Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Re: OFF TOPIC taildraggers poem (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention (Beemer)
3. 04:09 AM - KF2 Bungie connections (fox5flyer)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: KF2 Bungie connections (Tom Jones)
5. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: KF2 Bungie connections (fox5flyer)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention (Guy Buchanan)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: KF2 Bungie connections (fox5flyer)
8. 01:49 PM - Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention (Beemer)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: KF2 Bungie connections (tc9008@aol.com)
10. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: KF2 Bungie connections (tc9008@aol.com)
11. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention (kirk hull)
12. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention (steve shinabery)
13. 05:48 PM - Re: Re: KF2 Bungie connections (Sbennett3@aol.com)
14. 08:12 PM - Life Insurance (Dan Billingsley)
15. 08:24 PM - Picked up new Kitfox 4 today (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: OFF TOPIC taildraggers poem |
Yes, someone pointed it out earlier....thanks for the followup.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
do not archive
On Apr 15, 2008, at 9:45 PM, <gjglh@cebridge.net> wrote:
>
> Did you ever get your tail dragger poem?
>
> On Thu Mar 27 16:21 , Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> sent:
>
>>
>> Does anybody out there have the Taildraggers Poem handy? I have it in
>> print form, but can't get my #&^%$#@!**&~ OCR to work so I can
>> send it out to a new taildragger student. I'm sure he would love to
>> read this poem, so if anybody can post it, I'd appreciate it.
>> If not, I'll have to get my neighbor to scan my copy and post it.
>> Thanks....
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Grass Lake, Michigan
>> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
>> flying w/480+ hrs/down for annual
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention |
I am sort of hesitant to claim victory too loudly as of yet. I don't have that
much time on it, and while it is mounted successfully, and runs well and I'm flying,
it doesn't yet prove anything. I don't have enough time to be convincing.
I too, looked for a 582 replacement. I searched everything I could find: VW's,
HKS, etc. Same process we all go through I guess. I blew off the Geo at first,
mainly because of listening to a few folks who formed an opinion not based on
the facts. Oh well, the Geo became the engine that kept fitting my needs and
goals for the airplane. Besides, I promised my wife I wouldn't bust the bank if
she LET me get an airplane.
Remember, mine is a Model 2, so the basic airframe is smaller and lighter. I don't
think the Model 4 would do so well with the 3 cylinder, as it is bigger and
more capable. That airframe would perform best with more horsepower.
I bought a Model 3 kit because of the higher allowable gross weight. With the M2
at the stock 950lbs and the heavy Geo, I basically turned it into a single person
airplane. Well, I hate flying alone, so the extra 100lbs will be perfect
I think.
It isn't plug and play, for sure. I cursed many things during the process, but
in hindsight, most of that was normal teething issues of doing something different,
effectively for the first time. There's not many KF/Geo examples out there
to research. I broke new ground. I am also very hampered with poor local talent
in things like welding and machining. There just aren't any craftsman and
artists around anymore. I suppose it's fallout of living in a disposable society.
Well, it's been fun, and I'm enjoying the tinkering.
Bradley
--------
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Middle Georgia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177149#177149
Message 3
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| Subject: | KF2 Bungie connections |
I received a private email from a Kitfox 2 owner looking for some advice
in installing new bungies. He already has the factory new units, but
he's having trouble with the configuration of them and not sure how
they're connected. What he has is two attach points directly opposite
each other, then another underneath a few inches outboard facing down
that is perpendicular to the others.
Can someone explain the connections to me or maybe email me a copy of
the appropriate page so I can pass it on to him? Would appreciate it.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
Deke,
That sounds like it is the same bungee installation system as the Model 4. if
you would like that, email me. I can't seem to figure out how to find member
emails on here.
nahsikhs@elltel.net
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177180#177180
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
Thanks Tom. I replied to you offlist.
Deke
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections
>
> Deke,
> That sounds like it is the same bungee installation system as the Model 4.
> if you would like that, email me. I can't seem to figure out how to find
> member emails on here.
> nahsikhs@elltel.net
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177180#177180
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention |
At 04:02 AM 4/16/2008, you wrote:
>I bought a Model 3 kit because of the higher allowable gross weight.
>With the M2 at the stock 950lbs and the heavy Geo, I basically
>turned it into a single person airplane. Well, I hate flying alone,
>so the extra 100lbs will be perfect I think.
Bradley,
On your previous email you said it was 50-70 pounds heavier,
but the all up weight was the same. What do you mean by that? Are you
offsetting the fuel?
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
Thanks Tom. Got the pages just fine and I'll pass them on. Mark will be
very happy.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections
>
> Deke,
> That sounds like it is the same bungee installation system as the Model 4.
> if you would like that, email me. I can't seem to figure out how to find
> member emails on here.
