Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - ENGINE MOUNT QUESTION? (RAY Gignac)
2. 04:50 AM - Re: BRS Mounting (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 05:01 AM - Re: Gap Seals (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 07:40 AM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (kitfoxmike)
5. 09:15 AM - Re: Gap Seals (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
6. 09:28 AM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (crazyivan)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: Gap Seals (Marco Menezes)
8. 10:51 AM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (kitfoxmike)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (Michel Verheughe)
10. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Geir_Olav_=D8ien?=)
11. 02:53 PM - Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (malpass)
12. 06:30 PM - Re: Newbie with a prop ? (nick4853)
13. 07:51 PM - Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip (yodaone)
14. 07:55 PM - Wing Stands (Harold McConnell)
15. 11:33 PM - Re: Cabin Heat (Guy Buchanan)
16. 11:33 PM - Re: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | ENGINE MOUNT QUESTION? |
Hello Everyone,
Recently I had to remove my 912uls to change the Sprag Clutch! I remove
d the upper and lower bracket arms to inspect for cracks! can anyone tell
me what they should be re-torqued to? these are the engine mount bracket ar
ms that bolt to the sides of the engine block.
Thanks
Ray
_________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Mounting |
Bryan,
I also have some info on mounting the BRS canister. My 4 has a canister
behind the turtle deck. It faces downward (exiting the bottom of the aircraft)
and the "t" handle is above my left shoulder. I could shoot some pictures and/or
send you a copy of the instructions. It will take a little digging. Just let
me know.
Dick Maddux
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
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I just sealed my rudder gap by buying the foam from Debbie at Kitfox. It was
$10 for two pieces that were already formed for that purpose. I glued them to
the back of the vertical stab (epoxy) then covered with 6 inch Stitts tape
from Spruce. I repainted and you almost can't tell it was done. I now have about
a 1/4" gap vs about 2 ".
When I bought the airplane it had clear gap seal tape on the elevator
(looked like packing tape) but it looked bad so I took it off. I even tried
leading edge tape but that looked worse. I cannot tell the difference with or
without the tape.The major thing that did help was adding an elevator trim tab.I
can now get the tail down into proper position for landing (if 3 pointing)
Hope this helps
Dick Maddux
Fox 4, Pensacola,Fl
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
try not pulling the stick all the way back, don't put any flaps on, slow to about
50 on final. Now, get the picture on the ground for sitting on all three and
try to memorize this pic. when you come in and are just off the runway pull
nose up to get this pic or attitude. now adjust your rpm to hold this and have
a slight desent let the plane do the rest, before you know it you will be
on the ground, once landed just pull the throttle. This brings up another question,
what is your idle speed, I notice you have the jab engine so what is normal
idle for this thing. does the airplane want to move on the ground with brakes
off and at idle, if so you might be a little high. On my Rotax 912 I have
the idle set for about 300, the engine will almost quit at that rpm, I just
raise the rpm where I want it, usually about 1800, what this does is allow me
to slow the airplane down on final, really cool, than I have to adjust the idle
as I land, may be too much for a new-bee, but I'm not, so that's what I like.
Big thing is slow your decent to near nothing as you land and it will stop the
bounce. Also check your air pressure, put it to the minimums. Now if you are
close to gross weight than things change a bunch, you do the same thing but
the decent will be more, so you will need to be on the throttle to keep the decent
less, also the nose will want to come up more, so watch for that.
Tip, is you can't or are having troubles finding that perfect picture while flying
for attitude, install a bubble like for a camper to level and put level with
the airplane sitting on the ground, stick it on your door front, that way you
can glance over at it to get your proper nose up when landing.
You can also go up to altitude and practice landing 3000 ft off the ground, slow
to landing speed and try to get in a 3point configuration and slow it down and
keep decent to a minimum, should get you ready to land on the ground this way.
I have fun doing this type of thing off the runway, I'll run a foot off
at 42mph indicated right down the entire runway, real fun. At the end I flatted
out and put the throttle to it, when the airspeed is high enough I fly away.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183117#183117
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For the elevator seal I used clear scotch shelf film from the aviation (kitchenware)
section at Walmart. 2 one inch width pieces over lapped sticky to sticky
by about 1/2" allowed 1/2" of sticky to creat an "S" seal similar to early radio
control hinge arrangement.
