Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (Dan Billingsley)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Planning Trip to High Valley Resort (north Georgia) (Paul Morel)
3. 09:18 AM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (WurlyBird)
4. 09:24 AM - Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" (dave)
5. 09:31 AM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (dave)
6. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (Dan Billingsley)
7. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (Michel Verheughe)
8. 10:39 AM - cooling hose (Jeffrey Dill)
9. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" (Gary Glasgow)
10. 12:24 PM - Re: Off topic - Are you ready for this? (fox5flyer)
11. 01:14 PM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (darinh)
12. 01:25 PM - Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" (dave)
13. 01:43 PM - Re: Planning Trip to High Valley Resort (north Georgia) (wingnut)
14. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (Jim Crowder)
15. 02:53 PM - Re: cooling hose (Guy Buchanan)
16. 03:23 PM - Re: cooling hose (wingnut)
17. 03:39 PM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (dave)
18. 03:55 PM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (fox5flyer)
19. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (steve shinabery)
20. 06:57 PM - Re: cooling hose (dave)
21. 07:53 PM - Re: Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (Cmflyboy12@aol.com)
22. 10:41 PM - Re: Converting to a tail dragger? (WurlyBird)
23. 11:12 PM - Information on EA-81 (WurlyBird)
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
...I have already contacted Kitfox and they say it can't be done. I
believe it can be done and i am just trying to figure out ...
You have already contacted the Mothership and received your answer. Why go any
further to waste time, money and quite possibly your neck?
"Lord, what fools these mortals be."
William Shakespear
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| Subject: | Re: Planning Trip to High Valley Resort (north Georgia) |
Well, I guess this was a bust. Beautiful weather but no planes. Looks like
a planning committee needs to be established.
----- Original Message -----
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:24 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Planning Trip to High Valley Resort (north
Georgia)
>
> How about planning a barbecue? If we can use their grill, I can bring
> some burgers and dogs.. It's only a one hour trip for me so I can take a
> small cooler. Or perhaps it would make more sense to wait and see how many
> people will actually come and then make a trip into town for provisions...
>
> --------
> Luis Rodriguez
> Model IV 1200
> Rotax 912UL
> Flying Weekly
> Laurens, SC (34A)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182945#182945
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
Yes I have already contacted the "mother ship" and gotten AN answer, an answer
which I view through these facts;
1. the company is under management that was not under employ during the time that
the model in question was designed
2. the company does not manufacture the parts to readily do the conversion and
so it makes sense that they would not support the idea since it is changing their
design into a different configuration then was originally in mind
3. I have spoken to a few people who met with the same resistance when wanting
to convert their Model 1, 2, and 3 to tricycle gear, and alas, now have aircraft
that sit in the desired configuration
4. "it can't be done" is an answer I leave to people who are not capable of coming
up with their own ideas, much less doing something new or something that their
is not already an instruction manual for
5. because these are experimental and relatively simple aircraft, it can be done.
It is simply a matter of how much trouble will it be and how much trouble
would it be worth
And so at that I will quote my first post,
Any HELPFUL information would be greatly appreciated.
If you can back a "don't waste your time" statement with reason I would like to
hear it, but simple negativity is not what I am looking for. Thanks though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183668#183668
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| Subject: | Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" |
Gary,
Just look at my videos on youtube http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
I was thinking of trying another set of gears but have not yet. slower turning
prop should give you better climbout but you can only get so much out of a
certain HP. I have played with props, gearing and tuned pipes and at all adds
up .
My videos speak for themselves and the GSC 68 " does work well on 582s and many
others. I have my Seaplane prop on right now (68" wide tip WARP) and it works
equally well.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183669#183669
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
Actually I would like to know why they cannot be converted as well.
Did A vixen come in a tail configuration ?
Many convert taildraggers to tri gear and it seems to work. As a matter of fact
I have a Kf 2 tied down here now and I got in a hour of flying in it this week
and it really is not that bad to fly with the funny looking wheel up front.
It does make some clunking noise from the nose gear suspension but it does work
and it turns sharp on the ground. As far as flying in and out of soft fields
well the elevator had a surprising amount of authority and I can easily keep
the nose gear light and it will get in and out of soft ground but not as well
as my IV with King fox tires . I would not take this to the beach but I think
it could do it without much trouble.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183671#183671
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
James,
Perhaps my statement here was a bit negative, however, if you knew the people
you were dealing with at Kitfox Aircraft, you would know better than to slam
them on a list that they support. Tenacity is admireable and has taken many men
far when told "It can't be done". You might want to clarify with whom you spoke
that the word can't wasn't said to imply ...may not be practical or safe.
We can make gold out of lead, but we don't bother.