> nahsikhs@elltel.net
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177180#177180
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention |
Yes, exactly. The G10 burns exactly half that of a 582. This makes sense, considering
equivalent hp, and 4 stroke vs. 2. So, instead of carrying 20 gallons
of premium Unleaded, you get the same endurance from only 10 gallons of regular
unleaded. Hence, a theoretical savings of about 70lbs (at least on my bird and
the way I've been flying it).
Now, imagine if you have dual 13 gallon wing tanks. You could fill them up, and
fly for over 12 HOURS before hitting a gas station. Don't know about you, but
I'd think provision for in-flight bladder relief would then be my main concern.
My new M3 will have two 6 gallon wing tanks, with lockers outboard. No sense in
lugging 6 jerry cans out to the hanger, when two will do.
Other small benefit - the 1.5 gallon AL header tank is now legal for VFR fuel reserves
all by itself. You can fly the wing tanks completely dry, and be legal.
I installed a level light in mine, so that when that light goes off, I'm done
(and still legal).
Bradley
--------
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Middle Georgia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177262#177262
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
I will be changing mine on a 4. Please send the instructions also
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:56 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections
?
Thanks Tom. Got the pages just fine and I'll pass them on. Mark will be very happy.?
?
Deke Morisse?
Mikado Michigan?
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT?
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."?
- Joseph Joubert?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>?
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:58 AM?
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections?
?
>?
> Deke,?
> That sounds like it is the same bungee installation system as the Model 4. >
if you would like that, email me. I can't seem to figure out how to find > member
emails on here.?
> nahsikhs@elltel.net?
>?
> --------?
> Tom Jones?
> Classic IV?
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp?
> Ellensburg, WA?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Read this topic online here:?
>?
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177180#177180?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ?
?
?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
I will be changing mine on a 4. Please send the instructions also
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: fox5flyer <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:56 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections
?
Thanks Tom. Got the pages just fine and I'll pass them on. Mark will be very happy.?
?
Deke Morisse?
Mikado Michigan?
S5/Subaru/CAP 355+ TT?
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."?
- Joseph Joubert?
?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>?
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:58 AM?
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF2 Bungie connections?
?
>?
> Deke,?
> That sounds like it is the same bungee installation system as the Model 4. >
if you would like that, email me. I can't seem to figure out how to find > member
emails on here.?
> nahsikhs@elltel.net?
>?
> --------?
> Tom Jones?
> Classic IV?
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp?
> Ellensburg, WA?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Read this topic online here:?
>?
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177180#177180?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ?
?
?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention |
All I have to sat is my Subaru runs great , has more horse power & torque
and cost about half as much as a rotax including the stratus conversion.
But to each his own
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention
I respectfully disagree, Bradley. I think there are some of us here who fly
behind 582's that are anxious to hear about proven alternatives. I love the
582's performance but for my part, I'm weary of Rotax prices and have been
searching for an affordable alternative with lower fuel consumption and
higher TBO. These are "experimental" aircraft afterall.
Please keep us posted on your progress, and don't let flaming contrary
opinions deter you. As the wise man once said, "opinions are like a------s,
everybody's got one but no one's is better than yours." ;-)
beemer <bmwebb@cox.net> wrote:
Folks,
I have a paper I wrote extolling the virtues of the Geo, but it is not
appropriate for posting to this forum. Besides, it's very one-sided and
opinionated, albeit absolutely truthful. It'd make someone upset.
Suffice it to say, the Geo is an excellent alternative to the 582. I don't
believe Model 4 flyers will do much better than the 912, but a Turbo G13
four-cylinder would certainly work if you want it to.
Some facts about the Geo install - initially it will nickel and dime you to
death. Mainly because I bought 50 things before I found one that worked
well. I'd love to put together a Kitfox install kit, but there just isn't
enough interest for that. After the initial installation, it will cost you
next to nothing. Case in point: I just bought a third engine core locally
for $100. A complete rebuild kit (new parts only) costs $300. Machining and
inspection will run another $100-$300. Add a good 5-angle valve job, a
performance cam, SS valves, and a crank scraper, and you're out another $400
(but get 70hp from it). Do a mild porting job at home, put it together
yourself, shell out $2K- $3K for the reduction drive (or adapt a Rotax
E-box!) and you're in business. 4gph on takeoff, 2gph in cruise. My M2
climbs out and cruises at 582 numbers. The 3 cylinder vibrates just as much
at cruise, but start and shut-down are much better. I hear the 4 cylinder
G13 is smooth as glass, but it'!
s too long for my M2 without cowl re-work. It's got 20 more hp, tho'.
In all fairness, now the bad: You won't get insurance. You wont get your
money back out of it if you sell. It will weigh 50-70lbs more than the 582
(albeit the all-up flying weight will be the same). Your battery will have
to go to the tail (meaning cover job and paint). From my experience, local
talent at machining these is nowhere to be found. Be prepared to ride your
machinist's A$$ all the way, as this ain't your dad's Chevy, and Chevy
clearances won't work.
