---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 06/03/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 AM - Re: BACK IN THE AIR (steve shinabery) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: Ethanol? (Tom Jones) 3. 08:27 AM - Kitfox Crash in Texas (SkySteve) 4. 01:34 PM - Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (n85ae) 5. 01:45 PM - Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (Michael Logan) 6. 01:55 PM - Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (Firm) 7. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? (Andy Fultz) 8. 02:33 PM - Re: BACK IN THE AIR (Lynn Matteson) 9. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (fox5flyer) 10. 03:02 PM - Re: BACK IN THE AIR (Lynn Matteson) 11. 04:06 PM - Re: Ethanol Testing? ? (Tom Jones) 12. 06:28 PM - Kitfox Suber EA 81 (Barrie Hussey) 13. 06:46 PM - Re: Ethanol? (dave) 14. 06:48 PM - Re: STalled (dave) 15. 07:04 PM - Re: Re: STalled (kirk hull) 16. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? (Maurice) 17. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (K&MCozik) 18. 07:43 PM - Re: Ethanol Testing? ? (Tom Jones) 19. 08:37 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 20. 10:38 PM - Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (rcsfca) 21. 11:17 PM - Re: Ethanol? (Michel Verheughe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:51 AM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BACK IN THE AIR steve shinabery wrote: > > Lynn Matteson wrote: >> >> Speaking of Grand Lake, I'm going to fly in there on Wednesday, >> weather willing, and try to hitch a ride down to Eldora Speedway for >> the races there that night. No previous planning, no ticket, no >> renting a car...just get up in the morning and go. What the hell, >> you're only young once, and they can't jail you for trying to do >> something on the spur of the moment. >> >> Lynn >> do not archive >> On Jun 2, 2008, at 12:49 PM, n61kf wrote: >> >>> >>> After a bit more work, and a lot more time than I had estimated, I >>> have my Kitfox- 4-1200, N 61KF back in the air. I purchased her from >>> the Insurance company on a bid about two years ago. It had sustained >>> enough damage to the landing gear and fuselage from a hard landing, >>> for them to total it. I replaced the tube gear with Grove gear, and >>> repaired the fuselage, plus lots of other odds and ends, mostly just >>> to satisfy myself. >>> I had never flown or even ridden in a Kitfox before buying this one. >>> I must say I am very pleased with how it performs. >>> I am looking forward to making it to some gatherings this Summer and >>> Fall. Maybe Steve will get his flyin at Grand Lake Saint Marys >>> rescheduled soon. Im about 80 miles south of there at Red Stewart >>> Airfield, near Waynesville Oh. I have been on the List during the >>> rebuild process, and would like to thank every one for all the >>> helpful info and entertainment! >>> >>> Keith Schneider >>> Kitfox IV-1200 >>> Rotax 912 ul >>> Waynesville Ohio >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> -------- >>> Keith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=185882#185882 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Attachments: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/kf1403_163.jpg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Lynn,if you come down to Lake Field airport Wed for the race we have a > car there that you can use.a crew car.the keys are on the back of the > desk.all you have to do is sign for it..you may want to call first > airport 419-268-2190 and talk to Scott.tell him that you know me..may > be if I am not busey to call my cell 419-305-5587 and I can come to > the airport and meet you there...Eldora Speed Way.is app less than 10 > miles down st rt 127 to a little town of North Star,turn left head > west,you can not miss it..at the airport you may even see Toney's jet > there for the race..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 > > Lynn ,head south on 127..come to North Star,,at the light turn right heading west...may be a few miles..Race Track will be on the south side of road,you will not miss it....STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:29 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? From: "Tom Jones" > We have no gas stations in our area now that > do not have ethanol in ALL of their fuels. Now what? Frank, My plan is to keep testing the fuel before I put it in the airplane. When the alcohol shows up I will not put it in the wing tank on my kitfox. I will put it in the panel tank which is alcohol proof as is the rest of my fuel system. About 9 gallons so my range will be limited. I have another wing tank that came with my kit that I did not install. I will put the alcohol fuel in that tank and let it sit for a couple weeks and see what happens. If it dissolves the tank I will start putting 100LL in the wing tank for longer trips. I guess I better put new fuel placards on the tanks then too. Wow, this is putting some more chances for failure in the system isn't it? > By the reaction of the station owner and the damage to the tank I'm wondering if something is going on here and that maybe this wasn't normal premium auto fuel but a mixture stronger than 10%. Is there a simple way to test the level? Kevin, I use the water line test to check for alcohol but don't know of a way to check for the amount (percentage of alcohol). By the way, I have heard that some people have found that the water level goes down instead of up when they have tested fuel that has alcohol in it due to the alcohol holding some of the water in suspension instead of dropping out with the water. This new fuel is moonshine. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186025#186025 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Crash in Texas From: "SkySteve" I just heard that a Kitfox went down in Seabrook, Texas. The word is it was on a demo flight with a prospective buyer. What I heard was that it was in the pattern doing touch & goes. Anyone else hear about this? Any details? Who was it? -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186040#186040 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:08 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas From: "n85ae" http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5816570.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186089#186089 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:20 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Crash in Texas http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5816570.