Dan B
Mesa, AZ KF-IV, 912S
WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wrote:
Yes I have already contacted the "mother ship" and gotten AN answer, an answer
which I view through these facts;
1. the company is under management that was not under employ during the time that
the model in question was designed
2. the company does not manufacture the parts to readily do the conversion and
so it makes sense that they would not support the idea since it is changing their
design into a different configuration then was originally in mind
3. I have spoken to a few people who met with the same resistance when wanting
to convert their Model 1, 2, and 3 to tricycle gear, and alas, now have aircraft
that sit in the desired configuration
4. "it can't be done" is an answer I leave to people who are not capable of coming
up with their own ideas, much less doing something new or something that their
is not already an instruction manual for
5. because these are experimental and relatively simple aircraft, it can be done.
It is simply a matter of how much trouble will it be and how much trouble would
it be worth
And so at that I will quote my first post,
Any HELPFUL information would be greatly appreciated.
If you can back a "don't waste your time" statement with reason I would like to
hear it, but simple negativity is not what I am looking for. Thanks though.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183668#183668
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
> From: WurlyBird [james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil]
> If you can back a "don't waste your time" statement with reason I would like
to hear
> it, but simple negativity is not what I am looking for. Thanks though.
Fear not, my friend, you will always find people who tell you that you are an idiot,
on this list or at home. My wife, for example ... :-)
I don't want to give you any advice because I don't know much about aircraft; I
didn't even built my model 3 myself.
I think it should be possible to convert any Kitfox into a taildragger. But I don't
know how to. Can the tail support a tailwheel as it is? No idea!
However, I don't think you should consider a free-castoring tailwheel. I know that
some of us have removed the dis-locking system of the Maule tailwheel to have
it always following the rudder. But the opposite would be, in my humble opinion,
quite dangerous. I think you'll need everything you can to keep the plane
straight as you land.
I don't know how you are going to change the main gear so that the CoG falls behind
it but if I was you, I'd try to keep it such as the tail is as light as possible.
Beside that, I can only wish you good luck with your project and remember that
you are always welcome to ask questions on this list. Asking question is never
a proof of stupidity because it is born from a need to learn and that is always
positive.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 8
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I just yanked the heater out of my Model 2 for reliability and weight. On condition
inspection found one associated hose bumping against the muffler and was
lucky that it didn't blow. The only time I have run the heater is in the summer
for added engine cooling.
For the sake of reliability, there would be four less clamps and junctions if I
went straight to the radiator from the engine with the hose if not for the aluminum
pipe. So the question is this: Why does the design include an aluminum
straight pipe heading to the radiator?
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183676#183676
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| Subject: | Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" |
I agree with gearing for a slower turning prop for better climbout, and
know- that a certain point, you will reach an area of diminishing
returns. These birds were originally not designed to be fast ---just
economical fun simple STOL durable aircraft.
Big concern for now, is the bulletin #17 about NOT USING a 3.47 or
.4.0 to 1 ratio box , with side mounting system for engine, PERHAPS
as a Rotax dealer you could inquire in to the reasoning behind this
bulletin from the Rotax head quarters folks ?
do not archive
Gary Glasgow
Kitfox lll
#1165
N4276M
Montana
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
----- Original Message -----
From: dave
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 10:21 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave"
Gary,
Just look at my videos on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
I was thinking of trying another set of gears but have not yet.
slower turning prop should give you better climbout but you can only
get so much out of a certain HP. I have played with props, gearing and
tuned pipes and at all adds up .
My videos speak for themselves and the GSC 68 " does work well on 582s
and many others. I have my Seaplane prop on right now (68" wide tip
WARP) and it works equally well.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183669#183669
--
Checked by AVG.
5/18/2008 9:31 AM
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic - Are you ready for this? |
Good one Marcos. Here's some good river bar landings.
Deke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o3RK-RpJmY&feature=related
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Marco Menezes
To: Matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Off topic - Are you ready for this?
The next thing in experimental aviation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEXxkWXncuo&feature=related
Marco Menezes
Model 2 582 N99KX
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
Whurlybird,
You are right, anything can be done with experimental aircraft. If you can weld
and have the desire to cut the fabric out of these areas, weld additional tubing
and mounting plates and then recover and paint, it can be done.
Just some insight on the Vixen...Skystar designed the series 5 and introduced 3
models, the Vixen, Outback, Safari, and Voyager. I am not completely sure of
the differences between all these except that the Outback, and I believe the
Safari, are taildraggers. By the way, John McBean (current owner of Kitfox) was
an employee of Skystar and has tons of experience with virtually every aspect
of a Kitfox there is...to say the current management doesn't know what they
are talking about is simply a false statement. I agree with Dan in that by saying
"can't" I am sure he meant that it would be much more involved than it is
worth. Having said that, you can do anything with a welder and some metal...Heck,
you could even hang a P&W on the front and have the most exotic Kitfox
in the world.
