---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 05/10/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:35 AM - Re: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... (Michael Logan) 2. 04:36 AM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (Michael Logan) 3. 09:59 AM - hangar, unvented heater (bob noffs) 4. 10:43 AM - Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... (wingnut) 5. 01:51 PM - gps (bob noffs) 6. 02:11 PM - Re: gps (Pete Christensen) 7. 02:39 PM - Re: gps (Sbennett3@aol.com) 8. 02:46 PM - Kitfox Coeur D' Alene owners (debrun26@juno.com) 9. 03:42 PM - finally i got my check ride, BUT. (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?=) 10. 04:16 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (Tom Jones) 11. 04:37 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (kirk hull) 12. 05:02 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (Sbennett3@aol.com) 13. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... (steve shinabery) 14. 06:05 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (RAY Gignac) 15. 06:07 PM - Re: gps (steve shinabery) 16. 07:14 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (Guy Buchanan) 17. 07:46 PM - gps (bob noffs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:44 AM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... Beware of the special low prices, most of the time they don't come with essentials such as the ends of the building, etc. Miracle Truss does that. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gregory Cronin Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:10 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... I'm not sure if building a pole barn using a Steel Building kit is the way to go or not. There are many vendors out there with, I'm sure, different levels of value. Anyone have experience? Greg N42001 KF-IV in refurb N81774 PA-32-301 Saratoga -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... hi all, i built my dakota hawk in a 22x16 shop which is in my30x45 pole barn. i had enough room in my barn to completely assemble the plane and adjust all the controls. i live in n. wis. and heating only the shop was no big deal. completely insulating and heating the barn would have been another story.if you are thinking of using radiant heat from the floor you are definitely not in my income class and if you are thinking of using wood that adds a lot more difficulty to the project. i have a wall mounted non vented 15,000 btu gas heater that always keeps the shop 55 deg when i am not using it. when i work i use a small vented wall mounted forced air furnace. although i have tested the nonvented unit for CO emissions and they are nil, it does give off a little odor. i like using it to keep the temp at 55 deg. as it is 100% efficient. i live in one of the colder parts of the country and fuel costs are a consideration to me. in the next year i will be moving the plane to my hangar[ if i hadnt broken my arm and 2 ribs last sunday it would have been this november!] and for sure i will put a very small heated shop in a corner of my hangar. i see so many times a pilot has to make several trips to repair something that could have been done on the spot. shop can be small, 10x12, enough for a bench and tools. probably a couple electric space heaters will be enough. and a picture window so i can sit in my chair and drink a beer while i gawk at my plane when nothing needs tweaking! just my thoughts, bob noffs ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 8:41 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... > > I built a Series 5, and am about halfway through a Zenith CH801 (4 seat) > both of which I built in my 12x26 single car garage. So a huge amount > of space isn't that necessary. Would sure be nice though :) > > Jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181217#181217 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/winter_189.jpg > > > Checked by AVG. 5:24 PM Checked by AVG. 5:24 PM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:37 AM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip Put the wingtip on without clipping the wings, you don't lose any gross weight and the difference in speed is not very much. Mike Logan Series 5 -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yodaone Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 11:09 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip Have a Classic Kitfox IV 1050lb 100% completed. Thinking of clipping the wing and installing a Speedster wing tip. Does anyone have a diagram of the Speedster wing measurements? Also in the process of installing a radiator scoop for the Rotax 912ul. Kitfox has the tips for $170 each, plus $350 for hardware. -------- 1991 Kitfox IV 1050LB Rotax 912UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182167#182167 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:21 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: Kitfox-List: hangar, unvented heater good question dwight. i do monitor the humidity and it does get higher. i have a few small leaks so that my vented heater drafts fresh air into the room from just the vented heater's pilot. the humidity also gets pulled back down whenever i work because the vented heater is operating. as you know a room heated with forced air will get dryer than dust and i live in n. wis where the temp usually below zero and i am building a wooden airplane. i have heard of warping that occurs in the summer to plywood panels glued in the winter with no humidity. i have not had any gluing problems. so there is more humidity but i watch it and can manipulate it and it seems to be a satisfactory environment. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:49 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... From: "wingnut" Here's mine. My plane has to share the building with various tractor implements and a few hay bales. It's just a regular garage style building with an open face. A went to a local builder that specialized in garage buildings and he built this to spec for $10k. That included a bit of grading and gutters. Now I need to figure out a door to keep the ducks out :-). -------- Luis Rodriguez Model IV 1200 Rotax 912UL Flying Weekly Laurens, SC (34A) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182380#182380 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_14372m_683.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:01 PM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: Kitfox-List: gps hi all, i guess i am finally ready time to buy a gps. i have played with them in the woods since 1990 and i have spent a lot of time comparing and looking. for the past 3 yrs. i have been watching the lowrance 2000 and it will do buckets more than i want for vfr. the black and white #1000 has the same info but a comparison in the bright sun makes the choice easy. the display is pretty good size, one of its strongest selling points to me. anyway,,,,,,,,,,, i check on it occasionally and have seen the price climb to $799 last summer. still no doubt i would buy it. my latest price checking turns up the cheapest vendor at $589 and no shipping charges! i even called the vendor to find out lowrances strategy to compete is to lower the price rather than raise the technology. i am just giving a heads up because this color, moving map gps is such a deal at under $600 for my vfr needs. check one out! bob noffs ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:38 PM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gps I bought a GARMIN GPSMap 195 on Barnstormers for $150. That's all I need. Pete PS. But I'm cheap ----- Original Message ----- From: bob noffs To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: gps hi all, i guess i am finally ready time to buy a gps. i have played with them in the woods since 1990 and i have spent a lot of time comparing and looking. for the past 3 yrs. i have been watching the lowrance 2000 and it will do buckets more than i want for vfr. the black and white #1000 has the same info but a comparison in the bright sun makes the choice easy. the display is pretty good size, one of its strongest selling points to me. anyway,,,,,,,,,,, i check on it occasionally and have seen the price climb to $799 last summer. still no doubt i would buy it. my latest price checking turns up the cheapest vendor at $589 and no shipping charges! i even called the vendor to find out lowrances strategy to compete is to lower the price rather than raise the technology. i am just giving a heads up because this color, moving map gps is such a deal at under $600 for my vfr needs. check one out! bob noffs ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:22 PM PST US From: Sbennett3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gps I bought a panel mount and a Garmin 396 with onboard weather so I can stay vfr... I flew into a thunderstorm back in my ultralight days and swore then that if they ever came out with affordable onboard weather I was gonna get it. Steve Bennett **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:46:31 PM PST US From: "debrun26@juno.com" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Coeur D' Alene owners Are there any Kitfox members that live in Coeur D' Alene, Idaho that wou ld be able to put my wife, son And I up for the night of May 24th (Memor ial weekend). We are coming from Alaska for my wife to run the marathon in Cueur D' Alene and just checked for lodging, not realizing it was me morial weekend, and found everyone already booked. Please contact me o ff line~ Thanks much, Layne Cropper Anchorage, Ak S5 EA81 907- 569-2767 _____________________________________________________________ Let great B to B marketing solutions propel your brand to new heights! C lick now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2111/fc/Ioyw6iigEPMLKTwEsTtUn6qUyjoj 7FSOqZ6G0lvQptw8SKT7ABMBKT/?count=1234567890 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:40 PM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?= Subject: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4=94 above ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again. Tried with reduced tire pressure but could not see that that helped any. My instructor (who have over 30 different aircraft in his log book) sad that this aircraft is the most challenging aircraft he has been landing. (not a good thing to hear when you are a rookie in a Kitfox IV). He was also watching me from ground today, and he wonder why this thing bounces2-3feet into the air when the landing is nearly perfect, (stalled out 3-4=94 above ground, control stick full aft). I have full 6 turns on the bungees? I have about 11 hrs in this aircraft and aprox 65 landings, and only flying from soft field. ( I don=92t dear landing this aircraft on hard runways yet). Have the standard big wheels (20/7-8,?) and started on about 8psi, and reduced some today. What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much before it is =93dead=94). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings. Have my hands full landing this thing. But on the positive side, this aircraft and engine works perfect. Cruises on 100mph and 2850rpm. And above 110mph on 3000rpm. Full throttle, and the ASI is out of numbers. (have the classic IV ASI, and I will take a Pitot/static check to check the tolerance on the ASI). Geir Olav =D8ien LN-YGR Kitfox IV (speedster ving) Jabiru 2200. http://tinyurl.com/6d245z ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:24 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. From: "Tom Jones" Geir, if I do not have the tail low enough when I three point my Classic 4 it bounces like you do. I think it bounces because the mains hit first, then the tail drops which increases the angle of attack and it starts flying again. I can make good three point full stall landings with 20 pounds in the baggage sack. If the CG is near the foreword limit I need to sneak in a little burst of power just before touch down to slow the decent rate and keep the tail from dropping if the main wheels hit first. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182408#182408 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:53 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. But some weight in the cargo sack and maybe a little throttle just before landing to get the tail down. Also I don=92t use any flaps on landing and still come in between 50 and 55. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Geir Olav =D8ien Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 5:40 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4=94 above ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again. Tried with reduced tire pressure but could not see that that helped any. My instructor (who have over 30 different aircraft in his log book) sad that this aircraft is the most challenging aircraft he has been landing. (not a good thing to hear when you are a rookie in a Kitfox IV). He was also watching me from ground today, and he wonder why this thing bounces2-3feet into the air when the landing is nearly perfect, (stalled out 3-4=94 above ground, control stick full aft). I have full 6 turns on the bungees? I have about 11 hrs in this aircraft and aprox 65 landings, and only flying from soft field. ( I don=92t dear landing this aircraft on hard runways yet). Have the standard big wheels (20/7-8,?) and started on about 8psi, and reduced some today. What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much before it is =93dead=94). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings. Have my hands full landing this thing. But on the positive side, this aircraft and engine works perfect. Cruises on 100mph and 2850rpm. And above 110mph on 3000rpm. Full throttle, and the ASI is out of numbers. (have the classic IV ASI, and I will take a Pitot/static check to check the tolerance on the ASI). Geir Olav =D8ien LN-YGR Kitfox IV (speedster ving) Jabiru 2200. http://tinyurl.com/6d245z ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:33 PM PST US From: Sbennett3@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. Geir, My opinion is that my kitfox is easier to 3 point with 2 people in it. When landing solo, try using less flaps. Mine bounces down the runway when I use flaps. Also, try not having stick full back as it might make the airplane want to get airborne again. I have 125 hrs in my fox now and 9 out of 10 landings are wheel landings. More control in ground effect. Good luck and just keep practicing... You'll get it right. Steve Bennett **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:35 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hanger / workshop photo's... wingnut wrote: > > Here's mine. My plane has to share the building with various tractor implements and a few hay bales. It's just a regular garage style building with an open face. A went to a local builder that specialized in garage buildings and he built this to spec for $10k. That included a bit of grading and gutters. Now I need to figure out a door to keep the ducks out :-). > > -------- > Luis Rodriguez > Model IV 1200 > Rotax 912UL > Flying Weekly > Laurens, SC (34A) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182380#182380 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_14372m_683.jpg > > > Nice hanger,and what is nice about it is..Is that you can keep it at home..I wish that i had the room,as you do and a landing strip as you do,,BUT I live in town :-\ So.I have to do what I have to do,,so I can fly..STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:05 PM PST US From: RAY Gignac Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. I do not use the flaps, I do mostly wheel landings! in your case, set up f or your 3pt landing and let the tail wheel touch first the rest will follow .. Ray From: geir_olav@c2i.