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:22 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Crash in Texas I just heard that a Kitfox went down in Seabrook, Texas. The word is it was on a demo flight with a prospective buyer. What I heard was that it was in the pattern doing touch & goes. Anyone else hear about this? Any details? Who was it? -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox I-IV 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertable Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186040#186040 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:27 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas From: "Firm" He had that plane up for sale...I believe he was asking only 15,000 for it. Howard Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186092#186092 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:05 PM PST US From: "Andy Fultz" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? Guys, I saw a "recipe" somewhere the other day, that with a few simple calculations, will tell you the percentage of alcohol in the fuel. I believe it was on the EAA website. Don't remember the exact amounts, but a few milileters of water to which a few ounces of gasoline is added and recheck the water level, calculate and xx% alcohol is the result. Andy F. > By the reaction of the station owner and the damage to the tank I'm wondering if something is going on here and that maybe this wasn't normal premium auto fuel but a mixture stronger than 10%. Is there a simple way to test the level? Kevin, I use the water line test to check for alcohol but don't know of a way to check for the amount (percentage of alcohol). By the way, I have heard that some people have found that the water level goes down instead of up when they have tested fuel that has alcohol in it due to the alcohol holding some of the water in suspension instead of dropping out with the water. This new fuel is moonshine. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186025#186025 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:57 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BACK IN THE AIR Thanks for the invite to hook up with you, Steve. I've been there a couple of times, and I figured you got your left and west a bit mixed up on the first post. : ) The first time I drove there, I had been in Oshkosh and I noticed in my Speedway Directory that there was a race there that night and the next, so I left Osh and drove down there. I saw a tiny little sign on a building in North Star pointing to the track. As I got a couple of miles away, I could see the cloud of dust rising from the track and it was like heading for heaven....I love dirt track racing! Looking at the weather, it might not work out for me to leave here tomorrow. Besides, my flight instructor is going to talk at tomorrow's EAA Chapter meeting on airspace and flying cross country, so I might want to take that in instead of the races...damn, torn between two loves, racing and flying. Lynn do not archive On Jun 3, 2008, at 4:58 AM, steve shinabery wrote: >>> >> Lynn,if you come down to Lake Field airport Wed for the race we >> have a car there that you can use.a crew car.the keys are on the >> back of the desk.all you have to do is sign for it..you may want >> to call first airport 419-268-2190 and talk to Scott.tell him >> that you know me..may be if I am not busey to call my cell >> 419-305-5587 and I can come to the airport and meet you >> there...Eldora Speed Way.is app less than 10 miles down st rt 127 >> to a little town of North Star,turn left head west,you can not >> miss it..at the airport you may even see Toney's jet there for the >> race..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 >> >> >> >> >> >> > Lynn ,head south on 127..come to North Star,,at the light turn > right heading west...may be a few miles..Race Track will be on the > south side of road,you will not miss it....STEVE SHINABERY N554KF > KF2 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:27 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas Hmmmm. What a shame to lose two pilots, both in one flight. Hopefully, someone will be able to report to us what happened, if it's ever known. Thanks Jeff. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 375+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas > > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5816570.html > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186089#186089 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:17 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BACK IN THE AIR Thanks for the invite, LeRoy...I'll keep your offer in mind....3/8 semi-banked clay....ever get winged sprint cars down there? Lynn do not archive On Jun 2, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dacha wrote: > > Lynn, > I love your attitude. If you are ever down Wheatland,Mo. way for > the Lucas > Oil track, the diamond of dirt tracks, I will put you up and take > you to the > races. > LeRoy > Kitfox 5 > Not flown enough. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? From: "Tom Jones" Here's a link to the EAA article that tells how to determine the amount of alcohol in fuel. http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/faqs/alcohol_testing.asp#TopOfPage To sum it up. Add nine parts water to one part fuel. The increase in apparant volume of water divided by the volume of fuel used is the amount of alcohol. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186104#186104 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:05 PM PST US From: "Barrie Hussey" Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Suber EA 81 Purchased my first Fox last Oct and was just getting comfortable when an early winter put it in the hanger. Summer's back so time for oil change. I checked it first and noted the small plastic bottle over the end of the breather tube was approx. half full. (3 oz) I emptied it and ck the oil which was down but pleanty to warm it up before draining. After startup (first this year) the oil pressure was holding only 20psi not in the green. A full power run up was not done but when the temp reached 180 it was shut down and moved back in to change the oil. The cowls were off and noticible oil on the rad and sprayed all over from the prop wash. Oil was also noted where I had started up ( 6' sq patch). Again the bottle on the breather was just about full. The NSI manual states in trouble shooting to change the oil if the pressure is low and top up, which I'm going to do, however the bottle on the breather has me puzzled. Seems like putting an umberella over your sundial. If air is alllowed to go both ways and the bottle was over half full it would draw the crap into the tank/engine. So far the oil has been drained ( approx 3 liters)(some sludge in drain tube when first opened) and I'm going to pick up another filter wrench and continue. I'm new at this and would appreciate any advice or link referals so I get this done right. Barrie Hussey (Mira Fox in Nova Scotia) bj.hussey@ns.sympatico.cam ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:43 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? From: "dave" If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks have not fallen apart yet. If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the sky yet nor have the tanks melted. GO FIGURE !!!!!!! Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186127#186127 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:47 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STalled From: "dave" Jared, If the left wing stalled the pilot induced that stall not the flaps . For the record mine go full down 33 degrees and they work awesome for takeoffs. For landing over 20 degree is of no gain and you will lose some aileron control. > How does one know what "full flaps" are on the model IV and where is the > full flap setting? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186128#186128 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:35 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: STalled Another thing that could have caused the left wing to stall is improper washout built into the wing and or it is out of rig -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: STalled Jared, If the left wing stalled the pilot induced that stall not the flaps . For the record mine go full down 33 degrees and they work awesome for takeoffs. For landing over 20 degree is of no gain and you will lose some aileron control. > How does one know what "full flaps" are on the model IV and where is the > full flap setting? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186128#186128 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:29 PM PST US From: "Maurice" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? The article says 9 parts fuel plus one part water, not the other way around. Maurice Fitzgerald Series 7A, 912S, 72" Ivo, building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 4:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? > > Here's a link to the EAA article that tells how to determine the amount of > alcohol in fuel. > http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/faqs/alcohol_testing.asp#TopOfPage > > To sum it up. Add nine parts water to one part fuel. The increase in > apparant volume of water divided by the volume of fuel used is the amount > of alcohol. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186104#186104 > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:09 PM PST US From: K&MCozik Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers. Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all. Kevin C Series 6-7 Rotax 914 Czech floats Laingsburg MI On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' sent: > >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks have not fallen apart yet. >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com > >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the sky yet nor have the tanks melted. > > GO FIGURE !!!!!!! > > >Dave > >-------- >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info >http://www.cfisher.com/ > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:32 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol Testing? ? From: "Tom Jones" > The article says 9 parts fuel plus one part water, not the other way around. > Maurice Fitzgerald I hate it when I do that. I edited to fix it. Thanks Mo, Tom -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186139#186139 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:28 PM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible t hat that is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn> From: kcozik@cablespeed.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> S ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol?> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 -0400 > I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean . They > were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get > them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. > > Like others have said before, this seems to be a v ery isolated case where it > doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of > additives which I'll do sometime thi s week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.> > Just for the record, My hanga r mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I > helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger > since. When I c hecked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all.> > Kevin C> Series 6-7> Rotax 914> Czech floats> Laingsburg MI> > On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' @cfisher.com>> >> >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox > alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in ou r gas for 2 years. My tanks > have not fallen apart yet. > >If and when the y do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com> >> >Kevin had an inciden t and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem > quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of > planes i n my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the > sky yet nor have the tanks melted. > >> > GO FIGURE !!!!!!!> >> >> >Dave> >> >--------> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada> >Flying Videos and Kitfox Inf o> >http://www.cfisher.com/> >> >> >> >> >Read this topic online here:> >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127> >> >> >> >> =========> > > _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Wi ndows Live=99 Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:25 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas From: "rcsfca" The plane was for sale, as noted above. Here's the link to the ad in MyPlane.com: http://www.myplane.com/ad/1072#%20self Rich Cunningham Model IV - 1200 - 912 SF East Bay Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186159#186159 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:36 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? > From: K&MCozik [kcozik@cablespeed.com] > Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. Kevin, for information, I had to change both o-rings on my drains on my model 3 from 1993 and I have never used fuel with ethanol. At the time of the leakage, the tanks had only been used for two-stroke oil-gas mixture. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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