast.net > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 19:29:36 -0700 > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > I have the same question. How do you know MMO is Stoddard solvent? Where did you find that information or is just a guess or hearsay? > The mining companies use it by the 55 gallon barrels for many applications including all air tools. The military also uses barrels of the stuff. In view of this I wouldn't think it is Stoddard solvent. > > -------- > Ron Lee > Tucson, Arizona > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174719#174719 > &g========= > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:56 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Draining Wing Tanks From: "dave" Pete, I would drain fuel or a good part of it (all but a few gallons in each at most ) secondly and VERY important . use wing root braces to support the forward spar tube as it will likely be very hard on the epoxy joints on rear spar. If you don't then damage could and likely will occur -- fuel or no fuel. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175166#175166 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:58 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose New... Over five years old??? GSC has a TBO on the blades something like five years or 500 Hr....Whichever first. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rexinator Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose I hope this only applies for props installed as I've got a set of new GSC props in the box that are well over 5 years old. =-O -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs Pete Christensen wrote: > > > After doing a little research online, it turns out that the GSC props > are only good for 5 years or 500 hours. This prop is 14 years old and > has probably 400 hours on it. > > Pete > Kitfox III N73BH > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:51 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose The very first Ivo I saw had issues... Since that time I have used an Ivo myself with excellent results. The issue with the first prop I think was caused by not using an accurately calibrated torque wrench. All composites, whether in a prop or the cowl of a jetliner require special handling and react a lot differently than wood or metal. So much for the obvious! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CGS Prop blades Loose Clint , like others said lots on google as well. Here is one of my own pics Sounds like you never herad of a IVO failure >? Like i said all props die from time to time -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175151#175151 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/broken_ivo_917.jpg ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:55 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees The bungees that came with my plane had nico press fittings on the bungees. Needless to say getting the bulky nico press fittings through the acess holes in the bottom of the plane is not fun. When I was a kid my grandfather showed me how to splice rope under and over and by whipping the ends. Instead of tying a square knot after each winding he would have used double threads and would have used a half hitch every third or fourth winding. The result would be a much tighter whipping. When the job was finished he may have used a lacquer finish on the whipping like they do on good fly rods. The area of the whipping shouldn't be the area to stretch. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 12:14 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees Good job Tom. That'll work fine. Thanks for sharing with the group. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Making Bungees > > I couldn't find any instructions for making the bungee loops so started > experimenting. I tried using safety wire but after about half a day gave > that up. It was difficult to pull the wire snug and all my attempts > looked like a mess. > > I ended up using rib lacing cord. the wrap is about an inch long and each > individual wrap is secured with a square knot. So, if one knot lets go or > lacing cord gets cut somehow the whole wrap won't come off. > > Picture attached any ideas to improve it or other constructive criticism. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175068#175068 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_bungee_153.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wanted Starting motor From: "AKFLYERBOB" I purchased on of these starters to check it out and Dave is correct, the rotation is opposite. The bendix is also different. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=175190#175190 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: GSC Prop blades From: Rexinator Yes, I read that and have sent an email to GSC asking about the replacement blades which came with the airplane I bought to repair. I suspect the TBO is meant to apply to blades installed in a hub. I will let the list know what they say. -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs Noel Loveys wrote: > >New... Over five years old??? GSC has a TBO on the blades something like >five years or 500 Hr....Whichever first. > >Noel > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rexinator >Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 11:40 AM >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CGS Prop blades Loose > > >I hope this only applies for props installed as I've got a set of new >GSC props in the box that are well over 5 years old. =-O > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.