John Kerr
Classic IV with Speedster mods.
912ul 775 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Catz631@aol.com
I just sealed my rudder gap by buying the foam from Debbie at Kitfox. It was $10
for two pieces that were already formed for that purpose. I glued them to the
back of the vertical stab (epoxy) then covered with 6 inch Stitts tape from
Spruce. I repainted and you almost can't tell it was done. I now have about a
1/4" gap vs about 2 ".
When I bought the airplane it had clear gap seal tape on the elevator (looked
like packing tape) but it looked bad so I took it off. I even tried leading
edge tape but that looked worse. I cannot tell the difference with or without
the tape.The major thing that did help was adding an elevator trim tab.I can
now get the tail down into proper position for landing (if 3 pointing)
Hope this helps
Dick Maddux
Fox 4, Pensacola,Fl
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL
Food.
<html><body>
<DIV>For the elevator seal I used clear scotch shelf film from the aviation (kitchenware)
section at Walmart. 2 one inch width pieces over lapped sticky to sticky
by about 1/2" allowed 1/2" of sticky to creat an "S" seal similar to early
radio control hinge arrangement.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>Classic IV with Speedster mods.</DIV>
<DIV>912ul 775 hours</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Catz631@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV>I just sealed my rudder gap by buying the foam from Debbie at Kitfox. It was
$10 for two pieces that were already formed for that purpose. I glued them
to the back of the vertical stab (epoxy) then covered with 6 inch Stitts tape
from Spruce. I repainted and you almost can't tell it was done. I now
have about a 1/4" gap vs about 2 ". </DIV>
<DIV> When I bought the airplane it had clear gap seal tape on
the elevator (looked like packing tape) but it looked bad so I took it
off. I even tried leading edge tape but that looked worse. I cannot tell
the difference with or without the tape.The major thing that did help was adding
an elevator trim tab.I can now get the tail down into proper position for
landing (if 3 pointing)</DIV>
<DIV> Hope this helps</DIV>
<DIV>
Dick Maddux</DIV>
<DIV>
Fox 4, Pensacola,Fl</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
I have a theory.
My Speedster's tail stalls a little before the wing so the wing never gets into
a full stall condition in flight.
I think that when you are stalling at 4" above the ground, it's only your tail
that is stalling. As your tail stalls the nose of the plane goes down and you
are decreasing your AOA to a flying condition again, right at the same moment
that your tires touch the ground. Your wings are creating lift again and therefore
the bounce.
Some fixes:
Adjust your technique: Don't try to fully stall for the 3-point landing. Kind
of fly it onto a 3-point landing at very low speeds.
Like some previous posts mentioned, seal your elevator hinge gap.
Get a set of vortex generators and place them on the bottom of the horizontal stabilizer
a few inches in front of the hinge line. This will keep the tail from
stalling before the wing.
Again, just a theory.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183144#183144
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I used a similar system for elevator and rudder gap seals. Used a different product
from that same aviation supplier: Sno-King clear window sealing tape, 2"
wide overlapped 1." It's designed for outdoor applications. Works great, holds
up and it's clear therefore not too ugly.
kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote: For the elevator seal I used clear scotch shelf
film from the aviation (kitchenware) section at Walmart. 2 one inch width pieces
over lapped sticky to sticky by about 1/2" allowed 1/2" of sticky to creat
an "S" seal similar to early radio control hinge arrangement.
John Kerr
Classic IV with Speedster mods.
912ul 775 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Catz631@aol.com
I just sealed my rudder gap by buying the foam from Debbie at Kitfox. It was
$10 for two pieces that were already formed for that purpose. I glued them to
the back of the vertical stab (epoxy) then covered with 6 inch Stitts tape from
Spruce. I repainted and you almost can't tell it was done. I now have about
a 1/4" gap vs about 2 ".