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: f inally i got my check ride, BUT.Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 00:39:42 +0200 I got my check ride in my Kitfox IV (speedster!)yesterday. BUT I need some tip on landing this thing. When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4=94 abov e ground, I easily bounces 2 feet into the air again. Tried with reduced ti re pressure but could not see that that helped any. My instructor (who have over 30 different aircraft in his log book) sad that this aircraft is the most challenging aircraft he has been landing. (not a good thing to hear wh en you are a rookie in a Kitfox IV). He was also watching me from ground today, and he wonder why this thing bou nces2-3feet into the air when the landing is nearly perfect, (stalled out 3-4=94 above ground, control stick full aft). I have full 6 turns on the bu ngees? I have about 11 hrs in this aircraft and aprox 65 landings, and only flying from soft field. ( I don=92t dear landing this aircraft on hard runways ye t). Have the standard big wheels (20/7-8,?) and started on about 8psi, and redu ced some today. What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much before i t is =93dead=94). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings. Have my hands full landing this thing. But on the positive side, this aircr aft and engine works perfect. Cruises on 100mph and 2850rpm. And above 110m ph on 3000rpm. Full throttle, and the ASI is out of numbers. (have the clas sic IV ASI, and I will take a Pitot/static check to check the tolerance on the ASI). Geir Olav =D8ien LN-YGR Kitfox IV (speedster ving) Jabiru 2200. http://tinyurl.com/6d245z _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh _mobile_052008 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:21 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: gps bob noffs wrote: > hi all, > i guess i am finally ready time to buy a gps. i have played with them > in the woods since 1990 and i have spent a lot of time comparing and > looking. for the past 3 yrs. i have been watching the lowrance 2000 > and it will do buckets more than i want for vfr. the black and white > #1000 has the same info but a comparison in the bright sun makes the > choice easy. the display is pretty good size, one of its strongest > selling points to me. > anyway,,,,,,,,,,, i check on it occasionally and have seen the price > climb to $799 last summer. still no doubt i would buy it. my latest > price checking turns up the cheapest vendor at $589 and no shipping > charges! i even called the vendor to find out lowrances strategy to > compete is to lower the price rather than raise the technology. i am > just giving a heads up because this color, moving map gps is such a > deal at under $600 for my vfr needs. check one out! > bob noffs > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Checked by AVG. > Garmin 296 is the best.,,the Airmap GPS,,is too big takes alot of space up,,and hard to hold while U fly..GARMIN 296 for $1195.00...may be a little more.but a better GPS for the money...STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2... ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:20 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: finally i got my check ride, BUT. At 03:39 PM 5/10/2008, you wrote: >When doing a 3 pointer, and stalls out 4" above ground, I easily >bounces 2 feet into the air again. If you're really 4" above ground, then the usual culprit is that the mains are hitting first. I nearly always get a good bounce out of them on a 3-pointer unless I grease, (and I mean grease,) the mains on, (which then makes it a low speed, high alpha, wheel landing.) >What approach speed are you flying on ?(on 55mph if floats to much >before it is "dead"). Have only been using about 10deg flap on all my landings. I approach at any speed, but try to enter ground effect going no faster than 50. Otherwise I float to tomorrow. If you're going to use flaps, (I rarely do,) you might reduce your landing speed accordingly. (Reduce it per the reduction in stall speed.) Full flaps on my plane reduces stall about 5mph, so I reduce my ground effect speed to 45, otherwise the float thing again. I rarely use flaps because I do wheel landings for short field. I only do three pointers occasionally to keep my hand in. (However, when learning I recommend you do 3-pointers, they're safer. Just don't expect to land very short.) Really, I wouldn't worry about the bounces. Obviously you're responding correctly to them because you haven't crashed, so just keep practicing. After about 1000 landings you'll be able to get one in ten that makes you happy. ;-) (The best Kitfox landing I ever made was my first. It's been down-hill from there.) Sometimes I think the Kitfox personifies the cliche "A good landing is one in which you can use the airplane again!" Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:26 PM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: Kitfox-List: gps steve, picture the airmap 2000 as a flush panel mount. i have seen the modification and it is slick. nothing to hold, no exposed wires. everyone has their favorites, i just wanted to give a heads up to anyone interested. bob noffs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.