As far as what it would take, you could look at a later model 5 that has both the
conventional gear attach points and the trike gear attachment points and try
to recreate that setup. I am not sure but you would also be wise to double
check the size of the structural tubing in the cabin and the tail to verify that
it is the same size of the other tailwheel kitfoxes...I would think that if
Skystar designed the Vixen to be only nosewheel, they would have tried to save
weight and use smaller tubing where it was warranted.
My thoughts are that if the airplane where in kit form it may make sense if that
was really the way you wanted to go but to cut off fabric and then re-engineer
for the tailwheel and bring back to flying condition would be a large project...Why
not just look for a Series 5 Outback or Safari?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Painting)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183696#183696
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| Subject: | Re: Ivo in flight adj prop "Dave" |
> PERHAPS as a Rotax dealer you could inquire in to the reasoning behind this bulletin
from the Rotax head quarters folks ?
>
No answer for the reasoning behind this statement. I have never heard of a 582
ripping apart these mounts other than during a prop blade departure which I have
experienced.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183697#183697
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| Subject: | Re: Planning Trip to High Valley Resort (north Georgia) |
Why a bust? My planned flight to the Mid-Atlantic Air Show was OBE so I'm really
looking forward to this now. It's next weekend right?
PMorel wrote:
> Well, I guess this was a bust. Beautiful weather but no planes. Looks like
a planning committee needs to be established.
> ---
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183699#183699
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
He didn't slam anyone. He did give his thinking on the subject and I think
he was pretty well right on. The Kitfox people are good people, but their
advice is conservative as it should be. It does mean that they will probably
not be supporting the change beyond selling available parts.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Billingsley
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:07 AM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Converting to a tail dragger?
James,
Perhaps my statement here was a bit negative, however, if you knew the
people you were dealing with at Kitfox Aircraft, you would know better than
to slam them on a list that they support. Tenacity is admireable and has
taken many men far when told "It can't be done". You might want to clarify
with whom you spoke that the word can't wasn't said to imply ...may not be
practical or safe. We can make gold out of lead, but we don't bother.
Dan B
Mesa, AZ KF-IV, 912S
WurlyBird <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil> wrote:
Yes I have already contacted the "mother ship" and gotten AN answer, an
answer which I view through these facts;
1. the company is under management that was not under employ during the
time that the model in question was designed
2. the company does not manufacture the parts to readily do the
conversion and so it makes sense that they would not support the idea since
it is changing their design into a different configuration then was
originally in mind
3. I have spoken to a few people who met with the same resistance when
wanting to convert their Model 1, 2, and 3 to tricycle gear, and alas, now
have aircraft that sit in the desired configuration
4. "it can't be done" is an answer I leave to people who are not capable
of coming up with their own ideas, much less doing something new or
something that their is not already an instruction manual for
5. because these are experimental and relatively simple aircraft, it can
be done. It is simply a matter of how much trouble will it be and how much
trouble would it be worth
And so at that I will quote my first post,
Any HELPFUL information
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: cooling hose |
At 10:37 AM 5/18/2008, you wrote:
>So the question is this: Why does the design include an aluminum
>straight pipe heading to the radiator?
Jeff,
Normally it would be because the aluminum tube is lighter
than the hose. (It's also a little bit more reliable.) However if the
tube is short enough then the added weight of the extra clamps
overwhelms any weight savings.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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| Subject: | Re: cooling hose |
That idea really appeals to me. I've also considered removing the carb heat system
from my airplane for similar reasons. I've seen a few installations without
carb heat and the clean simplicity of it really appealed to me. Recently, a
small cylindrical spacer that separated the heat shroud around the exhaust pipe
disintegrated from the vibration so I might actually do it now.
> I just yanked the heater out of my Model 2 for reliability and weight. On condition
inspection found one associated hose bumping against the muffler and was
lucky that it didn't blow. The only time I have run the heater is in the summer
for added engine cooling.
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183716#183716
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
> He didn't slam anyone. He did give his thinking on the subject and I think he
was pretty well right on. The Kitfox people are good people, but their advice
is conservative as it should be. It does mean that they will probably not be
supporting the change beyond selling available parts.
I agree, the same issue was brought up recently when someone wanted a Kitfox 2
main gear and Mc Bean said he did not have. I offered to make it and then Mc
Bean came through and offered assistance.
I think Kitfox Aircraft is more into making kits for new planes plus limited parsts
support as best as they can otherwise. I think John has limited resources
as he did not get all the templates etc in the purchase. They are plenty of
sources available for most parts otherwise.