When I bought the airplane it had clear gap seal tape on the elevator (looked
like packing tape) but it looked bad so I took it off. I even tried leading
edge tape but that looked worse. I cannot tell the difference with or without
the tape.The major thing that did help was adding an elevator trim tab.I can
now get the tail down into proper position for landing (if 3 pointing)
Hope this helps
Dick Maddux
Fox 4, Pensacola,Fl
---------------------------------
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL
Food.
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
I just finished with my daily flight and I actually took notice of what happens
when I land. First off, and I think this is important, I'm going to post some
stats on my airplane.
Kitfox model 4 1200 speedster.
Rotax 912 80horse
Ivo prop inflight adjust.
dry weight is 650
300left 302right
48tail
I have vg's on the wing with 10%back, none on the horizontal
I have gap seals on the elevator, but they have blown out on about 30% of such.
I weigh in at a whopping 180lbs. If I have a passenger that's another 160.
I have two 16gal tanks in the wings.
I have a cruise speed of 103kts. Gps.
Now when I land I normally do a short in approach, generally about a 1000ft out
from the approach end of the runway, I will do 100mph indicated on the down wind,
when In base I will be doing about 90mph, then I turn to final with a 60degree
bank about 100ft off, as I'm half way in the turn I will put in full right
rudder and slice it down to about 20 off the ground at which time I will be
around 80mph, I keep in right rudder and level off and let up on the aileron
and use only that needed to keep centerline, I will keep this until about 60 than
I will straighten the aircraft
and land it.
If I do a straight in I will establish 70mph for the final, seems to work best
for me, any slower and the nose comes up to much and gets too boring, No flaps
ever, I like to have 60 over the approach end of the runway, flat prop, and
power all the way back, (my rpm for full back is 300rpm, real slow) As I run
over the approach end I will be about 10ft off, I start to pull back on the stick
to get a slight nose high, after this I use throttle only, as I slow so does
the engine, so I increase slightly. When I touch down I'm always at 40mph,
45 will make me bounce slightly, not noticeably by anybody watching, but I know
it.
I had to go out and fly some touches to know what my speeds are because to be frank,
I don't look at my indicator, I just fly in. I may glance at the airspeed
to make sure I'm close to 70 at about 3000ft out.
When I do a wheel landing I do the same speeds except the touch down is at 55mph
indicated, makes a real nice landing. Than I will pull power off and slowly
pull back on the stick to lower the rear wheel.
Remember your ailerons will start working at 25mph. with no flaps those buggers
work real good also
Now just a little brag here, I put on new tires last year, I have over 6000 landings
on them. I never squeak the tires, and very seldom bounce. I put in 310hrs.
408 flights for 2007. I do an average of 30 t &G a flight. I can do a
touch and go every minute.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183159#183159
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
> From: crazyivan [dmivezic@yahoo.com]
> My Speedster's tail stalls a little before the wing so the wing never gets into
a full
> stall condition in flight.
Hum, I never thought of that! It is true that when I try to gently stall at altitude,
I just can't; the stick is all the way against me and I can't increase
the nose-up attitude; I mush down.
Geir, if you're still reading this: I remember that when I landed with my instructor,
he told me so many times not to freeze when landing: keep the stick moving!
If you bounce, push the stick forward, then pull again and try to make a
nice second touch-down. Already at final approach, keep the stick and the pedals
moving; feel how the plane reacts just over stall speed, feel the sluggishness.
And when you flare, do it by several small jolts on the stick: feel the plane
... and feel the Force, young Luke Skywalker! :-)
Seriously, it helps me to eyeball the landing.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
Thanks to all for the postings for my bouncing problem, will take all this
information and practice the first opportunity. Will gap seal my elevators,
and not use the flap when practicing landings (have to fly about 30 min to
another airstrip to practice landings) but this airstrip is long and nice
(soft field). Will come back with more info how everything is going. But I
clearly see the problem with using the flap and elevator authority, and all
I need is practice. Some friends of me did not believe a Kitfox 4 would
cruise on or above 100mph, but what you wrote below here state my numbers.
Thanks again
Geir Olav
LN-YGR
Kitfox IV (speedster ving)
Jabiru 2200.
http://tinyurl.com/6d245z
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av kitfoxmike
Sendt: 14. mai 2008 19:49
Til: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Emne: Kitfox-List: Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT.