If you're not comfortable flying 1000hrs on one (even though it'll do it
easily), then buy a second core and build it up as a spare for $800, and
pickle it. Change motors at every annual (I can drop mine, and re-install in
2 hours), and keep a waiting spare. Like I said, once the initial expense is
done, you're flying on the cheap from there on out.
I hope to have a web site explaining more, but I'm horrible at it, and time
is better spent flying, ya' know? Meanwhile I'll invite you to join the
Yahoo Geo list (lists, as there's two), and lurk around for more info. Feel
free to ask questions. Most guys are very helpful over there with
information.
Also, feel free to email me directly, I'll be as helpful as I can. Remember
the Kitfox forum isn't really the proper place to discuss alternative
engines (I'm ok with that).
Bradley
--------
Beemer
KF2
Read this topic online
_____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Geo power - Was Got your attention |
Beemer wrote:
>
> I am sort of hesitant to claim victory too loudly as of yet. I don't have that
much time on it, and while it is mounted successfully, and runs well and I'm
flying, it doesn't yet prove anything. I don't have enough time to be convincing.
>
> I too, looked for a 582 replacement. I searched everything I could find: VW's,
HKS, etc. Same process we all go through I guess. I blew off the Geo at first,
mainly because of listening to a few folks who formed an opinion not based
on the facts. Oh well, the Geo became the engine that kept fitting my needs and
goals for the airplane. Besides, I promised my wife I wouldn't bust the bank
if she LET me get an airplane.
>
> Remember, mine is a Model 2, so the basic airframe is smaller and lighter. I
don't think the Model 4 would do so well with the 3 cylinder, as it is bigger
and more capable. That airframe would perform best with more horsepower.
>
> I bought a Model 3 kit because of the higher allowable gross weight. With the
M2 at the stock 950lbs and the heavy Geo, I basically turned it into a single
person airplane. Well, I hate flying alone, so the extra 100lbs will be perfect
I think.
>
> It isn't plug and play, for sure. I cursed many things during the process, but
in hindsight, most of that was normal teething issues of doing something different,
effectively for the first time. There's not many KF/Geo examples out there
to research. I broke new ground. I am also very hampered with poor local
talent in things like welding and machining. There just aren't any craftsman and
artists around anymore. I suppose it's fallout of living in a disposable society.
>
> Well, it's been fun, and I'm enjoying the tinkering.
> Bradley
>
> --------
> Beemer
> KF2 (and now an M3!)
> Middle Georgia
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177149#177149
>
>
>
Beemer,,do not feel bad for your self,,you are doing some thing alot of
us only dream of doing.we are all looking for the idea set up of
different engines.and you have a flying example of what you have dreamed
of.and at a cost savings of money..and cheap to fly behind...dont give
up,,,and keep doing what you have been doing..find a cheaper way of
doing things.and doing what we all love to do..is FLY,,,STEVE SHINABERY
N554KF KF2 with the little mighty 582 Thanks Beemer
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: KF2 Bungie connections |
I have brand new ones in a box for my classic 4 Can I also get some
directions... Thanks in advance. Steve Bennett
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 14
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Recently my wife and I applied for life insurance and it was with a company that
is reputable (Met Life) yet not one I would call pilot savy. The sales rep had
to do quite a bit of research in order to come up with answers, however, we
were approved as pilot and passenger after the whole thing was over. I thought
I would put this question out to the Kitfox community as I'm sure there is a
plethera of experience to draw from here, so... Has anyone ever shopped between
a company that "specializes" in pilot insurance and one like I mentioned (not
pilot savy) and found significant differences in policy premiums? ie...is it
worth the time involved to shop?
Thanks in advance
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
KF-IV Building
Message 15
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| Subject: | Picked up new Kitfox 4 today |
Hi all, Well I went and got the Kitfox 4 today that I bought on ebay on Su
nday. Haven't slept very well the last few nights because I didn't know f
or sure what I had bought. I woke up this morning at 5:30 even though I di
dn't have to leave till 8:30. Well I'll sleep good tonight. Looks like ev
ery thing is just fine with the plane so far.
I have to get the wings tomorrow. One thing I would like to mention, is th
at if anyone is thinking of changeing out their 582 to a fourstroke, or the
ir 80 HP Rotax to a 100 HP Rotax, give me a shout. I will eventually be ne
eding an engine, motor mount and cowl for the plane, but I'm not in any big
rush either. I do have a 582 muffler and radiator allready for a Kitfox,
but would rather go in the direction of a 4 stroke. Actually, I half wish
I hadn't sold my 582, mount and cowl for the Avid when I put the Jabiru on
it, I might have put it back on the Avid and used the Jabiru in the Fox.
I have the Avid to fly while I build this plane so when I can't do one, I
can do the other. Thanks for listening, Jim Chuk Avids, and Kitfox 4
Mn
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