For example Cessna never offered a 182 with a float kit but many are converted
now and make a great float pane. Where there is a will there is a way.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183722#183722
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
See below.
>
> I am considering buying a partially complete Kitfox V Vixen and I am
trying to determine what it would take to convert it to a tail dragger.
I have already contacted Kitfox and they say it can't be done. I
believe it can be done and i am just trying to figure out how much
trouble it would be. It is a tricycle based on a tail dragger design,
so what's a little reverse engineering?
snip...
It can probably be done, but you'll need to do a lot of welding to put
in new hard points for the main gear. Lots of engineering and welding
work. It has to be quality stuff too. The tail would probably need to
be beefed up also. Lots more work, including running cable bushing
standoffs and cable so you can steer it. Like someone else said, might
be best to just pick up a S5 tail dragger if that's what you want, then
sell yours.
John McB was probably just trying to save you a lot of work and expense.
Then again, if that's what you want to do, go for it and keep us in the
loop. Lots of help here.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5 Outback/Subaru/CAP 370+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
dave wrote:
>
>
>
>> He didn't slam anyone. He did give his thinking on the subject and I think he
was pretty well right on. The Kitfox people are good people, but their advice
is conservative as it should be. It does mean that they will probably not be
supporting the change beyond selling available parts.
>>
>
>
> I agree, the same issue was brought up recently when someone wanted a Kitfox
2 main gear and Mc Bean said he did not have. I offered to make it and then Mc
Bean came through and offered assistance.
> I think Kitfox Aircraft is more into making kits for new planes plus limited
parsts support as best as they can otherwise. I think John has limited resources
as he did not get all the templates etc in the purchase. They are plenty of
sources available for most parts otherwise.
>
> For example Cessna never offered a 182 with a float kit but many are converted
now and make a great float pane. Where there is a will there is a way.
>
>
> Dave
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
> http://www.cfisher.com/
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183722#183722
>
>
>
Very good thinking DAVE,,,STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2
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| Subject: | Re: cooling hose |
Alum pipe will also dissipate the heat more than rubber hose.
works great for me
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=183750#183750
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
hey I have a nice ch2 longwing loaded up w/ 134 hrs on it for sale on
barnstormers 12500 I need to make hanger space for a 108-3 stinson station wagon
4
place
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to a tail dragger? |
I suppose for my first thread on this forum I should have worded my ideas a lot
more carefully. I did not have the intention of slamming anyone, nor do I think
it should have come across as such. From what correspondence I have had with
the McBeans they seem to be great people. However, and this is completely
fine, they seem to be a lot more forthcoming with information about kits and
parts that they have then straight information about how to make a Franken-plane.
I can understand that, they are running a business and they have absolutely
nothing to gain from me wanting to modify one of their products. Yes, ultimately
it would be best to just purchase exactly what I want in a kit right off
the shelf, however dual military families don't readily have $30,000 and a few
thousand hours to kill building from the ground up, so we are looking at partially
complete kits. And so I am here seeking advice and information. And
so far a few real good questions have been posed that raise more questions;
so does anyone know the diameter of the tubing used in a Vixen vs. any of their
tail draggers? From studying pictures the overall construction looks almost
identical, the major difference being the curve in the bottom of the fuselage.
I am unfamiliar with exactly how tail wheel gear can be configured. I know there
is steering assist but the wheel is free to caster about with some sort of
freedom. So can this be fixed forward so the plane tracks relatively straight
until a rudder input frees it from the "assistance"?
does anyone have pictures or drawings of any of the tail dragging models fuse,
specifically the gear mounting area?
does anybody have a quantifiable answer as to how much reinforcement is needed
at the gear attach points?
Again to kind of reinforce where I am coming from, my wife and I are looking to
buy a Kitfox and came across a pretty good deal on a Vixen, we are still in the
"thinking about it" stage which is why I am here. We definitely want to preserve
the bush plane flying aspect of the kit and so insist on tail wheel. Trust
me, if I could find a comparable tail dragging kit for a similar amount there
would be no questions. Since currently this is the best thing before us
I have to consider the effort to convert it. I am just trying to gather enough
information so when my wife and I talk about it I can say "to convert it will
take approximately $xx.xx and so many hundred hours." So lets keep the good
flow of information and ideas coming and lets not continue with the bickering.
I am trying to make friends here, not enemies.
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| Subject: | Information on EA-81 |
My wife and I are searching for a plane and we keep coming across planes with EA-81s
and I can't find much about them. I like the 4 stroke reliability and the
price is WORLDS better then a Rotax 912. How does it compare as far as reliability,
overhaul cost, life expectancy? Any information or first hand experience
would be greatly appreciated.
--------
Prospective Kitfox buyer
Here for information on airframes and engines
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