I just finished with my daily flight and I actually took notice of what
happens when I land. First off, and I think this is important, I'm going to
post some stats on my airplane.
Kitfox model 4 1200 speedster.
Rotax 912 80horse
Ivo prop inflight adjust.
dry weight is 650
300left 302right
48tail
I have vg's on the wing with 10%back, none on the horizontal
I have gap seals on the elevator, but they have blown out on about 30% of
such.
I weigh in at a whopping 180lbs. If I have a passenger that's another 160.
I have two 16gal tanks in the wings.
I have a cruise speed of 103kts. Gps.
Now when I land I normally do a short in approach, generally about a 1000ft
out from the approach end of the runway, I will do 100mph indicated on the
down wind, when In base I will be doing about 90mph, then I turn to final
with a 60degree bank about 100ft off, as I'm half way in the turn I will put
in full right rudder and slice it down to about 20 off the ground at which
time I will be around 80mph, I keep in right rudder and level off and let up
on the aileron and use only that needed to keep centerline, I will keep this
until about 60 than I will straighten the aircraft
and land it.
If I do a straight in I will establish 70mph for the final, seems to work
best for me, any slower and the nose comes up to much and gets too boring,
No flaps ever, I like to have 60 over the approach end of the runway, flat
prop, and power all the way back, (my rpm for full back is 300rpm, real
slow) As I run over the approach end I will be about 10ft off, I start to
pull back on the stick to get a slight nose high, after this I use throttle
only, as I slow so does the engine, so I increase slightly. When I touch
down I'm always at 40mph, 45 will make me bounce slightly, not noticeably by
anybody watching, but I know it.
I had to go out and fly some touches to know what my speeds are because to
be frank, I don't look at my indicator, I just fly in. I may glance at the
airspeed to make sure I'm close to 70 at about 3000ft out.
When I do a wheel landing I do the same speeds except the touch down is at
55mph indicated, makes a real nice landing. Than I will pull power off and
slowly pull back on the stick to lower the rear wheel.
Remember your ailerons will start working at 25mph. with no flaps those
buggers work real good also
Now just a little brag here, I put on new tires last year, I have over 6000
landings on them. I never squeak the tires, and very seldom bounce. I put
in 310hrs. 408 flights for 2007. I do an average of 30 t &G a flight. I
can do a touch and go every minute.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183159#183159
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
My 2 cents worth on landings, and I have 3 instructors that have tried to teach
me. 2 gave up and 1 finally saw me thru the lessons. I think all will agree
with this message:
I have a model III with a 582. All 3 high hour instructors said this was the toughest
plane to take off and land that they had seen.
I had to put in 32 hours on grass before I felt I could advance to hard surface.
It took 36 hours of nothing but take offs and landings to where I could successfully
and repetitively take of and land.
There where several things I learned to successfully master this beast. My humble
recommendations are:
1. Deflate tires to exactly 9 psi (not 10)
2. Always 3 point land the fox at least initially on learning... (the P.O.H. even
recommends this over wheel landings)
3. When learning the landing technique, don't try full crosswind landings where
wind is more than about 8 mph. If it is more than that, don't fly.
4. If your flying with a 2 stroke 582 single (no passengers) keep throttle up to
about 3600 rpm. 2 persons, about 3800
5. Use no flaps
6. Get down to surface about 12" to 24" and slowly round-out and make a slow flair
determined not to let the wheels touch down.
7. Let the plane drop slowly on it's on, with full stick back with the stick touching
your gonads.
8. Do not let go, or ease the stick.
9. Make sure you have memorized the field of reference out the wind screen, such
that the plane is flying perfectly straight ahead !! There is definitely a
technique for this as the off centered view in a fox is deceiving.
I found that I can make a successful 3 pointer every time and not bounce on hard
surface.
I think the reason is the speed is only about 27-28 mph. The plane has full stalled
and cannot fly again, even if there is slight bounce. Slight power allows
a slow mush with a nose up attitude. (where you need to be).
You must hold tight back pressure and do not ease the stick even though there is
a distinctive desire to do it.
All these points are very important. I've tried them all.
When this bird has full stalled, and is straight ahead, landings will be perfect.
This will take extreme concentration such that if someone were able to drive a
hot poker coal up your butt, you wouldn't even feel it!
Try it several times and see what you think.
Some may disagree, but do not try main wheel landings when you are initially learning.
I now have 90 hour on my fox, and my rear end doesnt even pucker up upon landing
anymore. :D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183194#183194
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| Subject: | Re: Newbie with a prop ? |
Thank you everyone that wrote in. My model is EAB and my operating limitations
do require that I contact the FSDO. There seems to be alot of Warp props out
there so I'm hoping the transition won't be too painful. We'll see.
> when you crash
Gary this isn't in the plans Lord willing
Thanks again.
I'll let you know how I make out.
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183221#183221
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| Subject: | Re: Clipping wing and putting on a Speedster wing tip |
The airplane has been completed for over ten years and really haven't done any
thing to it.
I'm in the process of installing wing cuffs, gas cap fairings from Williams Aviation
and a radiator scoop from Kitfox.
Wing tips and wheel pants might be next.
Also just changed bungee cords from HighWing LLC, good quality product.
I have the old Matco WHLB5 brakes which never worked very well on an 8 inch wheel
that was made by kitfox. Brakes where leaking and Matco suggested changing
the O-rings (2-222 O-ring), which solved the leak.
They also suggested changing the brake line to 1/8 inch OD brake line for better
braking. I will try the new 1/8 inch OD, will report if better braking.
Below is from Matco:
It is a matter of brake pressure. The brake is rated at 450 psi. If you are
not getting 450 psi to the caliper, you are not getting the rated torque. The
issue is usually one of pedal geometry. The early KitFox had two issues. The
geometry was low (we recommend at least 2.5 to 1 mechanical advantage). The
second is having the master cylinder connect above the pivot point of the toe
brake. The result of this is that the mechanical advantage gets worse as the
cylinder is stroked. This type of geometry can be made to work as long as the
mechanical advantage starts out higher so that it is still at 2.5 to 1 when
the cylinder is in the loaded position. The early Kitfox, Avid, and Lancairs
all had this type of geometry.
There is a SKIDS Technical Comic on our website that talks about pedal geometry and has links to more detail including a discussion of mechanical advantage with drawings. The comic is at http://www.carttonic.com/files/file_download.php?fi_id=39363
The best way to know for sure is to measure the pressure at the brake with a pressure
gauge. You will likely find that you are not getting more than 300 psi
or so. It is the equivalent of taking off at 60 percent throttle on the engine.
The brake will give more torque above 450 psi but it is less linear above
that value. The nylon lines should be fine as long as they have a 450 psi working
pressure and at least a 1500 psi burst. Since you also have an issue with
the amount of volume used (your pedal geometry worsens with stroke and you
will have less stroke with less volume) you may find that smaller diameter lines
are helpful. We have recently begun using 1/8 inch OD line for our hand master
cylinders as they are low volume systems. It is beneficial for that case.
We have also found it easier to bleed a 1/8 line free of air.
--------
1991 Kitfox IV 1050LB
Rotax 912UL
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183236#183236
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Message 14
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Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for information on wing stands.
I picked up the PVC pipe fittings today to construct my stand. I will report later
on my success (or failure). Looks like a great idea.
Harold
NE North Dakota
Kitfox 3 with 582
Message 15
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At 07:02 PM 5/13/2008, you wrote:
>Kitfoxers, Has anyone tried ducting radiator heat into the cabin via
>scoop and flap mechanism under the cabin belly?
One of the 582 guys did, if I recall. Was it you, Dave?
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: finally i got my check ride, BUT. |
At 02:47 PM 5/14/2008, you wrote:
>9. Make sure you have memorized the field of reference out the wind
>screen, such that the plane is flying perfectly straight ahead
>!! There is definitely a technique for this as the off centered
>view in a fox is deceiving.
I still have my "beginners" stripes on my windshield. 1/8"
blue tape. The horizontal one is the horizon in a 3-point attitude.
The vertical one is a "gunsight" that doubles when I focus at
infinity, giving me a bracket for the centerline. Embarrassing, but
I've gotten over it.
[]
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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